Well, then doesn't it concern you that the evil insurance companies are seeing a benefit with the passage of this legislation that is supposed to put them in their place?

It is driving them crazy, question is will they wait til after November to turn on their Democrat progressives demanding enhancements to HCR?
The stock market is pricing in millions of new customers for the insurance companies.

This highlights the stupidity of the right and of you folks in particular. It's always black and white with you guys. HCR is either going to completely destroy the world or cut healthcare costs for everyone by 100%. If it doesn't do either of these two things then it's a waste. No subtlty, no nuance, no pragmatism. You people lost your freaking minds over the past year. Obama's HCR plan is virtually identical to the plan you dolts were all praising Romney for putting in place in MA. It's similar to the plan that bob dole proposed in 1996. Are progressives happy about the final result? Yes and no. We're happy that there's tighter regulations on the insurance industry. We're happy about the bans on dropping coverage, pre-existing conditions, ends to subsidies for Medicare advantage (pure giveaways to insrance). And this is where you guys get lost...we're perfectly fine with this bill benefiting the insurance industry IF IT MEANS 32 MILLION PEOPLE WILL HAVE ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE! That's always been the final goal! You never freaking got it. So you think we're going to be gnashing our teeth at the thought that the healthcare industry stands to profit? That's what's always been so mind-boggling about all this...all these cries of socialism/communism/etc when in fact obama was pushing a plan that was basically going to flood the insurance industry with 31 million new customers. The level of stupid from your side on all this is astounding. This is why you continue to lose...you act like children.

HA ! That is why you comment on another thread

"great, fine...let's provide an alternative then, like, say, oh, I don't know...a single payer system! That would relieve all companies of the burden of providing coverage for their employees...GREAT IDEA!!!"

And that is verbatim.

You were honest about one thing, Obama's HCR plan is virtually identical to the plan in place in MA.
I will deal with the failures in that system later, longer waits, some describe as de facto rationing, are only the beginning.

Jim, I don't really see the point of your reference. ASB states progressives are happy - YES and NO. Meaning that our most important goal was to provide access and good coverage. It may not have happened in the way some would have liked the most (public option), but the most important thing is that people will have access to coverage who didn't before, and insurance companies will be held to higher accountability for the coverage they offer. The goal wasn't to take down insurance companies, destroy the industry, socialize and destroy the country, destroy the economy, or whatever ridiculous bit of the RW mantra you choose to spit out. Even in your rebuttal, you still don't get it. You've so surrounded yourself with the RW rhetoric that you fail to see what is really happening or any viewpoint from the people who advocated for passage of this reform. This whole thing, as I heard someone say today, was nothing but a talk radio pipe dream. Now you're forced to move forward with a broken and angry mob, an incoherent leadership, and a bill that people will quickly see provides some excellent and extremely beneficial reforms to the business of health in America. As I said before, the Republicans need to get themselves straightened out and become effective partners in the governing process, because until they do, they are doing a disservice to the right AND the left.

Once again PM4T offers the opposite of the truth, because I posted a-sb back his own comment where he comes right out and says that single-payer would have been a great idea.

I also posted a separate thread with many top Dems saying the same thing, so this is not RW rhetoric, this is the Dem side in their own words. Watch the videos yourself:

If you still think this is not a progressive agenda -- Web Link

This legislation is not single payer. That much is clear.

There is one side of the aisle that was offering compromise, and that is the GOP, they have their own website with their proposals to accomplish reforms, and actually fix structural problems.

Web Link

You and the others are being completely disingenuous to not admit what your own Dem leaders are saying, that single payer is the ultimate goal. And admit further that single payer is a complete government takeover.

It is not hard to understand that with the vote margin disadvantage in both chambers of Congress, the GOP can only oppose and obstruct if they want to achieve any goals. The Tea Partiers have made that much clear to them. We are taking the GOP back and working toward smaller government.

I have posted Rep Paul Ryan and the GOP plans here many times, no one ever even tries to shoot holes in them. The tactic is to ignore and repeat that the GOP has no ideas and is the party of no

I have posted the Dem videos in my other thread. I noticed that none of the normal crew of leftists posted a SINGLE comment saying they didn't like the idea of single payer? There is a good reason for that.

Jim, you do not even make sense. You are calling me a liar, yet in two rebuttals you still fail to show the contradiction you allege. Now you claim to know the reason behind all the things the normal crew of leftists DOESN'T post? That is insane. And let's say said normal crew of leftists DOES want a single payer system. They obviously didn't get it, so what's the point of continuing to argue about it? And that doesn't preclude them (us) from being pleased about many aspects of the new reform. For all the polls you guys like to cite saying the public doesn't like the plan, there's never a mention of those who wanted it to be MORE liberal and what that does to the attempts of the Tea Party movement to claim the majority public opinion.
At this point I can only conclude that you and I speak completely different languages, because I don't understand you and you CLEARLY don't understand me. So let's leave it at that. I was totally unimpressed with what I saw at the Tea Party rally last Friday, and as motivated as you are to take back your party, I am equally motivated to work for the betterment of our country.
BTW, opposition and obstruction are separate from unruliness and lack of class. Your party would be wise not to follow the lead of the talk-radio inspired Tea Party rage, and to instead to find a leader of character to change at least the tone, if not the message.

Obviously I made both of my points, because you just moved on to the next set of liberal talking points.

Why of course, if you simply poll people and ask if they like HR 3590, then you get the progressives who only want single payer saying no. That pushes opposition over 50%, right?
And Fox and the RW echo chamber are so busy spreading misingformation about healthcare, many of those in opposition believe in death panels, etc. Right?

OK, let's say said normal crew of leftists DOES want a single payer system (you are one of the few to admit it here). The simple fact that you typed that shows why we should continue. Because the debate is not over.
Between now and November, the Dems are going to have to explain why Obama said over the weekend that HCR is the top domestic priority, replacing jobs which were the top priority in the SOTU
They will have to shut down the progressives who will push for single payer. That should be fairly easy, since they can count on the media to ignore the story.
But the abortion controversy and immigration reform should add enough fuel to the fire.
Yep, I will go back to my no class unruly unimpressive Tea Party, you go back to your liberal talking points and search for something that might save McNerney's job in November.

Jim, enough with the "talking points" BS. First, if the normal crew of leftists wants a single payer system, it's nothing to ADMIT. Either they do or they don't. It's not a sign of moral decay to advocate for a particular type of health form just because YOU don't agree with it. That aside, I was SPECULATING for the sake of argument - and the passed legislation doesn't provide for a single payer system, so it's moot.
If the people vote McNerney out, so be it. He knew that full well when he cast his vote. Again, do remember that members of his constituency - who elected him - were in favor of reform. If it was so conservative, we'd be talking about Pombo's vote right now, right? And so much for the conspiracy theories on this board that Pelosi was going to give McNerney a "no" go ahead to save his seat once she knew the ayes had enough votes. You have to get over this idea that there's only opposition to reform, and the government isn't listening. They just didn't listen to you.

I can read between the lines, come on. You moved right on to the next argument. You also are well aware of pundits speculating that this is by design, Dems will take losses strategically for November. They figure if the whole thing isn't struck down by the courts, they have made a huge advance. Even if they lose seats, or a majority in one or both houses.

So, interesting choice of words, who said anything about moral decay?

When did I ever say "there's only opposition to reform"? I said the GOP was forced to that position, it is the Democrats that set this battle up, and you know it.

Quite the contrary, I posted again the link to GOP ideas for reform. Again and again I have posted what could be compromises that the majority of the American people can support. There is much disagreement, and what was passed has very very little of the GOP's proposal in there.

And so why would the Democrats be willing to give up on compromise and push for HR 3590? It has to be because of what is in there. The American people, myself included, have not even found out what is in there pertaining to student loans. There are, however, giant new bureaucracies which are completely unnecessary to achieve reforms. There is more and more power placed in the hands of the federal government, completely unnecessary again. There were, even up to Saturday, secret negotiations to obtain last minute votes (Stupak). I could continue, but now I am a whacked out conspiracy theorist again, right?

i am so ESCAIR ESCAIR ESCAIR!

PRESIDENT OBAMA RULES! VIVA OBAMA! VIVA!

Did it ever occur to you that Stupak and his little anti-choice gang took that issue away from the republicans so they could negotiate on it? We all know the right is party of "NO" so imagine if they had they made an issue of that, we would still be stuck. Frankly, I don't care how many deals are made, though I abhor Stupak's explanation for why they wanted to obstruct (I had no idea women had abortions because they couldn't afford the medical bills. I thought it was because they couldn't afford to raise them. Learn something new every day)

It amazes me how the right are only concerned about procedure and rules, etc. when they're in the minority. When the right was in power, they did anything they wanted. Funny to hear you complain about the strong-arming tactics that are normal politics, apparently except when their used against you.

So now how is abortion still a controversial issue? I'm confused. The bill is signed.