Stop trying to marginalize other posters who are only exercising their right to express an opinion. It is disgusting.

Who is "marginalizing"? I am giving this democrat a platform to "elevate" her views! A soapbox. A spotlight. An opportunity to broadcast her anti-capitalistic views!

You are, as if another poster here needs you to frame their views in language that they didn't use to "elevate" it. You have no interest in discussing another poster's views. Your only motive is to portray a fellow American as holding fringe views so that others also write her off. It is people like you who will really destroy America, from within, by targeting fellow Americans as if they were criminals. You're the real criminal to do so.

Stacey,
Are you trying to silence me (a very democrat-thing to do). Where's your "uber tolerance"?

If Janna is proud of her anti-capitalist views, I am merely inviting her to display them for others to learn from. You see...I do not understand why people have such disdain for our economic system. This is a opportunity for her to explain to me and others what it is that she hates about our economic system...and more importantly...what her preferred alternative is. What country has the ideal economic system, in her opinion? This is an instructive opportunity for all readers of PW.

She should actually "thank" me for this "invitation" to expound upon her leftist views. Just think how many other democrat recruits she could win over...if she convinces them that our free market system is so terrible.

Stacey - I don't recall you being outraged at others attempts to do the same thing to me and other conservatives here?

To me, the marginalize charge is a bit fraudulent, as it is applied selectively. Few "regular" posters here will and fewer of the anons will defend their positions. You are an exception. Janna is one of the worst offenders.

She is not alone. Like many others, she will criticize corporations, the GOP, conservatives, and it seems freedom in general, but cannot explain why. Her particular brand of hatred for the free market and capitalism is what is disgusting, to me.

Chris,

If marginalization is such a "very democrat-thing" to do, why on earth are you doing it yourself against others? I did use the language of marginalization against you in my last post to illustrate it. If you don't like it done to you, don't do it to others.

Sorry Stacey...I view it as opposite of marginalizing. I am inviting her to communicate her political and economic philosophy.

BTW: Janna...did you notice that Stacey called you "fringe" ? Pretty demeaning! (I don't think you are fringe at all. In fact I believe your views are of the average Obama voter. That is why I invited you to explain your views.)

jimf01,

When you characterize criticism of something as overall disdain (such as Chris has done), you're not really working towards fixing anything. Without criticism, a system cannot become better as the problem areas cannot be identified. Oftentimes on this forum there is criticism of the current administration and Congress. I see no one here interpreting your criticism as disdain of the bicameral system, of the three branches of government, etc. You love America just as much as Janna.

Well, Chris, I'll have to paste what you wrote:

- ""Janna," whose views are extreme left, stated her disdain for America's free market system"

- "Since Janna she dislikes American capitalism so much"

- "to hear the views of someone who dislikes American capitalism so much"

And where exactly did Janna state that she doesn't like America, that she doesn't like capitalism, that she disdains the free market system? And how did you come to the conclusion that Janna is "extreme left"? And whatever drove you to single out another poster, to take a post out of context and frame it in a negative way, then invite others to join in? Yes, YOU, Chris, are marginalizing a fellow American.

Now now now, Stacey. There you go. Why did you make such an issue out of my "invitation" to Janna? I think that since such an issue has been made, we've scared her off. Probably stagefright.

Perhaps she should call in reinforcements from the left to help her explain her anti-capitalist views. You game, Stacey? How about other anti-capitalists?

Chris,

Feign innocence and continue to call it an "invitation". What is this, high school? If you were honestly concerned and wanted to have a discussion with Janna about her views, you would ask if you could meet her in private and share a cup of coffee instead of putting on a show.

Stacey,
You may have revealed a problem. Yes, it is 'high school' where views extolling the virtues of capitalism are not discussed...and the opposite is promoted. Same in college. Hence the American education system produces hoards of liberal leaning idealists who extoll the virtues of socialism and its very close allies of marxism and communism.

So I am not surprised in Janna's views. Nor yours. I am merely trying to shed sunshine on her views for others to react to and learn from.

Unlike the majority of democrats who want information suppressed from the public (hey, I am still waiting to read about Obama's college and grad school records, his various social security numbers, his law firm clients, etc.).

Janna...help us out here. Be proud of your beliefs!

Wow, another faux “invitation” from the far right . . . this time to discuss how well the free market works! LOL!! Frankly, I’ve been enjoying the far right spin on another thread regarding the closing of the NUMMI plant in Fremont. Now there’s a perfect example of a free market correction of a business that wasn’t making it in the free market . . . again . . . and yet, all you righties are spinning away because there was no corporate bailout to save that specific plant . . . or, gasp, could it be just any excuse to bash Rep McNerney??? Even if it does seem to go against your often posted free market principles??

NUMMI, which was of course originally built as a GM plant in 1962, went out of business for two years under Pres Reagan (1982-1984) due to poor productivity, poor quality and labor problems. Toyota came in and saved GM in 1984 when the plant re-opened as a joint venture with Toyota. In 2009, GM once again went under due to piss-poor management, filed for bankruptcy and withdrew from NUMMI. GM was TARPed, and Toyota, as we all know, had difficulties of its own and had to close the plant this year.

Now the plant is re-opening, once more thanks to Toyota, on a smaller scale as a Tesla/Toyota plant. So, instead of using this as an example of how the free market is supposed to work, those against Rep McNerney are using it as an excuse to complain that he should have engineered a corporate bailout specifically for NUMMI.

LOL!!! Interesting! I thought all you righties were against bailouts . . . oh, that’s right, it’s only the disappearing middle class and the poor that shouldn’t be “bailed out” with affordable health care or unemployment insurance that all of us who worked have paid into for years in hopes of never having to use it. On the other hand, heaven forbid that the wealthy should pay the same in taxes that they paid under that iconic conservative Pres. Reagan, or that corporate bailouts shouldn’t be engineered in your backyard!

Now go ahead, spin away . . . try to marginalize me by posting how you "true American patriots" who have vowed to "take your country back" from the rest of us evil <insert your favorite derogatory term here> are just trying to save "your" country from anyone who has the nerve to disagree with your opinions. I enjoy watching you spin!!

hmmmmmmmm...seems to me a few meat heads are trying to split Stacy off as a bad object...you failed! eeh eeh eet, eeh eeh eet...

ps get a life baldy...

Chris,

You want to know my views? I'll tell you my view. I think you don't know anything about the free market, capitalism, or how it works. I think you've been deluded into believing that if the government leaves business alone, then suddenly there will be jobs created here. I think you turn a blind eye to both the GOP and Democrat's poor _regulation_ of the US economy for the past three decades that has lead to job flight. I think you may even work at a job here that creates jobs in China.

I "invite" you, Chris, to explain Germany to everyone. Or didn't you know that resource-poor Germany is number two in global exports after China, they're growing their economy, and they still have all those socialist programs? Or explain China, ever a perfect example of the economic results that occur when government sets policy favorable to business, using capitalism and free-market principles to beat America. Web Link

Do you like that American jobs get created in China? What are you going to do about it, Chris? Single out your fellow Americans like Janna?

And let me add, that the unemployment benefits issue are yet another short-term feel-good measure that masks the real issue. Sure they'll stimulate the economy for the short-term, but it is debt spending. The unemployment benefits get passed and then what? What is Congress going to do about the long-term? If business just goes and creates jobs in other countries, it doesn't matter if we give corporate welfare to business or not.

"there's a perfect example of a free market correction of a business that wasn't making it in the free market "

laughable, Toyota pulled out because Pres Obama, with the silent assent of Pete Stark, Jerry McNerney and Nancy Pelosi, pulled GM out of the joint venture when Obama took over GM, fired the CEO and decided which plants and dealerships would close.

Obama then gave the equity position to the UAW, and when it was time for a plant to reopen, the first one was in VP Joe Biden's home state. These are all documented facts.

In 2006, NUMMI produced 420,000 vehicles for Toyota and GM Web Link

"Once it reaches full production at the NUMMI plant, Tesla expects to produce 20,000 electric vehicles each year, which will sell for $50,000."
Web Link

I will say Rae was right about one thing, it is a smaller scale!!! That better be one NICE electric vehicle to outsell, say corvette, high-end Benz, Lexus and other models

go ahead and point out Rae, where it is that I or any commenter here "complained that Jerry McNerney should have engineered a corporate bailout specifically for NUMMI?"

If taking our country back from the progressives involves marginalizing you Rae, then marginalize I shall. Cholo I am not worried about, he marginalizes himself.

Personally, I don't think unemployment benefits do much to stimulate the economy as a whole. Those on unemployment are really lucky if the benefits they receive cover rent/mortgage, utilities, food, home/car insurance (maybe) and gas. Forget about health insurance. Forget about money left over to buy unnecessary things like the kid's sports, new clothes, the latest novel, a ball game, or even go to the movies.

The only thing unemployment funds help stimulate are big banks (mortgages), big oil (gas), big utility companies (PG&E), big insurance (car/home) and big corporate stores (groceries). So even on unemployment the little guy is helping corporations earn those big profits so they can pay those big salaries and bonuses.

America right now is like a boat in the middle of a stormy ocean. One side holds the food and the other side has the paddle. Both sides are trying to make the other walk the plank. If one side goes over, so does the food. If the other side goes over, so does the paddle. Imagine where they take the boat if they stopped trying to get rid of each other and instead took an honest interest in their predicament.

Rae, I knew you don't have stagefright to state your anti-capitalist views! Thank you for joining this digital anti-capitalist party!

Regarding your example of free market and the auto industry, it is certainly accurate that auto industry execs have made mistakes in reading their customers and providing what they wanted. However, keep in mind that your example using the auto industry for a free market failure breaks down in at least two ways...

1. Excessive Government Intervention:
Burdensome federal and state regs CAFE standards have made it virtually impossible to compete with non-US car companies in the US. It should be noted, however, that GM was succeeding in selling cars outside of the US! Web Link

2. Auto execs bowing to unrealistic Union demands.
Unbelievably generous contracts to union members were agreed upon by execs. So the price of US autos included thousands per vehicle just for union benefits.

Sidebar issue...did you know that the CAFE standards imposed upon US automakers has caused thousands of DEATHS!

How many deaths have resulted? Depending on which study you choose, (see link here >>> Web Link ) the total ranges from 41,600 to 124,800. To that figure we can add between 352,000 and 624,000 people suffering serious injuries, including being crippled for life. In the past thirty years, fuel standards have become one of the major causes of death and misery in the United States -- and one almost completely attributable to human stupidity and shortsightedness.

So Rae...the auto industry is not a great example of how the free market works given so much government regulation prior to the bailout. However, even if failing auto companies were allowed to fail...they'd declare bankruptcy and restructure to become more profitable.

That's the free market.

"JimF01" said: "If taking our country back from the progressives involves marginalizing you Rae, then marginalize I shall."

LOL!!! Ahhhhh, JimmyF01, still pi**ed because I used your own references to show how Mr. Harmer's shady past political and financial practices in Utah as a finance, campaign and chief of staff for disgraced Rep Greene Waldholtz will absolutely not be good for CD11?? Web Link

Nice try, but here’s a tip for you . . . You will never be able to “marginalize” me with words (sticks and stones!). Your candidates may win every other election cycle and get our country into more wars, feed corporate greed and kill the economy and the middle class, but there’s always another election coming up. And I never miss a chance to exercise my right to vote, because it’s my country too!!

Chris said: "it is certainly accurate that auto industry execs have made mistakes in reading their customers and providing what they wanted."

I don't think I'm too far out of line when I say that most auto customers want a reasonably priced product that doesn't fall apart the minute you drive it off the lot. That's why makers like Toyota and Honda have done so well here, in America. And while Union contracts may have had a lot to do with the pricing of the product, I lay poor quality at the feet of the executives who put profit ahead of quality. Too bad both Toyota and Honda got caught up in that profit-at-all-costs American capitalism trap!

Quality and safety are frequently sacrificed for profit no matter what industry/corporation you want to talk about. Big oil? Big oil spills with no way to cap/clean them up because the documented procedures don't work. Big banks? Toxic assets, need I say more? Big insurance? Heaven forbid you have a pre-existing condition or get really sick!

Billions and billions of dollars of profit on the backs of the disappearing middle class because that profit isn't put back into the economy generating jobs. Nope, it goes to executive salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes.

And so it goes, substantive issues are yet again ignored in favor of distraction by trivialities.

But I am finding the humor in noting that Chris thinks auto industry regulations do not apply to non-US car companies operating within the US even though Chris' link says otherwise.

Gee, Stacey, was that meant for me?

Rae,

Not really. It wasn't you doing the ignoring. I do think you allowed Chris to lead the discussion though. Chris doesn't really understand economics, the free market, or capitalism. If Chris wants a better example of the free market, look no further than no-rules Somalia.

Stacey said: "I do think you allowed Chris to lead the discussion though."

Ah, Stacey, true in this case. I tend to get caught up in unemployment and corporate greed since both have struck close to home in the last few years. Both my daughter and son-in-law have lost their jobs to part-time employees that their employers didn't have to pay as much or provide benefits for. They ended up losing their home and the family (including 2 kids) moved in with me in my little 2 bedroom, 0-lot line, "affordable by design" home I bought here in 1990.

Luckily, I was able to retire in 2001 (before the market tanked due to 9/11) pulling out my 401K that I religiously paid into for many years. I had/have a tight budget with little left over each month. But, between my retirement, their unemployment benefits and the part-time jobs they grabbed while still looking for full time work that will provide a livable salary/wage and benefits, we're surviving. Good thing we like each other most of the time!

You're absolutely right about "America right now is like a boat in the middle of a stormy ocean." And as long as the politicians continue to work hard at keeping their job instead of doing their jobs, and corporations put astronomical profits before everything else, I think we're stuck!

To both Rae and Stacey,

Let's get back to my original questions...

1. What do you dislike about our capitalist system and ... more importantly...

2. What is your preferred alternative to our capitalist system...and which country(-ies) do you find ths type of economic system?

Rae,

You got most of the NUMMI thing correct but let me correct a couple of inaccuracies. When GM went bankrupct the business was divided up between old GM and new GM. NUMMI was originally put into the category of new GM by the automotive executives. Obama and his administration played with the two different pots and amoung other things moved NUMMI from new to old and thereby forced 5700 at the plant to lose their jobs. I personally believe that the reason was that he wanted to go after Toyota in support of his union admirers. The evidence of this is that a few months later the "unintended acceleration" problem surfaced and then the senate hearings where Toyota executives were basically attacked by democratic members of congress. It was all over the papers, internet, and news for awhile. Did you hear that last week Ray Lahood released the governments own results of the tests on 50 black boxes involved in crashes and in all 50 cases the drivers had the gas pedal pressed to the flow and never touched the brakes. I bet we will see a hearing with the democrats apologizing to Toyota soon......yes right.

Lastly, Tesla will not even be heard from in a couple of years. Us taxpayers gave them $275,000,000 one year ago and they have already gone through it. Tesla has been in business since 2002 and has never come close to a profit. I am an independent and these are the facts.

1. I dislike that Chris doesn't understand capitalism.
2. I would prefer that Chris stops reading American Thinker blog posts and picks up a book written by experts on the subject, perhaps by those Liberal economists Von Mises or Hayek. It would be vastly more productive than finding ways to marginalize fellow Americans. Web Link

No Rae - I am glad you brought these items out, because as we are seeing in the Dem talking points exhibited on this board and others, the Dems have little to brag on themselves, we see new stories every week about how Democrats are running away from Obama's record.

Jerry McNUMMI certainly isn't coming out to give speeches about how he voted for health care reform, supported cap & trade, and votes with Nancy Pelosi and the progressive caucus better than 95% of the time.

Find a recent photograph with Jerry McNerney and Nancy Pelosi? I cannot find one. Find a recent announcement of a public event with Jerry McNerney featured? Except for the recent womens veterans event (outside the district), each time the Congressman has shown his face in the district in recent days, most recently Sat evening in Tracy, he doesn't seem to want to publicize it. I wonder why?

Now we have 99 days to go before Jerry McNerney loses his seat, and the Harmer smears have all been thrown out there, now we have a youtube posting rehashing the same items, next we will no doubt see DCCC TV commercials reiterating these once again. They will all go for naught.

"JimF01",
LOL!! "the Harmer", huh? Is that a new nickname for your favorite candidate? Oh, wait, I probably took that out of context. I was laughing so hard because it seemed to fit! And I know how you anti-Rep McNerney posters love your nicknames . . .

Seriously tho' . . . Why is it that righties love to point out how Congressinal Democrats vote in blocks, but always ignore the the Republican voting blocks behind Sen. McConnell and Reps. Boehner and Cantor?

Johnny,
I didn't see any report last week from the Dept of Transportation and you didn't provide a reference. I don't know, but it seems to me that if the problem is the gas pedal stuck to the floor, and the brake can't override it, that's still a problem with the gas pedal . . .

I did see, however, an April 19, 2010 DOT report where "Toyota Motor Corporation agreed to pay a $16.375 million fine – the largest fine permitted by law – for failing to notify the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) of a dangerous pedal defect for almost four months." Web Link

Chris,
As far as capitalism goes, you can't really support a pure capitalistic system where everything is privately owned and the owners hire who they want, when they want, for whatever minimal salary they're willing to pay with no benefits required, no regulations for even safety at a minimum, can you?

and that's it for me for today. have a good eve one and all.

WSJ article on DoT analysis

Web Link

Stacey,
I expected a pompous response from you and you did not disappoint. I'll bet that with your pompous attitude, you're very popular socially. (Not). That's probably why you spend 90% of your waking hours on the computer.

Rae,

as requested here is your link showing the results of the tests as being reported by the Wall Street Journal. The brakes do override the accelerator pedal but the brakes must be applied for that to happen. The results of the black boxes show that they people had the accelerator pedals pressed to the floor thinking they were on the brake. You cannot engineer out stupid completely.

On the fine issue? Toyota realized it was a witch hunt by the democrats in the government to help their interest in unions, GM, and Chrysler so just decided to pay it. 16 million is not a lot of money. When one sees things happening like this then you know we are being led by deceit.

Again, let me know when Harry Waxman and McNerney scheduled the televised congressional hearings where they apologize to Toyota and the american people.

Rae,

Sorry here is the link.


Web Link

Rae,

read the comments at the bottom of the article some are a hoot!

have a nice evening everyone.

Chris,

What's wrong, Von Mises or Hayek is too hard for you to read?

Ah, that's why you let American Thinker do all your thinking for you. You needed Cliff Notes to do reports.

I am entertained easily by this site Rarely post anything. Seeing the comment that Chris wrote about Stacey "That's probably why you spend 90% of your waking hours on the computer" really made me LOL.

Yes indeed, I don't know how, when, why that is possible. But Stacey sure does spend a lot of time posting.

Stacey....less would be more.....

IMHO, "Stacey....less would be more.." Bite me...okay, I am being facetious. IMHO, you miss the point, it's ALL about making statements.

You go, girl...

Looks like the former chairman and CEO of Intel corporation has a problem with free market capitalism as currently practiced in America too. Interesting reading. Looks like he would be more inclined to support McNerney's protections for US workers than Harmer's hands off approach.

Web Link

What do you think Jim and others? Does he hate America too?

An Observation:
Nearly 300 posts on this thread at this time and still no democrats have suggested a better economic system than capitalism. Nor has anyone indicated which country has this "ideal" alternative to capitalism.

And all I hear about from democrats like Rae and Janna are complaints about "greed" of private sector executives. They confuse "greed" with "self-interest." Further, the true examples of "greed" occur in government. The greed for power and wealth are rampant in the Obama Admin...as in other totalitarian governments.

Patriot,

That article is exactly the conversation I had the other day with a relative. I bet that relative had read it...

Dublin Mike

Effective communication is not "all about making statements"

Your sense of self importance is way overstated....

the less you talk the more you are listened to......I pass over your comments more then I read them........you are too easy to tune out cause you, like Stacey, are always posting.

"less is more" makes any post more engaging.

Effective communication requires the messages to be receive so it can be be processed.....and perhaps change minds...but if you are constantly "talking" then I suspect you are not listening (the other half of successful communication.)

there is a good reason you, like the rest of us, got two ears but only one mouth.......

Dublin Mike and Stacey constant chatter on this forum =ZZZZZZZZzzzzzz


you go girl? works only IF that's the case............

Chris,

"Our fundamental economic beliefs, which we have elevated from a conviction based on observation to an unquestioned truism, is that the free market is the best economic system -- the freer, the better. Our generation has seen the decisive victory of free-market principles over planned economies. So we stick with this belief, largely oblivious to emerging evidence that while free markets beat planned economies, there may be room for a modification that is even better. "

Read the article I posted above.

IMHO, you rarely post here so that must make your post _really_ effective. And I mean that. Does that work with school homework too?

"IMHO",
LOL!! It's all in your perspective . . .

Complaining about the frequency/effectiveness of Stacey and DublinMike's postings falls into the same category as complaining about the Congressional Democrats voting together . . . the only complaints come from those who don't agree with any Democratic vote . . .

Funny, those same posters never complain about the GOP voting block (pun intended), or other frequent posters on this forum from the right who blame every problem in America on the current Administration, Congressional Democrats, and anyone on this forum who expresses an opinion left of far right. Oh, and let's not even talk about those posters whose form of communication is to cut and paste entire articles from right wing websites as their opinion . . .

See, it's all in your perspective! LOL!!

Johnny, DCOT,
Thanks for the references. I'll be interested in seeing the final report since only prelim findings have been unofficially mentioned and "It is unknown how many data recorders NHTSA has read so far. The agency's investigators have been reading the data only since Toyota provided the agency with 10 reading devices in March."

I also noted that "the findings—part of a broad, ongoing federal investigation into Toyota's recalls—don't exonerate the car maker from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: "sticky" accelerator pedals that don't return to idle and floor mats that can trap accelerators to the floor" which is why they received the fine.

Stacey: you are right...I rarely post....

To answer your question.... Works only if you actually think homework and effective communication are the same thing. Last I chekced they weren't.

keep posting and re-posting,and re-posting etc (ZZZZZZZzzzzz) on every topic/every comment etc...it dilutes anything of substance you have to say and only serves to nurture your sense of self importance

and thats too bad...because I am sure you have some good points to make

Chris - that's 300+ 'views' (not posts). Note that a 'post' requires a 'view'.

DC...I caught my glitch one second after I hit the 'submit' button. However this PW board, unlike many others, does not allow editing. Thanks.

Chris,

Any comments on that link I provided?

Uh huh, another post. *yawn*

Patriot,
I just printed it out and will read later. Busy today. Looks like a good article. I'm in the startup world. Will reply later. Thanks.

BP is claiming a ten billion tax credit based on the losses they've experienced after paying for the gulf disaster. Capitalism, FTW.

IMHO, oh were you here? Sorry, I speed read your comments too...

At least I give jim01 and Chris the benefit of the doubt, even when I read Chris making a ludicrous comment such as "still no democrats have suggested a better economic system than capitalism." How myopic can you be?

Jesus Christ on a cracker! I'm off here for a few days and this happens.

Chris, I'm sorry that my unfavorable opinion of the free market rocks your ideology in a way that makes you dedicate a whole post to me. I'd be flattered, but really, it's just creepy. You ask for my views, and then you re-posted my last post addressed to you on another thread. I reread it and I think it explains my views very plainly. If you choose to put words in my mouth, so to speak, I can't stop you, but you only make yourself look foolish.

Get a grip.

Wow...our local celebrity!

We are all waiting with baited breath to hear what your preferred alternative is to free market capitalism.

And...the country that has your preferred economic system is ....(fill in the blank)... ?

Chris, really - it is just creepy.
And just for the record, I did not "bait" my breath...

FYI,
Not nearly as "creepy" or more accurately...diabolically destructive...as what the leftists (of which Janna is a full-fledged member) is doing to America.

If conservatives do not register significant 'wins' in November...then our free country is lost. And on that note, if you do not understand this...then that is beyond creepy...it is a fatal mistake to our country.

That gives you license to be creepy?

To Chris, who sees the world only in black and white and if you're on the wrong side, you are the enemy. I'd like to introduce you to your fellow Americans, the rest of us, who are tired of your ideologically-based decision making: Web Link

"WHO ARE MODERN WHIGS?

Established in 1833, the Whigs are one of America's oldest mainstream political parties. We were the original party of Abraham Lincoln and four other U.S. Presidents.

Revived by Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, this grassroots movement has quickly attracted thousands of new members. We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Republican and Democratic ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy. This Washington DC-based national movement values common sense, rational solutions ahead of ideology and partisan bickering.

This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and educational/scientific advancement."

Web Link HERE'S A SPECIAL STORY FOR CHRIS!

I know that this story will make many Plutonians HAPPY!

To answer the question, "Where's Janna?"; the real answer is who gives a big rat's behind.

I sure wish the military would reinstitute the draft, so the northward migration to Canada (not Dublin) would get into full swing. So long, thanks for being a resident of P-Town.

A draft would make citizens more interested in how the country was run rather than the latest Mel Gibson rant tape.