Thank you Rachel, a statement from our civic leaders is in order.
However, this scourge in America has had a long and historic life.
I grew up in Brooklyn, N.Y. and I very well remember the neighborhoods that were predominantly either Irish, Italian, Norwegian, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Asian or Black (many were from the Caribbean). These neighborhoods put the "melting pot" of NYC and the USA to the ultimate test; often failing. In my day a marrige between an Irish man/woman and an Italian man/woman was considered a mixed marriage on both sides, not with any joy. The difference is that these mostly white folks were able to eventually break out, even if it took a generation or two.
Many things have changed for the better over the last few decades, but we still have a long way to go.
So, in a long winded response, I agree that all of us and especially those we choose to represent us, need to speak up, with courage and conviction.

Let’s stop hiding here. Let’s fight for equality:

I am heartbroken and in a sort of state of denial. How can this happen? What is wrong with my beloved country? Equality, honor, God, all for one and one for all - what has happened to those values? Why people who are on the other side (in professional way) are acting the way they act? Why police officers use force when they are here to protect? Is it the mentality of a herd meaning if one of mine is doing something then I am obliged to do it too? People! Everyone can think for themselves. Use your brains, listen to your heart. This circle of violence has to stop! I beg you - WAKE UP!

[Portion removed due to promoting a website]

Sure, a statement, just so we all feel good. The fact is, it is already illegal to be racist; plain and simple. What we need is more black, Indian, Mexican and other POC officers. Simple as that. I am talking about everywhere, not singling out Pleasanton; does anyone even know how many Police misconducts occured in the last 10 years in Pleasanton? Let's revisit those, and see if those officers are having proper reviews. Anyhow, this whole thing is pissing me off. Signing off.

@Drexl, I agree with you that a statement is just a first step but I think an important one. Silence speaks volumes as well, and the only activity I saw on the Pleasanton PD Facebook page was about protecting the mall, with hundreds of comments thanking PPD for doing that. Not a single message about the loss of the lives of George Floyd or Breonna Taylor at the hands of the police. I'm afraid that having more diverse police forces doesn't solve the problem really, I saw video after video of cops of all races using police brutality at peaceful protests this last week. Take a look at this site Web Link and as always, a good place to be an ally would be to go directly to Web Link and amplify their work and voices.

What exactly are they going to say that hasn't already been said? It's not like there is really any controversy. Every rational person has already condemned the killing of George Floyd.

I would prefer our local officials save the grandstanding and do what they were selected to do - focus on problems that are impacting our local community.

Pleasanton Police already meet our needs and perform their work in a conscientious manner. We are lucky to have them and if you do not already realize that, maybe you are not in tune with our own police department.

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. There needs to be a statement from the police department of any city, including Pleasanton, no matter how "far removed" people may think we are. We are in fact not far removed at all. Police brutality and systemic racism exist everywhere in this country. We need to wake up to that and start taking a stance against it.

The police department and the people can work together if we recognize injustice and take proactive steps to end it. It is an act of unity.

I would rather see their plan for how they are reviewing their internal processes, checks and balances, and metrics to ensure they never create a similar situation and are actively looking for faults in the system that may lead to the mistreatment/mis profiling / etc of different populations of people.

Let’s see the work, we don’t need anymore keyboard activists.

Real action (or no action at all) speaks louder than all the false words we have been inundated with.

False apologies mean nothing if action is not taken to address any racial inequalities that may exist.

In regards to making a statement "no matter how far removed," should we demand city leaders make statements on:

Cancer is bad?
The Armenian Genocide being real?
The Holocaust being an atrocity?
Slavery being terrible?
The 23 police officers feloniously killed this year?
The 58,866 police officers unlawfully assaulted in 2018?
Looting being bad?
School shootings?
Gang violence?

What exactly is your criteria for statements you demand of city leaders? Is police brutality more important than the Rwandan Genocide? Apartheid? Modern slavery? Sex trafficking? If we demand city leaders make statements about everything that is obviously bad, they would never have time to carry out city business.

Yes. As the city of Planned Progress, let's take a stand. City leaders, you can count on all the reasonable-minded citizens to stand behind you. Please take a public position. If it's true that we wouldn't let this tragedy begin here, then let's help it end here. There is no middle ground on this one. This is about taking a public stand for what's right. And if protestors from inner cities want to know how those of us in the suburbs feel (from our civic leaders to our police force), your public leadership position will be one we can point to...together.

To echo Karl, talk is cheap. As the great Bob Burns said, "Don't talk about it, be about it."

As a teacher in this community I was upset when the school district had several closing meetings and didn't acknowledge this national story which is so deeply saddening to many. I could sense a tension in the air and also a fear of how any message might be taken. I've taught in the communities protesting in the past and I will say Pleasanton is way behind of this topic. People have a hard enough time even talking about race, it's very difficult to have a critical lens on racism, power and privilege until you are willing to admit and unpack the ways those have shaped your own identity and worldviews.

I think that Pleasanton Police and the city leaders are doing exactly what they need to do; which is to keep our community and people safe from mobs. Making a symbolic statement about condemning police brutality is fairly meaningless. Anyone who thinks that Pleasanton leaders or Pleasanton police condone police brutality doesn't understand our town. Let's all focus on not letting the mob decide how we should react. There will be a time and a place for a quiet show of solidarity supporting anyone who has been treated unjustly by someone in power, but don't join the mob.

The first step to making change is acknowledging that change needs to be made. The police department has yet to do that. Also, I would argue that this is not at all far removed for our black and brown residents of Pleasanton. Pleasanton police department is not getting a very good grade on Police scorecard at this link here Web Link so the question is, can they improve? Do they want to? How does their funding compare to the funding for schools for next year, knowing that school budgets are potenitally being cut (the Governor has proposed significant reductions to K-12 Education funding including a 10% reduction of the Local Control Accounting Formula (LCFF) from 2019/20 levels.) because of a large budget deficit. I'm calling on the police department and other city leaders to speak up, then we can move forward.

Amador,
That's unfortunate. The school district should have addressed this and prepared teachers with content on how to discuss with students, parents, etc. Even if only to acknowledge what's happening and to recognize the need to develop said talking points.

Race and racism is probably one of the most difficult things to discuss, and in our current climate of "everyone has an opinion" and "don't say anything that may hurt someones feelings", "live your own truth" we're doing our future generations a dis service by not preparing them to have difficult conversations.

I think the schools need to teach constructive conflict. Today's students don't know how to deal with failure or conflict. They've been taught to avoid it. This is wrong. They need to be taught how to confront it and how to move forward after working through it.

If you ask parents of kids with privilege to come in and apologize for it, you've got a non-starter. If you have parents of kids without privilege and want them to say it doesn't exist you have a non-starter.

I think we've avoided difficult discussions, even in literature the kids read, its "safe", most of us probably read Huck Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc growing up. These books put racism and American history in the forefront of the conversation. Extremely difficult to read and discuss, especially in a school district like Pleasanton where the majority of kids are not Black. Its extremely uncomfortable to read those books written back in the 60s and then contrast them to current events today.

I was fortunate and had great teachers that could navigate and stimulate that conversation and level of uncomfort really well. We need more of that today, stop "protecting" kids from what's really happening - step them up to the bigger issues, but that needs to be part of the current curriculum.

What's important is how to navigate from points of conflict, to points of agreement. Today, we've failed, look at politicians - completely polarizing, couldn't get any farther apart. All or nothing. We're teaching kids the same.

We need to embrace disagreement and conflict, and teach them how to identify the areas of contention and areas of commonality. I think if we build that characteristic they'll be much better suited to deal with the harder topics like race relations moving forward.

Rachel,
Did you read that scorecard? Its too "gross" of a comparison to other police departments without accounting for the area. I like metrics, but they need to be meaningful.

I.e. - if you take it at face value, the PPD is 29% more bias against white people in death or severe injury in arrests than any other demographic in pleasanton when compared to other police departments.

That is all true Pleasanton Parent and I didn't make my comment so criticize my school or any one institution in general. More to diagnose the fear of talking about this in public spaces has to be addressed. And to say that many of the views you are able to maintain as a resident of this community are in deep conflict with the reality of life in many black and brown communities. But the truth is we should all be critical of ourselves and our own biases at this point, rushing to find a solution or blame another entity is a window into our mindset. We can't address the problem until we understand it and we can't understand it until we start actively seek narratives that challenge our worldviews. Those narratives are out there, but wealthy suburban communities tend to either ignore outright or tokenize them often. At least in my experience.

Rachel, that is just about the most skewed view of the police department I have ever seen. For example:

"100% of Guns "Perceived" were Never Found (1/1)" The incident described involved a man pointing a shotgun at the police. The police retreated. He then followed them out and pointed a bb pistol altered to look like a real pistol at them. He was, quite justifiably, shot. Tragic, but unavoidable.

"TOTAL CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS 13 Reported | 8% Ruled in Favor of Civilians"

This says nothing about the validity of the complaints. Considering the police arrested more than 4,000 people, having only 13 complaints is pretty miraculous. They also made 4,000 arrests and only used force 13 times. Again, that's pretty damn impressive. What exactly do you expect?

"COMPLAINTS OF POLICE DISCRIMINATION 0 Complaints Reported "

Wow, their racism is so rampant there was not even a single complaint!

"ALLEGED CRIMES COMMITTED BY POLICE 0 Complaints Reported"

And they're so corrupt, there isn't even a single allegation of criminal conduct.

What does that all result in? A "D" report card. Give me a break.

A better gauge would be the city's most recent satisfaction survey, which found 94% of people were satisfied with the police department (the highest of any city department). Pretty impressive for an agency whose job is to enforce the law.

Claiming the police department is behind on this issue has absolutely no foundation in reality.

I agree Pleasanton Parent that it is too gross of a scorecard for a relatively small, very white place like Pleasanton. I shared because I found the website fascinating even if it’s not perfect, I like data when I can find it and it’s often hard to find this data. Amador, thank you for your perspective, I worry about how little race is addressed when the classrooms are so white. Most of us don’t have the right words or language. It’s something I’m constantly working on.

Rachel if you are looking for reading material I recommend Robin DiAngelo's White Fragility to help address the issue of not knowing the right words. But frankly it's a conversation where Pleasanton could use some help from outside perspectives, but tends to be pretty isolating to outsiders. However now would be the time for Pleasanton to organize a community to raise awareness around anti-racism. Maybe there already is such a thing and I'm not aware of it.

Amador,
Completely agree - and wasn't suggesting that those specific books should be brought back, just using them as contrasting examples from my past that drove the type of discussion and conversation in the classroom that I do think needs to come back.

Amador, I’m actually reading that right now! I hope other people interested in anti racism join me in doing that. Its very powerful.

Not sure why Pleasanton leaders need to comment on a situation that happened in Minneapolis.

However, this seems like a very similar situation to what happened to Mr. Bauer outside of Raley's in Pleasanton. He had respiratory distress and died as the police were arresting him here in Pleasanton at the corner of Sunol Blvd.

Like George Floyd, he had recently taken methamphetamine according to news reports. George Floyd was also high on fentanyl.

Pinning Mr. Floyd down by the neck was absolutely horrible, but I'm not sure what the police should do when they come across someone high on drugs like fentanyl and methamphetamine.

Well if you think this is just about Minneapolis you have not been watching that much news. This is a protest across the country, in fact it has gone global. Even the most aggressive strategy of morally policing people who from communities that are foreign to us may not work in this situation. People across the country are speaking up to get white people from suburbs like Pleasanton to listen, but it still falls on deaf ears. Pleasanton is a city that is rich with power and privilege, and it exerts downward pressure financially and socially as such. People in Pleasanton often want to look at it like it's the top stone of a pyramid but ignore that resting on those stones is what allows it to be on top. Those other stones don't exert upward pressure on Pleasanton, but it sure does exert downward pressure on them.

But convincing people like Citizen is like the last priority in this battle. The relationship Pleasanton teaches of authority is a worth examining. We have police officers walking around campus and that profession is constantly praised. That's fine if it comes with a critical examination of its history of rounding up slaves and how the relationship people in poor communities feel to police is absolutely the opposite of how those in wealthy communities feel. That critical lens is not offered, but we freely talk about Oakland and Hayward as "bad" neighborhoods. Kids learn from an early age to be scared of places where black and brown people live and it has long-term effects.

Citizen,
Its beyond the Minneapolis event. That was a horrific tragedy - drugged or not, that person shouldn't have died in police custody.

Kathleen R and I have traded opinions on police tactics relative to active threats to officers - whether issues of mental distress, and other situations where individuals were attacking officers and I've typically sided on the officers side of right to defend themselves from an active threat.

This was not that, in no way shape or form. And more in alignment with what Kathleen has advocated for in the past, is greater training, responsibility, and accountability around police officers de-escalating potentially harmful situations to individuals and themselves without any loss of life. A huge ask in some regards, but I think given what we're seeing today, that does need to be the ideal "end state" we start from and walk back from in order to get there.

While I'll always support an officer's right to defend themselves from an active attack, I can't say Kathleen is wrong in her desire to reach a point where all people walk away alive. And if we start at an officers right to defend themselves vs all people walk away alive - my stance is supported in both, with upside in hers.

There has been three people killed by PPD in the last several years while in the process of being arrested or detained. Two of these individuals were in emotional distress at the time of arrest. I am no expert in police procedures, but I do know that there is training and “de-escalation” strategies that police can use to defuse these situations. I believe that PPD has participated in this training.

You may not be aware that the city is about to enter a five-year contract for services related to Tasers and body cameras. While the common impression is that Tasers are less than lethal, in practice it has shown not necessarily been so. For instance, Jacob Bauer was tased 4 times by police before he died. The use of tasers is very controversial and some cities – such as San Francisco – will not use them.

Part of the larger problem is that there is no public oversight of police policy or activities. Police departments are very insular and don’t like public scrutiny. In Pleasanton, this is performed by the City Manager and Police Chief. The City Council has no role whatsoever in this. Many large cities do have “police commissions” consisting of civilian experts and citizens alike to fulfill this function. Many believe that this epidemic of police killings – racially motivated or not – could be improved with increased public oversight of police.

See below for an email I sent to our City Council on this subject. As a former two-term Council member in Pleasanton I believe I have some insight into this. The meeting in question has been postponed until June 16th. Please send an email to the Council at citycouncil@cityofpleasanton.gov if you would like your voice heard on either of these issues.
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“Dear Mayor and Council,

I am writing to express my concerns about the 5-yrear contract to supply Tasers to PPD that is on your agenda Tuesday night.

Our country has erupted into protest and in some cases violence over yet another black man being unjustly killed by police – a case so extreme that the local authorities have taken the rare step to arrest the perpetrating officer on murder charges. For many years police in the United States have killed – mostly black males – wantonly for trivial matters without accountability. Pleasanton has its own history, not motivated by race, but police violence nonetheless that has resulted in the death of emotionally disturbed individuals that were members of our community, the most recent the result of multiple police tasings in an attempt to gain the compliance as the result of a trivial crime.

The time is long past for police policy to be strictly the purview of City Managers and Police Chiefs. We’ve seen how that has played out nationwide. In the spirit of the remarks made today by Governor Newsom, its time for communities to engage and to establish policing policies that reflect the values of each community and for the respect of all people. To enter into a contract for Tasers at this time of national upheaval without a community discussion about how they should be used – or if they should be used – would be an irresponsible and inflammatory act. In addition, discussion should be held about the role of the PPD in mutual aid programs and the violent tactics used against peaceful protesters in Oakland and other cities where our officers have been deployed. Also, what is the city’s strategy for managing the protest planned for June 5th at Amador High School?

The consequences of wealth inequality, decades of institutional racism (400 years since the first Africans were stolen brought to the Americas as slaves), economic and social injustice against communities of color and poor white communities, a militarized police force trained only in public compliance, and the mass unemployment and disproportionate health effects of COVID-19 on these communities have brought us here. We are literally on the brink of a civil war if something doesn’t change.

Pleasanton can be part of the solution, or we can continue to be a part of the problem. Police policy must be opened up to public scrutiny. The only way this will change is if three members of the City Council ask for it. Be on the right side of history, deny this item, and establish a process for civilian and public participation in developing police policy and in oversight of police actions.

Thank you.

Matt Sullivan”

Matt -

Have you read the city council agenda for the Axon contract? From your comment, it does not appear you are familiar with the scope of the agreement. The taser equipment is a small portion of the overall contract. The contract primarily covers the replacement and continuation of services for body-worn camera equipment, interview room recording equipment, and evidence storage. Those services are no longer offered from Axon without the taser bundle. Failing to purchase the bundle would result in the police department's body-worn camera and evidence storage systems to cease to function.

I would imagine you support police using body-worn cameras and storing that video somewhere? Transitioning to a different vendor simply to avoid receiving the bundled tasers would result in a significant disruption to services and likely an increased cost.

As a former city council member, I would expect you to better educate yourself before spewing off.

....ugh, this is my problem.

I agree with Matt's surface level intent, but don't believe he's being transparent in his true motivations.

Matt's right about asking for policy review/updates/changes.....but why so hyper focused on tasers Matt. Who's funding this one? I just question your credibility after the Costco affair, maybe you're right about the deal, but you're sure not showing your cards on the true financial backers of that fight or what they have to gain/lose. And I honestly don't believe there is any "deal" you'd actually support around Costco going in.

But I agree with urmomz that video camera footage is a must have in any future state, protects the individuals and protects the officers. Its a true win win.

George Floyd's death was unacceptable.
George Floyd resisted arrest- his death was unacceptable.
George Floyd had multiple illegal drugs in his body- his death was unacceptable.
George Floyd had a prior felony conviction that was pleaded down to arm robbery (home invasion). HIs prior conviction should have had no bearing on the mistreatment he received which led to his unacceptable death.
George Floyd made many horrendous missteps in his life, and yet, his death was unacceptable.

/////

Rioting, looting, causing bodily harm, including murder of innocent people is unacceptable.

Actively seeking the overthrow of our government is unacceptable.

/////

There is also an excellent opinion article in today's Wall Street Journal by Heather Mac Donald regarding Systemic Police Racism. It is backed with scientific data.

I am wondering Mr. Sullivan what is your remedy when the PD is faced with a much larger much stronger much younger suspect that they or he or she is trying to arrest?More dialog? If all police officer were able to physically restrain a suspect by talking that is great as the father of a retired Oakland Police officer you need to have some insight into the difficulty of the job and the inherent dangers they face I suggest you get into the real world. All the officers that have been shot, had rocks , bottles and other objects thrown at them had nothing to do with George Floyds death which is a tragedy. There are bad cops bad firemen bad politicians.

Urmomz and Pleasanton Parent,

Just like the Costco debate, you and other anonymous posters have attacked my credibility in an attempt to undermine my message and intimidate me from participating in this blog. Who wants to get attacked every time they post something? For the hundredth time, I have no financial or economic stake in Costco - other than as a taxpayer opposed to subsidizing a $100 billion corporation. Nor do I have a financial stake in this issue. You may not be aware of this but there is such a thing as a citizen activist working for the benefit of their community without financial reward.

On the other hand, who knows the real motivation of anonymous posters who routinely attack people who have different views than them. Some are political consultants working on behalf of clients or other special interests, some are paid trolls, and even some City Council members have been known to post things anonymously to support their goals. Use your real name so we can determine which category you fall in.

But going back and force like this is like having a twitter war with Donald Trump. It's a destructive waste of time. Stick to the issues.

Matt,
I agree that attacks are not value add, and have defended your reputation as someone that cares and has served our community, and those things in themselves are incumbent of respect for being involved.

That said, I don't have to agree with your position on every issue. And while I do believe you, yourself may not have something of personal gain, I do believe the interests (at least on Costco) due - and to be transparent; Pleasanton's gas prices are noticeably higher than surrounding areas and a few families own that revenue to date. So while you or they may have no financial gain, surely the financial losses they could take are equally motivating. And while even protecting that interest is understandable, I find it cowardly to do so under the guise of some other public interest that wouldn't stir the same reaction say if it were a Costco without a gas station. My position, and not one that should dominate this discussion as you're original intent is what I think is more appropriate for discussion.

So if I may - perhaps a constructive edit to your request may focus more on the policies than on the specifics of a particular product selection. I agree with your ask there and thank you for taking the steps to initiate a discussion with the appropriate city leaders.

Why would they need to make a statement?? How come it comes down to race? People are protesting black lives matter.. what if the victim hadn't been black? Would it still be an issue? Doubtful. The only people being racist are the protesters! How about don't commit crimes and you won't have to deal with it. The officer in jail for murder. Move on.

I don't know of anyone, left OR right, who has not condemned the horrific murder of that poor man. It was sickening

It nice that you want the city leaders to join the 10,000 other people expressing their (justifiable) outrage at that event. But I would rather the city leaders focus on keeping US safe from rioting and looting. Peaceful protests are fine and it is every citizen's right. But looting, rioting, shutting down freeways is not.

I hope our city leaders do everything they can to prevent that. Their number one priority should be to provide safety to our citizens and small businesses, most of which are reeling thanks to COVID.

Parent,

Calling my actions "cowardly" is not an attack? I've explained my motivations numerous times on this blog and to the city. Use your real name an I'll be happy to have a discussion.

Matt, you really didn't clarify... Do you not want the police department to continue using body-worn cameras? Do you want them to scramble to find another vendor that doesn't bundle tasers with the cameras? Do you want them to transition their evidence system over to a different vendor?

You made a lot of accusations about tasers and failed to address 95 percent of the contract. Where do you stand on these issues?

Rachel Wysong

You make many general statements about "white" people.

You have no right to make assumptions about me because I am "white".

"White" people can have a very clear understanding of what's going on. While the focus now is on back vs. white, in reality this country is a racist based country - everything comes down to race and racism.

Not to take away from Mr. Floyd's death - but ALL people need to start looking honestly at themselves, their personal biases and prejudices, and how everyday we all treat others differently and unfairly based on the way they look, rather than who they really are.

This applies to ALL human beings - racism is not just a characteristic of "white" people - any race can show racist attitudes towards others.

Until this country realizes this, we will never escape our ugly history.

I disagree that the Police Chief needs to make a statement on where they stand on the George Floyd incidence. I am glad to see so many people and the "likes" on these other statements that agree. I don't understand what another statement would benefit anyone at this time? I have lived in Pleasanton over 30 years and have complete confidence in our police department. I know a few of the officers and have limited experience with the department. All I have seen and know about them is complete professional attitudes. Matt, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and read yours.Mine is let the police department determine their needs. Let me see, Tazer or gun which does the least harm to the individual? Also think the Tazer would protect our police officers from physical engagement.

Another diversion taking off topic from original poster...! Urmomz and Spudly had it right...on back to back posts! Clear and simple! Original poster made an opinion what he/she wanted.

Karl you may not like hearing the phrase "white people" but it's a term that's going to be around for a while, and it will carry with it negative stereotypes until we start to recognize our history. And the way we have a culture that forces outsiders to acquiesce to it but tend to be bad at acquiescing to others. You simply can't have an actual discussion about race and racism without recognizing whiteness. All generalizations break down when projected on an individual, but as individuals if we're white we do have to realize some of the general stereotypes and how that came to be to begin to try to counter-act them.

The Pleasanton Police have already made a statement regarding this type of encounter.

Capt. Cox has made the statement that "This is appropriate"

The similarities between George Floyd & Jacob Bauer are almost exact.

Capt Cox of the PPD made this statement to the media shorty after Jacob Bauer was tortured by the PPD, and died. (for not talking, he remained silient when asked a question, according to Capt. Cox)...this can also be seen on the video posted.

A Pleasanton Police Officer can be seen in the video "pinning" Jacob Bauer to the ground, in the exact fashion which George Floyd was pinned to the ground.

The last words of both Jacob Bauer and George Floyd were "I cannot breath".

In both cases, the Police failed to provide ANY medical attention to either after their "I can't breath" plea.

Independent autopsies commissioned by the Bauer family & the Floyd family have pinpointed the cause of death to be asphyxia.

In both cases, the Government ME has determined the cause of death NOT to be asphyxia.

There is NO WAY that the PPD is going to issue a statement you're suggesting, when their very own officers acted in the EXACT same manner as those officers in Minneapolis did.

Any statement that they make would be disingenuous.

Within 24 hours, all Officers in the George Floyd encounter were fired, and one charged with murder within a week.

No disciplinary action was taken by the PPD or the City Council against the Officers involved in the Jacob Bauer encounter.

Bry

Rachel Wysong,

"very white place like Pleasanton"

"Very white"?

White: 57.77%
Asian: 32.78%
Two or more races: 4.95%
Black or African American: 1.97%
Other race: 1.71%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.50%
Native American: 0.32%

Please tell me Rachel Wysong, tell me what the RIGHT racial makeup is that would benefit your social standing amongst your friends?

Where would we be without your virtue signaling and making everything about "whiteness".

I really despise the implicit racial response you brought to this board.

I'm saying this as a 1/2 Mexican (mother) 1/2 German (father) conservative.

So let's talk race, sister.

Dan

The poster above is correct. What happened in Minneapolis happened in Pleasanton, but where was the outrage when it happened a block from downtown Pleasanton and two blocks from city hall?

After being tasered repeatedly, Mr. Bauer was told to roll over, then the Pleasanton Police started to yell at him to stop resisting to get Mr. Bauer in some sort of wrap. By 10 minutes a Pleasanton Police officer had a knee on his neck/head and is pushing his face into the ground. At 13 minutes it sounded like he says he can’t breathe. At 21 minutes Mr. Bauer says he is suffocating. Eight minutes later his face is blue.

No Pleasanton police officer was fired. At least Minneapolis PD fired the officers. Why was there no set of protesters in Pleasanton when Mr.Bauer suffered the same fate?

Matt Sullivan,

"...you and other anonymous posters have attacked my credibility"

This is utterly preposterous. You NEVER HAD and credibility to start with, Matt.

Dan

This is not just a “white” problem.

The Asian community is overtly racist towards Hispanic and African American people.

We need to recognize this exists in our community and address it.

And I disagree this happened in Pleasanton, the difference being an active aggressor vs a passive detainee.

That doesn’t mean we can’t improve.

There was a struggle in the back of the police vehicle in Minneapolis. This was not a "passive detainee" situation from what the videos show.

Police are using the neck restraint like Pleasanton and Minneapolis police officers and this needs to be banned permanently.

Speaking to Floyd’s family, the Minneapolis police chief called officers who stood by as George Floyd was dying “complicit.”

I'd say the same thing happened to Jacob Bauer in Pleasanton as happened to George Floyd in Minneapolis.

Everyone on this thread seems to be an expert in policing, yet I bet that not one of you has ever worn the uniform of any law enforcement agency. But TV is a great way to become an expert. I agree with all that the Minneapolis incident was wrong, REALLY WRONG!! That incident and the Bauer incident are no even close to being similar. Those comparing the two need to get a reality check on what happened in each incident. As much as I detest the Floyd incident I keep hearing that it was raciest. Really, how do you know that? Just because it was a white officer and a black man, does that alone make it racist? I think not. It was one policeman who screwed up for whatever reason. I would bet this was not the first time this officer applied that restraining technique on people of all races, this time guy just happened to be black and died. We need to let this play out so we all know the facts and justice will work.

"But I agree with urmomz that video camera footage is a must have in any future state, protects the individuals and protects the officers. Its a true win win."

Having video cameras is decidedly NOT a win/win for bad cops and perps.

They're a win for US!

They're a win for us because we can immediately go to the video and see who's telling the truth.

Let's face it, bad cops have been protected for too long, and so have criminals.

We are a law and order society. The looting and pillaging of businesses and maiming of innocent civilians by animals, and the politicians and groups who are applauding them should pay a heavy price for what they've done.

Dan

@Pleasanton Parent wrote “This is not just a “white” problem. The Asian community is overtly racist towards Hispanic and African American people...... That doesn’t mean we can’t improve.”

WOW! Your broad brushed smear of an entire race of people made up of many different ethnic groups is pretty racist in itself, fella.

You had better start by trying to improve your own attitudes in regards to people of other races.

Oh ok. All whites are racist, Asian community isn’t. Got it.

Carl,

In a sane world, your questions would be met with round agreement, and yes, I do agree with your points.

But we don't live in that world any longer.

Dan

@Pleasanton Parent

No, all whites aren’t racists.
No, all Asians aren’t racists.

Here’s the new standard:
Police have to “get it right” EVERY SINGLE TIME because if they make even one bad mistake the dirtbags at CNN, MSNBC, NY Times and all the other hypocrite anti-American “liberal” media will whip up the under-informed populace Into a frenzy and set the country on fire.
PS: There are over 200 million encounters every year between police and civilians and approximately 1,000 killings of civilians by police and 99% of the killings are deemed justified by courts of law.
That, apparently, isn’t good enough. Remember, the police have to be PERFECT in doing their jobs or CNN & friends will tell us to burn it all down.
Thanks liberals!!!

wombat, agreed. And yet pusd just sent out talking points for white parents to talk to white children about. Literally one of the modules is called “whiteness” and another talking points for white parents.

Apparently whitey is accountable....so if we’re going to get through this we need honesty and transparency in what’s happening in society to contribute to a systemic problem. And if whitey is to blame, let’s have that convert, but if there are other groups that have prospered with equal privileges then they too need to come to the table and accept discussion around contributing to the problem and solutions.

Publiuos,
Yes, they do. It’s not an easy request, but that is the std that we need to get to. And what we should be concerned about is 4 officers all got it wrong.

Not 1, and 3 corrected. All 4. That is a dangerous fail safe condition

@Pleasanton Parent wrote "wombat, agreed. And yet pusd just sent out talking points for white parents to talk to white children about. Literally one of the modules is called “whiteness” and another talking points for white parents."

You want to correct your statement above before I tear into you for being a bald-faced liar, Pleasanton Parent? I happen to be a parent of PUSD students and received the same PUSD email that you did, so I think that you had better back up and try again.

Wombat, look at the 4 modules you can sign up for.

Read the ah ha parenting article.

I’m not making this up.

So if whites are more racist to blacks, let's look at the actual crime stats as easily attained.
Violent crimes involving white/other ethnicities is only 5% of all crime committed (600K/12M). Yet, black on white crime is 80% of that (480K/600K). Does that mean blacks are more racist or are facts irrelevant? Of course I don't believe they are, but come on, quit parroting progressive talking points that have no facts other than self loathing feelings. There are so many self hating statements made above by certain poster's that it's actually sickening.
They claim we generalize other races while they generalize us all.
They claim we are privileged by living in Pleasanton, yet here they are living in Pleasanton and not in the cities that they claim we warn our kids about. Pretty pathetic.
They're like the rest of the liberal elitist mouthpieces who jump on these manufactured crises. They don't live in the neighborhoods they claim to support, but by gosh they'll show up once a year to pass out turkeys for the holidays to look and feel good.

@Ben J. wrote "let's look at the actual crime stats as easily attained.
Violent crimes involving white/other ethnicities is only 5% of all crime committed (600K/12M)."

Wrong. Totally wrong. The fact that you think that whites and other ethnicities/races other than blacks commit only 5% of all violent crimes shows that you're not to be taken seriously.

@Pleasanton Parent

What are you talking about with the "4 modules you can sign up for"?
Where is this module that you claim that is "literally" called "whiteness"?
Give the date of the PUSD memo that you are talking about with quotes from it which mention modules that one "can sign up for" and also provide evidence for this module which you say is "literally" called "whiteness".

Here are a few possible proactive solutions:

1) Independent Complaint review boards with private citizens included
2) Yearly National standardized de-escalation training for cops on the force with less than 10 years experience and every other year training for police over 10 years experience
3) More community policing, beat walking
4)EMS called to every scene when there is the use of force
5) Getting away from the culture of cops not telling on other cops

Pusd publication today

1st link - your kids aren’t too young to talk about race
- For Educators and Teachers: teaching tolerance: race and ethnicity
- discussing whiteness- webinar

2nd link - talking with children about racism police brutality and protests
- defends looters as demonstrators and infers police shouldn’t defend themselves when attacked.

3rd link - how white parents can talk about race

@Pleasanton Parent

Those are external links to suggested reading for parents who are interested in discussing the protests with their children. Where are the modules that one "can sign up for"? Where is this module that is "literally" called "whiteness"?

Also, there were four, not three, recommended reading links, the 4th one being titled "Children’s books that talk about racism".

You're in the habit of making wild, baseless claims that you can't back up. In your latest post you make the wild, unsupported claim that one of the links "infers police shouldn’t defend themselves when attacked". Really? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you write stuff like that?

Wombat,
I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make it drink.

The very first link in the pusd published info, then navigate as I described above.

Yes, you’re right there are four links, I didn’t have any issues with the fourth hence no reason to bring issue to it. There are good resources in the first as well, it’s not all bad, nor did I ever claim it to be.

Have you even read them? Please don’t call my claims baseless when you clearly haven’t absorbed the content. The second link is the one that supports that claim.

Also interesting.........."You're in the habit of making wild, baseless claims that you can't back up"
- no evidence of habitual behavior or examples provided
- my claims have a base, I provided them, you elected not to follow/read them

.........so yeah, who is really making the wild basis claims? I won't assume its habitual as I don't care to research your history here.

........this is also taking away from what's important; to the original intent of the post. What is the expected action our leadership should be taking part in? Just a statement condemning the behavior isn't enough. It needs to come with the follow up of......"and as a result we are going to do...."

Personally I think ensurance of video capture of every interaction is a great start, I think having a independent organization/committee review both good and bad interactions is a good start, what is the action the protests are calling for?

I don't recall any statement from David Haglund when Jacob Bauer died in custody within feet of the Pleasanton Unified headquarters at the corner of Sunol and Bernal just a few feet down Sunol Blvd after saying he could not breathe when the Pleasanton police was detaining him.

Yet in this situation, Haglund says on the PUSD web page : "As your Superintendent and a lifelong educator, I felt a moral imperative to reach out to you regarding the deep pain and grief that is being experienced locally and in communities across the country following the public death of George Floyd.

Please know that we stand together for equity and community, and our educators and leaders continue to do critical work driven by our PUSD mission that our students will make a better world. We too must join them in that work. The institutional racism and systemic bias that continues to be exposed in events like those of the past month are sobering reminders of why this work is so important." etc etc.

Yet PUSD said absolutely nothing when Jacob Bauer diedd in a similar manner within feet of PUSD headquarters --- but in this instance it was a white man who also said "I can't breathe" in an interaction with the local police department.

There is video of the Jacob Bauer incident. I suggest you watch it and draw your own conclusion on whether it was even remotely similar to the George Floyd incident.

IMO, the two incidents are extremely dissimilar for many reasons, not the least of which is Bauer died of a drug overdose.

Are you all really upset or is this just PC liberal BS? If you are truly upset about racism why aren’t you upset about rioting and destruction of our inner cities which are to mostly African Americans and minorities? What about their homes and businesses? Where will they buy food, clothes, and gasoline? I was around when MLK was killed and all the big city riots. It took 30 years to rebuild and in some cases never. How would you feel about protests which turned into riots in your own town? Be careful what you ask for.

The third party autopsy contends Bauer died as a result of asphyxia during physical restraint by police.

I've seen the video of both and they seem nearly identical, except George Floyd seems to have had two drugs in his system --- fentanyl along with methamphetamine. Also PPD did the foot sweep maneuver to tackle Bauer and tasered him at least twice. And it took Bauer longer to pass away as he turned blue from lack of oxygen.

@ Pleasanton Parent
My skin color is PINK, not white, so I am not racist by your standard right? My neighbor has skin color that is TAN, not brown or black, is he racist? I just want to know who’s racist and who isn’t by your “ skin color test”. Should I ask my dermatologist if I am racist? My dermatologist deals with the melanin in my skin, he should know if I am racist right?

Everyone must bend the knee and comply!

Jacob Bauer and George Floyd have more in common than not. But the real point is, when will this stop?

Just saw that San Diego Police Department banned the use of that neck restraint tactic.

Is PPD reviewing their current restraint procedures, moves, etc and making decisions around what to keep and what to abandon in order to preserve order, protect officers, protect individuals in custody?

These are easy small steps.

@Kathleen Ruegsegger wrote "Jacob Bauer and George Floyd have more in common than not."

What's that supposed to mean? The officer who pinned down George Floyd has been arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter. Are you suggesting that some or all of the officers who handled the Jacob Bauer case should also be arrested and charged with murder and/or manslaughter? If not, then what the heck is your statement "Jacob Bauer and George Floyd have more in common than not" supposed to mean?

@Wombat

The short answer is YES

However, after Alameda DA Nancy O'Malley's office concluded in their investigation, it was highly improbable that they could get a jury to vote unanimously for a conviction.

Remember, the Oscar Grant criminal case against the BART cop?

O'Malley's office failed to get a conviction.
Remeber the Oakland cops with the 18 year old "prostitute"?
O'Malley's office failed to get a conviction.

The list goes on.

This is typical of DA's throughout the Country...they are not even bringing cases to trial for Police Brutality.

In short...why not?

Answer: The laws are written by the Police to protect the Police.

I applaud members of the US congress who are proposing bills which will strip the protections away, and hold those officers accountable for their actions (of Police Brutality/Excessive Force)

@Bryant Annenberg wrote “The short answer is YES.”

Your answer to my question “Are you suggesting that some or all of the officers who handled the Jacob Bauer case should also be arrested and charged with murder and/or manslaughter?“ is “YES”?

OK, let’s see if Kathleen Ruegsegger wants to go down the same road that you did.

@Wombat

Everyone should be going down this road.

Regrettably, the USA has moved toward becoming a "Police State".

Law enforcement, courtesy of Supreme Court Judge Renquist, have been given a"get out of jail free" card.

On one hand, I agree with the DA's throughout the USA not filing charges. As O'Malley's office has pointed out, it is almost impossible to get a conviction at trial in State courts. However, on the other hand, I find it extremely hypocritical that DA's throughout the USA (including O'Malley) are issuing press releases critical of the George Floyd death, when their offices do not have the confidence (or spine) to bring law enforcement officers to trial.

If you have not been paying attention, people in the Bay Area are getting killed by Police for:

Jay-Walking
Holding a box-cutter
Holding a gardentool
Holding a cell-phone
Remaining silent when asked a question.

and the coup de gras:

In Dallas , TX, a person realizing he is in a state of crisis, calls the Police for help....they arrive and kill him.

No disciplinary action or charges against the officers involved.

Web Link

Be careful Wombat, you or any member of your family are not immune to this type of excessive force.

What the Pleasanton city leaders need to do is fire the officers that were responsible for Jacob Bauer's death similar to what the police chief did in Minneapolis.

And just like San Diego, they need to ban all forms of the carotid hold whether it is with arms, knee or foot. No one except obviously pregnant females, people with Down Syndrome or juveniles/elderly people are immune from having the PPD place an individual in one of these holds. So if you are a female and not pregnant, the PPD has no problem stopping your breathing and rendering you unconscious or dead via this method. And for males, unless you are elderly and a juvenile, the same situation. Apparently the only people the PPD will not use the carotid hold on is people with Down Syndrome. Otherwise, according to the PPD policy manual, you can all be victims of their carotid holds.

Here is what the PPD Use of Force section says:

"The application of a carotid control hold on the following individuals should generally be avoided unless the totality of the circumstances indicates that other available options reasonably appear ineffective, or would present a greater danger to the officer, the subject or others, and the officer reasonably believes that the need to control the individual outweighs the risk of applying a carotid control hold:
1. Females who are known to be pregnant
2. Elderly individuals
3. Obvious juveniles
4. Individuals who appear to have Down syndrome or who appear to have obvious
neck deformities or malformations, or visible neck injuries"

We are just a bunch of white people wallowing in self loathing or pity. I think this whole thing is being driven by the political class. They are diverting our attention from what is really going on. They are enriching themselves at our expense through their globalization efforts. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer as we see the middle class eliminated. What is going on is not protesting nor will it impact anything at all. Its a complete riot and if they actually cared about the african americans why are they destroying homes and businesses in poor neighborhoods? It will take 30-40 years for the destroyed areas to be rebuilt if ever. If the demonstrators or rioters cared about equalization they would be attacking the suburbs and burning down white businesses and homes.

@Pete

agree with you 100%

This tragedy has been hijacked by the politicians,and special interests looking for photo-ops (Both Elephants & Donkeys), and shallow denunciations of the actions of the 4 officers involved.

What is most ironic, the reason law enforcement has no accountability is a direct result of the laws passed by the Elephants & Donkeys to protect the Police.

Joe Biden makes me want to vomit when he speaks to the George Floyd tragedy. What about the out 1,100 people killed per year at the hands of law enforcement? BTW...most of those 1,100 people killed are caucasian.

Bry

Wombat, I was speaking about their deaths. Bryant makes good points though.

Amador

Making general assumptions for a group called “white people” is just as racist as making general assumptions about other groups.

The point I would like to make is that this is the approach that has been taken to address racism in this country since the 1968 assassination of MLK and RFK - only white people are racist and the cause of all our problems. How is that working for us? Are we getting better or worse?

In an age where “racist “ is assigned to people just because of an honest disagreement on policy or politics is standard practice, racism is not being looked at seriously.

When non-white people make comments that would be deemed racist if spoken by a white person but ok for a non-white person to say, racism is not being taken seriously.

We can certainly spend the next 50 years blaming white racists for all the race problems, but the country will be in the same bad place and have made no progress.

A politically incorrect idea in these times, but everybody in this country has their own individual biases and prejudices that can lead to racism. It’s independent of skin color. It’s an integral part of being human. If you can’t recognize this, you can’t overcome it. And you will continue down the path of anger and hatred, and we will continue to be a country that is race focused rather than treating each person as the unique individual they are.

Looking in the mirror is hard - many people don’t want to see and acknowledge their true self.

I try to see my true self - sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail. But at least I make an honest attempt.

Without getting into issues of potential criminality, did anyone actually believe the official autopsy in the Bauer case, having watched the videos? If you don't believe it, I wonder what faith we can have in any other part of the process?

The whole thing by the ruling class is to divide us against ourselves because if we are divided we don't focus on what they are trying to do and thats to take care of themselves and we had better wise up. We get hit on 911 by primarily Saudi Arabian terrorists directed by OBL in Afghanistan and what does Bush do? He invades Iraq.....Iraq! Why? because an invasion requires a lot of money spent buying tanks, ammo, planes, supplies you name it and it goes to his buddies in the defense industry. By the way, Saudi Arabia buys 13 trillion per year of weapons per year from our defense contractors, more than the next 9 countries combined. You think that might be why we did not hold them accountable?

Obama comes in and spends 8 years dividing us, "clinging to their guns and bibles", "elections have consequences", "everyone would agree that the police acted stupidly", etc. Remember the 2 trillion spent on those shovel ready projects? I can't think of where the money went..........hmmmmmm his buddies. He then starts investigating Trump never thinking he might win but when he does win we start with Russia, then the Mueller investigation, then the phoney impeachment, voting on bills filled with graft, the virus which is looking like a big nothing burger, now we have these riots. I agree Biden is barely moron level and the things he says are just beyond stupid, "law enforcement should be trained to shoot in the leg" Seriously? in the leg?

All of this is meant to deflect attention away from our leadership and now I hear Obama is going to speak at 5:00. Why? because he is in danger of being exposed during the investigations so he needs to deflect.

Think about the above and how much money and capital has been wasted. We have poverty, drug problems, collapsing infrastructure, homeless, crime and all of that money could have been used here at home. They are disgusting.

In my opinion President Obama had the perfect opportunity to get us going in the right direction.

Unfortunately he went down the political path, using racism as a tool to meet his political goals.

I could only tolerate being called a racist for so long, due honest policy disagreements rather than me taking actual racist actions.

Of course the Republicans contributed to him taking this path using racism for their own political agenda.

One more thought: in 50 years whites will be a minority just like everybody else. Maybe then our country will be more honest about racism and it’s causes

@Kathleen Ruegsegger wrote "Wombat, I was speaking about their deaths. Bryant makes good points though."

Yeah, Kathleen, so was I.

Let's try this one more time::

(1) I asked you "Are you suggesting that some or all of the officers who handled the Jacob Bauer case should also be arrested and charged with murder and/or manslaughter?"

(2) After Bryant Annenberg wrote “The short answer is YES" to my question and you still hadn't responded, I then asked you again. A second chance for you to explain your comment.

It appears that you're trying to evade answering my question or to even clearly state what you meant by your insinuation-packed comment of "Jacob Bauer and George Floyd have more in common than not". So I'll give you a third and final chance to either answer my question in a straightforward and direct way (like Bryant, for example, did), or to clarify what you meant by your initial comment.

Why do you find it so difficult to answer? It's not a trick question. It's a simple and direct question. And if you think that your initial comment needs clarification, here's your opportunity to do so.

Wombat the Interrogator seems to be cross-examining the forum posters.

This morning's city announcement of upholding First Amendment rights and their outrage concerning the George Floyd death, without addressing their own re-examination of Pleasanton police use of force in carotid holds, which of course seems to have resulted in an almost identical death situation of Jacob Bauer, is not only hypocritical, but seems insincere.

Did you notice they signed it using their titles rather than their real names? Very odd that it was signed City Manager, Police Chief, Mayor and City Council and Pleasanton Police Officers Association. They didn't even use their own names. Notice how they de-personalize the entire "Letter to the Community." And they never mention Jacob Bauer.

Citizen

Do you really need to ask why Bauer is not mentioned?????

Take guess.......

I’ll guess. It’s a lawsuit.

#8can’twait looks at a variety of cities and how they are handling people: Web Link

I doubt they would do it anyway.

Kathleen speeds off after performing yet another hit-and-run insinuation against the PPD......

Just read the letter.

My take...

People living in glass houses should not throw stones.

Give this letter to the 2 African-American women who were delivering Amazon packages last year.

A resident called Police accusing them of stealing mail.

PPD responded, detained them for almost an hour, and the Officer was quoted in the media “what did you expect, this is Pleasanton “

Draw your own conclusions on whether or not racial prejudice exits in Pleasanton.

@Wombat
You are wasting your time arguing with these people. One thing the people that lean to the left politically like to do is tell you how to live your life and what you stand for. They could care less that they don't know you or your values, they want you to live by their standards because all else can't be good. Facts mean very little to them, they make up their own. There is not a shred of evidence that there was any racial motivation in the Minneapolis incident yet people are calling it racist. Why, because it fits their narrative. Kathleen and anyone else comparing the Floyd and Bauer incidents as being similar are being disingenuous. Floyd was a relative passive subject while Bauer was aggressive and combative. Apples and oranges.

Enough said, it is a complete waste of time trying to have a conversation with people that received their police training from television shows.

Wombat, I answered you. I don’t need to answer again. Not answering you again doesn’t change anything about either one of us. It’s okay.

Bauer v. City of Pleasanton (3:19-cv-04593)

Carl, Bauer didn’t have to respond. He was detained. He said he couldn’t breathe. He was ignored. He died. Much of this happened to Floyd too. He was detained. He said he couldn’t breathe. He was ignored. He died.

At the risk of being politically incorrect and possibly banned:

Bauer was white.....

Carl,

"Wombat - You are wasting your time arguing with these people. One thing the people that lean to the left politically like to do is tell you how to live your life and what you stand for."

Wombat IS left, just not on this particular topic.

You see, the left is REALLY interested in law enforcement, but ONLY when it directed at the right. Hence, when you see rioting and looting and killing of police by these rioters, there will nary be a peep out of the left. In fact, they will encourage the mayhem by simply letting it go on.

It's all being played out right before our eyes on TV right now.

I too am concerned about police brutality. I don't know a cop (two of my best friends are cops) who doesn't think what happened to Floyd was a travesty. It makes all cops look bad.

However, the militarization of police is not setting a good trend. It's happening because the cities are becoming very hostile places for the good guys.

The leftist mayors, city council members, and attorneys generals of those cities should be tried for malfeasance and incompetence., but they won't.

The left protect their own.

Dan

Yes, Bauer was white. But color doesn’t matter.

@Kathleen
"Bauer didn’t have to respond. He was detained" What the hell does that mean?

I'd like to ask a question; where did you receive your training in the use police tactics and the use of force?? Are you a POST certified instructor?

@DKHSK wrote "Wombat IS left, just not on this particular topic."

Wrong. I'm an independent. I call them as I see them, which is a concept beyond your simplistic "either-with-us-or-against-us" view of the world.

Carl, He was asked a question; he didn’t have to respond. He was then detained (in a very brutal manner, but that’s my take on it). He said he couldn’t breathe. He was ignored. He died. I’m not an instructor.

Kathleen

You are being naive.

Bauer was not mentioned because he was white.

The political narrative surrounding us today is the anger is all about white police killing a black man.

It’s not about police practices inflicted on everyone regardless of race.

It’s about racist white people killing black people. Nothing else matters.

@Dan,
I agree with you. Wombat seems at least level headed on most things. Kathleen not so much. She is one of many that see everything though their eyes only, there is only one way and it is their way.

@Kathleen, glad to know you are a TV trained critic and not POST certified since your rants are so far left it's scary. As I suggested to you before, contact PPD and take a ride a long for a shift and maybe you'll have a better understanding of police work. If you really feel adventurous take a ride-a-long with Oakland PD on the graveyard shift in east Oakland. That will OPEN your eyes!

@Carl

Just curious:

Do you believe the official autopsy report in the Bauer case?

Do you have any sense as to how the civil case will likely be resolved?

@ Carl

Question for you.

Is it acceptable for law enforcement to stand over a person, handcuffed and laying on the ground; and for numerous Officers to deploy their tasers to the person?

If the police unions weren't so powerful, then police officers who engaged in brutality and ended up with a lot of complaints that were sustained would be fired.

Instead the police union protects these police officers. Firing a police officer is as hard as firing a teacher.

The good news is by now practically everyone on the planet has seen with their own eyes police brutality first hand and when they get time to serve on a jury for someone killed at the hands of the police, it will no longer be a slam dunk that these police officers are found not guilty.

@ Citizen

I would hope so, but until the “get out of jail free card” is taken away, no cop will get fired, or go to jail.

Write your US congressman & Senators

@Carl

Police immunity from prosecution is both a left & right issue.

Even Clarance Thomas believes that the issue of Police immunity needs to be addressed.

I would guess that the Supreme Court will take a case(s) in 2 years.

"@Kathleen, glad to know you are a TV trained critic and not POST certified since your rants are so far left it's scary."

Kathleen will tell you she's a Republican, she just doesn't agree with any policies on the right <---true

Dan

"Police immunity from prosecution is both a left & right issue."

Agreed, but even more important is getting rid of "Qualified Immunity" for other government officials, like Congressmen/women and Senators.

It's time.

Dan

Dan, I have spoken against death as a way to control people. I have spoken against Measure M. What else?

I’ve been rattling my head for the systemic part of this and I think you hit it on the head - unions.

The police Union has absolutely protected officers and that protection has extended too far into legal protection.

We need to look deep and hard at all gov unions that are protecting poor performance, starting with the police union. It has a horrible history, it has exited throughout, it has no accountability, and it protects poor performance. And we can’t have that in the police force.

Interesting turn of events.....3 more officers have been charged. One is an Asian-American. How does this fit into the narrative that this is all about white people’s racism against black people?

Hmmmmmm.......I thought only white people are racist......thoughts amyone?

@Something to consider
Never read the entire autopsy report and have no idea how the civil trial will play out. Probably settle out of court which is SOP in most court cases, criminal and civil. Bet you have the answer before the trial even starts!

@Bryant Annenberg
Where is it written that police have immunity from prosecution? Just locally you have the Mehserle case. Yes, the same DA that we have now filed that case so she will file cases against police officers when justified.

Simple answer to your question; You deal with the threat until it is not a threat any longer. I know that at times it can look ugly and those that cross the line will get their just due. @Citizen has no clue as to how many officers are disciplined or how. He is just spouting the company line. The bad officers are usually weeded out pretty quickly.

Are you also TV trained in enforcement tactics? If not where did you receive your POST certification? As I suggested in another post, take a ride-a-long with a police department and educate yourself on the way of the streets. It may be an eye opener for you if you go in with an open mind.

Don't reply to this since I'm done!! See Ya

@Carl

Firstly, let’s just say that I am very familiar and quite knowledgeable regarding the Axon training for when and how to use tasers.

You’ve been called out as a fake. All your posts infer that you are or have been a member of law enforcement. The answer you’ve provided proves that you are the one who is a fake.

Axon Corp would NEVER suggest that their tasers we used “until it’s no longer a threat”

If you were in law enforcement, you were a danger to the public (those east oaklanders), yourself, and your fellow Officers.

@DH Dan

Immunity....

Agree

At the same time, we need to get rid of sovereign immunity

Bry

@Carl

Let me try my question in a different way: do you believe that the actions of PPD, justified or otherwise, were in any way significantly relevant to Mr Bauer's unfortunate demise?

And since you asked: I don't believe it will go to "trial" but, like you, believe it will be settled out of court, and for a much larger sum than the Deming case, in relation to which which the tax funded body cam's were turned off. But let's see...............

Something to consider, just like Wombat, is now interrogating forum posters. I wonder if they are the same person?

Why are they fixating on interrogating particular persons?

The good news is that with recent national events, this can only help the Bauer family's court case against the City of Pleasanton. In the Floyd case and the Bauer case, both situations happened initially in a grocery store.

Both men's lives tragically ended with both saying they could not breathe.

Mr. Floyd was pinned down by police officers, but Mr. Bauer had a mask placed over his head and a 'wrap' with various restraints. Mr. Bauer was also tasered at least twice.

The torture Mr. Bauer endured as he helplessly cried for help was twice as long as that happened to Mr. Floyd. Both happened in broad daylight and both deaths should never have happened.

@Bryant Annenberg
31 years, retired and enjoying the good life. :)
Cheers

Along with the 3 other officers being arrested and charged with aiding and abetting, the newly released autopsy shows Mr. Floyd also had recently tested positive in April with COVID-19:

Web Link

Wow. Here's a breaking story of national significance which is related to the George Floyd case:

The former Defense Secretary of the United States, a former Presidential Cabinet member who Trump himself vetted and hired as his Defense Secretary, has publicly come out and condemned Donald Trump, the President of the United States, as a threat to the US Constitution. THIS is a history-making event:

"Former defense secretary condemns Trump as threat to the Constitution" - CNN, 6/3/20

"James Mattis slammed the White House response to protests saying, 'we are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership'"

"...But Mattis directed most of ire at Trump saying "Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.">

CNN: Web Link
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Again, this is the former Secretary of Defense, a man who Trump personally hired. And as Donald Trump says himself, Trump only hires "the Best".

@Bryant Annenberg
[removed] I NEVER said you taser someone until the threat is gone. I said "You deal with the threat until it is not a threat any longer". I said nothing about tazing someone until they are not a threat, there are many ways to deal with a threat besides using a taser.

Fooled you, 31 years and not one complaint for excessive force. I still suggest that you do a ride-along to educate yourself. I assume you are old enough.
Cheers

Kate Steinle was killed by an illegal. The state of California, and in particular San Francisco, protected the illegals’ pretend rights. Every time the illegal murderer came to court they dropped another charge. The Steinle family never received closure. She apparently didn’t have ‘white privilege,' that many people talk about. No demonstrations for Kate, except for the illegal murder, no outrage, no riots, no looting, no rocks thrown, or buildings burned. There was no one for Kate except her family. Everyone went on with his or her day.

The Left is always making the statement: “We need a conversation about race.” Ok,lets start one.

There are just fewer than 800K cops in this country. Each day brings approximately 4.5 million contacts by police. Each day mind you. In 2018 the cops made around 10.3 million arrests for various offenses. They killed just less than a 1000 persons last year (2019). Most of those were white males. On average officers have killed twice as many whites as blacks. Officers killed by gunfire last year (2019) are around 48. Now you can query all this material, and these are averages to provide a context, but when all of this is taken into account I believe the officers do a hell of a job. Do they make mistakes, err, use an unauthorized tool, or violate a policy or procedure at times, of course they do. But unless your God, you can’t make the judgment that they did these actions under racism.

The death toll in the Civil War to free the slaves came at a cost by the Union Army at about 360,000 white men and boys. Many of them had no stake in the fight, but they died anyway. This country has come a long way since that time, and has fought racism every step.

America, despite what Black Lives Matter and Antifa claim, is not a racist nation. Contrary, read about the manifesto and the creation of Black Lives Matter. They are a Marxist, bigoted, hateful, racist people that want the police removed or dead. Look at who they have as supporters, and who is financing them.

Web Link

Web Link

Now, cops are being attacked and killed. It will continue. This really isn’t about George Floyed or a cop that violated policy, procedure and ethics; this is about politics, power, and the election. The Democrats have never spoken out about BLM or Antifa- ever. Their silence tells us a lot. They are running out of options and this ‘Black Swan’ (referring to the book the ‘The Black Swan’ by Nicholas Taleb) gives them something more to wave in the air and stir up hate, because they have pretty much leveraged the virus. Listen to what you are not hearing on mainstream and social media, or what you are not seeing for that matter. Commentary is nonstop on how Trump is the cause of this and that he is the racist. Mind you, he has done more for the black race than Clinton and Obama combined. The greatest President since Lincoln, but I am thinking Trump has it harder. He now stands at the line before the breakdown of society.

‘We need change,’ this is ‘systemic racism,’ we need ‘police reform,’ this country is ‘racist,’ and on and on. What do those terms really mean? What do they look like? Change what? Systemic how? Racist how?

BLM is silent when it comes to the illegitimacy rate of young black women, or the highest number of abortions of a single ethnic race. They turn their heads as countless high numbers of black on black shootings and homicides occur in the top major cities in this country, all run by Democrats who only come out and use them every 2 to 4 years. Lastly, BLM could care less about the educational failure of black students in the K-12 years.

I want our city leaders to reject the violence, looting, and destruction occurring in this country. I don’t want to see the leaders of our cities, police departments, and communities taking a knee with the very one’s that are destroying our nation. It looks like surrender to me. Is that what is occurring?

The mob keeps yelling to take a stand and take a side. I have. I am on the side of the rule of law.

People who should never have been police officers in the first place are roaming the streets with weapons in hand.

The militarized police are killing innocent civilians on a regular basis - black and white. In Minneapolis, a policeman of Somali origin fast-tracked through an accelerated police training program to bring diversity to the police force, shot and killed a white woman who was a veterinarian after she heard a woman screamimg and called 911 to report a possible crime behind her house.

The white woman who was shot and killed was Justine Damond and the police officer who killed her was Mohamed Noor. This was in what was considered a safe neighborhood south of Lake Harriet in Minneapolis.

During Noor's compressed training period, his fitness to be a police officer was questioned. Needless to say, he became a police officer in spite of concerns. Prior to kiling Damon, he had several complaints including one where he pulled his gun out and placed in next to a driver's head that he had pulled over for a routine traffic violation.

@ Carl

My question was specifically about the use of tasers...

Is it acceptable for law enforcement to stand over a person, handcuffed and laying on the ground; and for numerous Officers to deploy their tasers to the person?

@ Rachel Wysong

The letter came out yesterday.

What are your thoughts / reaction?

Bry

A spectacular failure & disappointment.

Didn’t anyone who signed the letter read the 1st sentence in Rachel’s request?

It requested that Pleasanton’s leaders denounce Police brutality.

That was the main point, and EVERYONE missed it.

Police brutality isn’t mentioned once.

Not taking a public stand against Police brutality speaks volumes.

Our City leaders & top managers had a great opportunity, and blew it.

If you have your grievances that you require that the city members denounce, than there better be a denouncement of ‘Black Lives Matter’ and Antifa added to that list. Anything less is pure pandering and politics.

Wombat,

"a man who Trump personally hired. And as Donald Trump says himself, Trump only hires "the Best"."

Oh come on!

I'm in a position that has required me to hire dozens of people. Every single person I've hired, I've considered the "best " of all candidates that I interviewed.

Guess what? Some of those (very few actually) turned out to be very poor performers comparing against their interviews performance.

Some people just interview better than others. They "hype" turned out to be a bust with regards to performance.

It happens, even in the top echelons of our Government.

That you cannot fathom this is remarkable given your claim to being a "scientist".

Dan