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Mutton bustin’ no more? County board narrowly supports ban on rodeo sheep event for kids

Original post made on Nov 4, 2019

A rodeo event known as mutton bustin' will soon be banned in Alameda County thanks to a Tuesday vote by the county Board of Supervisors.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Sunday, November 3, 2019, 2:27 PM

Comments (38)

24 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 4, 2019 at 9:32 am

James Michael is a registered user.

No fun of any kind. Why not just ban the whole rodeo and send the animals off to the meat packing plant.


26 people like this
Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 4, 2019 at 9:40 am

DKHSK is a registered user.

What a bunch of scolds we have as political leaders.

Thanks Democrats.

Dan


28 people like this
Posted by Rob
a resident of Kottinger Ranch
on Nov 4, 2019 at 10:26 am

What a bunch of idiots that voted to eliminate this event from the rodeos. My family has been in this valley since the 1800's. My cousin was the Grand Marshall of the first Livermore rodeo parade. Rodeo and Muttin Bustin is a tradition in this valley. All of us kids, cousins, brither and sisters rode sheeps and goats as kids and nobody not even the animals ever got hurt. Sure we got scuffed up a bit but it is a great tradition. The demographics of Pleasanton and Livermore are changing way too fast and we are loosing our culture. I say we ban cricket next...too dangerous with those balls flying around. These do good animal rights activists need to have their priorities in line and stop infringing on tradition. Can these idiots sight one time that an animal has been injured Muttin Bustin? I think not. [removed]


13 people like this
Posted by Eric Mills
a resident of another community
on Nov 4, 2019 at 11:26 am


UPDATE - Just for the record, it was Oakland-based ACTION FOR ANIMALS
(AFA) which first brought this issue to the Board of Supervisors last
year, after the HARD board betrayed the animals and their constituents on
this same issue, voting 4:1 for the status quo, to their ever-lasting
shame. Only Director Minane Jameson spoke up for the animals, to her great
credit.

The Board of Supervisors received numerous support letters per the request
of AFA, all in support of banning "mutton busting," "wild cow milking" (in
which a cow was killed at the 2014 Rowell Ranch Rodeo, leaving an orphaned
calf), letters from: Alameda County Veterinary Medical Association; Humane
Society Veterinary Medical Association (with 1400+ CA members); East Bay
SPCA; Ohlone Humane Society; Hayward Friends of Animals; Berkeley & Marin
Humane Societies; In Defense of Animals; Humane Farming Association; the
Animal Legal Defense Fund, et al. Plus hundreds of individuals. The
experts have spoken. This ain't rocket science, folks!

Be aware that Russ Fields, rancher and chair of the Rowell Ranch Rodeo
Committee, was recently interviewed by reporter Dan Noyes for a KGO-TV
segment. When asked if he thought animals feel fear, Mr. Fields replied,
"Feel fear? Nyaah, they're an ANIMAL!" The mind boggles. Adding insult to
injury, Mr. Fields three years ago told Allison Lindquist, CEO of the East
Bay SPCA, that he featured "mutton busting" for the very first time at
Rowell "partially as a thumb-in-the-eye of Eric Mills." (That's me.)
Lovely. Abuse animals and put children at risk, just to irritate the
animal activists. Is that REALLY "the cowboy way"?

The "mutton busting" ban is a good start. Even more problematic are the
"wild cow milking contest," and the various animal "scrambles" (pigs,
calves, chickens, rabbits, et al.) ALL these cruel and non-sanctioned
events should be banished. And in a truly HUMANE society, they would be.
STATE LEGISLATION IS IN ORDER.

Kudos to Supervisors Valle, Chan and Carson for their compassion and
leadership. Haggerty and Miley, please take note.

Sincerely,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland


17 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 4, 2019 at 12:00 pm

James Michael is a registered user.

Eric...you need to stay in Oakland. Maybe help clean up that mess there first.


8 people like this
Posted by Eric Mills
a resident of another community
on Nov 4, 2019 at 12:22 pm

Eric Mills is a registered user.

PARENTS BEWARE! See link below. A little boy in Texas nearly died after falling off his sheep and ingesting a mouthful of E. coli-infected dirt. He went into a two-week coma, swelled up twice his normal size, and suffered heart, lung and kidney failure. It's likely that EVERY rodeo arena in the world is infected with E. coli. The immune systems of very young children are not yet fully developed, putting them at great risk. Again, PARENTS BEWARE!
"Mutton busting" should be outlawed nationwide, as it was in New Zealand, per the recommendation of the NZ Veterinary Association, which deemed the sheep "not built to carry the weight."

Web Link


13 people like this
Posted by Eric Mills
a resident of another community
on Nov 4, 2019 at 2:03 pm

Eric Mills is a registered user.

NOTE TO JAMES MICHAEL, ABOVE: This was a COUNTY-WIDE ordinance. Last I looked, Oakland was still in Alameda County. Besides, animal welfare and compassion should not be restricted by geographical boundaries. As Gandhi famously noted, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Works for me!


15 people like this
Posted by B. J. Simpson
a resident of another community
on Nov 4, 2019 at 3:03 pm

B. J. Simpson is a registered user.

To teach children it is ok to sit on the back of a frightened animal in a noisy unfamiliar arena is wrong. Anytime animals are used in "sport" the animal loses. Just what does a child learn in rodeo? What life lessons like kindness, gentleness, respect are taught when a child is the superior being and the terrified animal is his or her toy?

Are people so stupid and unimaginative that they cannot think of other games?


10 people like this
Posted by Kindness to animals
a resident of Del Prado
on Nov 4, 2019 at 7:40 pm

Kindness to animals is a registered user.

What an awesome step to creating a more compassion community toward animals. Thank you supervisors Valle, Chan and Carson for realizing that animals sense pain and fear!


1 person likes this
Posted by Pleasanton Parent
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Nov 4, 2019 at 8:02 pm

Pleasanton Parent is a registered user.

Rob,
I agree the demographic is changing and that’s bringing new challenges to our community to balance historic culture with, what I’m assuming you’re pointing to a very traditional, Indian culture (I’m guessing you’re not referring to an unknown British influx), but I think your frustration in those issues is misdirected with this specific change.
Now on this specific activity, I’m not too sure I’m opposed to this so long as it’s not taking away other rodeo events. I guess, I don’t see this as a 4H development activity, vs some of the other rodeo events.
I do understand the loss of a long line of family tradition is difficult, so I get it. And unfortunately the motivation behind the interest group is probably not to address just this one activity but to slowly dismantle the entire event , no matter how many adjustments are made; and that is wrong


4 people like this
Posted by Kristina V
a resident of Harvest Park Middle School
on Nov 4, 2019 at 9:20 pm

Kristina V is a registered user.

The mutton busting ban is a good start. Banning the buck-strap is a must since this strap is tied so tightly around the groin of the horse or bull, this is what actually makes them buck due to the fact they are IN PAIN. Animals should NEVER be used for entertainment ESPECIALLY when they can be hurt and ARE hurt. Last year, a horse was euthanized after her neck was broken during a rodeo event. Also, an animal rights group caught Rowell Ranch Rodeo organizers electrocuting (illegal animal cruelty) animals to get them all riled up. I know a lot of farmers and cattle ranchers who do not support the rodeo because they would never subject their animals to the abuse that ensues at the rodeo events. My grandfather was a farmer and rancher from Wyoming who despised animal cruelty. The rodeo would be great if it was just humans dancing, singing, and sharing stories, but these "so-called" cowboys and cowgirls (most are not) just like to dress up, get drunk and rowdy, and subject animals to humiliating and cruel "stunts" for their machismo ego trips. Animals are not OURS, and they certainly do not exist on this planet for the subjugation and sick entertainment of a few lost people who think this is "cultural." As soon as tradition turns cruel, IT SHOULD END as a tradition. Ya'all can still get drunk, ride each-other, and call it a "rodeo." STOP riding innocent animals who just want to be free and in peace! For people who are new to living in the U.S. please know this is NOT a "tradition" that most Americans participate in. I am a 4th generation Californian (our family has been in the Bay Area since 1900), and we do not support most rodeo events because of the animal abuse and deaths that occur at the hands of exploitation and profit. Rodeos are BIG money makers for local organizers. Remember, Animals are NOT ours to exploit for profit and entertainment.


4 people like this
Posted by Eric Mills
a resident of another community
on Nov 4, 2019 at 10:27 pm

Eric Mills is a registered user.

Three Supervisors voted to ban "mutton busting": Valle, Chan & Carson.

Two voted for the status quo: Haggerty (who represents the Livermore Rodeo area), and Miley (who represents the Castro Valley area & the Rowell Ranch Rodeo). As if their NO votes weren't bad enough, they both further embarrassed themselves with some truly inane commentary in the newspaper articles. We (and the animals) deserve far better.

All may be written c/o Alameda County Board of Supervisors, 1221 Oak Street, Oakland, CA 94612.

EMAILS:
richard.valle@acgov.org (president)
scott.haggerty@acgov.org
nate.miley@acgov.org
wilma.chan@acgov.org
keith.carson@acgov.org

NOTE: Supe. Haggerty is retiring early next year. Supe. Miley is up for re-election in 2020. WOULDN'T IT BE WONDERFUL TO HAVE FIVE BOARD MEMBERS, ALL ADVOCATES FOR ANIMAL WELFARE? Please campaign accordingly.


4 people like this
Posted by Grumpy
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Nov 5, 2019 at 6:16 am

Grumpy is a registered user.

Meh.

My first reaction—especially after reading the breathless comments that essentially amount to “animals are people too”—was that the ban does seem designed by a group wanting to punish the rodeo out of existence. I still suspect that.

However, after looking up a more unbiased analysis, it does seem that this isn’t a pony ride on a sheep, as the sheep are not trained to tolerate the ride but instead are running specifically because they have no idea what’s happening.

I think if the sheep were trained to not be scared but instead to want to toss the kids for fun—and yes, sheep are somewhat trainable at least to the matters of fear or familiarity—then that would have been okay.

So, it leaves me to wonder if the ban bans riding sheep entirely, or riding them untrained and uninspected.

Also, Castro Valley should just incorporate and throw off the county for things like this.


18 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 5, 2019 at 8:13 am

James Michael is a registered user.

Eric Mills...putting the animal rights thing aside, your real message is clear. If someone doesn't vote your way then they should be campaigned against and removed from office so everything can go your way, Ah, the sign of a true fascist. Why don't you just initiate a recall, take a lesson from your pals in D.C. One party rule, dissent will not be tolerated, get on board or get out. Maybe you're not a fascist after all...but you are a communist.


2 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 5, 2019 at 9:04 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

I want to commend Mr. Mills and others for a reasoned, thoughtful set of comments to this article. Our elected officials have simply concluded that our right to be slightly entertained is over-balanced by the affected animals' right not to be terrorized - and the kids' opportunity to be raised with humane regard for our fellow species on the planet.

Animals are not human, but that does not mean that they are devoid of the right to humane treatment, nor that we homosaps don't owe them a stewardship obligation that comes hand-in-hand with our right of 'dominion.'

It's also true that we're all gonna die, but that does not mean that the conditions of both our lives and our eventual demise do not matter. They do.

The objections expressed here are knee-jerk reactions, not well-considered opinions. Indeed, they reflect a disinterest in bothering to think about the full range of issues presented, or what we stand-for as a community. They seem to belie a preference for dismissive 'othering' - as in those Oaklanders or Dems or liberals. Too bad for them - since the ancient Greeks it has been well-known that 'an unexamined life' is wasted.

Thanks County, and especially the compassionate commenters above who helped make this happen.


1 person likes this
Posted by Grumpy
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Nov 5, 2019 at 9:35 am

Grumpy is a registered user.

I think that some of the comments have been othering, but not the important ones.

If the sheep can do this activity without being scared out of their mind, then I don’t se a problem with letting them do it.

After all, they’re sheep. People are called “sheep” for being stupid followers for a reason. Sheep can have fear when getting shaven. They run from sheep dogs. But I wouldn’t call those behaviors abusing or even unkind. And I have no problems using sheep for our entertainment. Nor do I have problems using them for my dinner.

If the concern is specifically that these sheep are being provoked into a full panic because they are not accustomed to the lameness of having a small children on their backs, then I’m not totally in love with the act and think they should get the sheep accustomed to it and instead train the sheep to run for another reason.

But I’m unwilling to see sheep as slaves being hounded abusively. It’s not right to project fully human feelings onto an animal as dim as a sheep. They can feel pain, and they can feel panic. But if they instead feel annoyance or boredom or pure reward desire, then I’m happy with their treatment.


2 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:08 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

Hey G - I agree that we should not 'anthropomorphize' other species - they are likely not identical to our human sensibilities. Frankly, that process tends to undersell certain of their superior abilities and senses, as well.

Often, when my dogs react in ways I don't understand, I later learn it's because they've sensed things that are beyond my dull and sight-prone approach. I do know that the more we learn about them (finally), the 'smarter' 'they' become - certainly pigs, and maybe even sheep and bovines are much more sentient then we can imagine in our ignorance and preoccupations. Our current treatment standards horribly under-developed, to their detriments, in my view.

There's a really good memoir called "Putting the Horse Before Descartes" that I've found useful. In it, vet prof Bernie Rollin applies the concept of "telos" - that is, as he puts it: "that fish gotta swim, and birds gotta fly" - meaning that what we owe to other species is to allow them to express their essential natures. I am not expert in ungulate behavior or essential nature, but I am willing to bet that it does not include being force-ridden around a ring for the amusement of others.

That's enough for me, without having to delve into their possible 'annoyance' or 'boredom' (which are dreaded human conceptions, after all). And YMMV, but to me humane lessons beat inhumane traditions as far as raising our own offspring is concerned.


3 people like this
Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:32 am

DKHSK is a registered user.

Eric Mills,

Are you vegan or vegetarian?

Dan


3 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 5, 2019 at 11:21 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

Hey Eric - you don't need my help, but just know that the poster above is famous for the attempted 'Gotcha Q.' He will hound you 'til you answer his shallow inquiry - first accusing you, triumphantly, of ducking the issue, and then if meat has ever kissed your lips he will scream "Hypocrisy!" It's the kind of simple-minded gamesmanship that generates heat-but-not-light, and it has gotten him banned from some other sites in this network.

You see, consistent with telos, I believe a human can consume meat that has been Humanely Raised and Slaughtered, in the same way that I have committed to donating organs and corneas for other people's use when I'm done with them. We're all gonna die, and if we've lived well, it's okay to use the leftovers.

Now, you should note that nowhere in this comment have I indicated whether or not I eat any meat - it's NOYFB. Let the bleating begin!


2 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 5, 2019 at 11:32 am

James Michael is a registered user.

That's interesting, C Paine, where has DKHSK (Dan) been banned? "Other sites on this network"...what network and what sites? I'm really curious because I never heard this before.


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Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 5, 2019 at 11:40 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

The Raucous Caucus.


2 people like this
Posted by pcuvie
a resident of another community
on Nov 5, 2019 at 3:31 pm

pcuvie is a registered user.

James Michael – campaigning against a politician you don’t agree is called democracy. Facism doesn’t allow campaigning because there is no election, like N. Korea, which would be happy to let you immigrate there if you don’t like democracy. What’s happening in DC is not a “recall” it’s an impeachment, which is the constitutional duty of our Congressional reps if they believe our president is in violation of the law, which he consistently seems to be, as, like any good Facist, he thinks the law doesn’t apply to him.


10 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 5, 2019 at 7:05 pm

James Michael is a registered user.

pcuvie...campaigning against a politician you don't agree with during an election is called democracy, but trying to shame them for their vote on a public forum is not.
The impeachment process is initiated when the person in question is being charged with a crime. The recall can be initiated to remove an official before his/her time is up.
And if you think that the congressmen/women in D.C. are doing their duty then you have been asleep in class.


Like this comment
Posted by Grumpy
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Nov 5, 2019 at 8:13 pm

Grumpy is a registered user.

Whoa, what a weird discussion this has become.

Dogs hear better than us, see worse, and lick themselves a lot. I suppose it’d be cruel to kick them for doing so, but that doesn’t mean I need to respect it.

I like being human. We’re better than sheep. They’re sheep. They’re not me, they’re meat.

I’m okay not tormenting them. I don’t think it’s awesome to even harass them. But if they are scrambling with a kid in their back because they find it weird and want to toss the kid, and not because they think they’re in the maw of their demise, then I’m okay with that too.

Remember, squirrels run under tires as an effective strategy against animals and a poor one against cars.. I’m sad to see them die but I’m not advocating closing roads.

So far, what I’ve heard is people thinking that sheep are amazing, sensitive, attuned creatures, when in fact they’re pretty stupid and less interesting than goats, who are well known to eat your belt and call it a four star dinner.








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Posted by Grumpy
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Nov 5, 2019 at 8:22 pm

Grumpy is a registered user.

On the other hand, shaming a politician you don’t agree with on a public forum is entirely a democracy. Sorry, James.

In defense of Dan, he’s annoyed and expressing it. He can be a troll, but so can we all at times.

That being said, in the end I’m okay with them wanting to run elected officials out of office and being vituperative towards them. I love free speech, and it’s at its zenith when applied to politicians.


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Posted by pcuvie
a resident of another community
on Nov 5, 2019 at 8:49 pm

pcuvie is a registered user.

James Michael – So now, after playing fast and loose with the term “facist”, you agree you were wrong, and concede Eric Mills is not a facist for wanting to campaign against a politician to remove them from office because he doesn’t agree with them, and such campaigning is democracy not facism. Good to know that a reasonable argument can change your mind. However, now you are taking the position that Eric “trying to shame [a politician] for their vote on a public forum is not” democracy. Shaming a politician on a public forum is the essence of Free Speech, protected by our First Amendment because it is essential to our democratic process. “The First Amendment reflects ‘a profound national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open.’ That is because ‘speech concerning public affairs is more than self-expression; it is the essence of self-government.’” Snyder v. Phelps, 131 S. Ct. 1207, 1215 (2011). It "was fashioned to assure unfettered interchange of ideas for the bringing about of political and social changes desired by the people." Meyer v. Grant, 486 US 414, 420 (1988). “To many, the immediate consequence of this freedom may often appear to be only verbal tumult, discord, and even offensive utterance. These are, however, within established limits, in truth necessary side effects of the broader enduring values which the process of open debate permits us to achieve. That the air may at times seem filled with verbal cacophony is, in this sense not a sign of weakness but of strength.” Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 24-25 (1971). “The remedy for speech that is false is speech that is true. This is the ordinary course in a free society. The response to the unreasoned is the rational; to the uninformed, the enlightened; to the straightout lie, the simple truth.” US v. Alvarez, 132 S. Ct. 2537, 2550 (2012). That Americans don’t understand our democratic process and what constitutes free speech, and the value of free speech to our democratic process, is why we have a president that trashes our democratic process and our constitution on an almost daily basis.

FYI -the impeachment process begins by investigation as to whether or not the President may have committed a crime to decide if and what charges should be levied. That is where we are in the process at the moment. That is absolutely the constitutional duty of our Congressional Reps. Impeachment is not a recall. A recall is a recall. I don’t believe we have a recall option with our president, but we do with that option with our governor.


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Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:00 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

Citizen Paine,

Hello Tom, I see you have another sock puppet account, eh? What, "Dogfather" was used up?

Dan


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Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:01 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

Hey Tom,

If anyone should be a vegan or vegetarian, it should be you.

Sincerely,

Dan


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Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:17 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

James Michael,

"Citizen Paine" is Tom Cushing, he used to blog on PW until Trump won.

Tom's anger towards me started when I outted him as a sock puppet commenting under the name Dogfather. He admitted it. I was commenting under my old name, Mykellie.

Tom also claimed he lived in Danville but was outed as living and blogging from somewhere in Nevada.

Those two facts are all you need to know about Tom' integrity.

To say we tangled a lot is an understatement.

I kinda miss his writing as I could use his predictions as a sort of reverse barometer. He was ALWAYS wrong.

Go back and read some of his blogging and you'll see what I mean.

Now back to the topic at hand...

Dan


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Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 5, 2019 at 10:54 pm

James Michael is a registered user.

Thanks Dan, that's actually funny.
And pcuvie (does the pc stand for politically correct)...I don't agree I'm wrong, that's your opinion. And referencing a number of law decisions doesn't sway me at all. They're simply decisions rendered by a court and they may be right or wrong...they are not right just because the court says its so. Remember Roe v Wade is wrong.


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Posted by pcuvie
a resident of another community
on Nov 6, 2019 at 12:03 am

pcuvie is a registered user.

James Michael - Facts are facts regardless of whether you agree to them or not. The facts, as establish by your comments, show you flipped your position - i.e., you were were wrong - and acknowledged it.


2 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 6, 2019 at 6:53 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

[rolled-eyes emoji] CP was already registered to comment here - has been for years. No messy re-registration required. But who cares? There's no story there.

Outing a commenter is meaningless, and doing so while writing under your own alias is something that the real DHwhatever would find ... hypocritical. Who are you, really?

Most recent RC dates from earlier this year, not 2016. There are more than 300 of them - so read-on. There may be a few more in the tank as we approach 2020 - a few folks have told me they miss 'em (who knew?) - stay tuned.

You earned your ban, many times over, by consistently trying to turn the Comments into your personal 'lookatmee!' ego-fest. It was tiresome. Nothing seems to have changed in that regard.



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Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 6, 2019 at 8:44 am

DKHSK is a registered user.

And by the way, Tom, >I< miss your writing. I really do.

Only one of us has the capability of being COMPLETELY honest with others on theses threads...

...and here's a hint...

...it 'ain't you.

Dan


11 people like this
Posted by Dave G.
a resident of another community
on Nov 6, 2019 at 8:57 am

Dave G. is a registered user.

Well, here we go again with ELECTED officials playing the Nanny again on activities that people enjoy. Give me a friggin break........
THIS is why folks can't stand politicians.. Seems to me the County has way more SERIOUS issues to deal with like Drugs, Homeless folks, Crime, Taxes, housing costs, ILLEGAL aliens, doing away with useless programs, CUTTING costs that are killing residents, Fighting back on the highest taxes in the nation, crazy DMV fees, etc......... How about this one: County to contact losing Presidential candidate Jr. Senator Harris and ask her to pull out of race, and get her rear end back to Ca and DO HER JOB here in the state. Can you say HOMELESS situation that is bringing/causing disease, drugs, human waste, rats, AND huge costs to taxpayers or worse to our state.


3 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 6, 2019 at 11:24 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

Did I mention that "Nothing" seems to have changed?

It hasn't.


7 people like this
Posted by DKHSK
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 6, 2019 at 4:25 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

What the heck happened to Eric Mills?

So courageous when it comes to defending sheep...but after just a few questions, he vanishes.

Dan


4 people like this
Posted by James Michael
a resident of Val Vista
on Nov 6, 2019 at 6:54 pm

James Michael is a registered user.

"What the heck happened to Eric Mills?" And that is a good question, Dan. Maybe he's out rescuing cats or politicking with "pcuvie" and pretending that political attacks are actually democracy in action. Isn't that what the left does best?


9 people like this
Posted by Citizen Paine
a resident of Danville
on Nov 7, 2019 at 6:08 am

Citizen Paine is a registered user.

... or maybe he's said his peace and recognizes a bad-faith, time-sucking ambush when he sees one?

It's kind of sweet that you boys found each other. Why, you can cut-out the pesky middle man and stab at strawman caricatures all.day.long.

Carry on, fellas.


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