Hmmm....we can go to a packed Costco where people lean over you to get their precious toilet paper but we can’t go to beaches with fresh air or huge parks. Something isn’t right. We have 7.7 million people in the 9 counties being forced to shelter in place and only 1550 cases and 37 deaths...by this time last year we had more deaths from the flu ...and we have a vaccine for that. Being forced to stay in our homes is overkill and MORE detrimental to families in my opinion. We have all accepted the risk of catching it each time we go to the grocery store or pharmacy, yet we can’t go to a huge park....this is crazy:(

The Bay Area is was told this shelter in place was temporary, to let our 12+ east bay hospitals prepare...we started sheltering in place weeks before New York. I think we have done that, and all done our part ....to the detriment of MANY families and small businesses that made our town great. For most families this is a huge government forced burden both financially and emotionally....yet we can go around huge crowds at “certain businesses” just not others. Your risk of getting it is the same at a food store or work....probably less at work with social distancing. And Research says it’s a huge risk factor for death from this virus if you smoke or vape yet we are still selling cigarettes and keeping pot shops open as essential businesses. Insanity!

Well said Joy.

This whole thing is complete nonsense.

Yes, there are problems with some rules not making complete sense or being inconsistent with each other, I think that that's largely due to the fact that this is the first time that this country has ever been through a pandemic crisis like this, and officials are still trying to figure things out as we go along. I expect that when this is all over that there will be a lot of analysis and study of the various rules and strategies for dealing with this pandemic, and that there will be many lessons learned about how to improve our response to any future pandemics. For example, one simple lesson learned we have all learned is that if there is the threat of an oncoming pandemic, then all supermarkets should immediately limit toilet paper sales against hoarders!

Personally, I'm thinking that perhaps a better approach to dealing with a pandemic to a virus that is as threatening as the coronavirus would be to have a "two-tier" strategy in which younger people below the ago of 60 or so continue to go to work while taking precautions such as frequent hand washing while older people and those in poor health adopt more of a shelter-in-place posture. Such an approach would keep the economy going while at the same time protecting the most vulnerable from the virus. Virtually all the coronavirus deaths that I read about involve people who are over the age of 60 and/or have pre-existing health issues, so I think that an argument can be made for allowing younger people to continue to go to work in order to keep the economy alive. But this is just my two-bit opinion at the moment. I'm sure that many officials and health experts will be carefully reviewing the history of this health crisis when this is all over and coming up with recommendations on what we should do next time. I think that it's a given that they will say that many changes should be made.

Wombat, this statement proves you don’t read much...google search Italy, France, Spain.

“Virtually all the coronavirus deaths that I read about involve people who are over the age of 60 and/or have pre-existing health issues”

Here’s an idea - don’t go to crowded stores like Costco. .....there are other safer options.

You can all say this is overkill all you want, but that’s what the Italians and Spanish said and see what they are now up against.

This is serious- if you want to not believe it is - that is your right.

Just stay the heck away from me, my family and friends.

I truly hope none of the people who commented above catch or die from this disease. But it is the attitude that you and all the people who think this is a joke or a hoax that are going to be the reason things get worse than it should have been.

People will DIE because of selfish people like you.

@w-

Next time you want to try to refute one of my points, don't forget to bring your evidence.

"99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says" - Bloomberg, 3/18/20

"More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country’s national health authority."

Stay home and keep social distancing until told otherwise. It doesn't work unless we all work together. Go out if you need to get food or other essentials. Otherwise stay home. If you want to take a walk, jog, or bike ride, stay in your neighborhood. Yes it is a burden. It is a strategy to flatten the curve. We are trying to stop the exponential growth of transmission of the disease. It isn't what the number are today. It is what they will be 2 to 4 weeks if we didn't do anything. The hospitals and urgent care would be so overburdened in that case that people would be dying from appendicitis, treatable accidents, common flu, and COVID-19 because there simply wouldn't be enough people and equipment to treat them.

Do what is right for all of us.

"...But this is just my two-bit opinion at the moment. I'm sure that many officials and health experts will be carefully reviewing... "

And proposals like yours have been examined and rejected by experts in the UK and elsewhere basically because they can't make the numbers work where health care services won't be overburdened and many unnecessary deaths caused.

It's odd that a known risk factor for death from this virus is smoking and vaping due to the lung damage and yet we are still selling cigarettes and labeling pot shops as “essential businesses" Yet poverty and hunger is a risk factor for all and yet our government says restaurants are non essential businesses even with social distancing in place in the dining areas or in lines. You can catch the virus just as easily in line at the grocery store, yet we all accept that risk and go to those government chosen essential businesses. We have 7.7 million people in the Bay Area and have only had 37 deaths( sad yes, but we had more deaths last year from the flu...and we have a vaccine for the flu) The extreme shelter in place is unsustainable and for a lot of families MORE harmful than the virus with a death rate similar to other viruses we have seen in the Bay Area....SARS H1N1. Seniors are also at risk and the should STAY in the forced shelter in place. If you have already had it with mild symptoms, or tested negative at one of the many drive through testing, or are willing to do the social distancing at work we should be able to stop this government forced shelter in place by April 15 as we were told this is temporary. Bankrupting business and families is not a good strategy for our society, especially since this will come back year after year. And if you try to say oh by then we’ll have a vaccine, I will say we have a vaccine for the flu and more people died last year from the flu than this covid virus. Herd immunity is really the best answer at this point.

@BobB

Interesting. I don't know that such a "two-tier" strategy as described had already been seriously studied and considered. Do you have any references to articles or news stories about these studies? Thanks.

Please stop the fear based “projections” We have 10+ hospitals in just the East Bay to take non covid patients in emergency...Stanford valley care pleas, Stanford valley are liv, Eden, St. Rose, Washington, San Leandro, Oakland Alta bates, Highland, UCSF Beinioff, Oakland Sumitt, and numerous East bay Kaisers. We have tested thousands and treated them successfully. Our death rate falls daily in the Bay Area. We have the best medical system in the World and I am grateful and not buying into the fear.

Listen to the experts. Don't "do your own research" like an anti-vaxxer.

This is serious.

@Wombat,

There were multi-tier and geographic proposals and many others. I don't remember where I saw them, so I don't have links. I remember I was reading about modeling the spread combined with increased testing and the multi-tier strategy showed up. You might start there.

Bob, your no expert, sorry to burst your bubble. . Stop the fear mongering, it’s not helping anyone.

@Faith,

Neither are you an expert. Trust what the experts are saying. That is the whole point.

You're not helping helping anyone.

Read this:
Web Link

Regarding the comment about anti-vaxxers -- under no circumstances should any of them be allowed to be vaccinated when a vaccine is found. They are completely opposed to vaccines, for their own ridiculous reasons, so let them go without this one as well. You cannot pick and choose your moral ground.

@wombat

I was sort of surprised (but not really) that you demanded evidence to refute your claims that Corona only affects sick elderly people and the rest of us should go about our daily lives, when all you have to do is Google something besides FOX news and the facts are everywhere except on FOX.... but here your go:

" In Italy, the hardest hit country in Europe, almost a quarter of the nearly 28,000 coronavirus patients are between the ages of 19 and 50, according to data website Statista."

Web Link

@wbs-

OK, first of all, fella, you should know that I'm not a Fox News fan or a conservative. Any of the regular right-wingers on these forums who have seen my posts should be able to vouch for me on that. There's no one on these forums who has bashed Trump more frequently than I have (as the regular right-wingers on these forums have repeatedly pointed out to me). I'm a left-leaning Independent voter (or, in the opinions of the right-wingers here, a far-left radical Marxist nut whose aim is to destroy America).

Now as for the quote that you provided, it mentioned the number of Italians between 19 and 50 who were *infected* by coronavirus. The Bloomberg article which I offered, on the other hand, dealt with Italians *killed* (not just infected) by coronavirus. So we're talking about two different things. I never denied the fact that a lot of younger Italians were infected by coronavirus. Of course a lot of Italians, both young and old, were infected. My focus was on those Italians who died because of it, and as the Bloomberg article points out nearly all those who died from coronavirus had some previous significant medical condition.

It's been widely mentioned in the news that about 80% of of all those who get coronavirus display either only mild symptoms or no noticeable symptoms at all. For those people who are young and good health, that percentage is undoubtedly much higher. That was the basis for my suggestion about a "two-tier" strategy against coronavirus.

Read this please.

Web Link

Don’t forget. Last year a Trump disbanded the NSC Pandemic Unit and in February called the virus a hoax. Extremists are calling the virus an attempt to keep him from being re-elected, do you see how insane that is? The man has and continues to put you in harms way. Trump and FOX News And evangelicals are going to get a lot of people killed.

Ah....yes ....coronavirus Is trumps fault.....plan c or d for Dems election reversal?

More so now than later. Build the Pton Costco now! We need the
Food, meds, toilet paper! And more open space to shop , this is an essential service!!

"Covid-19 Mitigation is Not Vacation"

Then tell me WHY the airlines are STILL flying in/out of Bay Area Airports?

As I said in another blog, I'll believe they're serious about social distancing when they shut down air travel.

Dan

@DKHSK wrote “Then tell me WHY the airlines are STILL flying in/out of Bay Area Airports?”

If that’s your gripe then you should really be asking why Trump is allowing airlines to still be flying in and out of Bay Area airports. The Federal government has the power to declare an emergency and announce a partial or total shutdown of air traffic just like it did on 9/11.

I'm not buying all of this panic. I'm going to hunker down for a few more days and then I am heading out again.

Hey Genius (and you know who you are),

I was SPECIFICALLY pointing at the Federal Government with my comment, since they regulate airspace and airlines.

If I've said it once, I've said it 1000x: I call balls and strikes against BOTH parties.

I'm not much of a follower, like you.

Dan

DKHSK wrote "I was SPECIFICALLY pointing at the Federal Government with my comment..."

With your question “Then tell me WHY the airlines are STILL flying in/out of Bay Area Airports?”, you were "specifically" asking why the Federal Government hasn't issued a stop order rather than asking why the airlines themselves haven't stopped their flights? Really? Dan, with all due respect, I don't think that you understand the meaning of the word "specifically". Remind me to get you a dictionary for your birthday.

---
specifically (adverb):
1 : in a specific manner : in a definite and exact way : with precision
2 —used to indicate the exact identity, purpose, or use of something

Wombat is one messed up dude.

@Independent thinker,

Stay the heck at home. Stop trolling.

I have this awesome idea for fighting Coronavirus. We should all get into a local forum and argue over politics. That way, the incredibly well thought out ideas we post here will take the nation by storm. We just need some more left-right mudslinging, and change will happen! Keep up the great work! Not a total waste of time at all!

Regarding grounding of aircraft on 911:

Vice president Dick Chaney and Director of the CIA Leon Panetta from an underground bunker in DC, with Panetta on the phone to Chief of Air-Traffic-Control operations command center Ben Shney, Panetta was ordering Ben Shney to ground all aircraft, Shney apparently hesitating to follow the order, Panetta shouted to Shney get all the (Expletive omitted) aircraft on the ground now.

Shney followed through with that order and grounded al aircraft. It was Ben Shneys first day on the job.

"Not a total waste of time at all"

I have nothing BUT time, since they've shut down the economy.

Dan

Why the airlines are still flying.

Web Link

Ed, please, you make a fool of yourself parroting leftist lies that have been debunked repeatedly.
Let's start with who is responsible for being ready for a situation like this; it falls on the States. Each state has their own 'health/CDC' departments. Each state should be prepared. Why has no one, be it so called journalists, or everyday citizens, asked our governor, asked our county leaders, major city leaders or local leaders why they weren't prepared? Why is there a so called shortage of ventilators, hospital beds, safety devices? After 2009, I/we should have expected that the state, counties and cities would be prepared. But instead, they wasted money on social engineering welfare programs, cut hospital beds or did not keep up with population growth and failed to stockpile safety devices. What did they do in the last ten years? Absolutely nothing. Instead, they blame the Federal government, and expect money from the feds.
It's easy to go extreme and force shelter in place and shut the economy down; it's a win-win for the governor, county and city leaders because all they have to do is say, see we slowed the spread down and prevented deaths. In reality, what they're not telling you is, they're just kicking the bucket down the road to the next 'flu season', when more than 1/2 of our state's population will then NOT be immune to it, since their bodies immune system never had a chance to fight it. Because of these measures, California will be in the same boat for the next few years.

@Ben J.

Vacciate your children.

Oh for god sakes BobB...

Ok...so basically the bailout has ensured that the some airlines operate without a hit to their bottom lines.

But to my point regarding social distancing, there are fewer places where you are more susceptible to catching a virus than in a plane at 30,000 ft. Regardless of your distance to the next passenger. Geez...

My oh my, is common sense at a premium these days or what...

Dan