Uhhh, Michael has it occurred to you that we actually need all those government employees in the TSA, Air Traffic Control, FBI, Center for Disease Control, US Secret Service, US Border Patrol, etc., etc.? In addition, your claim that all government furloughed employees can “easily be absorbed” into American businesses this year is inane because you’re totally ignoring the fact that are job skill mismatches.

You're right Michael. There aren't enough planes falling out of the sky. Explosions are FUN!!!

@Michael,

They're working without pay. If you kept those agencies shut down indefinitely, they eventually would stop functioning. Look at Doug's list. Do you really want to live without any of that?

Yes, there are several functions working without pay and others that arent working. So i agree you cant point to this as a sustainable model. But i think their is real reason to question whether those government functions not working without pay should remain gov functions if they are non essential to running the gov.

Compainies are forced to become efficient through competition, nothing "competes" with the government to force efficiency gains. Gov can still set policies and enforcement, but do they have to also administer? No. Especially for functions that really arent running right now

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Well I for one believe most of the above organizations can be reduced in size and scope and improved. The FBI needs to be completely rebuilt based on the rights of the citizens and not government spying on its citizens. TSA is currently a joke and needs to be privatized. I would be willing to bet that 90% of TSA union employees could not cut it in a private organization. My brother is an air traffic controller and he says its not like the old days and is mostly computer controlled and automated and he says it should also be privatized. Let's face it. Our government, local, state, and federal is bloated and not effective.

@Pete

Guess that you don’t remember that we did have a privatized airport screening and security system - and it failed miserably on 9/11. Hence, the reason that airport screening is now under federal control and we have TSA.

Doug,

I also remember walking my relatives to their gate and watching them take off and when they came to visit we were by the gate when they got off the plane. My dad brought me a shotgun back from one of his trips and it was in the overhead bin. My point is times change and so should TSA. They have not improved since 911 and it should be automated with the latest technology and we should profile individuals for advanced screening like they do in Canada, Japan, and Israel. Yes times have changed and we need to evolve with them or go the way of the dinosaur.

Doug - weren't you the one pointing to the 3 responsible parties in the other thread regarding Kathryn Steinle? If so, there you were advocating for focus on the upstream breakdowns, here for 9/11 you're focused on the downstream breakdown?

The problem to solve with any government entity is how is it driven by the environment it executes in to improve (survive) without competition? There is no natural force creating pressure for efficiency gains.

I'm only hopeful that when all this nonsense in D.C. is settled it can serve as a teaching lesson that will wake enough people up to the realization that out of the 800,000 government employees currently furloughed there are probably 200,000+ positions that are truly non-essential, redundant or simply there as a perk to a district on behalf of their representatives in congress. If you're really honest with yourself I truly do not see how ANYONE (other than the furloughed workers) can say their lives have been adversely affected by the shutdown. It simply illustrates the bloated, overly bureaucratic and thoroughly wasteful nature of how our tax dollars are spent and mismanaged.

@Pleasanton Parent :”If so, there you were advocating for focus on the upstream breakdowns, here for 9/11 you're focused on the downstream breakdown?”

I have no idea what it is that you’re trying to say.

Helen,
I have been greatly inconvenienced by the shutdown and so have a few others I know. Just because it hasn't caused you any disruption doesn't mean anything.

PP,
Government efficiency can easily be improved in many, many areas by simply buying new computers, you know, the kind that don't run on MS-DOS and take 20 minutes to boot-up. Unfortunately, conservative tactics for the past 40 years have been about only one thing....defund every department and when it can't perform the duties well enough, complain about it until it's privatized. The government can be very efficient if given the money to buy the tools needed to do the job. Look at our military. Very efficient, can do anything with very few people because they have had the money to buy the latest tools.

Stop complaining about the government already and stop being so damn greedy. You have a good life. Appreciate it.

@Helen,

I think you may have missed the part about working without pay. If all the ones working without pay quit, you would notice in a hurry.

Robert,
What government office/program is running ms-dot computers and tried to get upgraded to recent technology with a tangible roi that was rejected by conservatives in order to convert to private industry?
Would love to see that case study. Please provide. Ill wait.

Veterans Administration. There's one quick answer for you. One of many.

Here's what a quick google search found...you can do this too, but I guess you only search for what fits your agenda.

Web Link

.....and where is your evidence of claim? Come on, you were so quick on it. Where did they show a tangible benefit by investing in computer systems from ms-dos to something newer that was rejected by conservatives in order to privatize?

They reduce the IT budgets every year. Public info. Google works at your house too.

Still waiting Robert.

Your article is 2yrs old and actually states active update projects underway.
No mention of conservative blockage for privatization as well.

Swing and a miss.

Didn't you say everything should be privatized? Where did you get that idea from?

Conservative media outlets. There. I'm not waiting for you anymore.

Strike 2.

You didn't come up with it all by yourself. Conservative media has been beating that drum since the 1970s when it adopted the Milton Friedman economic theory.

I'm starting to feel you owe me money for the free education I'm providing you but I believe in free college so I'll give you a break.

Strike 3. Youre out.

Haha! You spent too much time on the baseball diamond and not enough in the classroom. Here's the smoking gun Jimmy, how the GOP is gutting the post office.

Web Link

I love how you "Like" your own comments. Very sad, and yes, I can tell.

Robert Adams, are you a Pleasanton weekly employee?

No sir

PP,

Now you're just being silly.

Robert,
I'll give you a hit on that one, even though its 3yrs old. Granted it has nothing to do with your initial claim of MS-DOS and 20 min boot ups or defunding a department (they actually forced funding union pensions albeit beyond what other government offices were required to do).

Due to repeated violations of our Terms of Use, comments from this poster are automatically removed. Why?

Come on PP... Where is that great American entrepreneurial spirit you keep talking about? You can give a man a fish to feed him for a day or you can teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime. I'm sure you've heard that one. Make google your fishing rod. Google "outdated govt computer systems" or something like that, and see for yourself. Why do I have to feed you?

Robert,
You brought forth the claim, you have the burden to prove it. "Google it" is not evidence of a claim. Youve still failed to support your claim, albeit ill give you credit for finding something kind of close via the post office.

Oh wait, you did have another article..... that actually stated investments were taking place.

Maybe while your searching you can help answer AOC answer her question about whether we need billionaires....the irony of this coming from her of course is answered in her proposal to pay for programs with higher tax brackets on the ultra wealthy....math suggests the answer to her question would be yes. Maybe google has a better answer for your messiah.

PP,

Outdated govt computers has been the topic of many discussions over the years, in forums, on TV, radio, etc. Didn't think it was a controversial claim at all. I simply made the connection between outdated tools (PCs) and lack of efficiency. I thought it was common knowledge but I guess we are more divided than that. Oh well. Maybe later we can argue about the color of the sky.

According to a new analysis from S&P Global Ratings:

"Lost productivity from furloughed workers and weakened economic activity during the 35-day partial government shutdown cost the U.S. economy $6 Billion".

That is $1 Billion more than what Trump wanted, to build the wall!

I doubt Trump will create another shutdown February 15, 2019. I expect we will have a slew of executive orders, designed to build the wall, probably get a hint of that strategy in the sate of the union.

The market will resolve itself, it will get back to normal, the economy will continue to bustle.

Michael Austin: VIA log in access by way of pope john.

Hmmm...so over 300k jobs added to the economy in spite of the gov being shut down.

I wonder how well the economy will perform if Trump shuts down the government again when congress doesn't give him the wall?

I guess we'll just have to wait to find out.

MAGA

The government wasn't shut down. People were working without pay.

"The government wasn't shut down. People were working without pay."

And yet somehow...we survived.

Exactly as I predicted.

Its never to early to be on the right side of history, Bob.

Dan

@Dan,

They were working without pay. That isn't sustainable unless you are suggesting we go to an all volunteer government.

Still hoping Trump resigns. Did you see George Will's recent column regarding Trump's presidency? Do you agree or disagree? Any specific agreements or disagreements?

No doubt many of the furloughed federal works joined the regular work force that boost the new jobs numbers.

Bob,

My point is that I read on these comments and numerous articles and blog posts from the left and right (never-Trumpers) that the shut down was going to DOOOOOOM the economy and after all the scare tactics...nothing.

I did read the most recent GW in WAPO about how Trump needs the Democrats to win. Is that the one to which you are referring?

I think there might be a slice of reality to it. What I sense is that the electorate is fed up with Trumps promises to build a wall and not following through. I think he made a grand bargain at some point to pass his tax bill first and to have those votes to remove the ACA mandate in exchange for holding off the wall until after the last election. That was a tactical error when the house was retaken by the dems.

I suspect when the 3 week deadline comes to pass he will move without congress and fund the wall and all will be well. However, I think the Republican senate will lose more members in 2020 due to their inaction from the past.

I also think the Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who's not been seen in the last 44 days, is nearer the end of her career. I think Trump will get his 3rd pick before the end of his first term. If he wins a second, I suspect he'll get 1 more with Souter.

To me, the packing of conservatives on the court is the most important political issue he has to win.