Re: Inactive/Returning Catholics

Been there, done that. Tried RCIA and returned to the Church for a few years, but nothing had really changed from the 1960s.

Found a much, much better fit at United Christian Church in Livermore, a partnership church of the Disciples of Christ and the United Church of Christ.

In both denominations...

We have married pastors! How about that, Rome?

We have woman pastors! What do you say, Leo?

We are Open and Affirming! We support every individual (Love thy neighbor as thyself) and we voted NO on 8, while the hypocritical RC Church supported YES on 8.

Oh, and what about that monstrosity of a "cathedral" in Oakland? What a waste of money.

I was born and raised catholic but left the church a long time ago. I do not agree with many items such as the celibacy thing.

I also was not going to put my kids through sunday school, with all the sex abuse scandal and how the church turned a bling eye to it, how can any parent feel safe about their kids anywhere near a priest?

I was raised Catholic attended Catholic schools, I had some of the meanest nuns you could ever meet. I wanted to baptize me children Catholic and the priest would not do it because the God parents were not Catholic. So I went to my husbands church and have been there for 27 yrs. My husband would never go to the catholic church so my changing ment we could go as a family and to me that is very important.

I left the Catholic church twenty years ago and haven't missed it. Catholicism is stuck in the Middle Ages, despite the modern architecture and occasional modern music at some masses. Their polices on women, priesthood, marriage, homosexuality, ANY-sexuality, etc. were out of date in the twentieth century. If this religion survives the twenty-first, it's going to need to make several large steps forward.

Keep your bitterness to yourselves!!! This was a simple advertisement for those who ARE interested, not an open forum to slam another religion.

Don't be so defensive, Mister Triple-exclamations. Clearly some posters have some negative associations with the Catholic Church, but no one is being uncivil.

Given the recent disclosures of rape and torture of deaf children and others by Catholic clergy, the Catholic church may have to be held accountable for crimes against children before it's flock returns. I think that many former Catholics are fearful of what could happen to their children. I know a few Catholics and I think that they are being reasonable cautious.

There is a very interesting report by Dr. Richard Sipe (Catholic Priest) re: International Trafficking in Pedophile Priests - Web Link

Perhaps someday, Catholics will return to their former places of worship. Hopefully, their families will be safe.

I find the above posters respectful.

Correction: reasonably cautious

Okay, who are you and what have you done with the REAL Cholo?

"how can any parent feel safe about their kids anywhere near a priest"

yeah, uh, real civil and respectful, totally reasonable

With hundreds of new sexual abuse cases revealed each week in the US, Ireland, Denmark, Germany, et. al., is it really "totally unreasonable" to raise the issue?

I was raised Catholic and practiced off and on most of my life, even taught CCD for several years. But it is such a tough predicament to WANT to be a returning Catholic at a time when there is so much criminal behavior perpetrated by our priests that was not halted immediately by our highest ranking church leaders. It seems even more atrocious when the crimes are against our Catholic children (even if statistically they are equal to other congregations and 50% lower than standard social norms). It makes me question if I want to support an organization (monetary and spiritually) when their actions seem so far from the values they taught me in the first place.

Note: No disrespect to the poster of this notice or to any devoted Catholics, but since it was posted on a public forum I don’t mind sharing my thoughts and views associated with the event topic.

All children have a right to thrive. When any adult sexually abuses kids and vulnerable adults, they must be held accountable.

I know several devout Catholics and they dislike the cover-up of sexual abuse by clergy.
I can't imagine that any healthy adult thinks that it's acceptable behavior. It's criminal behavior. It's violent. It harms kids, families, communities and our country. It's simply not acceptable.

For those former Catholics that choose to return to the church, go for it! For others who have decided never to return to the Catholic church, it's understandable.

I would also never feel safe knowing that a kid is alone with a Catholic priest. The church has destroyed the trust and undermined social cooperation.

The world is watching.

I'm sure not only Catholic priests have sexually abused children.....

You're right. Clergy of all faiths sexually abuse children and vulnerable adults.

When a teacher has in appropriate sex with a student, when a police officer takes bribes from criminals and when a priest molests a child ... what makes it more heinous is the inherent Trust afforded by the public in each group of people. Yes, bribery takes place, but I certainly don't want the people enforcing our laws (and all the rights and privileges afforded them) to be involved. The Catholic Church should immediately admit its wrong doing ... kick out every priest that has molested or has a propensity to molest children ... and start over even if it means there are only 3 priests left in the entire Catholic Church.

Oh ... I forgot to ask if anyone has taken Cholo's temperature ... his statement is lucid, on point and informative. Good job cholo ... keep it up.

It is not only Catholic priests that sexually assult youg children. I was raped....(it has taken me 25 years to be able to say that)....at a cgurch "Youth Camp". My children have/will never go near any church activity.

With the new reports of inappropriate behavior of public school employees coming out every day, how can any parent feel safe about their kids going off to public schools every day?

Ah, trust one of our right-wing extremists to defend child molestation. Truly this is one of their "American family values."

Web Link SNAP will give you a good idea about sexual violence against children and vulnerable adults by Catholic priests, etc.

It's true that large numbers of teachers also sexually abuse children.

Not all Catholic priests are child molesters.

I must have missed something. Who on this forum is defending child molestation?

As for Cholo, anytime he has commented on child abuse of any kind, he has always spoken against it, often provided links and never joked about it.

It is definitely one issue he takes seriously as we all should.

You're right Huh? Nobody defended molestation. Nurse Shark was taught by the radical leftist Olberman & Mr.Ed machines to "insert" "right-wing extremist" any and every where, relevant or not. Their stragegy is repeat crap ofter enough, there are plenty of dummies that believe it. But, it didn't have any bearing on this discussion. Nurse just couldn't help herself.

This is SERIOUS ! What a crime to have 'allowed' these molestations to continue and to go UNpunished. Why weren't molesters put in jail at the time....like other criminals. They are just guys, like the higher priest are just guys who got promoted (by keeping silent). Today's church is about perpetuating itsself....NOT about clothing, or caring for the flock. It's very Irresponsible and NOT green, but the church is still telling poor to multiply and expand the church...even if there's no way to feed more children...how cruel..poverty breeding poverty. The church should assess itsself and think about 'better' not 'more'.

I'm not a jmf02 fan, but he/she didn't defend child molestation. Let's keep it real.

The parallel between teachers and priests that molest is that they are both in a position of trust not only with the kids, but with the parents as well - at least historically.

I think we have all had our eyes opened to the issue. No one more than momof2 - so sorry you had that horrible life experience. I don't blame you for keeping your kids away from these programs - I would be afraid as well.

You're right. jimf01's minimizing (mocking?) the seriousness of the institutionalized protection of child molesters by the Catholic Church was clearly intended to.... Um...

I'm sure he meant...hmm...

No, still reads like a defense to me.

shark must be a public school teacher

You caught me fair and square. From now on I'll post as "Nurse Teacher." Which must mean that pedophilia in the church isn't really a problem.

That's what you wanted me to say, right?

Web Link If anybody is seriously interested in learning more about sexual violence against kids by clergy, consider attending the SNAP National Conference in Chicago. It is listed on the SNAP home page.

If you want to understand why many survivor's never return to the Catholic church, you will learn first hand at the conference.

Nurse Shark, your characterization of jmf01’s post as defending child molestation and relating this to the overall conservatives “family values” was mocking. It could have been his/her intent to divert the focus of attention by introducing another perpetrator of molestation in a similar position, but I don’t see how that can be considered a defense of the act. Again, I’m not a jmf01 fan by any means but I disagree that there is any defense of this horrible act, nor that conservatives are bereft of family values as a whole.

That said, “Nobody said that’s” characterization of liberals was also diverting and divisive – why does every discussion have to disintegrate into “I know you are but what am I?”

Can we just agree that child molestation is a heinous act, and that liberals and conservatives alike would overwhelmingly agree to this? Do we have do divide and pound each other regardless of the topic?

I have attended the Returning Catholic Class in Pleasanton. When I left the church one of the reasons was the priest abuse issue. I came from a parish which had experienced this abuse. I am one who always had a call for God in my heart. I tried many other churches and found their leaderships had problems as well. What I learned is that perfection is not here on earth. I missed the Catholic Church. I felt closest to God. I started attending the classes. The classes are open to all who feel a calling to look again at the Catholic Church. Many topics are discussed. An opportunity is there for healing. I learned that the Catholic Church today has many safety methods in place to protect our kids (finger printing, zero tolerance, etc.) I knew of none of this measures in the Protestant churches I attended. The Catholic Community of Pleasanton is full of good people who are sadden by the reports of this terrible abuse. I believe the Church has far to go to correct itself. I am hopeful that the Holy Spirit will be able to work a miracle and all the Church leadership will work hard to make this happen. A priest once told me never to allow anyone or any institution to remove yourself from God. I believe these words are especially important today. God Bless.

Web Link Linda, this link may be of interest to you. It's important that you make an informed decision. Good luck!

Hello Cholo. I am aware of the previous problem with the Pastor of CCOP. He was never convicted or accused of any crime which hurt another person. I was informed of this problem by my parish and the press. Again I will say, healing is needed. CCOP is full of parishioners who care and most sadden by all the abuse problem. Only through open dealings by the church will the abuse problem be deterred. Should you really read the information from the website you recommend "SNAP" many different denominations also suffer by the hands of the abusers. Pedophiles will seek out victims and work in areas where they can hide their evilness. What I have found since coming back is a community now determined to be open. The new guidelines concerning abusers put out by the bishops are now being copied by other denominations. There is still much the church and continues to do to help its parishioners to heal. What has all of this to do with the Returning Catholics class? This class offers a place where one can ask questions, get their questions answered, and most importantly learn how the church will help you develop a relationship with God. Now is a time to seek truth, heal, forgive and build a connection with our God.

Good luck!

I can forgive a child molester once he/she is in prison with NO possibility of parole.

I always suggest to families that they NOT allow children to be alone with a priest.

Why just priest Cholo. Abusers are everywhere. They are coaches, teachers, doctors, dentist etc. Would you also advice that families not leave their children alone with any of the above? The percentage of priest who abuse is statistically about the same as the general public. Do not act out of fear or ignorance. Be diligent. Again I emphasize healing. Christ forgave those who nailed Him to the cross, forgiveness is there for all who ask. God will help you to forgive. God Bless.

Linda,

I understand where you are coming from and how it can seem that people are focusing on just priests, but unlike coaches, doctors, dentists, etc, there is and has been a cover-up of global proportions that has deliberately kept known pedophiles working with children in the Catholic Church.

The prioritization of "the institution" over innocent children has been shown to be a long-term and deliberate strategy, and there seems to be little more than lip service to reform and/or downplay offered as a response. The comparison to a dentist or coach who molests is not truly parallel, neither in scale nor severity, as demonstrated by the massive and wholly preventable cases of child molestation by repeat offenders who are supposed to be moral guides, unlike a doctor or teacher.

You think the cover up is only in the Catholic Church? Do some research with many of our large school districts have also worked hard to cover abuse. Most of the cover up stories in the US Catholic Church ended over 20 years ago. Let us look, watch and see where this may go. This could be a time of change in the Church and with all organizations who care for our children. Force change maybe happening within Rome and elsewhere. I agree the church has done much wrong in the past, but I am hopeful for change. But what does this have to do with the returning catholic class? My prayer is that those who considering the class would go. Perhaps they will find the answers to their questions. My experience with the Church I returned to was healing and it helped me develop a stronger relationship with God.

Good Luck! Be mindful and keep an eye on your kids. It's your responsibility to protect them and to keep them out of harms way.

I would never step into a mikva with certain rabbi's present. Not safe.

ps "Most of the stories in the US Catholic Church ended over 20 yrs ago." That's not true

Again, Good Luck!

Web Link This link is an interview with a great Catholic priest by the name of Fr. Tom Doyle. He is brilliant and has an interesting take on today's Catholic church.

Write to him Linda, he will answer...neat guy!

This is an article about a priest in the East Bay:

Web Link

Fr. Tim Steir: Web Link Good article!

My path crossed Rev. Stephen Kiesle's at Santa Paula Church in Fremont in the early 1970's. He is the priest whose removal from the cloth has caused so much recent upheaval for the Pope. He came there to replace the previous priest (whose name escapes me now) who had run away with a married parishioner, a woman who lived two doors down from us. My mother knew something was funny with Kiesle the minute she shook his hand, and we left Santa Paula to attend St. Joseph's, also in Fremont, within months of Kiesle's arrival.

Now called Our Lady of Guadalupe, our old church was traumatized by Kiesle, whose targets were, at the time, mostly young girls. Even as a 10 year old I understood what Kiesle really was, and my faith in the RCC ended then and there.

Thank you Cholo for your very gracious and sensitive remarks on this awful subject.

The church took a long time to act about Kiesle, and the Pope was involved (back then not the Pope). But it was not just the failure of the catholic church to keep this person away from kids. The law failed too. Read the timeline: (probation for tying up and molesting two boys? And now released even though he was convicted and sent to prison in 1995? This man should be in jail and instead lives in Walnut Creek in a gated community, why is the law allowing such a monster to live free in society? And why was the Pope allowed to rise to such a leadership position given his background with ignoring sex offenses?)


Web Link

" August 1978: Kiesle is arrested and pleads no contest to lewd conduct, a misdemeanor, for tying up and molesting two boys. Sentenced to three years of probation. His record is later expunged."

"2004: Kiesle pleads no contest to felony charge of molesting a young girl in 1995 at his Truckee vacation home.

2004: He is sentenced to six years in prison for the 1995 molestation.

2010: Kiesle is released in February. He is a registered sex offender living in Rossmoor, the gated seniors community in Walnut Creek.

Source: Associated Press"

The church took a long time to act about Kiesle, and the Pope was involved (back then not the Pope). But it was not just the failure of the catholic church to keep this person away from kids. The law failed too. Read the timeline: (probation for tying up and molesting two boys? And now released even though he was convicted and sent to prison in 1995? This man should be in jail and instead lives in Walnut Creek in a gated community, why is the law allowing such a monster to live free in society? And why was the Pope allowed to rise to such a leadership position given his background with ignoring sex offenses?)


Web Link

" August 1978: Kiesle is arrested and pleads no contest to lewd conduct, a misdemeanor, for tying up and molesting two boys. Sentenced to three years of probation. His record is later expunged."

"2004: Kiesle pleads no contest to felony charge of molesting a young girl in 1995 at his Truckee vacation home.

2004: He is sentenced to six years in prison for the 1995 molestation.

2010: Kiesle is released in February. He is a registered sex offender living in Rossmoor, the gated seniors community in Walnut Creek.

Source: Associated Press"

"Most of the cover up stories in the US Catholic Church ended over 20 years ago"

Not true, the cover up is still going on. The Pope has only issued statements because he had no choice. Read this article about bishops fighting a current bill that would remove the statute of limitations. I would think the church would welcome that and instead they are fighting it:

Web Link

I hope you protect your children even if you choose to remain catholic despite the horrible things this church has done.

I've been a Catholic all my life. The systematic covering up of child abuse by priests is abhorrent. To then have my home church allow a man who has been arrested for masturbating in a public park become pastor is very difficult for me to accept. It feels like a slap in the face. Our pastor seems like a lovely man, but in light of the terrible history of the church his arrest should preclude him from a leadership role here. I am struggling with whether it is time for me to leave a faith that has been a part of me for my whole life.

Linda:

How can you say that the cover up no longer goes on? Read this very recent article (Pleasanton Weekly) about the Pleasanton priest Greene who was allowed to come to this church despite his conviction in 1999. The guy is from Ireland and like Lee says above, was convicted of something horrible even if the law called it a misdemeanor:

Web Link

Read the details of Greene's arrest:

Web Link

The catholic church calls him a "redeemed" person, isn't that what they did all along and because of that the abuse of many innocent children took place?

I hope that you keep your kids safe, and that you do not go around trying to convince others that it is safe to leave their kids with priests, certainly not with the Pleasanton priest Greene.

I wrote: "was convicted of something horrible "

Correction: Greee was not convicted, because he agreed to therapy. From the article:

"Wiesner said no minors were present when Greene was arrested for lewd conduct at the North Oakland Regional Sports Center on Broadway in Oakland in March 1999 and the charges against him were dismissed after he agreed to undergo therapy.

However, Piscitelli said the fact that Greene wasn't convicted of any wrongdoing "doesn't mean he was innocent" and he thinks it's unlikely the incident was the only time Greene, who worked at Christ the King parish in Pleasant Hill at the time, behaved inappropriately.

He asked, "How many men do you know who drive from Pleasant Hill to a park in Oakland to masturbate?" "

---------------

I wonder why people in Pleasanton ignore this. It is not normal and imo it certainly put kids at risk. Maybe that is why the catholic church has gotten away with so much, because it has followers who choose to ignore horrible things their priests have done.

Fether Greene is in charge of the church that is inviting catholics back to the church. How can this be? Father Greene should have never been allowed in a position of leadership, and now they have the nerve to invite people back, knowing that the church leader here in Pleasanton has a past that is nothing to be proud of?

This is one heck of a time to invite folks to take another look at the Catholic Church. From the Pope all the way down the line, it's a corrupt organization that is stuck in the middle ages. I left the church many years ago in search of real spiritual enlightenment ... and found IT, THANK GOD!

So interesting that the entire forum of negative comments about the Catholic Church is centered around the sexual abuse issue. Over 1 Billion members worldwide and the whole Church is corrupt??? For the Country Fair "recovering Catholic" if you found your real spiritual enlightenment why do you seek to strike at the Catholic Church? Shouldn't your enlightenment drive you to be loving and kind, non-condemning? The Catholic Church does not profess to be perfect and it IS the one religion who doesn't criticize other faiths. The Catholic Church has had a huge positive influence on the world including the beginning of democracy in Eastern Europe and going further back, the end of the horrific realm of the King Henry era, not to mention the missionary efforts all over the world today.

Again, this was an invite for "interested parties", not a forum to criticize. If your aim is to discuss, open a new post for discussion rather than dump all over someone's invite.

KR,

I don't think anyone is saying that 1 billion Catholics are corrupt, but I do think it's fair to question the leaders who have prioritized secrecy and avoiding scandal over the lives of countless children.

What's more, to portray moral disgust at systematic protection of child molestors as some sort of petty sectarian squabble demonstrates a shocking lack of empathy for the thousands of victims molested by these priests.

I do appreciate that the Church has done a great deal of good, and although I know there will be others who would bring up the Inquisition, the Crusades and such, I'm not going to go there. That's not the point. But if you want to know why a post inviting people to RCIA has generated nothing but negativity, it might be because this is how the Catholic Church is viewed by many these days.

"So interesting that the entire forum of negative comments about the Catholic Church is centered around the sexual abuse issue"

What do you expect? The Pleasanton church is led by Greene, a priest that was caught masturbating at a Sports Park in Oakland. The charges were dismissed because he agreed to therapy, but that does not make his actions OK.

And this church, after having brought such a priest as Greene, now invites people back? Are you kidding me? By having Greene as a priest, that says the catholic church has not learned a thing and continues to try to justify and cover up for these guys who are a threat to children. How can you possibly feel comfortable letting your children hang out with someone who masturbated in a public park where children hang out?

Why do you think most of us former catholics left the church in the first place? Because of the sexual abuse that for many years was ignored by the catholic leadership (current Pope included), and that led to the abuse of many innocent children.

Why would you expect any positive comments about an invitation made by a church in Pleasanton that is currently led by someone who should not be in a position of leadership and should NOT be allowed to be around kids?

If you want to put your kids at risk and turn a blind eye to what Greene did, that is your choice, but what a nerve to invite others to do the same.

Web Link An AMERICAN HERO speaks out!

Bishop Jose Gomez, recently appointed to the Diocese of Los Angeles, involved in COVER-UP of priest rape of teen at gunpoint: Web Link

The incident occurred in 2008.

Web Link Father Tom Doyle, Dominican Priest, Canon Lawyer at the Vatican, former Chaplain/Lt. Colonel in the USAF describes the American Catholic church as "swamp of toxic waste".

He is also a great American Hero!

Signing off on this thread....Cholo...HOORAY! VIVA TOM! VIVA!