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City awaits final noise complaint data as it considers Kaiserair expansion

Original post made on Jan 3, 2022

The city of Pleasanton says it expects to receive the results of the latest Livermore Municipal Airport noise study, conducted in the last half of 2021, by the end of January.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, December 31, 2021, 10:59 AM

Comments (10)

Posted by Longtime Resident
a resident of Harvest Park Middle School
on Jan 3, 2022 at 9:54 am

Longtime Resident is a registered user.

The article doesn't make clear that the runway isn't long enough to support loaded 737s under current safety guidelines and there's no way anyone is going to go through the hoops and millions of dollars it takes to extend the runway, destroy one part of the gold course, and reroute both flood drainage and Jack London Blvd. to do so. It only can support unloaded craft which makes it extremely doubtful that "more than three" 737s are going to be using the airport. Please educate your readers better.

Posted by Franco
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jan 3, 2022 at 9:56 am

Franco is a registered user.

I would like to point out the erroneous use of the words "restrict" and "restrictions" in this article which is misleading. For example, "voluntary guidelines Livermore adopted to RESTRICT night flying and recommended flight paths". Also "airport's voluntary night flight RESTRICTIONS". This language leads to a statement like " airport's "lack of adherence to voluntary nighttime-noise abatement and flight-path programs". These are POLICIES, not restrictions. The airport has NO AUTHORITY to RESTRICT the pilots who use the facility to follow particular flight paths or fly only during daylight hours. Only the FAA has authority to regulate something like this, which they will never do. In fact the statement "voluntary guidelines...adopted to restrict" is a non sequitur in itself. The airport actually acts in good faith by contacting offending pilots and badgering them to comply with the POLICY. This, admittedly, only works to reduce the problem of noise and/or night flying, not eliminate it. There are over 5200 public airports in the U. S. and noise complaints are perhaps the single most item of concern regarding them. For FAA's view of the issue go see: Web Link

Posted by Franco
a resident of Vineyard Hills
on Jan 3, 2022 at 10:24 am

Franco is a registered user.

I would like to reinforce Longtime Resident's point regarding runway length. The 737-300 is never going to be operated in and out of LVK loaded with passengers and full fuel. The 5000 foot long runway is too short. It is sufficient for relatively empty 737-300s to come and go. Something like at least 8000 feet is needed. One can arrive at such a conclusion by analyzing the graphs in Boeing's "737 Airplane Characteristics for Airport Planning" document. Longtime Resident also points out the hurdles if the runway were to be extended. A 3000 foot extension would put the end of the runway just hundreds of feet short of the shopping center, leaving no room for a runway overrun area.

Posted by Rich Buckley
a resident of Livermore
on Jan 3, 2022 at 11:06 am

Rich Buckley is a registered user.

Kaiser professes to want to move it's repair shop from Oakland to Livermore which by default means a new engine run-up "hush-house" where repairs can be tested. The environmental impact report for Oakland, CA "hush-house" Web Link indicated a 2 mile radius area of consideration for their 2014 report. This radius would seem somewhat inadequate for Livermore because of our hilly surroundings... the higher your home, the more noise that will reach you from the hush-house.


Drawing a similar radius on any location at the proposed development site for Kaiser Air at Livermore Air Port, forms a 2 mile radius arch that starts at (1) The Isabelle overpass across US580, continuing clockwise down through (2) May Nissen Park (3) on to about Concannon Blvd intersection with Isabelle Ave (4) clockwise, on around south of the gravel pits to included Vineyard Ave in Pleasanton, then (5) arcing rather intrusively into the expensive multi-story retirement development east end of Pleasanton, (6) continues clockwise jumping over US580 then (7) Covering portions of the east Dublin housing and (8) all of the Shea Housing Development, ending back at the Isabelle overpass at US 580.

City Voting Districts 1 and 4 will be impact the most if the 2 mile impact radius is used. A number of noise complaints continue to be filed at the Oakland Airport.

Posted by Jan Batcheller
a resident of Downtown
on Jan 3, 2022 at 12:13 pm

Jan Batcheller is a registered user.

The frequency and amount of noise generated by the Livermore Airport pales in comparison to the noise generated by the trains crossing through Pleasanton's residential area. Trains pass through at all hours and must blow their horns because the City of Pleasanton hasn't installed special gates that allow trains to pass without blowing their horns. I hope the City Council prioritizes which noise is worst and takes care of train noise before causing friction with our neighbor, Livermore.

Posted by Franco
a resident of Vineyard Hills
on Jan 3, 2022 at 1:00 pm

Franco is a registered user.

Jet engine noise is very anisotropic, that is, does not radiate uniformly in all directions. It is loudest in the direction directly rearwards of the engine and dramatically less so in all other quadrants. So the analysis by the poster is more scare than reality. We live above the valley floor exactly 2 miles south of the airport (for 29 years) and never hear the jets departing the airport. And how often will Kaiser be doing run-ups? Likely not often. (BTW, we do hear the trains on a regular basis and when the inversion layer in winter is present we can hear the traffic on I-580 a full 2 miles away. And that noise is continuous until the layer dissipates.)

Posted by Cathy Malone
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Jan 3, 2022 at 2:18 pm

Cathy Malone is a registered user.

Regular Passenger 737s would not be allowed to land or take off BUT other charter aircraft is also a problem. The noise and pollution generated by 10-12 daily charter jet flights using the airport (Embraer Phenom 300, Gulfstream G280, Gulfstream G200 Galaxy, Cessna 560XLS Citation Excel, Lear Jet 40)is excessive. Takeoff and landing paths are typically over Meadows Park, often as low as 800 feet. Google these jets and see if you would want them flying over your neighborhoods every day.

Posted by Franco
a resident of Vineyard Hills
on Jan 3, 2022 at 5:20 pm

Franco is a registered user.

I am very familiar with the jets that have been cited, and mostly during business days perhaps up to dozen come and go as stated. They are particularly less noisy that the 737-300 would be since they are much smaller and total engine power is much less (therefore less noise). A G280 is 1/3rd the weight of a 737-300. I see these types of traffic at LVK with my ADS-B monitor - for example, Costco's G280 comes on most days, stays for awhile, then departs back to Issaquah. There is a G550 (N333DS) that comes often and is double the weight of the Costo jet. All of these corporate jets mentioned since 2013 meet FAA Stage 3 noise requirements and therefore are much quieter than previous aircraft. I think it is somewhat arguable whether they are "often at 800 feet" over Meadows Park is accurate, or really, that it some times happens. The jets being spoken about will on departure typically accelerate to about 150 knots and climb at a rate of least 2000 ft/minute, usually more. Meadows Park is 1.4 nautical miles from the airport lift off point. This angle of climb will put the aircraft at an altitude at LEAST at 900 feet, usually higher since for noise abatement purposes most pilots will actuate a higher rate of climb than 2000 ft/minute. Now Meadows Park is at the eastern edge of Pleasanton Meadows and as the aircraft approaches overhead this eastern edge it is usually turning away toward the north, away from overflying the full residential area since it is following the Livermore Three ODP, which is a standard instrument departure.

Posted by Pleasanton Parent
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Jan 3, 2022 at 8:29 pm

Pleasanton Parent is a registered user.

The airport is out of control - I’ve been calling daily to report jets flying too low and too loud - over an elementary school no less . If we’ve learned anything these past two years it’s been you can’t be too safe. Even the risk of an occurrence is too much to approve any expansion.

Posted by Longtime Resident
a resident of Harvest Park Middle School
on Jan 3, 2022 at 9:11 pm

Longtime Resident is a registered user.

Such melodrama. Why should anyone take your opinion seriously?

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