The short answer is Yes! Because he doesn't represent us. He represents himself, so he meets with his top constituent every moment!

Okay, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned about this tea party town hall anti-reform loud noises movement.

Between the $1.4 million per day being spent to lobby and advertise against healthcare reform, we now have a largely self-defeating crowd of middle-aged, middle class American wingnuts who are disrupting town hall meetings and manufacturing an artificial perception that normal Americans of all stripes are against healthcare reform -- not just the public option -- but healthcare reform in general. In other words, if enough of these town hall meetings are seized by loud noises, I worry that it might be enough to swing some moderate lawmakers away from any sort of decent legislation.

Elsewhere, there's a conventional wisdom being formed right now. A vibe is beginning to take shape: healthcare reform is losing steam, they say. You hear it on cable news, you hear it on the radio and it's floating around in certain circles online. These protests only serve to enhance and feed that vibe -- however fake it all might be.

The tea party people know this and that's why they're doing it. Beyond these displays of rage, they don't have any clear position or facts with which to back it up. They've simply been told by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck that a "socialist foreigner" is going to take away their guns and force their grannies to commit suicide -- they've been manipulated once again to rally against their own best interest.

I think that's what's the most disturbing about this: that this movement is so loudly protesting something which, by in large, won't run up the debt, which won't cost them a penny in new taxes, which will reduce their health insurance premiums, which will protect them from losing their healthcare, and which will ultimately save them piles of money in the long run. If they do in fact reflect the socioeconomic status of the typical middle class conservative Republican, many of these people would profoundly benefit from healthcare reform and the public option -- as they also will benefit from the Obama tax cuts and recovery legislation. But they don't want it because a sobbing multi-millionaire on Fox News said so. Hence the "self-defeating" remark above.

And finally, I'd be lying if I told you that I wasn't personally angered and deeply offended by these protests -- far beyond my normal level of bemusement, outrage or disgust at the far-right. Because if they succeed with their loud noises and dittoheaded lies, and if healthcare reform fails as a consequence, I probably won't qualify for affordable health insurance for a very long time.

Meanwhile, the people who do have health insurance will pay 30 percent more for it next year, 30 more the year after, 30 percent more three years from now and so on. Even then, with grossly inflated premiums bringing them closer bakruptcy, there's no guarantee that when they get sick, their health insurance will cover their illness as promised. Consequently, healthcare reform and the public option are mandatory -- irrespective of ideology or any ridiculous loyalty to an impotent talk radio host.

Once again, we can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

Is Ptown Paul trying to drum up a screaming right-wing mob in Pleasanton?

Yes!

At the risk of offending some people, have you noticed that there quite a few senior citizens participating in these anti-reform wingnut disruptions of town hall meetings? Old people who, we can only assume, are recipients of Medicare benefits. Socialized, government-run health insurance.

So these wingnuts on Medicare get to enjoy single-payer health insurance, but not the rest of us -- and they're so fanatical about their position that they're infiltrating town hall meetings and shouting in tongues.

Shame on every last senior citizen who's participating in these protests. Awful, disgusting people who ought to be ashamed of their flagrant hypocrisy.

McNerney isn't dodging his constitituents. Since when is a "Town Hall Meeting" the ONLY way for him to communicate with his constitituents?

Gee, wonder if Paul wants to have a "Town Hall Meeting" so he and his crew can make loud noises and disrupt the meeting this chants of "socialism". Paul is all about making a scene and can’t offer any constructive ideas for improving healthcare.

No, on the contrary. Congressman McInerney is very available. His staff answers the phone, and responds to written correspondence.

I would wonder about his judgment if he willingly subjected himself to right-wing Teabagger plants intent on disruption.

I'll hold a town hall meeting. First, dunk your head in any toilet and flush.

April Fools!

hahahahahahahahahahahah...

Ptown Paul:
Good question. The answer is "of course" he is dodging his constituents at the behest of the person he answers to...Madam Pelosi. He also served on the Energy and Commerce Committee that passed the Healthcare Bill for Senate vote in September...so he was one of the main proponents of the Socialist Obamacare Plan...which will ration care for all of us, especially SENIORS. (By the way, he also voted for Congress to maintain its SUPERIOR quality of healthcare (a private plan) compared to the quality that we PLEBES will have under Obamacare. The Republicans pushed to allow for equal quality for all but Democrats rejected this idea quickly.)

In case you had not seen another posting on this board a couple days ago, the same question was posed and there were quite a few replies. You may want to scan them (below).

Web Link

I'm a proud member of the Screaming Right-Wing Mob in Pleasanton!
Somebody need to try and stop the insanity of unsustainable reckless spending from a corrupt self preservationist congressman yielding to party and special interest over the people of his district.

Of course he is!!! hard to explain that you have not even read the thing.

Why do you people insist on being confrontational, threatening and un civil?

You are all crazy!

Freedom 23 says: "..., we now have a largely self-defeating crowd of middle-aged, middle class American wing nuts'

and then is " personally angered and deeply offended" by their actions.

This debate, Freedom, is NOT about feelings. I am one of those upper middle class, over 50ty primary care physician. This is about those "wing nuts" as you like to label them, using their ability to think and discern, and choose not to support a plan that guts the health care delivery system and rationing care, at a cost that yet has been determined.


LESSONS FROM MASSACHUSETTS

The Massachusetts experiment in health care reform offers many lessons that are applicable to the current debate in Congress. The goals of the Massachusetts plan are similar to proposals supported by Democratic congressional leaders and the Obama administration: universal health insurance coverage through greater access to health insurance, says Greg Scandlen, director of Consumers for Health Care Choices at the Heartland Institute.

The Obama proposals would use similar means to achieve these goals: requiring individuals to purchase insurance and creating an "insurance exchange" where they can buy heavily regulated, heavily subsidized health insurance.

The Massachusetts reform, however, has raised costs, not lowered them. The state has indeed lowered the number of uninsured dramatically -- down to 2.6 percent of the population by some estimates. But it has done so in a very expensive way that does nothing to control costs, says Scandlen.

Massachusetts has relied primarily on two factors to fund its plan:

* State premium subsidies for almost everyone who has gained coverage.
* The requirement that individuals enroll.

This is a huge burden on taxpayers and on anyone who pays directly for health care, says Scandlen:

* The state was able to get the federal government to pay for much of these new costs, but even with that help, state government spending has increased 42 percent since 2006.
* The Massachusetts program has cost about one-third more than projected when the law was passed.
* Before the Massachusetts health insurance reform plan was implemented in 2005, total per capita health care spending in the state was 33 percent above the national average.
* In just two years under the Massachusetts reforms, from 2005 to 2007, health care spending per capita rose an additional 23 percent.

Source: Greg Scandlen, "Three Lessons from Massachusetts," National Center for Policy Analysis, Brief Analysis, No. 667, July 28, 2009.

I really don't understand why McNerney will not schedule a town hall. If someone behaves badly or doesn't follow the rules, let them be kicked out. Our form of government is a representative democracy. If our representative chooses not to address where he stands and why, then voters will need to consider this factor in next year's election.

I'm guessing that McNerney has done polling and this issue is not popular among voters in this district. Thus, a "smart" politician would dodge the issue to maximize his or her chances of winning reelection. However, our congress is full of "smart" politicians. Its too bad, as debate is healthy in a democratic republic like ours.

This is so aggrivating.

Our "representatives" aren't supposed to tell us anything. They are supposed to come to us, hear what the majority want and vote that way...hence the term "republic".

Then they are supposed to return to their post and pull the lever that we said to. They are supposed to be the ultimate public servant with absolute integrity.

McNerney? Not so much.

Screw this. We should just have another rally on Black like in April and invite him. Can you imagine if he didn't show up?

That is seriously what we should do. Apparently we can see his calendar, so plan it on a date he'll be around. I wouldn't want to be him if he didn't show up...

Time to start planning the event...

I just hope people come to their senses and fight to preserve the precious relationship between a patient and their health insurance administrator. The way I figure it, as a stockholder in several health insurance companies, the almost $6,000 per year I'm dropping in copays and premiums are coming right back into my pocket in the multiple dollar per share dividends I collect each quarter. So please, McNerney, please support the GOP Healthcare plan which will pump another 700 billion in subsidies over 10 years into the healthcare industry and maybe, just maybe my dividends will be enough to cover my health costs. Now we just have to get congress to repeal those fascist taxes on dividends...

Let me be clear this is not about Health Care it is about THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING OUR LIVES. Once they get a hand in our lives they will try to control everything you do and what you can eat.

Of course he's avoiding us! Socialists don't care about the Individual. They think they know what is best for you.......and how best to spend your money.

Since members of Congress have been returning home to their districts for the August recess, a consortium of industry-backed right-wing groups have been planning ambushes to harass Democrats for supporting health care reform. The media has obtained a leaked memo from a volunteer with Tea Party Patriots, a website sponsored by lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, that details how members should be disrupting town halls and “rattling” Democratic members of Congress.

Last night, Rep. Steve Kagen (D-WI) and Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH) were apparently the latest victims of this strategy. Kagen, whose town hall was targeted by the Wisconsin chapter of Americans for Prosperity, was “repeatedly disrupted” by “incomprehensible” shrieks and shouts from angry conservatives. Watch it:

Web Link

It just kills me that these mental midgets don't even realize how they're being used and manipulated. The corporate bigwigs are laughing behind their backs the whole time. Instead of yelling "fire!", they yell "socialism! euthanasia! government takover!" and their minions go wild. Pathetic.

Look, even Glenn Beck told his audienece not to resort to violence. This is going to back-fire. Palin/McCain tried to incite these people, it didn't work. The 'Tea-Bag' movement was a joke. These people are an embarassment. Talk about 'White Bread'. And most of them are old. WTF do they care about Health Care Reform? They get Medicare and Social Security! This is all about Obama and the fact he is a minority. And these idiots better get a clue. In a couple of decades THEY will be the minority. Sometimes I love Cosmic Justice.

Of course he is..just check out his website...any link that invites
public input has been taken down...shameful and cowardly to say the least..

What we are learning from the Health Care Town Halls is just how weird and downright toxic the radical right has become in the United States. Their strategy seems to be simply to spread misinformation and to shout down rational debate. These are the birthers and tea-baggers and they have little interest in the real problems facing our health care system--50 million uninsured, uncontrolled costs, and inadequate quality. The faux issues they are raising--a government takeover of our health care system, denial of health care to the sick by the government, the end of private health insurance--demonstrate that they have simply not read the proposed legislation.

Dear Samol:
I am (or was) a democrat and it is very apparent that you either are simply not paying attention to what is happening, what Obama's "CHANGE" really means. Or, you are relying on receiving your news from the mainstream media who simply will not paint anything Obama does with a skeptical eye.

What is happening in our country should scare even the most loyal democrat.

We are losing our freedoms at a breathtaking rate. And just yesterday we learn that Obama has established a "Citizen Informant" program. This is exactly what happened in Germany in the '30s that gave rise to another dictator.

Wake up. Do your homework. Spend the time you normally would in slamming others who are concerned and study the datapoints of Obama's plan and implementation of this plan.

It is indeed scary and EVERY AMERICAN -- liberal and conservative -- should be very concerned.

Calls to McNerney's office are met by staff members who have been specifically instructed to tell us that he does not have any thing scheduled and that there is no plan for him to schedule meetings.

PLEASE KEEP CALLING! He needs to know that his constituents are now ENGAGED and that his, and Washington's, actions have woken a sleeping dragon!

Also, please plan to attend Pete Stark's town hall meeting on 8/15 at the Fremont Senior Center at 9 a.m. While McNerney will not be in attendance, you can be sure he will hear about it if we are there in a large enough number. Bring signs. Take pictures and send them to newspapers. Call and insist that the stories are reported and keep posting here. McNerney's office does read your comments and they know we are out here.

It's only until we have a large enough contingent that he will begin to consider positions other than those of the Democratic party, because he will know that his job is finally really in jeopardy!

Peaceful and respectful gatherings will send a message that we are AWAKE and that we will hold politicians accountable come election time.

Is Pete Stark your rep?

Emily:
Great work! You are taking a page out of Obama's Community Organizer handbook only using it against the Obama and McNerney MACHINE! Notice how the Obama Admin and the mainstream media are being highly critical of the NEW COMMUNITY ORGANIZING of TeaPartiers, TownHallers, etc. Now WE ARE THEIR PROBLEM!

These Obama Democrats like McNerney MUST BE DEFEATED.

Why should Rep McNerney waste his time having a town hall meeting that would most probably be hijacked by a group of screaming people who are not interested in asking questions and getting answers, but rather just disrupting the meeting so those of us who are interested in getting information, cannot be heard.

For those of you who are truly interested in contacting Rep McNerney with your concerns, comments and ideas, write to him via his official congressional e-mail at: Web Link

Don't let the people who scream about liberty and freedom take your voice away.

For those of you wanting a shot at McNerney, he is scheduled to speak to the Pleasanton Chamber Luncheon at 11:30 on Tuesday the 25th. He will probably cancel once word gets out. Can you imagine him trying to sell a bunch of struggling small business owners on the Healthcare Plan? Especially if he hasn't read it.

Exactly why the lunch will be cancelled! DUH! Lynch Mob Mentality!

To those who would like to simply write off those of us who want to question and be heard by our representatives as an "angry/lynch mob" I would suggest yours is a very narrow-minded perspective of the situation. I'd also question whether you are simply believing what is being reported on the biased main stream media, or if you are basing your "angry/lynch mob" assessment on your own personal experience of being at one of these town hall meetings.

You are very quick to accuse those who disagree with the Obama administration of being "led" by the right, but unless you have been present at these town hall meetings (which we all know you probably have not been unless you have actually travelled OUT OF THE BAY AREA to attend one), one could suggest that you are being "led" by what is said by the left.

There's no denying that the people who are showing up at these town hall meetings are unhappy with the legislation that is being proposed. But there is also no denying that our representatives are ignoring their constituents and are simply voting along party lines, regardless of way the people they were elected to represent have made clear that they feel.

Listen, I'd expect that if you were in my shoes, a person who strongly disagrees with what the current administration is doing, that you'd stand up and ask to be heard. Do you really expect anyone to believe that you wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing, with the same intensity, if the shoe were on the other foot????

Stacey,

Since you and I live in the SAME CITY, it's pretty ridiculous of you to ask the question. If you don't know who your representatives are, why not go do some research and find out for yourself?

BTW....you have never mentioned just how you and Cholo are related.

Regardless of how passionate and articulate you may be in any town-hall meeting on this issue...McNerney only cares about how this affects his political capital.

To most of the voting public in our district, his main positive attribute was that he wasn't Richard Pombo.

Sorry folks...gone are the days of strong, principled leadership.

Lot a good it does to talk to him. He is under control of Pelosi. He hasn't got the guts to vote against the socialist Medical Bill.

Emily,

Why is that a ridiculous question? Pete Stark represents a part of Pleasanton and I have no idea where in Pleasanton you live.

Emily,

Were you encouraging the Pleasanton residents who live in Stark's district to go to his town hall meeting or were you suggesting that Pleasanton constituents of McNerney are supposed to show up at Pete Stark's town hall meeting? That seems pretty unfair to Stark's constituents, no?

If McNerny won't speak with you, contact him through his website's "Volunteer" button, located near the top right of the screen. Use the simplest method to get to a politician, the old stick and carrot. When his staff contacts you to help raise money for his campaign, remind them that he is in his first-term, and the voters are watching, then follow through, if he opposes Obamacare, then vote for him. Web Link

Stacey,

My posts are pretty clear. And while you enjoy posting what you think are "thought-provoking" questions, you rarely address the point being discussed. Troll elsewhere.

Emily,

Then I'll address your point more directly. You wrote:

"Also, please plan to attend Pete Stark's town hall meeting on 8/15 at the Fremont Senior Center at 9 a.m. While McNerney will not be in attendance, you can be sure he will hear about it if we are there in a large enough number. Bring signs. Take pictures and send them to newspapers. Call and insist that the stories are reported and keep posting here. McNerney's office does read your comments and they know we are out here."

Your words make it look like you're trying to gather an angry mob of people who are not constituents of Stark's to crash his town hall meeting. You want to come off like a reasonable person, but what you're doing looks wingnut-ish. So don't be offended when people like me call you out on it.

Stacey,

Direct quote from the same post you quote:

"Peaceful and respectful gatherings will send a message that we are AWAKE and that we will hold politicians accountable come election time."

Since when did PEACEFUL & RESPECTFUL become "wingnut-ish"????

Hello Pot, this is Kettle. You're Black.

Emily,

So is your right-wing mob going to be so loud that the rest of us can't ask real questions? You don't want a real debate on healthcare, you just want to make noise.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt by asking you who your rep is, but you interpreted my question as ridiculous. You were right, I shouldn't beat around the bush like that in the name of trying to be civil. Basically, you're encouraging citizens from other districts to attend the town hall meeting of a district which is not their own and don't see what is wrong with that. While you may consider *your* intent to be peaceful and respectful, you cannot control those who attend. And you still haven't explained how fair that is to Stark's constituents. You say you want civil discussion yet you're encouraging the opposite and you're contributing to drowning out the serious concerns of Stark's constituents who want to have their own town hall meeting with their own rep.

You want a town hall meeting with YOUR rep that you're willing to go so far as to prevent others from having a town hall meeting with THEIR rep.

Stacey, I'm new to PW online, but I am a quick learner and I see that trolling is your MO. You'll get no further response from me.

I have to laugh at the Lib's on here complaining about the Right Wing and the so called "Wing Nuts". Why do they think that when they "the Lib's" protest they are just "concerned citizens" but conservatives are Wing Nut followers? People loke Freedom23 need to get a clue and understand we can't afford the health care reform being forced on us. Freedom23 quit following Nancy Pelosi like a lap dog. Ask questions like "How many Americans go to Canada for health care vs how many Canadains come to the US for health care?"

Pathetic people without communication skills get nowhere fast!

Emily,

Great! I love being called a troll! I hope you show up at Stark's meeting and they remove you for not being a constituent.

Eat Crow Pie ladies!

I would love to get to speak with Nancy McNerney. I also tried phoning Jerry Pelosi's office, but they were busy putting attack ads and talking points together. If the Dems follow through with this government takeover of our health care system, it should be an interesting election in 2010.

I heard a great comment today. "It took longer for Barack Obama to decide on a breed of dog, then he wants congress to take to debate the future of health care for the American people."

I called his office and the young lady who answered the phone said that no town hall was planned but to keep checking the website. She was very polite. Either she is extremely well trained and trying to be vague on purpose, or there is something in the works that isnt finalized. Either way, I will check the website.

I will say that McNerney is great about returning email correspondence, or at least his staff is. Of course virtually every piece of info I get in return are Obamunist talking points. But, he is our representative and does respond which is much appreciated.

Who is running against McNerney? I would like to lend a hand to any candidate who so the voters can put (at best) a conservative in the seat or (acceptable) a moderate democrat. He is aligned with the worst elements of the left wing movement and I certainly hope his term is over at the next election. He has voted wrong on almost every occasion, though luckily hasnt really done much else. I guess a lazy leftist does less damage than an active one.

Hi Paulrevere,

I too have called McNerney's office and have spoken to some very polite people. Unfortunately, they have few answers to difficult questions and very little information. Emails are answered with a canned response that Jerry has received my email and that my opinion is "very important to him." However, since my opinion differs from Ms. Pelosi's, I don't think my opinion counts for much in his book.

As for alternative candidates, I do not know anything about him, but I have started researching David Bernal from San Ramon. He has an exploratory committe researching the prospect of running for the 11th District seat currently filled by McNerney. I am encouraged by what I have seen so far, but want to be very clear that I am in no way endorsing him at this point. I am hoping that he will make a public appearance in the near future so that I can get a feel for who he is and where he stands on important issues.

His website is Web Link in case you are interested.

Emily,

First of all, and just between you and I (and a few fence posts), I have to tell you that you are absolutely, 100% correct. I've been reading your posts for a few days and, though I am not one to have such restraint, you are responding to the direct issues and you are more than reasonable (with a side of humor...my favorite).

On the other hand, here is the line of reasoning from the liberals with whom you've been dealing with: When you use facts, they use emotion and half truths. When you call them out on their false information, they namecall or reduce you to an emotional blob "angry mobs". They can't use facts - they just have their feet quaking and don't know what to do. They always want to keep you defensive because they know how wrong they are and they'll lie and do anything to stop from having to admit it.

As far as I am concerned, righteous anger is a good thing. I don't think the Revolutionary War was fought starting with songs of friendship and holding hands with the opposition. Thank you for telling the "progressives" (LOL!!!) to give it a rest and keeping them honest (or at least pointing them in the right direction).

It is so funny now that the shoe is on the other foot. When the Patriot Act came around, the squealing of the liberals was enough to awaken even deaf dogs. It was unbelievable. The riots, the day in and day out attacks on President Bush personally, the media's inaccurate reporting, were endless. 8 long years we endured their shrill voices and ridiculous cries for compassion and peace talks with people that want to KILL US. Funny how we are still in a war and yet...NO news coverage. Hmmmmmm....coinkydink? No.

Now it's their turn to have their leader criticized for having an all encompassing health care overhaul rammed down our throats and they think we should just swallow it or we are an "angry mom"? Okay, paranoid much? Yeah, it's like dealing with my manic depressive neighbor. You just know you need to slowly back away, change the subject, and continue on your way.

I appreciate your energy. It is not for nothing.

Keep fighting the good fight!

No Obamanomics,

No Obamacare,

No Obamunists,

No Obamanation.
No

To Alison,

"On the other hand, here is the line of reasoning from the liberals with whom you've been dealing with: When you use facts, they use emotion and half truths. When you call them out on their false information, they namecall or reduce you to an emotional blob "angry mobs". They can't use facts - they just have their feet quaking and don't know what to do. They always want to keep you defensive because they know how wrong they are and they'll lie and do anything to stop from having to admit it."

Alison, you are insulting a lot of educated adults that are productive members of the community with your words.

These are more words I would expect from a frustrated teen.

Sharron,

It's not my problem if my telling the truth is insulting to you or any other "educated adults that are productive members of the community." Maybe you should investigate why you are "insulted".

"These are more words I would expect from a frustrated teen."

Thanks for making my point.

Alison,

Wow....thank you for your post!

It is good to see that someone else recognizes the hypocrisy that's got its grip on some folks. I have to tell you, I am all for everyone having an opinion, but I have little tolerance for those who live by "do as I say, not as I do." How does one justify protesting for something they believe in the name of "exercising their Constitutional right" and turn around and label others who speak their minds as "angry/lynch mobs?" My 5th grade son could point out that double-standard!

You know, I've seen some well-worded responses and others not so much so, but no one has answered this question: If this health care plan is so good for America, why won't Congress give up their expensive, all-encompasing coverage and sign on for what they are trying to force upon us?

Aren't there any liberals out there who wonder what is it about this plan that makes it fine for American citizens, yet not good enough for the people we elected to represent us? I mean, really, if its so desperately needed and so beneficial for people, what reason could Congress possibly have for not taking it for them, their families, and their staff? Really, what possible reason is there that Congress should they have the best coverage possible and ask us to settle for less than? Republican, Democrat, Conservative or Liberal, can't we all agree that if it's good enough for us then it's good enough for them?

I agree with the idea that Congress should use the same health plan, but why does it take a town hall meeting to communicate that? Why should citizens show up at Stark's town hall meeting when he isn't their rep and take the time away from Stark's constituents? Call me a troll if you want again.

Emily,

I could talk to you all day! Wow, reading your posts is like reading the thoughts I have, but haven't written yet! I might be complimenting myself too much...

I'm on board with your Congress ducking the Obamacare comment. But there is more hypocrisy than just that these days...

My favorite "liberal hypocrisy" theory is what I fondly refer to as the "Yes, but..." Hypocrisy movement of liberals. I'm referencing the comments made about any mistake a liberal has made and their justifying it by anyone else's mistakes - particularly that of the opposition. For example, Us:"Obama has us 4 TRILLION in debt", Them:"Well Bush did it, too." What? It was either wrong or it was right.

Um, okay, what do you do with that logic or more accurately, that "reasoning" devoid of logic? I mean if they thought it was wrong when Bush did it, then how can they stomach going from 1.3TRILLION to 4 TRILLION? Hello, Anna Nicole just called and she wants her brain back.

My next personal favorite is when they comment that Bush came into office with a surplus - then discounting the cost of the war by saying we shouldn't have been there. The illogical hole they dig get's bigger and blacker by the second.

Liberals don't live by principles. They live by emotion flitting from one guilt-trip to another, forcing their most recent enlightenment onto the rest of us via laws and demand respect if they went to college or are in a union.

Case in point in this forum alone, my new fan Sharron stated, "you are insulting a lot of educated adults that are productive members of the community with your words." (she forgot to use, "Young Lady!").

So following her line of reasoning, I need to step aside and keep quiet because she and/or others are "educated"? So in her line of counsel, IF I have the higher educational degree between she and I then do I then get to have my say now? Do only educated people get to contribute to the conversation? I actually have a Master's Degree and I'm the first in my family to attend college, too. I would NEVER think like that. WOW.

The double standard, hypocritical, fuzzy math, fuzzy logic, dizzying arguments on the left are so over exposed it is pathetic. All they have left is, "Na, na, na, na, na...we have the White House and we're winning!". They remind me of the cheerleader who is gloating on the field and then gets pummled by the opposing team. Pure spectacle.

If you don't mind, I also would like to add to your new list of questions for liberals...

I'd like to know ONE government program that's intended to care/serve the majority of citizens in the U.S. where more than 50% of us will access it daily, that is proven to be working efficiently and isn't close to going broke. Name one. Just one.

Sorry, mine is a trick question for liberals, because there aren't any. I know - not a fair fight. But they are "certain" that they can get this healthcare "right" because it is so "Like, Totally" important. What, then, are they saying about the other programs that aren't working - they aren't important enough to get right? Yeah, no one was counting on that Social Security, right?

It really is so simple that it is mind boggling that liberals can't understand it. What Obama and his closest friends want to do to the people of the US is what is also known as incrementalism. It is the same principle behind boiling a frog on the stove. If you throw a frog in boiling water, it will immediately jump out. However, if you follow the principle of incrementalism, then you place a frog in cool water in a pot on the stove and then you slowly increase the heat - eventually you can kill the frog and he never even tried to jump out.

The same principle is in play here with Obama and his socialism agenda. In this example, we're the frog, government programs is the water in the pot, Obama and his crew are the Cooks, and socialism is the resultant pot of boiling water. He knows the majority of Americans would never stand for a single payer system right now, heck, Congress won't even do it as you so aptly pointed out. But rather than trying to make a big "change" all at once, he instead is going to make many small changes over time that lead to the end result he and his lunatic friends desire: Drumroll... Ta-da!! Socialism! Incrementalism is an effective tool in an environment where people are resistant to "change": Otherwise known as Conservatives.

Yes, we know when we smell a rat and this one is bigger than the sewer rats in New York City under China town.

This is where the "right-wing nut jobs, mobs, hate mongers, religious freaks, and racists", comes in. We've exposed their facts. They retaliate with character attacks - because that is all they have left. Blame one of us, they devise, and you blame all. Pick out the Republican who has violated their own code of conduct and you can paint the rest of them with the same brush, or so they think. The problem is that they have just as many, no, more people with "issues" shall we say on their side. The difference? We actually hold ourselves to standards. The liberals don't fall as far or as hard because they never held themselves up to any virtues. At least we aspire...

Keep fighting the good fight, Emily! We are on the right side!

"Liberals don't live by principles. They live by emotion flitting from one guilt-trip to another, forcing their most recent enlightenment onto the rest of us via laws and demand respect if they went to college or are in a union."

Alison,

Are you talking to your self? Are you the woman that I pulled over, that had a hundred pills spill out of her purse when she pulled her license out?

Stay off the local roads, PLEASE!

TopCop,

"Are you talking to your self? Are you the woman that I pulled over, that had a hundred pills spill out of her purse when she pulled her license out?"

Like I said, "They retaliate with character attacks - because that is all they have left."

It's like shooting fish in a barrel... *Yawn*

Alison,

I am republican Conservative that doesn't like baseless trash talk!

Emily = A Mental! I'm so tickled by this, Emily = A Mental!

If you folks can't get along, go back to where your ancestors came from...the sewer...tee hee hee, tee hee hee...

Emily is a male cucaracha and missy alli is her lover!

Ping...Pong! Hoorat!!!!!!!!

Web Link


Southern Poverty Law Center Report on Rise in Right Wing Racism & Violence.

Alison,

I'm going to have to be short, but had to tell you how much I enjoyed reading your post and found truth in just about everything you said. Your points are well-formed, cleverly articulated, and put forth in a truly enjoyable manner (from my perspective). With that being said, I am prepared to be slammed for the mutual admiration society we have going on here, though I hope that anyone who does so comes up with something a little better than a "male cucaracha".

It's truly unfortunate that both political parties have abused the power and control that comes with the job. Republicans have done plenty to earn the distrust that the American people have in them, and the Democrats certainly aren't learning much from their lessons. It's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Southern Poverty Law Center Report:

Web Link

Alison and Emily are either Dike lovers, which is fine, or I more suspect they are ONE medicated person.

TopCop,

You said: "I am republican Conservative that doesn't like baseless trash talk!"

Then you should stop posting your comments on this forum.

Emily,

There's another thread over here Web Link and Mark has some great thoughts and info in his posts.

I also wanted to show you an interesting exchange between two posters...one is our "favorite". It just shows you what is at the heart of her argument and why she was incessantly challenging your right to speak to our elected officials. Web Link

We should make a plan to "visit" Mr. McNerney as you suggested earlier in a post on this thread. I'd like to share a few of my thoughts with him personally and I'm sure you have a few to convey as well. Let me know if you'd like to get a group together to go to Fremont or other...

I'm a conservative (shhh...it's a secret...wink), but I have been very disappointed with the Republicans as well - for the exact reasons you described above. It is time to get out a standardized message of sound, time-tested, original American principles and live in freedom and peace.

I'm really appreciative of your comments also. Please don't go anywhere... Keep your spunk and comment coming, and ignore the distractions - we're going to win this round so we can really get things changed for the better.

Alison,

I'm glad that you are trying to understand my arguments. It is sad to see you characterize it as "challenging your right to speak to our elected officials". I did no such thing. Unless you live over in Valley Trails and Highland Oaks area, Pete Stark is not your elected official and based upon Emily's response to me when I asked her if he was, I can conclude that she doesn't live in that area. I even posted earlier on another thread encouraging everyone to try to call and make an appointment with McNerney. Those who truly care about the issue will not let the lack of a town hall meeting stand in their way.

If you didn't like the Oak Grove project as approved by the Pleasanton City Council, you wouldn't go to Dublin and complain at their City Hall about it. Well, maybe you would.

Alison,

I will be at the Fremont meeting, despite "concerns" about whether I have a right to be there or not. I woke up this morning and I was still in America, so as long as that's the case, I'll be there to hear what is being said. And if given the opportunity to do so, I will (again) PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY, exercise my 1st Amendment rights.

I have to applaud Mr. Stark for something...atleast he has the guts to stand up for what he believes in, unlike my official representative, Mr. McNerney (whose town hall meetings are the only ones I am viewed as being "allowed to attend).

Hope to see you there! If you can think of a way we can identify ourselves to each other, I'd love to meet you face to face.

Emily and Alison,

I have no doubt that by carrying the belief, or would it be a picket sign, that your ideas are the only right ones ("We are on the right side"), surrounded by your air of superiority ("We actually hold ourselves to standards"), and each wearing your cloaks of righteousness ("I woke up this morning and I was still in America"), you will easily be able to identify each other.

You know Rae, you aren't doing yourself any favors by validating the points Alison and I have been making.

You really should consider the hypocrisy in your statement.

By calling our ideas "the only right ones" you imply that what we say is wrong, thereby evidencing that you believe that yours is the only right way to think.

Moreover, you prove Alisons point of "when you use facts, they use emotion and half truths. When you call them out on their false information, they namecall". Case in point, your "air of superiority" and "cloaks of righteousness" comment.

Gee Emily,

(and Alison since you two seem to speak with one mind, ie. "reading your posts is like reading the thoughts I have, but haven't written yet"), they were your words (hence the quotation marks), taken verbatim out of your comments.

Speaking of "hypocrisy", perhaps you should review what you wrote, and if the shoe fits . . .

Rae,

Ever heard the phrase "like-minded people?" There are many people in this forum who agree with one another, and many who do not. I'm gathering you have an issue with me agreeing with someone else, but you fail to clearly articulate why. Please do not take this as a request for you to do so. I for one am willing to agree to disagree.

However, I would caution you against the blanket generalization that just because two people agree with one another on a limited number of issues that they "seem to speak with one mind." Doing so severely limits your credibility and gives the impression that you are unwilling to consider valid the opinions of those whose differ from your own.

Emily wrote:

"reading your posts is like reading the thoughts I have, but haven't written yet"

Rae wrote:

"Emily and Alison since you two seem to speak with one mind, ie. "reading your posts is like reading the thoughts I have, but haven't written yet"), they were your words (hence the quotation marks), taken verbatim out of your comments."

Emily wrote:

"I would caution you against the blanket generalization that just because two people agree with one another on a limited number of issues that they "seem to speak with one mind." Doing so severely limits your credibility and gives the impression that you are unwilling to consider valid the opinions of those whose differ from your own."

_ _ _ _ _

My comments:

Both Emily and Alison pretty much hijacked the thread and proceeded to have a long winded one on one conversation directed towards one another. It would appear easily that they are one in the same, but who knows.

It is quite clear to me that they seem to be chasing their own tail. Both Emily and Alison have a set standard of how they think people “should” respond to them and communicate in general and anything less than a response at their level of standard, is un acceptable to them.

Let’s think about this for a minute!

TopCop,

At the risk of "hijacking" this thread, I have to respond with this question:

If your position is to be valid, how to you explain how I kept all the other people with access to this forum from expressing their opinions so that Alison and I could use it as our own personal chatroom???

I'd also point out that the quote that you reference me with making above was not something that I wrote. The error aside, your objective to label me was not lost.

Emily,

Here is the topic on this thread:


"Is McNerney Dodging His Constituents?"

Here is the question that was posed:

"Your feedback on whether you get the runaround would be of interest to all."

So really we all have a habit of getting "off topic" and using these discussions to "flame bait" and take pot shots at those that oppose our own political views lately.

I think this whole political situation is very frustrating to all of us!

Emily,

LOL!!! You are absolutely right! You and Alison are definitely "like-minded people", and I'm sure you'll find additional "like-minded people" at whoever's meeting you choose to "peacefully and respectfully" attend - even if that particular representative is not your elected representative.

Me? I think my concerns, questions and ideas about the issues we're facing are better shared with the elected Representatives and Senators who actually represent me . . . not at a meeting with someone else's representative, and certainly not on an on-line forum. I prefer to stay on target, so I will continue to directly contact Rep McNerney, as well as Senators Feinstein and Boxer.

But hey, you and Alison have fun now, y'hear?!! LOL!!!

TopCop,

We definitely agree on the frustration part. If nothing else, that is one area I think a great deal of folks can agree on.

Discussion forums often start with a topic that evolves, for better or worse. They have a life of their own, and then eventually die off when people lose interest or have nothing left to say.

What's really important is that we all have the choice to voice our opinion. Flaming and pot shots are unfortunate consequences, but like we each have the choice to state our opinion, we also have the choice to ignore those who chose to inflame or incite.

Fortunately, it looks like you and I can put our differences in opinion aside and have a reasonable exchange, and for that I am appreciative.

Emily,

I'll type more info later, but you have been awesome this morning! :)

I have an idea how we can get in contact for the Town Hall, etc without being harrassed further. But I in no means plan to check my opinion at the door on this forum. I don't plan to ever sit back and take it when the founding principles of our nation are being supressed. And this forum - it's for all - the problem people seem to have with you and I (and mark and Ken and countless others like us on this forum), is they are not used to hearing another position or having to defend themselves with facts in their daily lives. They are too used to being "spoken to" and told what to think by these so-called news outlets they are at a loss of what to do. It's tough for them when they can't defend their position like we can with real facts.

I'll post more later!

Have a super day!

I agree with a few posters who said that we should keep this civil. The name calling is just silly.

But I also found it hilarious that most of the liberals seem to believe that their opinions have a basis in fact. There is nothing wrong with thinking with your emotions, but liberalism runs on how policies "feel" for the most part. Conservative thought is typically based on fact. Each must choose how they want to approach what is best for the country. Idealism vs. realism is a succinct way to put it.
In my humble opinion, liberals try to work toward how they wish the world was. Like the whole "sharing" concept which drives the redistribution of wealth idea. In concept, everyone works hard and everyone should share the results. What this notion fails to consider is that there are many lazy people who would like to share in what others produce, but do not want to be productive themselves. It also fails to recognize that as taxes increase, especially on high income earners who already pay more than their share of taxes then productivity decreases. Why would someone work harder if they see a higher and higher percentage going to taxes which then end up in the hands of those who are not economically productive members of society?

One concept that I think defines the two schools of thought is that liberals believe in equality of outcome. No matter what you put into life and the economy, you deserve the same outcome as everyone else. Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity. Everyone should have the same opportunity to succeed, and those that do succeed shouldn't be punished and have their income taken and given to those who dont. As long as everyone gets a fair shot, the system is fair and those that do not succeed shouldn't be rewarded.

Anyway, I like this string and people sharing ideas. However, I wonder if anyone on this forum has changed their mind after reading other people's posts? I started reading believing strongly in a conservative approach to governing the country, which obviously Rep McNerney doesn't agree with, and continue to feel the same way. Those who believe that the Messiah, Pelosi, and our congressman are doing the right thing for the country and undoing the "evils" of the Bush administration still feel the same way. So at the end of the day, no one has really changed sides. I love politics and pay close attention to it. I discuss it all the time with friends and people I run into. I dont think that I have every changed anyone's mind though....

Bush used to say that Cindy Sheehan was "exercising her right to freedom of speech" (paraphrased) when she'd camp in front of his ranch all month with her supporters. Obama and his gang call those average Americans who choose to exercise that same right "extremists" and "organized mobs".

Chicago mob tactics: demonize the opposition.

Emily,

We are all under stress for a number of reasons at present.
Yes we can be quite heated at any given moment, as that is human nature and trust me I see this daily in my line of work.

"Fortunately, it looks like you and I can put our differences in opinion aside and have a reasonable exchange, and for that I am appreciative."

That's where I was heading with this, as we are all frustrated and all human!

Paul Revere,

“I agree with a few posters who said that we should keep this civil. The name calling is just silly. “

---It does not appear by your comments that YOU truly believe your own words?
“But I also found it hilarious that most of the liberals seem to believe that their opinions have a basis in fact. There is nothing wrong with thinking with your emotions, but liberalism runs on how policies "feel" for the most part. Conservative thought is typically based on fact. Each must choose how they want to approach what is best for the country. Idealism vs. realism is a succinct way to put it.”

---Psychological analyst, after years of study, have the observation that in fact Republicans and Conservative are far more emotional and fear based than Democratic Liberals. What do you think got Bush elected for a second term? Four years of Fear Mongering and convincing citizens that we would not be SAFE under Democratic Liberal leadership. His entire presidential agenda and focus was “WAR ON TERROR”! I will try and find the studies for you, if you are interested.

---The rest of your assumptions are really just far out opinion, as MANY Liberals are extremely well educated, analytical Lawyers, Professors and Business Professionals. Liberals tend to have careers based upon logic, reason and fact based evidence that is paramount to factual analysis, rather than emotion.
“In my humble opinion, liberals try to work toward how they wish the world was. Like the whole "sharing" concept which drives the redistribution of wealth idea. In concept, everyone works hard and everyone should share the results. What this notion fails to consider is that there are many lazy people who would like to share in what others produce, but do not want to be productive themselves. It also fails to recognize that as taxes increase, especially on high income earners who already pay more than their share of taxes then productivity decreases. Why would someone work harder if they see a higher and higher percentage going to taxes which then end up in the hands of those who are not economically productive members of society?”

---Liberals also tend to work in the fields of mental health and social related professions. Instead of dwelling on what’s wrong with the world and being angry, Liberals tend to take action. Liberals tend to spend time taking action for causes they believe in. I really feel that Conservative have Liberal in a narrow box, that is just not suitable or the Liberal reality! And DO keep in mind that MANY consider themselves Conservative Liberals and share many of YOUR beliefs!
“One concept that I think defines the two schools of thought is that liberals believe in equality of outcome. No matter what you put into life and the economy, you deserve the same outcome as everyone else. Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity. Everyone should have the same opportunity to succeed, and those that do succeed shouldn't be punished and have their income taken and given to those who don’t. As long as everyone gets a fair shot, the system is fair and those that do not succeed shouldn't be rewarded.”

---- I just do not agree with your observation and analysis on this one! Too complex to go deep into this issue, but you are flat out wrong.
“Everyone should have the same opportunity to succeed”
Have YOU read the Constitution?

Emily,

There was an amazing and shocking piece of news today on the rationing of healthcare and who really loses out. Every day that goes by, more details emerge that just overwhelm any argument for a public plan.

On a related note, the news also reported today that the USPS is flat broke. Just add that to the other bankrupt government managed programs: MediCare, MediCal, and SS, just to name some other relative systems. I didn't even touch the Public Education system.

Obama thinks he somehow can overcome that and guarantee that a healthcare program won't go bankrupt resulting in eventual rationed care? I'm sure those that installed the other programs didn't think it would happen either. But the reality is they did - they have. I wouldn't want to risk our healthcare with odds like that! Who would? That is the choice.

I'm currently preparing my comments to share with Mr. McNerney, who I still hope will conduct a Town Hall Meeting in our own district, but I'm pretty focused on being heard - no matter what the arbitrary district lines that were drawn say. In fact, I'm happy to wait until the very end when everyone else has had their say, so as not to trample on the rights of his constituents, as our favorite critic pointed out.

It's our Constitutional right to state our opinion and we shouldn't have to wait on bated breath for an opportunity that our Rep, in all probability, won't provide. I need to call his office again, but the last I did, someone was going to need to contact me to set up an appointment and she didn't know when that would be. I'll do it again and see if I can get any further info. By the way, Emily, I set up an account if you would like to contact me at alisonwright01(at)gmail(dot)com.

"Emily,




There was an amazing and shocking piece of news today on the rationing of healthcare and who really loses out. Every day that goes by, more details emerge that just overwhelm any argument for a public plan"


Come on Alison, this is a public forum, not a phone call!


The suspense is killing us! Are YOU NOt the gal who suggested people use Facts etc. when making statements?

Well, we are ALL ears on this one?

Ali, Are you kidding?


"There was an amazing and shocking piece of news today on the rationing of healthcare and who really loses out. Every day that goes by, more details emerge that just overwhelm any argument for a public plan"

It depends on where one gets their "news"

Either second hand or first hand, with the ability to understand the legal jargons in the Bill.

There is NO "amazing and shocking piece of news today on the rationing of healthcare and who really loses out" as the Bill is public information and accessible.

“Every day that goes by, more details emerge that just overwhelm any argument for a public plan.”

More details only emerge to those getting the second hand information. Those reading the actual bill, with the ability to interpret the language can make their own educated hypothesis.

hey Alison...

Do you really feel that you are the best qualified spokewoman to wrap up any discussion on the bill?

You wrote...

--I'm currently preparing my comments to share with Mr. McNerney, who I still hope will conduct a Town Hall Meeting in our own district, but I'm pretty focused on being heard - no matter what the arbitrary district lines that were drawn say. In fact, I'm happy to wait until the very end when everyone else has had their say, so as not to trample on the rights of his constituents, as our favorite critic pointed out.---

Um-Ug!

Drive By:

You said: "Come on Alison, this is a public forum, not a phone call!
The suspense is killing us! Are YOU NOt the gal who suggested people use Facts etc. when making statements? Well, we are ALL ears on this one?"

I kept it brief and directed my comments to Emily because TopCop previously wrote: "Both Emily and Alison pretty much hijacked the thread and proceeded to have a long winded one on one conversation directed towards one another."

Listen, I'm not going to be your online "Cliff Notes". You can work out my topic on your own if it interests you. Here's a clue in your research: Eugenics and The Complete Lives System.

I just know you'll be promptly investigating these theories and I am even more certain that you will honesty appraise these theories relative to a public health program that is ran - even if just in part - by the government.

The "facts" that you claim you are interested in, and as you will see via your own thorough research, is that once you have the population on a public health program, and you run out of money, the only way to cut costs is to cut care. These "theories" are the go-to plans in those inevitable circumstances, by those who are guiding our esteemed president.

Happy researching!

Question:

One with a world view of a social hierarchy, as your post language suggests, may not think so, but based on the law, my opinion is just as valid and equal to any other - even yours.

Thanks for the opportunity to encourage everyone to voice their input!

Law Student,

To answer the only question within your post:

No.

By the way, the style of your posts have reminded me of someone for a while and I finally just realized who: Web Link

Alison,

Thank you for the compliment, but I don’t consider myself to have even close to Bill Clinton’s legal experience. Although I will say, I have met the man and I have great respect for him on a certain level.

What a coward ...he is having a "phone" town hall meeting??? WTF!

That is crazy....FACE THE PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT COWARD!

Hillary Clinton said it was "patriotic to dissent" (listen to her at this link)

Web Link

It is wholly transparent and ridiculously argued that now with the Democrats in power, suddenly dissention isn't "patriotic" any longer. In some twisted one-way only logic it is racist or barbaric.

It was appreciable when Hillary demonstrated an increase in her volume and intensity to exclaim her support for the dissent of our then administration - but now if anyone else dares demonstrate any tone or volume in disagreement with this healthcare reform idea, or Mr. Obama, they are described and characterized as an angry mob - or worse.

If you are afraid that you will not be able to control your message or more accurately what your constituents think, Mr. McNerney, perhaps you should resign. If you are fearful for your safety from those you represent, perhaps you should organize a town hall and phone in for yourself. If not, you should just state that you want to deprive your constituents the right to assemble, protest, disagree or represent their viewpoints - their Constitutionally guaranteed right.

If I am wrong on any count above, then please, schedule a live town hall meeting for your constituents. I personally know my neighbors and I am absolutely convinced none of them are capable of any violence nor would any be considered what would remotely be described as demonstrating a mob mentality.

So please Mr. McNerney, which is it? A live town hall meeting where we can ask questions and honestly share the full spectrum of our views and concerns or a phone consultation with predetermined questions and answers?