Other excerpts:

"Teachers Support a Smarter Layoff System
The first step in designing a smarter layoff system is to solicit input from those it will affect most directly: teachers themselves. Last spring, The New Teacher Project did just that by surveying more than 9,000 teachers in two large urban districts about layoff policies.

Teachers in these two districts overwhelmingly rejected quality-blind layoff rules.

Furthermore, the survey found strong support for a quality-based approach to layoffs. When asked what factors should be considered in layoff decisions, teachers tended to favor factors that relate to their effectiveness and performance more than time served in the district.

For example, on average, 60 percent of the teachers who want additional factors considered said classroom management should be part of layoff decisions—making it the most popular choice—compared to 42 percent who said district seniority should be a factor.7 “Instructional performance based upon evaluation rating” was also a popular factor among teachers, a finding that contradicts conventional wisdom (see Figure 2). And many teachers in both districts believe layoff decisions should consider teacher attendance, a factor that research has shown has a significant impact on student performance."

One teacher summed up her frustration with quality-blind layoff policies in this way:
“The layoff [process] that will take place this April will not take into account how well I was evaluated or the intense amount of effort I put into my job. Nor does it consider the level of success the students in my classroom have achieved. It does not take into account the relationships I have built with the students, parents, and staff in my school community. It does, however, seem to believe my job is expendable because I have only taught for three years.”

Again, it's back to the union dominance and control of our education. Unions protect bad teachers....NOT our kids. That's because you and the GOOD teachers allow it ! When YOU want it changed, that's when it will changed !
Those millions and millions of federal $$$ that CA did NOT get last week, were partly because CA has not yet changed the process for firing BAD teachers Right now it is nearly impossible. The 'education union protectionists' cover with the lie that it can be done. No principal has the guts to fight the battle that's required to fire a single teacher...SO OUR KIDS LOSE !! Your choice...as long as you allow it ! Just play roulette that your kid lucks out by getting a good teacher....instead of that BAD one that you let stay on to ruin a group of UNlucky kids. Sad.

Everyone MUST fight the corrupt unions...union members and tax payers. Our enemy does not come from the middle east, our enemy come from within.

I understand your frustration with UNIONS but your complaint is simply not enough to convince they are not helpful to teachers.

thank you very much...now JONA, go clean your room!

"The Union" is too easy of a blanket term for these conversations. In reality the union is compromised of a number of individuals who have very different views on what education is and what it could become. Teachers are a member of unions by default, not because they are beacons of excellence. That being said, I would like to add some new teacher perspective as this is my third year teaching and my second in PUSD. Please keep in mind that bias is prevalent here as I am on the chopping block.

Prior to coming to PUSD I worked in an urban school district and when I was lucky enough to have an offer from PUSD it was hard to turn down. I thought I was hired based on my performance, my lessons, my curriculum, my collaboration; in essence, I believed I was hired based on what I could bring to the table. I have had amazing success and wonderful interactions with parents and students for two years in PUSD. The PUSD community made me realize how truly outstanding our schools are in comparison with what I initially experienced.

Sadly I was confronted with an opposite experience during the layoffs that are beginning for the upcoming school year. My seniority (or lack thereof) determined almost everything. With so many new teachers in similar positions the school district and the union had to develop a method to sort us for layoffs. NONE of the criteria for sorting teachers was based upon evaluations of our classroom performance. The criteria was so basic it is insulting. Did you major in the field you teach? Have you taught for more than 6 years (as if there is no difference between a five year veteran and a first year teacher)? Are you credentialed? As someone who believed his/her performance could only be measured in the classroom I felt disillusioned. I was hired based on a holistic package and I am being let go based on a numbers game that treats me the same as any other person who has gone through the basic teacher credentialing steps.

As a final note, the most often neglected group in these conversations are the amazing veteran teachers that are still doing an amazing job. I only became a good teacher by working collaboratively with those whose wisdom and experience far exceed my own.

Thanks!

Teacher wrote: "Teachers are a member of unions by default"

Not exactly. You don't have to sign the membership forms. More information at California Teacher Empowerment Network website: Web Link

Teacher, thank you for writing. You illustrate the problems of schools in California. Quality in teachers is not how teachers are kept; it is seniority.

I have a different experience with the teachers union however. I do not see them having views on what education is and what it can become. I see them trying to keep the most high-paying jobs, which today is through seniority. To be a decision maker in a union, you need to have many years in the district. By definition, those in union leadership roles have years of seniority and will ensure their jobs are protected. Perhaps if the rule was that the union leadership has to be a mix of 50% "seasoned" members, and 50% "newer" members, there might be more emphasis on better ways to keep good teachers.

I do agree with you that we do have some great veteran teachers. I don't think people are saying that the veteran teachers as a group are not performing. However, there are veteran teachers who are only here because of seniority. I would hope at some time the teachers with seniority would see that those who are not performing are giving veteran teachers as a group a bad name, and then find a better way to judge performance on quality and not seniority.

[Post removed due to disrespectful comment and for being off topic]

I've never made any pretense to know all nor claim to have "real solutions". I'm here to discuss, explore, and get people to look at their own thinking process. I post about what I find interesting. What do you care if someone looks into these issues?

You say I make assumptions yet you offer no counter-argument pointing out those assumptions other than to attack my persona.

Since you apparently have a better perspective, tell all our readers out there how moving away from seniority-only based layoffs has no application in this community.

Hiring and laying off should be done exclusively on merit, qualifications, performance.

I know of teachers who are well positioned here in PUSD, get involved in being chairs of departments in high school, or the teachers union and they are awful teachers. They are political because that is the only way they know how to keep their job: by seniority and union nonsense.

Start laying off based on peformance, please. We are losing many excellent teachers because of the seniority system. The ones who lose are the students.

I know of a teacher who is super bad and everyone hates and that teacher proudly announced in class that if the class she teaches now gets cancelled no problem for her, she can just go teach block or something. Yes, that is a problem, for someone who is bad to displace an excellent eacher.

BEST, not most senior should be the ONLY consideration for our students ! Logic & merit should prevail...except the teacher's UNION makes the rules....parents, taxpayers & students be damned.
What a concept !! Please explain WHY that is ALLOWED to continue !!
You are all accepting weakness, injustice, defeat....when will you take charge and not be willing victims of the public unions.

I agree with BEST. It's clear that everyone can agree which are the best teachers and which are the worst, making layoff decisions super easy!

Or is that too intelligent a plan for you liberals out there?

Ha ha ha! this is not the real Rat Turd but an imposter. Everyone wants to be a Turd but only one real one. I am not a liberal hater either nor more than I hate conservatives. Do admire common sense though.

What does make the best teachers?

For those of you who think the only good teachers are new teachers, I hope your boss doesn’t use that principle or no one over 40 would be employed. Why is it experience in the “real world” has value, but an experienced teacher is to be tossed out?

Remember that in California, teaching requires a minimum of a 4-year degree, an additional year of training and student teaching, and a 2-year training program within the first 5 years on the job (in addition to the responsibilities of everyday teaching).

I work hard at my job. I think people in other professions work hard, too. I just wish you treated teachers with the some respect.

Teacher in other district,

Have you looked at the report by The New Teacher Project? (PDF linked above in my original post) How would you evaluate teachers?

Is there a safe way to begin a conversation directly with teachers about change? There are few ways to engage teachers to speak outside the roll of union membership. A conversation without their input is lopsided.

At best, it seems there is a standoff--taxpayers cannot afford to be squeezed any more and from multiple directions (local, state, federal) and concessions are difficult. And in recent budgetary decisions, secondary is now pitted against elementary. No one is happy; there is no spirit of collaboration.

There has to be a better way--there's a whole lot of middle ground for reasonable solutions. Is there a way to vet ideas safely? Would teachers sign onto a web site conversation if they could do so anonymously (not here at the PW)? My sense is it's impossible for teachers to be part of a community based committee for this kind of discussion, but I'm happy to be wrong about that. The hope is to identify areas for potential future change without committing anyone to that change (couldn't anyway; it will take negotiation).

I would appreciate any teachers willing to respond to this broad idea.