Biker killed on Tilden

I do a lot of driving on Livermore's back roads, and I would like to know why people on bikes are not using the nice bike trails that I see? I would also like to know the reasoning behind riding bikes side by side when the bike lane is so narrow?

This is what happens when common safety sense no longer rules. I am sick & tired of the arrogant 'entitled' attitude that prevails with most bikers and WALKERS !
This mid-morning in a neighborhood parking lot I was trying to line up to get between the lines....which I always have to do, driving a full size car. Meandering thru the turns of the lot was a biker, an illegal with his backpack, holding his cell in his right hand, and with only LEFT hand attempting to make his turn within the lot. I had to avoid him, wait for him to wobble thru his turn and continue, totally UNaware, of the potential consequences. Truly disgusting ! IF there's law against driving with a cell, there certainly should be a law against bikers talking on a cell ! Same for irresponsible, wandering arrogant WALKERS !! They can all stop on a dime, a lot easier than a 3,000 lb car in motion can stop. IF they don't care about their own lives, why should I ? It's a parents job to teach SAFE WALKING & biking ...just as much as save driving. FINE cell bikers too.....like jaywalkers ! All that equipment safety should be part of the citizenship test (of course many haven't bothered to try that test yet). Shouldn't be MY responsibility to protect them from their OWN stupidity and/ or arrogance...depending on situation.

Is there anything in the world that doesn't cause you guys ridiculously inappropriate amounts of outrage?

Joe,
You make a lot of assumptions about bikers, about how they feel, what they think, and what their character is. You base this on what exactly?

Riders/walkers don't care,

How exactly did you know the biker you saw this morning was an illegal? A guy on a bike with a backpack and a phone does not equate to illegal, you sir are making assumptions. Have fun with your generalizations and false outrage.

Seriously find something worth being outraged about and stop wasting your time getting upset about things that don't deserve it.

WELL, huffy, judgemental M. So you think I should find something worth being outraged about, and stop wasting time getting upset about things that don't deserve it...... OK , TWO (2) MINUTES ago on abc channel 7 news, in addition to the Tilden biker being killed, the news reported that right before the news "BIKERS (who had been inadvertently omitted) were being added to the NO CELL TALKING OR TEXTING WHILE DRIVING OR BICYCLING...BILL ! ! ! ! vindicated. sorry you don't think saving lives of sloppy riders to be worthy or important!! I do, and swear at the mentally DISengaged walkers and bikers....daily...for their own future safety.

Did I say that I didn't find their lives to be worth saving? No, nor did I elude to that. I clearly was commenting on the fact that you were making multiple assumptions about the biker in question. However if you were trying to illustrate your compassion, and worry about the lives and well-being of bikers and walkers, I would suggest that next time you do not frame that concern with denigrations and insults directed at those whom you are trying to show concern for.

Yet you didn't even address my question to you. I asked you how you knew the person you mentioned was an illegal.

M.

dare i comment? yup...

if you want to avoid accidents don't drive.

if you're the kind of guy that gets angry at the drop of a hat...consider an anger management class.

may the biker rest in peace.

somebody a few posts up is a HOTHEAD! sad...

could the HOTHEAD be ....don't care? yup!

Web Link Counseling for anger in Pleasanton.

On this particular thread, "M" seems to want to change the dynamic of the discussion. Asking the question itself "is there anything in the world that doesn't cause you guys ridiculously inappropriate amounts of outrage?" suggests that "M" is above it all to get "outraged" thus maybe a bit better??? At least that is how I read it.

Switching the discussion seems to happen a lot on the PW. In this case to "outrage" vs the question if bikers are taking unnecessary risks.

What is more disturbing is to see so many fall for it.

To answer the question: Yes I do think bikers take unnecessary risks. And walkers too. And people who drive cars. Does it make me upset? Yes....I don't want to be responsible hurting anyone and when any of the above take a risk, they put me @ risk for possibility harming them.

And to "M" Yes that does make me feel outrage. Its what I do w/ the outrage that matters. Not that I feel it.

No, I am not trying to position myself as better than anyone, or above becoming outraged. If that is how my comment comes off that was not the intent.I am also not trying to change the topic, or drive it in a particular direction. I was simply making observations about the story/comments. More specifically observations based on the tone of the story/comments, mainly that the story was more about how bikers are the villains in the end, suing people destroying their lives and the like. Essentially saying that the bicyclist is to blame, and going further to say that bicyclists are a menace to innocent drivers. Nowhere was there outrage displayed about a bicyclist having lost his life, just outrage over hypothetical lawsuits brought upon by angry villainous bikers set on destroying the innocent driver who collided with them resulting in disability.

To me that all is quite disturbing, a person has lost their life, and the only thing someone can think to say about it is how mad bikers make them. This is my point.

help is on the way can't believe...

i strongly believe that many posters, male and female, exhibit rage more easily than any other emotion...sad

I stopped cycling around 1982 due to unsafe roads in the Tri-Valley. We would traverse rural roads from Foothill in Pleasanton going north to Walnut Creek along San Ramon Road or even pedal H84 from Livermore to Sunol with only minimal concern no doubt would blow your minds by what you see today.

I am still amazed by the number of cyclists I see today. Brave people, you are...

It's amazing the anger I hear in your posts and the assumptions that are made without a shred of evidence or research.

It's sad that this is what you do to pass your time.
It's a beautiful summer day.. why not get out in it and release your stress.

Life is too short not to enjoy every moment.

As a cyclist and longtime tri-valley rider I understand both perspectives going on regarding this topic. Respectful bikers, just like respectful drivers seem to becoming more the exception than the norm. Whether the cause is militant intent by bikers insisting they have a right, or ignorance of drivers wanting bikers to only use specific bike lane roads, neither perspective is 100% correct. There is no reason for bikers to ride intentionally 2 or 3 wide, yet I see this more and more especially on weekends. As a rider I say, have your casual conversation after your ride at your local coffee shop, and get your workout in while your riding. As a driver I would ask other drivers to excuse the ignorance of those who either don't understand their own arrogance and ride anything but single file. These riders do NOT represent all riders by any stretch, and the availability of such great scenic rides in the greater Northern California area should be enjoyed by all. I must say that my personal experience with drivers while cycling over the last 20 years has been almost always positive, with courteous and safe interaction most of the time. It is a rare occasion to have someone honk, and/or yell obsenities, although it does occur on rare occasion. Bicyclist's, please recognize that cars weigh in at 4,000lb or more, and you including your bike weigh in at less than 200lbs in most instances. You are NOT going to win in any conflict with a motorist......

I live in San Ramon but grew up in Pleasanton off Foothill Road and am so sick of bicyclists thinking they own the road and that cars should accomodate them at all times. I live off of Bollinger Road and if anyone knows the area going up the hill on Bollinger towards Clubsport, there is absolutely NO room for a bicyclist on that road, and there is a sidewalk right next to it that they should use, yet time after time I start driving up that hill only to have to slam on my brakes in order to avoid hitting a bicyclist which then always almost causes a few accidents behind me as more and more people have to then slam on their breaks. Use common sense people, if there is not room for a car and a bicyclist, then bicyclist, find another route!

Some people bike instead of driving their cars...thus saving our environment! Drivers do need to share the road that is the rule. Many drivers are as rude as the bikers. Bikers need to follow the law, yes. Drivers need to follow the law, yes. If you are following the rules of the road and not driving recklessly you shouldn't hit a biker. Just as a biker shouldn't be hit if they are following the rules.

If their isn't room for both a bike and a car, then both need to be cautious. Don't tell people who are saving the environment or improving their health by exercising that they shouldn't! Maybe you drivers need to get out off you bottoms and onto a bike or try walking for a change.

Cyclist can't use the sidewalks in many areas of this town by law. Cyclist are suppose to ride in the roads and follow the rules of the road. Learn the law before writing comments!

If a cyclist wants to share the road and have the same rules apply to them as cars do then they need to be more considerate of the traffic behind them. They all want to ride two or three across and not in a single line. Then when we are driving behind them at half the speed limit they should pull over and let us pass. We do not all want to take our time getting where we want to go. Simple point is that roads were made for cars, go use a bike path. If you do not then be courteous to the real car behind you.

I agree with "M". It is just too dangerous to have bikers trying to share the road with cars. It's bad enough when this happens in the cities where there are bike lanes, but when going to my daughters in Santa Cruz County each week, I take a two lane, winding road, where the bikers think they own the road. It's dangerous. Sometimes I don't even see them until I get around a curve. Cyclists shouldn't be given the same rights as cars for everyone's safety.

I like to pour a box of thumb tacks out as I drive by. Funny as hell when like 10 of them ride through it.

True!,

You claim that "...yet time after time I start driving up that hill only to have to slam on my brakes in order to avoid hitting a bicyclist which then always almost causes a few accidents behind me as more and more people have to then slam on their breaks."

Really?

This would imply that you are causing accidents almost daily. Maybe you should take a defensive driving course...

I agree with every one of you who has said that EVERYONE needs to observe the laws. Cars, cyclists, walkers -- ALL of you. I have ridden all of my life and will continue to do so but never on a narrow windy road, never while talking on a cell phone and never other than single file. It's just stupid to do that. Saveing the environment my butt, it's just stupid, egocentric manipulation of the cars being delayed behind you. Cyclists make targets of themselves when they refuse to stop at red lights and ride double and triple wide in the roads.
You think you are so very special just because you ride a bike? Put that on your headstone for you kids to read after you are killed by a car. On purpose or not, the car will win. And with the way that some cycists deliberately flaunt the laws and back up traffic, it may well be deliberate. Dont't whine to me, that selfish behavior will get you killed some day.

Sorry, I am on the side of drivers, although I love to bike. The number of bikers that don't use bike lanes, even when they are provided, seems to be increasing all the time. Foothill Road is a major biking road on weekends, and not a particularly safe one. It seems most of the bikers could care less if drivers have to drive long distances at the speed of the bikers because there is not enough room to pass because they are riding several across, blocking off the lane to drivers. Also daily I encounter a lone biker riding in the car lane in areas where there IS a bike lane again forcing the cars to follow him/her until oncoming traffic has cleared, which can take a long time at certain times of day.

It is just one more example of inconsideration in our society today, which is rampant!! What happened to the golden rule being something people lived by? I just got off a plane where a mother let her child unhook the tray table, let it fall, then slam it back up, where the mother would again hook it--over and over for approximately 1/2 an hour. The man sitting in the seat in front of them must have had the patience of Job!! Please raise your kids to be considerate of others and realize that we each are a part of a society that works much better when we don't see ourselves at the center of the universe for everyone else to navigate around, but as a cog to fit in with all the others to seamlessly make it all work. Think of someone other than yourself. BE CONSIDERATE OF OTHERS!!! PLEASE!!!

Okay, I've read all the comments but is there anybody out there who actually knows exactly what the law allows and disallows when it comes to biking? I'm not asking what you think or what you have heard because unless it is backed up with the chapter and verse of the city / state law it means little when attempting to understand the problem and arriving at an informed conclusion and solution. I'm sure some of Pleasanton's finest or other authority on this issue can provide us all with exactly what the city / state law says when it comes to biking on our streets and roadways. There are obiviously two distinct sides to this issue however finding a solution can only come from an informed understanding of EXACTLY what the city / state laws provide.

I cannot believe what I am reading, I am shocked and disgusted. What is wrong with you people? A person died!!! Driver or bicyclist should not matter and some of you are only concerned about, that the children saw it……… that is terrible and makes me sad. What makes you think driving a car is the safer and the better thing to do? The number of people who get killed in car accidents is much higher. The way some people drive and think they do not need to pay attention is very scary. It seems to be more important to talk on the phone or text (which is even more dangerous), eat, drink and what not instead of concentrating on the road. It is dangerous to drive a vehicle, that can KILL not only the passengers in it, also all the other creatures/drivers and needs full attention, because you share the road not only with bicyclists! Some of you people seem to get way to aggressive while driving a car which can do a lot of harm; that is far more dangerous to others then riding a bicycle.
The most important safety feature in a car is a fully concentrated and focused driver at all times. All the safety items a car has can only prevent some damage in case of an accident, but the most important part is a responsible driver! Blaming others, bicyclists/pedestrians etc. for your own incompetence is by far to easy. We should be grateful for everyone who is using a method to get from A to B or exercise without harming the environment and is not using fossil fuel. We all know how much damage and lives it costs every day, just to be able to fill up your car with gas and I have more respect for people who are trying to be more conscious about the way they live and get around.
Please, you people out there turn on your brains before you get in a car or judge others. Stop being so paranoid, stop seeing an enemy in anyone who does do things the way you do them and before you write really assaulting stuff about people you have not even talked to.
Let’s get it on and be constructive (instead of aggressive) to prevent accidents, by educating drivers better
and call for more defensive driving car or bicycle. PEACE

The cyclist that you think should ride on trails and not the road is me - a working woman, a mother, someone's daughter, and sister. Trails don't get me to work - the same roads you use to drive to work get ME there too. How 'bout that. If I am out of the bike lane, usually there is a good reason: broken glass (a LOT of that), rocks, thorns, or roadkill will have me "sharing" the lane with you. If you swerve to "show me" that I need to be back in the bike lane you have taught me nothing except to enforce the sterotype that all drivers hate cyclists. I really don't get the anger thing. What is so annoying about a fellow human being on a two-wheeled, open-air, moving vehicle that doesn't happen to have an engine? Where does the rage come from to "show us" that we don't belong on your road? I'm a moving vehicle - you are a moving vehicle. All laws should apply equally as defined for moving vehicles. I will grant you that there are many cyclists that have a chip on their shoulder about motorists, primarily due to so many years of harrassment and bad experiences, but they still do not go out of their way to "show" a motorists how they think it should be - honestly, I haven't met a cyclist yet who thinks like that - even the bitter ones! That seems to be an activity exclusive to motorists against cyclists.

Consideration for fellow human beings on either side of this debate is what is needed. Cyclists are moving vehicles that use the roads - as a driver accept that the road is not yours and yours alone. Cars are moving vehicles that use the roads - as a cyclist accept that the road is not yours and yours alone.

I've had items thrown at me, people yell at me to "get off the road", had people swerve at me, honk at me and laugh as I jump, cut me off as they turn right in front of me (that one always gets me because the driver usually is angry that I was "in their way" - what if I were in a car, would you do that to me?). The point is, there is a need for tolerance and patience on the roads and leave the anger somewhere else. Remember, the cyclist you injure is someone's son, daughter, mother, father, sister or brother - a human, just like you!

honestly, everyone's comments are quite funny. RIP bicyclist.
get out in the sunshine everyone...its a beautiful day. time to go swimming! or biking!

I had a dear friend killed riding his motorcycle to work a few years back. He lived in Mill Valley and worked in Stinson Beach. He had a tendency to be late. He often rode his Suzuki motorcycle fast, I mean really fast, over the "hill" to get to work in time. We wared him over and over again. One night, he swerved into the other lane on a curve and hit a truck head-on coming the other way. The truck was in its proper lane doing nothing wrong. My friend was killed instantly. The truck driver was traumatized. I don't know how to feel about this, but it seems to echo the same problem with the bicyclist ... you can't go into the other guy's lane. Everyone suffers.

False-What a dumb comment to make. How am I the one that is almost causing accidents?? I just told you the bicyclist in the road (when the road is VERY dangerous for a bicyclist and there is a sidewalk available that should be used instead of the road) was the reason that I have to put on the brakes in order to not run into the back of the bike because there is NO room to swerve.

Why is a motor vehicle is required to have many safety features to protect both the driver and passenger in order to use the roads, but bikers are allowed to use it without these features? Seems to me that the goal here is to protect people; so why have a double standard?

Even small, 3-wheel cars still need seatbelts and other safety features. Motorcycles need to have DOT approved tires and DOT approved helmets. This is to keep them safe. They both need insurance as well. Why then can a bicyclist use the road without any of the protections required by the other vehicles? It doesnt make sense.

Bikes have no business on roads where they can be killed or maimed instantly. They can destroy their lives as well as drivers that come into contact with them.... Period. It is a selfish, arrogant "sport" that puts people's lives in danger.

well Mark
Could say the same for joggers and pedestrians at least some of the time in terms of equipment and insurance.
I've spoken out about bikers who hog the road but as both a biker and driver, I've seen alot of knucklehead drivers who have less common sense than a rock. You've seen it too. They look at speed limit signs as advisory and drive right thru crosswalks in front of people trying to cross, walklight or not. I chuckle when I see a Flag on cars that do this. Got to wonder what part of Amerca they love-sure isn't the laws. They can take the joy out going somewhere in something other than a car.
So far as the roads up in the hills - don't pass a bike on the corner for petes sake. Use the simple algebra you learned in school while your slowing down and figure out how much delay it actually adds to your arrival to your destination. I think you'll find it's next to nothing.
We all have a short time on this planet - enjoy when you can and don't go out of your way to make it suck for other's

Ok John. You have the answers, so I have a few more questions:

1) When a car in the opposite lane heading towards me veers into my lane a little, what most people would do is veer a little to the right, taking the space the lane was designed to have to avoid the collision. This is a typical occurance. What if a biker is there?

2) Same situation on the mountain road at a bend. Oncoming car doesnt stay entirely in his lane at the bend. Do I hit him head on or hit the biker?

3) Biker swerves to avoid some glass in the road. His biker-buddy who is on his left swerves as well.. far enough into my lane that I am forced to make a split second decision whether to take the chance and swerve into oncoming traffic, or to hit him. What do you suggest?

Why should anyone have to make these life changing decisions? Because someone needs to get some fresh air and excersise? Because they have rights?? How does that make any sense?

for Mark
I can answer those questions because we both probably know what Mark would say.
1)Veer to the right, hit the biker, know that you made the right choice.
2)See above
3)Stay in your lane, hit the bikers, know that you made the right choice.
As I said before, I ride all the time and have for years. I do not wear headphones, talk on my phone or ride more than single file. Cars that do not obey the rules should be ticketed and so should cyclists. P-town is so filled with the righteously entitled that every weekend is a challenge just to drive anywhere. If a cyclist gets into my space and I am forced to make a split second decision I will take the cyclist out. And I will sleep just fine for the rest of my life because I will know that it was not done on purpose, it was simply the best choice at the time.

I'm still waiting on our local PD to get involved in this process. Here is your opportunity to provide much needed education on this subject. What are the laws dealing with bikes in the flow of traffic?

To "cyclist also":

Sadly your answers are only the beginning of the problems.

- Biker is mortally crushed as his companion bikers look on.
- Children/others in the car witness the human gore and have to carry that with them forever.
- Biker, if not killed, will get a lawyer and who will claim that the driver was negligent and will sew him for millions.
- Insurance will not settle for amount biker/lawyer want so it will end up in court.
- Biker, if not killed will probaly have to leave his job due to the injuries, thus the lawsuit. He is angry and needs someone to blame and to be responsible for this. Hopefully the driver is liable somehow. He has lost his way to make a living so he MUST try to get as much out of driver as possible...
- Driver's name is is the newspapers,internet as a bicyclist killer or crippler. Any google search will report this and he will enjoy explaining what happend at every new job interview as well as to his grandchildren.
- Some friends and family will support the driver, others will pretend they support him, but in fact will harbor an opinion that he was a dangerous driver and is also a killer.
- If biker is killed, driver may become suidical. Similar to soldiers who take lives, they may not be able to get over it. At least solders that get over it take comfort that it happened while defending a country. The driver knows it was a pointless and avoidable death and they wonder why g-d let this happen...

Yeah.. depressing isnt it?

I ask again, why do any of us have to take this unnecessary chance with people's lives? It's completely avoidable because bikes do not belong on roads where there are automobiles.

Sorry, I wrote too much about the plight of the driver. What about the biker...

- If they are killed who will support his family? He probably has 1X salary death benefit, so how will $100K help in raising a family probably with young chikdren.

- Will his surviviors need to move out of theur house into an apartment? Will surviving spouse be able to manage all financial responsibilities on just their income? Probably not. Kids will go to daycare while parent works one or more jobs just to survive.

- Surviving spouse will definately get lawyer to sew driver for everything they can get. Their motivations arent only to punish the driver, but also to support their family financially.

- Children grow up without one of their parents. Desperately sad... This parent can no longer influence their children. Maybe their friends will be the biggest influence on their lives now. Maybe will become early drinkers or drug users partly to fit in, partly to dullen the pain of losing parent.

- If biker not killed but merely crushed into a parapalegic, what would life then be like? Time would initially be divided between getting constant medical care and strategizing with lawyer. Unfortunately he cant take a higher moral ground and not sew he driver because he desparately needs the money for the perpetual care and to make up for the lost salary.

- The spouse may divorce the biker becasue they may consider that the risks the biker took were selfish and didnt take their family's welfare into account. They may figure that the biker ruined his family by taking an unnecessary risk knowing full well how important they were to them.

There's more, but thats all I feel like writing right now.

There's never a happy ending... Biker put in body bag.. Driver released because it wasnt his fault, and life for both families go on their happy ways.

It becomes a living hell for all involved.

And its avoidable...

Funny Mark - none of your situations you described involved hitting the brakes. Do you think speed is an issue here? Do you speed Mark?
I could come up with many hypothetical situations as well but there's really no point, is there? Your mind has already been made up and the discussion, from what I've read, would only become a argument with no direction or end.
Goodbye and good luck to you Mark.

Web Link

Another pointless death...

Hey John.. maybe you can be an expert witness on brakes for that trial...