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Original post made on Mar 27, 2019

Injury inflicted on us all

Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, March 22, 2019, 12:00 AM

Comments (19)

12 people like this
Posted by Laurie Herbert
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 27, 2019 at 11:27 am

The solution to gun violence is simple

Prior to Sandy Hook, I had no strong feelings about guns other than I didn't want one in my home. I respected the 2nd amendment and figured it was an important part of our Constitution. However, after 20 precious babies were slaughtered at Sandy Hook, I decided to do some research. Honestly, I figured that other countries had the same problems with mass shootings ---- after all, our country is the best in the world---right? But I was hopeful that perhaps one or two countries were figuring out some solutions. I did some simple Google searches and spent the next few hours with my jaw repeatedly hitting the floor. By searching "gun deaths by country", I found that our per capita (per 100,000) gun death rate is one of the highest in the world, only surpassed by a handful of Central and South American countries. I found out that the rest of the world HAS figured this out, and that children in those countries are significantly safer from gun violence than children in the USA. Here are a few stats:

U.S. per capita gun death rate: 12.21
Canada: 2.05 - 1/6 of ours,
Mexico: 7.64 - 3/5 of ours,
Costa Rica: 6.3 - 1/2 of ours,
France: 2.83 = 1/6 of ours,
Australia: 1.04 = less than 1/10 of ours,
United Kingdom = 0.23 = less than 1/50,
Japan = 0.06 of our gun death rate.
The correlation between strict gun laws and low gun death rates is universal. Individuals can still own a gun in ALL of those countries . . . they just have more hoops to jump through.

The solution is simple --- we need more hoops. Any responsible, mentally stable prospective gun owner will be happy to jump through the hoops necessary to protect our children and our community. What is happening now is not acceptable. More children are killed by guns than are police officers and military personnel. I am now a proud, active, educated member of Moms Demand Action for Gun sense in America. I strongly support and am actively engaged in bringing about new gun sense legislation, both at the state and the federal level. In the recent midterms I worked on two elections for winning gun sense candidates.

When I joined Moms Demand Action, 93 Americans were being killed by guns per day. One year ago at the March for our Lives, the count was 96 per day. Now we are close to 100 per day. We have a great deal of work to do and I intend to spend the rest of my days working to save lives. Join this crusade!

Laurie Herbert
Pleasanton, CA


2 people like this
Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 27, 2019 at 12:33 pm

MichaelB is a registered user.

"The solution is simple --- we need more hoops. Any responsible, mentally stable prospective gun owner will be happy to jump through the hoops necessary to protect our children and our community."


The reply is really simple Laurie. No, they would not. Why not? Because they have been repeatedly lied to by gun control (not "safety") activists about supposedly respecting the 2nd Amendment (which they do not) and know the number of "hoops" will steadily/substantially increase from the "Moms" demands until it becomes either too difficult, too expensive, or against the law for the average person to own a gun.

Look no further than Washington DC before the Supreme Court got involved. The "gun sense" crowd controlled the debate/got their way legislatively and everything for the law abiding was banned. All of the firearms vendors were run out of business in Pleasanton about 20 years ago by Ben Tarver and city council for doing nothing wrong - because of so called "safety" reasons. Pleasanton was(and still is)a safe city and had no problems with firearms abuse. It's all about blaming society for what criminals do and the "fewer the guns, the better".

"Gun violence" is a political term. Firearms do not commit acts of violence. Amazing that those claiming to have "sense" on this topic have trouble figuring this out, think it is some kind of "disease" that "infects" people, and want to blame everyone/everything for firearms misuse - except, of course, those people actually responsible for it. That is not acceptable and it will continue to result in more violence regardless of the weapon(s) used.


17 people like this
Posted by BobB
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 27, 2019 at 1:15 pm

BobB is a registered user.

Of course what Laurie Herbert says makes sense and we need to be making it harder for anyone to own weapons, whether they are "law abiding" or not.

I would take it a step further and say we need to take a close look at the second amendment, and see what we can do to fix it or eliminate it. It is out of date.


21 people like this
Posted by BobB
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 27, 2019 at 1:18 pm

BobB is a registered user.

@MichaelB,

"Gun rights" is a political term. Firearms don't have rights.


2 people like this
Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 27, 2019 at 2:14 pm

MichaelB is a registered user.

"Of course what Laurie Herbert says makes sense and we need to be making it harder for anyone to own weapons, whether they are "law abiding" or not."

Exactly what makes sense?

Mass shootings in this nation are rare, the average person purchasing/owning firearms has nothing to do with them, criminals on the streets of our cities will not care about/comply with new "sensible" regulations, and the predictions of "wild west shootouts" from gun control advocates after more states issued permits for people to carry guns never materialized. Why didn't we have more mass shootings when guns could be purchased through the mail/with no background checks?
Of course you have no explanation for any of this.

Sounds like you need to take a step further and think a little more on this. The emotionally based "guns cause violence" claims don't hold up under closer scrutiny. It also sounds like Laurie is just trying to impose her "strong feelings" about "no guns in my home" views on everyone else - and then claiming they somehow "don't care" about children/community if they happen to disagree. Thankfully, this is still a free nation where people can make their own choices vs. you making them for us.


10 people like this
Posted by Doug
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 28, 2019 at 7:55 am

@MichaelB :”Why didn't we have more mass shootings when guns could be purchased through the mail/with no background checks? Of course you have no explanation for any of this. “

Yes, there is a simple explanation, MichaelB: Gun availability is not the sole factor responsible for mass shootings. Obviously, society has also changed over the decades. But it’s pointless to talk about trying to turn back the clock on that, is there? This is the world that we live in today. This is the world that we have to deal with.

As for your claim that mass gun shootings are “rare”, well yeah so are plane crashes but no one is clamoring for eliminating aircraft and pilot safety standards and closing down the FAA, are they? The fact that mass gun shooting occur as frequently as they do in this country shows that there is a lot of room for improvement in doing a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who would commit such acts. You can be sure that the next time that you read the news headlines about a new mass shooting, odds are that it will have happened in this country - again.


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 9:04 am

MichaelB is a registered user.

"The fact that mass gun shooting occur as frequently as they do in this country shows that there is a lot of room for improvement in doing a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who would commit such acts. "

In this case the "improvements" being proposed by people who claim to know better are firearms bans/confiscation schemes - for those having nothing to do with them. How long did it take for gun "safety" advocates to claim we "needed" to do what New Zealand did to prevent mass shootings? Or that the entire Parkland incident was supposedly the "fault" of the NRA and assault weapons regardless of how many times Nikolas Cruz was let go/not stopped by law enforcement?

Want to do a better job? Address the mental health connections with those carrying them out, providing treatment before they do, or if necessary have them involuntarily committed. Prosecute people who actually violate federal firearms regulations. Get involved with young people to keep them out of the criminal justice system/off the streets.


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 9:18 am

MichaelB is a registered user.

"Yes, there is a simple explanation, MichaelB: Gun availability is not the sole factor responsible for mass shootings. Obviously, society has also changed over the decades. But it’s pointless to talk about trying to turn back the clock on that, is there? This is the world that we live in today. This is the world that we have to deal with."

It's not "pointless" at all.

We can expose the "progressive" social experiment of everyone being a "victim" of something/society being to blame for things going wrong as a miserable failure. And vote the people out that promote/want more of it. Otherwise, expect more uncivilized and violent behaviors in our society regardless if guns are involved.


8 people like this
Posted by Doug
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 28, 2019 at 9:34 am

"Want to do a better job? Address the mental health connections with those carrying them out, providing treatment before they do, or if necessary have them involuntarily committed."

Yeah, we've all seen conservatives talk and talk and talk about "addressing mental health connections" but when the rubber hits the road, we find that that it's nothing more than talk:

"Donald Trump Revoked Obama-Era Gun Checks For Mentally Ill Law"
Fortune Magazine: Web Link


6 people like this
Posted by Doug
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 28, 2019 at 9:40 am

@MichaelB :"It's not "pointless" at all. We can expose the "progressive" social experiment of everyone being a "victim" of something/society being to blame for things going wrong as a miserable failure. "

Yeah, right, you think that society's clock can be turned back through the ballot box. BTW, no use trying to blame "progressives" for all these shootings. Most of these shooters are right-wingers, including the recent New Zealand shooter.


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 12:17 pm

MichaelB is a registered user.

"Donald Trump Revoked Obama-Era Gun Checks For Mentally Ill Law"

Not quite.


Web Link


7 people like this
Posted by Doug
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 28, 2019 at 1:01 pm

@MichaelB

OK, the author of the article you linked (who I see is a Fox News contributor) claims "President Trump simply reversed an Obama-era policy that stripped the Second Amendment rights from Social Security recipients without due process.". OK, for the sake of argument, let's accept that the policy was flawed because it didn't allow for proper "due process".

So assuming that the lack of "due process" was a sincere objection to the Obama-era policy, when Trump and his administration reversed this Obama-era policy did they

(a) introduce a new, improved policy which instituted gun checks for certain classes of mentally ill people while at the same time ensuring that their right to "due process" was recognized? OR did Trump and his administration
(b) simply let the whole matter drop and forget about it?

You tell me.
And, remember, you were the one who urged the following, which also reflects the words (but not actions) of many other conservatives:
"Want to do a better job? Address the mental health connections with those carrying them out, providing treatment before they do, or if necessary have them involuntarily committed."


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Posted by Michael Austin
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 7:30 pm

Anonymous posters have no credibility!


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 9:55 pm

MichaelB is a registered user.

"Yeah, right, you think that society's clock can be turned back through the ballot box. BTW, no use trying to blame "progressives" for all these shootings. Most of these shooters are right-wingers, including the recent New Zealand shooter."

Yeah, right, everything is fine "as is". Let's do more of the "blame society" and "stop the NRA" stuff from the progressives - and it will eventually get better! It is indeed a crisis when people are shot on the streets of Oakland daily and the DA thinks this feel good gesture "to end gun violence" is the "spotlight" on what is being done to keep residents safe.

Web Link


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 28, 2019 at 10:28 pm

MichaelB is a registered user.

"So assuming that the lack of "due process" was a sincere objection to the Obama-era policy, when Trump and his administration reversed this Obama-era policy did they

(a) introduce a new, improved policy which instituted gun checks for certain classes of mentally ill people while at the same time ensuring that their right to "due process" was recognized? OR did Trump and his administration
(b) simply let the whole matter drop and forget about it?"


Here's what is being considered:

Web Link

An infinitely better solution (though some will oppose) that respects the Constitution/due process.

Compare that to the poorly thought out (but predictable)response from a major political party/its supporters as it relates to dealing with mass shootings - bans on firearms in common use, mandatory turn in programs for the law abiding,frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers for the actions of criminals, banning gun shows at the Cow Palace, blaming the NRA, etc. None of these identifies/isolates a person who could be a threat and stops him/her before carrying it out. It just blames guns and anything associated with them.

You tell me why should do what the so called "gun sense" supporters want instead.


8 people like this
Posted by Laurie Herbert
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 29, 2019 at 4:57 pm

Red Flag Restraining Orders are an excellent strategy to help prevent gun deaths! My understanding is that Moms Demand Action is thrilled that Senator Graham is participating in talks to try to bring these about. We have a lot of work to do to bring down the death toll from guns, but Red Flag Restraining Orders and Comprehensive Background Checks are a great place to start!


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Posted by MichaelB
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Mar 30, 2019 at 10:32 am

MichaelB is a registered user.

"We have a lot of work to do to bring down the death toll from guns, but Red Flag Restraining Orders and Comprehensive Background Checks are a great place to start!"

How? These plans are only going to make a difference if a person purchases a gun legally and/or displays behaviors other observe and then report them to authorities.

The "great place to start" would be the major problems we have right now on the streets of our cities (Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis, etc.) where thousands of people are being shot/killed every year (more than mass shootings) by those who choose to deliberately misuse guns, may have history of doing so,and obtain/possess firearms illegally. What kind of work is being done to address this problem - other than blaming the "gun lobby" for it taking place/telling the law abiding their property needs to be made illegal?


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Posted by wow
a resident of Apperson Ridge
on Apr 1, 2019 at 7:00 am

Laurie please explain how your proposal would have Kate steinle still alive today.
Second are you for banning or stronger controls on illegal immigration?
I think it we did that then maybe kate and many other law abiding americans would still be alive. Where do you stand Laurie.


5 people like this
Posted by Doug
a resident of Birdland
on Apr 1, 2019 at 12:19 pm

@wow

Illegal immigration is a separate topic.


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