Post a New Topic
Original post made
by Bill, Another Pleasanton neighborhood,
on Mar 17, 2010
Ed Morrissey, the author of this piece, is know as Minnesota's Rush Limbaugh. It is typical of his over the top, hate filled rants aimed at no one in particular. Unless this assertion could be supported by another far more reputable source, I am dismissing it completely.
Instead of blithely dismissing a hot air contributors POV, some might actually click through and read the study by Beacon Hill Institute:
The first significant item that jumps out at you is that BHI compares CBO estmates to what Rep Pelosi is relying on, a report from the CAP, Center for American Progress.
Yes, the Center for American Progress which hired Van Jones when he was jettisoned quietly by the Obama Administration. The CAP is run by John Podesta and funded by George Soros
That aside, the competing reports reach opposing conclusions, the CAP report would have you believe that $500 billion in savings from Medicare and other savings will "set in motion new incentives for firms to create jobs"
The BHI notes that these savings have failed to materialize every year since 2002 when the "doctor fix" Medicare legislation was first passed. It has been renewed every year since then.
If the Congress doesn't cut $500 billion from Medicare, the CAP reports findings don't pan out. The BHI report points out numerous other differences between the CAP report numbers and what the CBO estimates say. Read the report.
Thank you for backing up my post. Also thank you for your patience in responding to liberals who will dismiss anything that doesn't agree with their worldview...(a socialist, collectivist, marxist, and yes...a communist view).
I simply have run out of patience in entertaining debate with them.
Now, I simply view democrats (of which I was one once)...as my enemy and the enemy of America.
Amazing interview between Obama and Brett Baer today. I have never seen a President tell one lie after another and he was embarassed for himself. He is a true joke and I believe he knows he is.
I am with you, agree 100%.
I am sick to death of listening to Obama lie, lie and lie some more, so I couldn't bring myself to watch him lie to Brett Baer today. Baer is too much of a professional to call him out.
Brett Baer spent most of the time trying to get Obama to answer the questions, stop campaigning, and answering his previous statements which were conflicting. It really was sad for Obama and without his teleprompters he was reduced to his usual studdering and stammering.
Bill and Jim, you have made the unwarranted, and incorrect, assumption that I am a liberal based on my post. Conservatives who use "liberal" as a pejorative only weaken the arguments they wish to support. My point was missed by your insistence on name calling, namely that conservatives should stop using the unsupportable words of the far right to make their arguments for them. Your credibility is instantly lost. Don't post the words of discredited sources -- use your own. In this case, the health care bill has not even taken shape. In its very fluid state, there is no way to make such harsh and wild statements as Morrissey has done.
Not all change is bad, people. Join the rest of the country somewhere in the middle, and see your agendas satisfied.
Kay - only you did some of what you accuse me of. I read the study, I didn't use the term liberal, and I used my own words.
By the way, the term liberal is not name calling. But that is a different subject.
You absolutely cannot any longer possibly use last summers argument, "the health care bill has not even taken shape. In its very fluid state"
There are no more hearings scheduled, there are no amendments to be voted upon. The bill was sent to CBO for scoring in it's reconciliation version. Reconciliation means trueing up the differences between the Senate and House versions.
Both sides agree we are in the home stretch, this is do or die for this bill, something will be voted on soon that will shape politics and government, the very direction of the country for years to come.
I will give you one point, not all change is bad. This change is BAD. Very BAD. Very very BAD.
"I agree with you that in politics the middle way is none at all." - John Adams, in a letter to Horatio Gates 23 March, 1776
Jim -- I appreciate your passion for the topic. Does the highly favorable CBO report of today soften your pain at all? John Adams aside, the middle still represents consensus for most Americans.
In the interest of full disclosure, I have a dog in this fight. The five largest medical insurers in Northern California have all denied me coverage due to the same "pre-existing condition -- asthma, which I have had since birth, and I am now 52 years old. My out of pocket costs for the controller medication is $15. per day, a cost deemed too high by them.
The reconciliation process in congress does leave room for change, so nothing is carved in stone yet, despite the imminent vote. Of the many provisions still included as of this morning -- mandated insurance coverage and the requisite subsidies, health insurance exchanges, exclusion of pre-existing conditions, Medicaid expansion, tighten of Medicare co-pay rules -- there is still a great deal on table. Federal oversight of rates, Medicare fraud detection, expansion of health savings accounts, abortion funding, are a few examples of issues still under advisement. The only thing not on the table is the public option.
With this many points covered, which of these are you in favor of? Surely there has to be something you will accept out of that many components. My point is, if there is even one you will accept, then you have taken one step toward the middle. Keep walking, brother.
I have a serious pre-existing condition too - I'm a cancer survivor.
But with every fiber of my being, I know the Government takeover of healthcare is not about reform. It's about raw political power and controlling 1/6th of our economy, and it's about socialistic control of the population.
All you have to do is look at the character of the people who are involved with this: Saul Alinsky and Cloward-Piven trained socialists, marxists, communists, radicals and even criminals (the healthcare bill was written by Robert Creamer who wrote it while he was in jail. These people have to lie and deceive to sell their agenda. Just looking at these people tells me: Alert - Warning - Red flag - Danger!! It's not what they say it is!!
Correction - Robert Creamer didn't write the Healthcare bill, he wrote a book called "How Progressives Can Win" while he was in jail, which is the road map followed by the Democrats in this takeover of the healthcare industry.
Excerpt from Web Link:
"Rep. Schakowsky’s husband, Robert Creamer, used to be the leader of Citizen Action/Illinois. He also founded its predecessor, Illinois Public Action, in which Ms. Schakowsky served as Program Director. He runs a political consulting firm, the Strategic Consulting Group, which lists ACORN and the SEIU among its clients and which made $541,000 working for disgraced former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich.
Creamer resigned from Citizen Action/Illinois after the FBI began investigating him for bank fraud and tax evasion at Illinois Public Action. He was convicted in 2006 and sentenced to five months in federal prison in Terre Haute, Indiana, plus eleven months of house arrest.
While in prison—or “forced sabbatical,” he called it—Creamer wrote a lengthy political manual, Listen to Your Mother: Stand Up Straight! How Progressives Can Win (Seven Locks Press, 2007).
The book was endorsed by leading Democrats and their allies, including SEIU boss Andy Stern—the most frequent visitor thus far to the Obama White House—and chief Obama strategist David Axelrod, who noted that Creamer’s tome “provides a blueprint for future victories.”
In the book, Creamer draws lessons from decades of experience on the radical left, including the teachings of arch-radical Saul Alinsky, and several episodes from Rep. Schakowsky’s political career. He also lays out a “Progressive Agenda for Structural Change,” which includes a ten-point plan for foisting universal health care on the American people in 2009:
•“We must create a national consensus that health care is a right, not a commodity; and that government must guarantee that right.”
•“We must create a national consensus that the health care system is in crisis.”
•“Our messaging program over the next two years should focus heavily on reducing the credibility of the health insurance industry and focusing on the failure of private health insurance.”
•“We need to systematically forge relationships with large sectors of the business/employer community.”
•“We need to convince political leaders that they owe their elections, at least in part, to the groundswell of support of [sic] universal health care, and that they face political peril if they fail to deliver on universal health care in 2009.”
•“We need not agree in advance on the components of a plan, but we must foster a process that can ultimately yield consensus.”
•“Over the next two years, we must design and organize a massive national field program.”
•“We must focus especially on the mobilization of the labor movement and the faith community.”
•“We must systematically leverage the connections and resources of a massive array of institutions and organizations of all types.”
•“To be successful, we must put in place commitments for hundreds of millions of dollars to be used to finance paid communications and mobilization once the battle is joined.”
Creamer adds: “To win we must not just generate understanding, but emotion—fear, revulsion, anger, disgust.”
Democrats have followed Creamer’s plan to the letter. They have claimed our health care system is in crisis despite polls showing the overwhelming majority of Americans are happy with the care they receive. They have—with the help of President Obama—circulated false horror stories about Americans dying for lack of health care and health insurance.
They have targeted the health insurance industry, with Rep. Schakowsky herself promising to “put the private insurance industry out of business,” though it is a top employer in Illinois."
Pleasanton Mom -- If it is not what they say it is, then what is it?
I am glad you beat your disease, I truly am, but do you not now, as a direct result of that experience, understand that many others in your situation without proper coverage will never be able to call themselves a survivor? My own mother is a non-survivor for that exact reason. She exceeded her annual coverage maximums, was cut off, and before she could sell her home the breast cancer metastasized in her brain. End of story.
Give me specifics, based on the itemized list above of what may now be included and what may change during the reconciliation process, of which provisions you consider unacceptable. I am really trying to understand the issue here, but you are asking me to not trust the backers based on emotional considerations, not because of the issues.
Kay - Whether you agree with PMom or not, whether you think the Dems are following Creamers blueprint, I agree with the overarching point, this HCR package is not what they say it is. Just refer over to my thread "If you still think this is not a progressive agenda"
This is the Democrats currently in power stating straight out that this HCR package is only the first step toward single-payer healthcare. This is what I am against. I am a bit agnostic on specific reforms right now, it detracts from the real point.
Single-payer is a failure anywhere it is the law today, with the possible exception of South Korea.
Even with the success in South Korea, I am opposed to the nationalization of 16% of the US economy. That is a major step towards socialism, no matter how you slice it, and it is what the Democrats want.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. God Bless her. Mine was caught early and I have a good prognosis, but it was a brutal time for me and my family.
We absolutely do need insurance reforms. But the goals of this Government, or any socialist government are not consistent with the goals of you, me, and our doctors. This Government is going to control doctors, and fine them if they try to provide more care than the government panel says you're worth.
Kay, I really appreciate you asking questions without attacking me personally. But I have just over one year of research into this Obama Adminsistration, so I have so much information that would take me hours and hours and hours to impart. I've shared a lot of it on this forum. I have no affiliation with any insurance company or anything like that, I'm just a regular American who woke up with the Sleeping Giant. One thing I can tell you is that I do not watch mainstream media. I have information that you will NEVER see on mainstream media. Mainstream media is completely sensored.
I know the liberals love to bash Glenn Beck, but Glenn Beck has done more than any other person I can think of (including Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, etc.) It's not just Glenn's "opinion" - when you watch his show, you will see that he shows you actual video or audio of the person saying whatever it is Glenn is trying to expose, so you hear/see it for yourself firsthand. He has guests that come on and explain things too. Glenn is the one who outed Obama's Czar Van Jones, a self-avowed Communist. Our President appointed a Communist to the White House? Yes, sadly. I cannot imagine a day without watching Glenn Beck's show. He's got something like 3 million viewers, so they can't all be wrong. The Left only hates Glenn because Glenn has exposed them and their agenda - and in their own words!! The thing is, when you watch Glenn or anyone for that matter, you still have your own filters that you pass things through, you still have the right not to believe. But I guarantee you, you will believe your own eyes and ears when you hear the videos/audios. In fact, it was on Glenn Beck that I learned about Robert Creamer. I'm sure no mainstream media covered Robert Creamer.
God Bless you, Kay.
Just a bit of info if you haven't watched FOX today. Neil Cavuto had the worlds fasted speed reader going through the Health Care Bill during His show.
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