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Pleasanton: Mental health matters take center stage in city's policing discussion

Original post made on Jul 22, 2020

Nearly 100 residents weighed in about the overall performance and service of the Pleasanton Police Department at a virtual community listening session on Tuesday night, following a recent spate of public discussions on policing.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 12:23 PM

Comments (39)

45 people like this
Posted by Great
a resident of Amador Estates
on Jul 22, 2020 at 6:24 pm

People are conflating mental health issues with drug abuse. Those are separate problems. The people who die in police custody tend to have drugs in their system that lead to their demise. Police are allowed to detain people suspected of committing a crime. If the suspect resists and dies because of drugs in their system it is not the fault of the police. These social workers you may seem to think have some magic wand will have the same outcome if they detain someone with the same drugs on board. But the reality is they will just call the police to come detain people and we will still be left with the exact same problem.


37 people like this
Posted by JB
a resident of another community
on Jul 22, 2020 at 6:45 pm

Sure was alot of assumptions on the police response and services that were provided/offered to Bauer over time. Most of the statements last night were not based on fact. Alot of one sided opinions with no facts to back them up. Pleasanton PD does an excellent job and the citizens of Pleasanton are very fortunate.


28 people like this
Posted by Willy
a resident of Old Towne
on Jul 23, 2020 at 9:23 am

Anybody that suggest that the Pleasanton Police Department be defunded is an Idiot! We have the best of the best don't screw it up!


27 people like this
Posted by Jack Edwards
a resident of Stoneridge
on Jul 23, 2020 at 10:02 am

Maybe the People that complain about our great Pleasanton Police Dept, should be required to ride on a night shift for a week, and after a police stop they could advise the officer on how to handle the offender properly while the guy is trying to kick the crap out of him.. Maybe more Money and more training might solve most of the problems. DON”T LET MOB DECISIONS RULE.


23 people like this
Posted by Olorin
a resident of Val Vista
on Jul 23, 2020 at 10:37 am

The Pleasanton Police Department actually has some community classes for both teens and adults. Citizens Police Academy, Volunteers in Police Service Program among others. But, of course, this would require personal time and effort and it's easier to just complain about something that they only vaguely know about than to get a true understanding of the facts.


21 people like this
Posted by Beth
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Jul 23, 2020 at 10:55 am

My experience with the police helping in a mental health crisis was a positive one. My son was at his psychiatrist's office. He was experiencing a mental health crisis so she wanted to hospitalize him. The protocol is that they have to call the rescue squad. Transport via ambulance to the hospital is required; I wasn't allowed to drive him there. The fire dept and the police swap calls sometimes so a policeman came instead. The policeman was very kind when interviewing my son, assuring him that he wasn't in trouble. My son was never treated like a criminal. When the policeman asked my son if he had thought about how he might commit suicide my son said slit his wrists or suicide by cop. Would my son have followed through on his ideas? In his usual state I would say absolutely not but in a mental health crisis I don't even know. Obviously, this was a controlled situation, in a medical facility where we could make sure that no one could get hurt. Afterwards I was thinking about how difficult it would be for an officer out in the field to determine whether someone they don't know at all was having a mental crisis--and how dangerous it would be for both. The policeman called me later to make sure my son did not have a gun. Patients who have been admitted to a psychiatric hospital have to sign something that says they can't have a gun for 5 years after their hospitalization. (Not that signing that would stop someone, in my opinion, but maybe it puts them on a California list so that they can't legally buy a gun.) I certainly support mental health training for anyone in a position of needing to interact with people in crisis. Those are volatile situations. I was thankful that the policeman who was involved in our incident had some training.


12 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 11:05 am

I have tried to stay out of this because the community should have their say. I think those who spoke did a nice job. But I don’t think this is about defunding the police; it is about using part of a $2MM budget to fund mental health and other areas. This isn’t a small community of 30,000 like when I moved here. We need time and distance, de-escalation, and oversight of this department for the protection of its 90,000 people.


16 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 23, 2020 at 12:42 pm

Rachel Scott
Daniel Rohrbough
Dave Sanders*
Kyle Velasquez
Steve Curnow
Cassie Bernall
Isaiah Shoels
Matthew Kechter
Lauren Townsend
John Tomlin
Kelly Fleming
Daniel Mauser
Corey DePooter
Richard Castaldo
Lance Kirklin
Sean Graves
Michael Johnson
Mark Taylor
Anne-Marie Hochhalter
Brian Anderson
Patti Nielson
Stephanie Munson
Nicholas Foss
Joyce Jankowski
Adam Kyler
Trista Morrell
Evan Todd
Makai Hall
Patrick Ireland
Daniel Steepleton
Kacey Ruegsegger
Lisa Kreutz
Valeen Schnurr
Mark Kintgen
Nicole Nowlen
Jeanna Park
Jennifer Doyle
Austin Eubanks


These are the victims of just a single incident where police used Kathleen's suggested "time and distance" mantra. "Time and distances" places criminals' lives above the public. This is unacceptable.


6 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 1:33 pm

urmomz, I’m not sure what you think time and distance means, but it is not walking away.


15 people like this
Posted by Wombat
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 1:50 pm

@Kathleen Ruegsegger wrote “ urmomz, I’m not sure what you think time and distance means, but it is not walking away.”

Since you are the one here on these forums advocating a “time and distance” approach, shouldn’t it be up to you to precisely and clearly define what “time and distance” is supposed to mean? I thought that I understood what you meant by “time and distance” when you wrote that Jacob Bauer should have been allowed to walk back home in his meth high state when I described a scenario of what might happen if he were allowed to walk back and enter his apartment or house alone with the police left waiting outside. But, no, you said that that wasn’t what you meant be “time and distance”. Urmomz listed victims of various incidents involving the “time and distance” approach, but now you write that that’s not what you mean, either.

So, Kathleen, for once and for all, state precisely and clearly what you mean by “time and distance”. Or are you unable to precisely define what you are advocating?


6 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 2:07 pm

Time and distance can be a variety of things, Wombat. It can be just staying and talking to the person until mental health experts arrive. It predominantly involves mental health experts.


14 people like this
Posted by Wombat
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 2:32 pm

@Kathleen

Sorry, but I think that your description of “time and distance” is inadequate for explaining what the police or authorities should do in a real life situation. So please use an example such as the Jacob Bauer incident and precisely describe what should have been done. You already stated that you thought that this person should have been allowed to walk home by himself even after he had smashed bottles at a supermarket and even though he showed signs of being high on drugs. So please fill in with further details about your approach as applied to this example. What should the police have done when he got to the door of his apartment or house? Let him enter it alone or stopped him or something else? If they let him enter it alone, then what should the police do? Patiently wait outside, and if so for how long? Or should they call in mental health experts? And what if the person (Jacob Bauer) refuses to see or talk to the mental health experts? What then? Should the police then forcibly take him into custody? Also, remember that in this case the person had taken enough meth that it was within the possible lethal range so aside from any mental health issues there was also a need to get him medical attention as soon as possible for his physical health. How does that time-critical medical need balance against the need to address any mental health issues in the person?

If you do have a worthy alternative strategy to the present way of dealing with situations like the Jacob Bauer case, then you need to be able provide answers to all these questions. If you can’t provide these answers, then you’re not really offering an alternative strategy but just a half-baked idea that you need to think more about.

I’m fairly open minded and flexible in my thinking and welcome new ideas, but I honestly don’t think that you have a fully fleshed out idea in your mind that can be translated into a practical strategy for dealing with cases like the Jacob Bauer incident.


7 people like this
Posted by Bryant Annenberg
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 3:35 pm

@wombat

The Bauer situation is too easy.

PPD Middleton & Chin did give Jacob Bauer time and distance when they first encountered him.

Everything was in control by the PPD.

But for reasons currently no one knows except Middleton & Chin, they moved in and attacked Jacob Bauer, who had been cooperating and obeying their commands upto the time of attack.

Neither Middleton or Chin gave Jacob Bauer time or distance.

If they had just stood there for “time”, this tragedy could have been avoided.

But that is not what this News story is about.

Most calls received by Police in the Tri-Valley concern: substance abuse, alcohol intoxication, homeless, mental illness. So a focus on mental illness is not unreasonable.

The many young people who spoke passionately on Tuesday night should also be recognized.


8 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 3:35 pm

Wombat, time and distance depends on the situation, but in Jacob’s case, he lived with his parents, and they could have helped; they were looking for help. It wasn’t obvious he was high. Waiting outside is viable; the PPD did it with Scott Hagan. The mental health people would help facilitate taking him to the hospital. I won’t get into the specifics of Jacob’s case; there is a court case pending. You certainly can look at the three tapes this paper provides and draw your own conclusions. The bottom line is no one should be hog tied or have a knee on their neck for over 8 minutes like George Floyd. The police are here to protect all of us.


9 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 23, 2020 at 5:03 pm

“ urmomz, I’m not sure what you think time and distance means, but it is not walking away.”

Huh? Well, that makes it very clear that you have no idea what happened at Columbine.

The police gave two mentally ill people, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, all the “time and distance” they needed to murder 13 people and injure 21 others while they waited for experts to arrive. You’re advocating for a return to this approach to policing, where the police place the safety of criminals above the safety of the public. This is unacceptable.

The police need to make judgement calls on these challenging situations while you sit at home behind your keyboard and demonize then for making the best decisions they can with the information and resources they have. Sorry they’re not perfect, but I will side with them every time when they choose the safety of the public over the safety of a violent criminal.

Shame on you for dehumanizing and demonizing the police yet again.


7 people like this
Posted by Wombat
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 5:30 pm

@Kathleen Ruegsegger

It may or may not have been completely obvious to the police officers that Jacob Bauer was high on drugs but from his behavior they suspected it and, in fact, a blood test later found that the amount of meth in his bloodstream was in the lethal range. So aside from any mental health issues, Jacob Bauer needed medical attention ASAP. Waiting would not have been a wise option. It also wouldn’t have been wise or safe to just let Jacob Bauer - a guy who was high on meth - enter his parents’ house alone with them inside for obvious reasons.

You”re making multiple gambles with your approach. You would have been betting that mental health professionals could have convinced someone high on drugs to turn himself in and cooperate before the lethal concentration of meth in his body killed him. You would have been betting that this person high on drugs wouldn’t have turned violent and suicidal once he was in his parents’s house and that he wouldn’t have killed his parents, or have overpowered them and then filled the house full of gas and blown up the house and half the neighborhood, etc..

You’re really rolling the dice with your approach and would be betting the lives of Jacob Bauer’s parents, the lives of their neighbors, and the lives of innocent others that everything would have turned out OK. We’ll never know if the gamble would have paid off in the case of Jacob Bauer, but we do know that if we start making it standard policy to gamble with innocent lives in such cases, then sometimes the gamble is going to be lost with horrific consequences.

If you’re OK with that, then say so. But don’t say that you think that one can gamble without ever losing a gamble.


16 people like this
Posted by Wombat
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 5:40 pm

@Bryant Annemberg wrote “ But for reasons currently no one knows except Middleton & Chin, they moved in and attacked Jacob Bauer, who had been cooperating and obeying their commands upto the time of attack.”

No, Jacob Bauer was not cooperating with the police officers. It’s pointless to lie about it since the incident is all on publicly available video.


5 people like this
Posted by Bryant Annenberg
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 5:59 pm

@wombat....

Ok, so he did not answer a question when asked....still no reason for Middleton & Chin to attack and handcuff.

But after listening to all the speakers from Tuesday, I think I now know why Middleton & Chin attacked & handcuffed.

This attack and handcuff approach is standard PPD policy.

All the stories shared, many personal, tell of a child being attacked and handcuffed by PPD. All with long term detrimental affects to the children.

Not one story was shared Tuesday night of a positive interaction between PPD and a mentally ill person.

PPD even attacked & handcuffed a student who suffered a seizure.

Look at the quote (better yet, listen to the PUSD school nurse who spoke).

Bottom line is 2 major camps have evolved: the pro-police attack & handcuff policy, or the healthcare provider time & distance approach.

It will be interesting to see if the City Council continues to support a policy of “attack & handcuff “ when this exercise concludes.


4 people like this
Posted by Bryant Annenberg
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 6:04 pm

@Wombat

If you truly are open minded.....

Suggested reading:

I’m not sick, I don’t need help

Xavier Amador


15 people like this
Posted by Wombat
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 6:42 pm

@Bryant Annenberg wrote “Ok, so he did not answer a question when asked....still no reason for Middleton & Chin to attack and handcuff.“

I pride myself on keeping an open mind and considering all viewpoints, but when you write sentences like the above you’re really hurting your own credibility. I saw the video. The officers did not “attack” Jacob Bauer. An “attack” would have been if they had come up to him and started beating him with their fists and batons while kicking him. That would have been an “attack”. The officers did nothing of the sort. They went up to him and attempted to get his hands behind his back to handcuff him in order to gain control of the situation, apparently because they thought that here was something not right about his behavior. And they were correct because later tests confirmed that Bauer had a potentially lethal concentration of meth in his body.

I don’t know why you would try to characterize the officers’ behavior as an “attack” when we can all view the video of the incident for ourselves and see that it wasn’t an “attack”:

Attack (verb)
(1) Assault
(2) To try to hurt or defeat using violence


5 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 6:44 pm

Wombat and urmomz, time and distance could be standing there with Jacob until the medical people arrived. Instead, he was handcuffed and then put in a wrap and passed away while saying he couldn’t breathe. He had a right to not respond to further questions and incriminate himself. I am not dehumanizing or demonizing anyone.


5 people like this
Posted by Bryant Annenberg
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 23, 2020 at 7:12 pm

@Wombat

Look in the mirror when taking jabs at credibility.

No one knows what Middleton & Chin were thinking.

So please do not tell us what they were thinking.

But regardless of the Bauer encounter, I’m shocked hearing the stories of PPD encounters with PUSD students.

One poster on a previous thread stated that kids in Kindergarten are being handcuffed by Police.

Somethings not right.


9 people like this
Posted by Olorin
a resident of Val Vista
on Jul 23, 2020 at 7:16 pm

George Floyd was a convicted felon...of course he would have been treated differently. From criminal to saint, only in this bizarro world, Kathleen.


12 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 23, 2020 at 7:29 pm

“One poster on a previous thread stated that kids in Kindergarten are being handcuffed by Police.“

If you actually believe this Bryant, care to put your money where your mouth is? I’ve got $10,000 on this being a bald faced lie (much like 90%+ of police misconduct allegations are found to be). Since you apparently believe these anonymous posts about police misconduct, are you willing to wager something real on these anonymous allegations against the police? I am.


7 people like this
Posted by Olorin
a resident of Val Vista
on Jul 23, 2020 at 7:33 pm

Does anyone remember when Mohamed Noor a black immigrant cop shot and killed Justine Diamond, a white Australian American woman and all of the people of Minneapolis were so outraged that they took to the streets to riot, loot and burn businesses. And then demand that the police be "defunded"? Ya, me either.


19 people like this
Posted by Linda Kelly
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 23, 2020 at 9:05 pm

@Bryant Annenberg, You either didn't watch the entire meeting or turned a deaf ear when I read this positive story from the mother of a man who also had multiple encounters with the police over a 15-year span. It was early in the meeting, only a couple of speakers after John Bauer unleashed his rage, leaving everyone reeling just a bit.
Gathering from the tone of the Pleasanton Weekly's story, I have to think they, too were so absorbed in getting Mr. Bauer's words right that mine were eclipsed.
The letter was read by me because the author has recently lost her son and her emotions were too raw to read it aloud in front of an audience we knew would be listening. I had prepared for 3 minutes, but because there were so many emotional speakers behind me, the time limit abruptly became 2 minutes., it appears her positive experience was lost when I was cut off by the mayor.
Since you missed it, here it is again, just to make sure everyone understands there are people who have had positive encounters. There was another woman who spoke later in the meeting as well. And if you back up on this thread, you'll find one from Beth as well. So...


"My personal experience with the PPD over the years.
Unfortunately I had a son with Bipolar who was also addicted to drugs, not an unusual combination. We as parents along with friends and other professionals tried to help my son (who I will call Mike) stay off drugs and on his meds. His fight was hard for him and also for us as parents.
For years we allowed Mike to live with us thinking that keeping him off the streets would somehow help him, and no parent likes telling their sick child to leave. But eventually his sickness was making my husband and me sick.
Over the years Mike got progressively worse, none of the programs seemed to stick and at times he-d be so strung out it would make me feel as if I was losing my mind. There were also times of belligerence.
On multiple occasions, I had to call the police department to intervene. I couldn't get through to Mike and occasionally felt in need of the department's help and insight. Many of the responding officers had come to know Mike and if they saw him walking on the streets would stop to ask how he was doing.
Thankfully he never hit us, but on drugs, one never knows what can happen. The drugs did make him delusional. I'm sure that we called the PPD a dozen times over the course of 15 years and every time the officers treated my husband, myself, and Mike with equal respect. I appreciated that, because we certainly were feeling humiliation and shame and I'm sure Mike was also.
I never saw them antagonize him even when he had to be cuffed and taken to John George, the county mental hospital. It is my hope that officers will continue to be trained about mental illness and drug abuse so they can be even better equipped to help.
The most frustrating fact for me was most of the time the officers would look at me with a helpless look and say 'we're sorry, but there isn't anything we can do'. If Mike wasn't talking about taking his life or someone else's life he couldn't be taken in on a 5150 (72-hour psychiatric hold) ...which by the way never turns out to be a 72-hour hold because John George is the ONLY county mental hospital and it is over-flowing with patients.
Hopefully dollars can be allocated to build more facilities that can treat and help our loved ones who suffer with mental illness and laws can be changed to include harmful and out of control behaviors as reason for a 5150 hold.
I could say more about the subject on how the mentally ill are cast out like garbage, but this is about my experiences with the Pleasanton Police Department and I have nothing but good things to say about my encounters with them.
It might be beneficial for the PP to have someone working in-house to help with mental illness calls and resources.

Signed,
A longtime Pleasanton Resident"

So don't tell me or anybody else there were no speakers with positive stories about encounters with the police. That is simply wrong.


9 people like this
Posted by Jake Waters
a resident of Birdland
on Jul 24, 2020 at 8:04 am

@Great, @JB, @Willy, @Jack Edwards, and more- Excellent comments and I stand with you in supporting our officers with the Pleasanton Police Department.

@Kathleen Ruegsegger‘s ‘Time and Distance’ undefined mantra is exactly what the police are doing in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Denver, and more. It is the Democrat’s response to allow our country to fall and burn. No thanks. I don’t want that police response coming here.

@Bryant Annenberg - Officers Middleton & Chin DID NOT ‘attack’ Bauer. They did their job. The way some people use language to spin, deter, and control the narrative never surprises me. Having officers attempting to restrain suspects on drugs, exhibiting signs of violence, and threatening our community so the arrival of a mental health guru can arrive and talk to them about their feelings is absurd and ludicrous.

For some of you maybe you should look at living in Oakland or SF where their Mayors have neutered their police department.


6 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 8:33 am

urmomz, here’s proof of child arrested: Web Link All you had to do was google it.

No one is asking to neuter the police; we are asking that everyone be held to a standard of sanctity of life. The first sign that Jacob couldn’t breathe was to sit him up.


15 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 24, 2020 at 8:47 am

Kathleen, thanks for the link. What does some cop 3000 miles away have to do with Pleasanton? We’re talking about Pleasanton for Christ’s sake. I’m sure next you’ll be blaming Pleasanton for George Floyd’s death too.

Prejudice against a group based on the actions of a single unrelated individual is surely a noble goal. *rolls eyes*

Shame on you.


4 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 9:15 am

Nice try urmomz. You didn’t specify Pleasanton. I think you owe Bryant $10K.


13 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 24, 2020 at 9:33 am

He’s clearly talking about Pleasanton, as that is literally the topic of conversation. Or is he prejudging an entire group based on the actions of an individual 3000 miles away? Hard to say I guess, wouldn’t surprise me if either of you were prejudicial based on your dehumanization of police officers.

Shame on you.


7 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 11:01 am

I have not dehumanized one police officer; haven’t used their names either. This isn’t about individual officers. There is no shame in wanting all people to be safe and alive.


11 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 24, 2020 at 11:16 am

Huh? You have repeatedly criticized officers who have protected themselves when they’ve had guns shoved in their face and their heads smashed against concrete by violent criminals. Removing a human’s right (whether a cop or not) to protect themselves from being murdered by violent criminals is dehumanization through and through.

You can try and spin it any way you want, but this is the heart of the matter. You prioritize the lives of violent criminals over the lives of the public and the lives of the community. In your world, cops would martyr themselves on the alter of mental health so violent criminals can victimize the community. That is never going to happen.


6 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 11:55 am

I went back and looked, and I did not dehumanize anyone. We need time, distance, de-escalation, oversight—and any other tools that protect all lives.


3 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 1:27 pm

I’m not sure what you think you are proving. It’s pretty simple, time, distance, de-escalation, oversight.


7 people like this
Posted by Bryant Annenberg
a resident of Downtown
on Jul 24, 2020 at 1:30 pm

@ Linda Kelly

Please thank your friend for sharing her story.

It is stories like this which support the need for a CAHOOTS type of program in Pleasanton.

Hopefully, the City Council heard your message.

I am sorry for your friend’s recent loss.

For more info on CAHOOTS... Web Link

Bry


7 people like this
Posted by Bay Area Native
a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Jul 24, 2020 at 2:53 pm

It's easy to criticize others who have seconds to make life and death decisions while you sit at your keyboard in the safe bubble of Pleasanton.

Go live or work in a violent neighborhood then tell me you want fewer officers on the streets. Provide facts on what specifically PPD is doing that needs to be corrected.

When I was young I lived in the Fillmore District one block away from a public housing project. At one point in my life I worked in South Central LA. Spoiled, entitled, "woke" people have no concept of what it is like in these neighborhoods. They "demand" the de-funding of police without knowing what it's like to live in an environment where you fear for your personal safety on a daily basis.

For all of the idealistic folks who want to reduce officers PLEASE move to a high-crime community. Nothing is stopping you. Learn by experiencing what you advocate.


2 people like this
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Jul 24, 2020 at 3:16 pm

BAN, We are spending $29MM (2019) in this department (not the $2MM I misstated). Surely we can do something for time, distance, de-escalation, and oversight.


13 people like this
Posted by urmomz
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 24, 2020 at 4:04 pm

Kathleen -

You’re calling for change for the sake of change. You try and justify the need for change behind the deaths of a man who overdosed on methamphetamine, the death of a man who stuck a gun in a police officer’s face twice while attempting to murder his family, and the death of a man who attempted to murder a police officer by repeatedly smashing his head against the pavement.

As an example of the “success“ of your time and distance mantra, you point to a city where the police kill more people, the police use more force, and that has an out of control crime rate.

The change you are calling for has zero factual support and does not hold up to an ounce of scrutiny.

I’m sure in lalaland, your ideas would be great. In the real world, your ideas endanger the public, endanger the police, and are just plain dangerous.


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