News

Pleasanton face mask mandate fails

City Council opts for public education over issuing citations

To increase community awareness and encourage more people to wear face masks in public, the Pleasanton City Council voted 4-1 on Tuesday to enhance public messaging instead of issue citations during the COVID-19 pandemic.

"I prefer more of the education process the city of Pleasanton has been doing, and I think the data shows it works," said Mayor Karla Brown before voting. "If punitive (measures) worked, nobody would ever speed ... a threat doesn't always work."

Debating late into the night, Vice Mayor Julie Testa -- who advocated unsuccessfully a couple of times with then-mayor Jerry Thorne to officially agendize mask enforcement last year -- cast the sole No vote on the council's second motion Tuesday, which included additional signage and reminding residents about the importance of wearing face coverings in public areas.

Face masks must already be worn by all employees and visitors inside city offices and facilities, but City Manager Nelson Fialho said the original proposal -- which failed 2-3, with Testa and Councilmember Valerie Arkin voting Yes -- would have allowed police officers to "issue administrative citations to individuals or businesses in locations we see as areas of concern."

According to Fialho, those areas include city-owned property such as parks and outdoor recreation areas, "and then downtown Pleasanton specifically."

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"I think the rationale there was, for staff, that is a heavily traveled area, especially when we get ready to close Main Street again in the spring and into the summer months, that we may want a more focused enforcement and compliance effort in that area," Fialho said.

Some residents told Testa that they tried going downtown this summer but said there were enough people not wearing masks that they weren't going to continue to support the restaurants.

"That's important, and I think people should be able to feel safe," Testa said.

Dublin and Livermore are among the cities in Alameda County that have adopted administrative fine structures for similar citations, but Fialho said their enforcement effort "has mostly been focused on businesses."

"Dublin has issued less than 10 citations, all of which have been against businesses in non-compliance," Fialho said. "Cooks, waiters -- things of that nature -- not wearing masks while working has been sort of the common theme there, and then Livermore has issued no citations, either to businesses or to the public."

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When it comes to mask enforcement, Alameda County's order "makes any violation of the order a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment or both to be pursued by the district attorney," according to a staff report.

Councilmember Kathy Narum said she wasn't "really convinced it's a deterrent."

"I'm not sure that I'm ready to have our police necessarily answering a bunch of calls getting people to wear a mask," Narum said, adding she still "absolutely" supported continued education and additional signage -- especially with improved visuals, because "sometimes I think our signs are too wordy."

Testa said that signage "would be a great addition to an ordinance, but the signage isn't going to change, isn't going to make a difference right now."

"We've already got signage going and everyone knows; they just know that there's no teeth to what those signs say, so it doesn't matter," she said. "The enforcement mechanism will be the deterrent, that will make a difference."

Noting the "gatekeepers" who take visitors' temperatures before they can step inside City Hall, Testa continued, "Aren't we responsible to maintain a safe environment for our residents? How can we set a double standard there?"

Who would be responsible for issuing citations was also a matter of consideration Tuesday evening.

A number of community services and parking enforcement officers, as well as volunteers, are normally dispatched by the Pleasanton Police Department during non-COVID times. However, Fialho said "our volunteers are not in operation currently because they're mostly older and retired, so for safety reasons we've temporarily paused that program."

The job description for the city's community services officers also does not allow them to issue citations.

"To allow them to do that, we would have to engage in what's called a meet-and-confer process with their represented labor organization, and that takes time, and sometimes the outcomes are not swift or desirable to the city," Fialho said.

Parking enforcement officers are limited to parking enforcement activities, and "beyond that, we have one code enforcement officer" that "for a city of our size, is mostly involved in nuisance abatement and other property related activities," he added.

Resident Paulette Salisbury called the proposed ordinance "unethical and unconstitutional" during the public hearing, and said the decision to wear a mask "is a highly personal one and should not be universally mandated."

"All of these measures, while they may be well-attended, have undermined our ability to act as free and independent citizens," Salisbury said. "Since none of you are medical doctors, you're not in a position to dictate or advise on appropriate medical interventions for me and my family."

Local health care worker Nicole Dennis supported mandatory masks in public spaces, especially parks, and expressed concern about the lack of enforcement by the city while the community is also asking local schools to reopen.

"Unfortunately, the infection rates have increased despite the education approach that the city has taken," Dennis said. "It concerns me when I see mixed groups of kids playing in the parks playing basketball, playing volleyball without masks, to then ask the teachers to return to school and expose themselves and their families to risk of infection as well as other kids that are following the CDC guidelines."

Arkin, who recently left the Pleasanton school board after 12 years for her new council position, was the only council member besides Testa who supported the proposed mask mandate. Arkin revealed one of her children had COVID-19 before and "it was very serious, made me very, very worried."

"I would have loved to have my kid fined for not wearing a mask because they did not wear a mask," Arkin said. "It could have been $1,000 fine; it would have been worth it to me for her to get fined so that she would not have gotten it. Because now she has to live with knowing that there could be health ramifications for the rest of her life."

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Pleasanton face mask mandate fails

City Council opts for public education over issuing citations

by / Pleasanton Weekly

Uploaded: Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:38 pm

To increase community awareness and encourage more people to wear face masks in public, the Pleasanton City Council voted 4-1 on Tuesday to enhance public messaging instead of issue citations during the COVID-19 pandemic.

"I prefer more of the education process the city of Pleasanton has been doing, and I think the data shows it works," said Mayor Karla Brown before voting. "If punitive (measures) worked, nobody would ever speed ... a threat doesn't always work."

Debating late into the night, Vice Mayor Julie Testa -- who advocated unsuccessfully a couple of times with then-mayor Jerry Thorne to officially agendize mask enforcement last year -- cast the sole No vote on the council's second motion Tuesday, which included additional signage and reminding residents about the importance of wearing face coverings in public areas.

Face masks must already be worn by all employees and visitors inside city offices and facilities, but City Manager Nelson Fialho said the original proposal -- which failed 2-3, with Testa and Councilmember Valerie Arkin voting Yes -- would have allowed police officers to "issue administrative citations to individuals or businesses in locations we see as areas of concern."

According to Fialho, those areas include city-owned property such as parks and outdoor recreation areas, "and then downtown Pleasanton specifically."

"I think the rationale there was, for staff, that is a heavily traveled area, especially when we get ready to close Main Street again in the spring and into the summer months, that we may want a more focused enforcement and compliance effort in that area," Fialho said.

Some residents told Testa that they tried going downtown this summer but said there were enough people not wearing masks that they weren't going to continue to support the restaurants.

"That's important, and I think people should be able to feel safe," Testa said.

Dublin and Livermore are among the cities in Alameda County that have adopted administrative fine structures for similar citations, but Fialho said their enforcement effort "has mostly been focused on businesses."

"Dublin has issued less than 10 citations, all of which have been against businesses in non-compliance," Fialho said. "Cooks, waiters -- things of that nature -- not wearing masks while working has been sort of the common theme there, and then Livermore has issued no citations, either to businesses or to the public."

When it comes to mask enforcement, Alameda County's order "makes any violation of the order a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment or both to be pursued by the district attorney," according to a staff report.

Councilmember Kathy Narum said she wasn't "really convinced it's a deterrent."

"I'm not sure that I'm ready to have our police necessarily answering a bunch of calls getting people to wear a mask," Narum said, adding she still "absolutely" supported continued education and additional signage -- especially with improved visuals, because "sometimes I think our signs are too wordy."

Testa said that signage "would be a great addition to an ordinance, but the signage isn't going to change, isn't going to make a difference right now."

"We've already got signage going and everyone knows; they just know that there's no teeth to what those signs say, so it doesn't matter," she said. "The enforcement mechanism will be the deterrent, that will make a difference."

Noting the "gatekeepers" who take visitors' temperatures before they can step inside City Hall, Testa continued, "Aren't we responsible to maintain a safe environment for our residents? How can we set a double standard there?"

Who would be responsible for issuing citations was also a matter of consideration Tuesday evening.

A number of community services and parking enforcement officers, as well as volunteers, are normally dispatched by the Pleasanton Police Department during non-COVID times. However, Fialho said "our volunteers are not in operation currently because they're mostly older and retired, so for safety reasons we've temporarily paused that program."

The job description for the city's community services officers also does not allow them to issue citations.

"To allow them to do that, we would have to engage in what's called a meet-and-confer process with their represented labor organization, and that takes time, and sometimes the outcomes are not swift or desirable to the city," Fialho said.

Parking enforcement officers are limited to parking enforcement activities, and "beyond that, we have one code enforcement officer" that "for a city of our size, is mostly involved in nuisance abatement and other property related activities," he added.

Resident Paulette Salisbury called the proposed ordinance "unethical and unconstitutional" during the public hearing, and said the decision to wear a mask "is a highly personal one and should not be universally mandated."

"All of these measures, while they may be well-attended, have undermined our ability to act as free and independent citizens," Salisbury said. "Since none of you are medical doctors, you're not in a position to dictate or advise on appropriate medical interventions for me and my family."

Local health care worker Nicole Dennis supported mandatory masks in public spaces, especially parks, and expressed concern about the lack of enforcement by the city while the community is also asking local schools to reopen.

"Unfortunately, the infection rates have increased despite the education approach that the city has taken," Dennis said. "It concerns me when I see mixed groups of kids playing in the parks playing basketball, playing volleyball without masks, to then ask the teachers to return to school and expose themselves and their families to risk of infection as well as other kids that are following the CDC guidelines."

Arkin, who recently left the Pleasanton school board after 12 years for her new council position, was the only council member besides Testa who supported the proposed mask mandate. Arkin revealed one of her children had COVID-19 before and "it was very serious, made me very, very worried."

"I would have loved to have my kid fined for not wearing a mask because they did not wear a mask," Arkin said. "It could have been $1,000 fine; it would have been worth it to me for her to get fined so that she would not have gotten it. Because now she has to live with knowing that there could be health ramifications for the rest of her life."

Comments

Pete
Registered user
Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 17, 2021 at 2:36 pm
Pete, Another Pleasanton neighborhood
Registered user
on Feb 17, 2021 at 2:36 pm

The decision was a good vote...! What are we going to do...criminalize underage children at parks? What ages groups should PPD prioritize? Using fine money for the arts...was mentioned by speaker. Are we crazy...?
Police officers being a support mechanism within an educated community, offers a better alternative...personal choice to handout/offer mask if concern is warranted.
A child/young adults behavior is best kept under a parents guidance/direction...at least in Pleasanton. Being an uncle to over 40 nieces/new fews, the range of parental practices to teach is widely varied...from strict to lenient. These tend to be judge mental times in all areas of life. Allow PPD to do what they do best. Parents/businesses take ownership of your family/business and personal responsibility toward others. That’s LEADERSHIP...!


Tracy Dunne
Registered user
another community
on Feb 17, 2021 at 4:11 pm
Tracy Dunne, another community
Registered user
on Feb 17, 2021 at 4:11 pm

Your right to personal freedom neither extends nor allows you to infect me with a potentially deadly virus. Politicizing a public health issue is quite shameful.


Rishabh Raj
Registered user
Las Positas
on Feb 17, 2021 at 7:59 pm
Rishabh Raj, Las Positas
Registered user
on Feb 17, 2021 at 7:59 pm

I hope we don't, but we may come to regret this decision by the council in the future


John
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 17, 2021 at 9:01 pm
John, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 17, 2021 at 9:01 pm

If you want to wear a mask, wear one. If you do not want to wear a mask then do not. Just remember, it is like no shoes, no shirt, no service. If you do not wear a mask you are not allowed in places that require one. If you see someone without a mask just avoid them. Life is full of choices. Make your choice and live it.


Pleasanton Parent
Registered user
Pleasanton Meadows
on Feb 18, 2021 at 12:03 am
Pleasanton Parent, Pleasanton Meadows
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 12:03 am

Rishabh,
Nope, no we will not. Keep your fear mongering out of Pleasanton


Pleasanton Parent
Registered user
Pleasanton Heights
on Feb 18, 2021 at 10:15 am
Pleasanton Parent, Pleasanton Heights
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 10:15 am

Yes, there is no need for fear-mongering. All scientific evidence and facts point to a very low risk for transmission when you are outdoors and keep appropriate distance to others.


Jill Miller
Registered user
Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Feb 18, 2021 at 11:46 am
Jill Miller, Vintage Hills Elementary School
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 11:46 am

I don't know how we can expect teachers to return to the classroom when so many are unwilling to mask up to slow the spread themselves.


Guillermo M.
Registered user
Downtown
on Feb 18, 2021 at 1:13 pm
Guillermo M., Downtown
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 1:13 pm

Sanity prevails over fear mongering, mask shaming and an attempt to politicize a flu virus. The hypocrisy of the “scientists” logic that masks are required for a person walking down the street yet someone 2 feet away who is sitting down & eating is not required is beyond comprehension.


John
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 18, 2021 at 1:31 pm
John, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 1:31 pm

Jill Miller. What kind of logic is that. How does not wearing a mask outside the classroom have anything to with teaching in the classroom. This is the kind of distorted illogical thinking that has created this mask controversy. The pediatrics asssociation and the cdc say go back to school. If the mantra is "follow the science" then follow the science and get back to school and stop this illogical thinking.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 18, 2021 at 9:33 pm
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 9:33 pm

This bears repeating from The Federalist:

“Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention,” a group of scientists concluded after a randomized trial, publishing their findings in BMJ Open in March 2015, long before the our current politicized plight. “These effects may be associated with cloth masks” (the types of masks we’re all wearing now).“

The entire article is here: Web Link

Understand that every time you exhale your body is releasing unhealthy toxins and bacteria. By wearing a mask all those toxins become trapped in the cloth and then you inhale it back in subjecting yourself to infections such as bacterial pneumonia and hypoxia. Now, with the requirement to wear two masks and maybe three you really are setting your body up for failure. Don’t live in fear. Seek the truth, look, listen, and read. Gavin isn’t a Doctor and really is using this for control and power. It’s time to wake up kids.


James Michael
Registered user
Val Vista
on Feb 18, 2021 at 11:39 pm
James Michael, Val Vista
Registered user
on Feb 18, 2021 at 11:39 pm

I agree with Jake, I can't hit a button yes or no because The Weekly doesn't want that anymore. And there are even some people that suggest that we shouldn't be able to comment at all. And yes, I saw that you deleted what I said on another post because someone might have complained. Keep that up and you won't have anybody here anymore!


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 19, 2021 at 10:17 am
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 19, 2021 at 10:17 am

Building on what James Michael wrote, because he addresses a very serious and important freedom that is starting to dissolve, many other digital publications nationwide are stopping any comments on their articles. I too James, have been censored in the passed for speaking the truth here while some of the haters we know can say anything they want. This has been a big move by the Socialists to dampen or outright shut down free speech. Unless you obey, and not deter from the Socialists viewpoint, you are seen as a threat. This mask discussion is one of those topics that places us in their sights.

Look around the country since Biden took over. What do we see? Federal troops in the tens of thousands at the Capital. Barbed wire around the city. And this by the very Socialists who scream about guns and walls. They are attempting to control Conservatives through labels. Control your speech is simply a means to control your thoughts. The removal of the ‘yes’ button is an indication to control, and will probably lead to the removal of comments.

Pleasanton is a microcosm of the rest of the country. What happens there will eventually happen here. The subtleties of life take over rather quickly and you are left asking, ‘what happened’? Return to this ‘mask’ issue and ask yourself: why is there such a strong compliance with masks? Why haven’t these commenters read or heard what I have? It’s simply that they only trust the source that they have followed over their life: CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of MSN strongholds delivering the news on approval of their political elites. You can bring them to the sources, but unless Don Lemon or Chris Cuomo states it on their station, they refuse to listen.

You know when you are over the target when they remove you, censor you, label you, or as is happening, riot against you. Washington DC is your wake up call.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 20, 2021 at 7:31 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 20, 2021 at 7:31 pm

Pleasanton Parent, correct. Outdoors, appropriate distance, and wear a mask. Two's probably better, now that there are other more transmissible strains.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 20, 2021 at 7:55 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 20, 2021 at 7:55 pm

Jake Walters, a gentle reminder. Those Federal Troops were dispatched to D C because the former president's followers and supporters read his words as a battle cry to destruct the capital and wreak mayhem. They remain there because safety was jeopardized on his watch, and their threat remains.
Regarding CNN, MSNBC and MSN, those are definitely not our choices for reliable sources of information. Aware of them, sure we are, but certainly not relied upon and seldom seen.
We comply with mask regulations because we either are or have begat scientists, who work with scientific evidence on a daily basis and advise us this is the proper approach.
We don't pretend to know what you are reading or listening to, but we can surmise it isn't fact-based scientific evidence. There is a science of politics, perhaps. That's why there are political science offerings in institutions of higher education. But except for the name, poli-sci and true science are two very different breeds of cat. The former with a healthy measure of science fiction and the latter with a healthier measure of fact.
We've chosen to go with facts.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 20, 2021 at 9:25 pm
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 20, 2021 at 9:25 pm

So the cover story has always been that Trump supporters will reap destruction and therefore walls, wire, and guns must be amassed in our nations capital. But funny how there wasn't violence before by this group. Funny that there was no evidence that these people were a threat. But in cities across this land riots broke out by other groups and many Governors didn’t want the help of the National Guard. I’m so confused on these matters.

Secondly, who are these scientists or doctors that you listen to on a daily basis? How has Florida and South Dakota been able to figured it out? Why are we the last in the nation for indoor dining? If this is so bad, why aren’t health care workers and the homeless not dying in great numbers? What proof do we have that masks work? Particularly outdoors? Why are only selected doctors allowed to be heard over social media or MSM? Why is Fauci allowed to be a guiding light when he has flipped flopped so much to the point that he really doesn’t appear to have a grasp on this?

Lots of questions, but little answers. I prefer to be spoken to and treated as an adult, and not told to fall in line, behave, and make sounds like a heard of sheep.

Just a gentle reminder of reality.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 20, 2021 at 10:57 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 20, 2021 at 10:57 pm

Maybe this will help alleviate some of your confusion, Jake. PBS, aka KQED, is a pretty good go-to source to answer your questions. A series of short videos has been playing regularly since the virus reared its unpleasant head. It addressed problems early on and has evolved and grown just like the pandemic has. We watch these because they are unemotional, not political, just present the facts with back-up. Here's a link to one of the most recent one. It lasts about 8 minutes, so your attention span shouldn't be stressed. It starts with a very short ad for another PBS program but then moves quickly into the real deal. The series is called "It's OK to be Smart". Try to have enough patience to listen for 8 minutes, because it actually does answer most of your questions. It's a combination of doctors and scientists we listen to. They come from university faculties worldwide, just like the Pfizer vaccine did. These are the people who teach and do research. It's their job, and they have studied such things far longer than any of us. Chances are pretty high they're pretty smart.
Web Link
Maybe you didn't realize Dr. Fauci wasn't allowed to say what was really going on until recently. And if you watch the video to the end, you'll learn why he has modified his recommendations over time.
You probably won't change your mind, but as you know, you can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. The best we can hope for is that you'll spend a little less than 10 minutes and gain a little bit of knowledge and be not quite so confused.


James Michael
Registered user
Val Vista
on Feb 20, 2021 at 11:26 pm
James Michael, Val Vista
Registered user
on Feb 20, 2021 at 11:26 pm

keeknlinda...PBS really? I wish the weekly would bring back the buttons so I didn't have to waste time posting. PBS has never been a "go to source" for intelligent people.


Kathleen Ruegsegger
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:34 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:34 am

Jake, you are stating your truth, I assume based on what you read or listen to and your own experiences. I am listening to mine, including PBS NewsHour.

Other countries have been wearing masks for years. No one is getting ill. So I will wear my mask and get vaccinated. And hopefully, we will hit immunity.


BobB
Registered user
Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 21, 2021 at 3:42 pm
BobB, Another Pleasanton neighborhood
Registered user
on Feb 21, 2021 at 3:42 pm

Good lord, people are politicizing masks.

Jake Waters, ask any reputable doctor if you don't believe the CDC, the American Medical Association, or other health authorities. My family has both Kaiser and Sutter, and our doctors recommend wearing masks.

American Medical Association: Web Link

“people can wear them whether they're exercising or in labor or doing surgery for 14 hours—there really isn't an excuse to not wear one for almost everyone.”

CDC: Web Link

Kathleen Ruegsegger, "hopefully, we will hit immunity" -- I agree and we are in a race for immunity against the wild virus and the spread of new variants. I will be wearing a mask and getting vaccinated as soon as I can.


Pleasanton Parent
Registered user
Pleasanton Meadows
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:23 pm
Pleasanton Parent, Pleasanton Meadows
Registered user
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:23 pm

So with new variants emerging every season, a similarity to the flu, when wil you stop wearing a mask?

I’m fine with the requirement now, but this isn’t going away people, and I doubt wearing a mask in perpetuity is going to be acceptable.

So when, what’s the “end state “ we must achieve?


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:49 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 21, 2021 at 11:49 pm

High heels hurt feet. But they're fashionable, so many women wear them. They kick 'em off when day is done. Men often hate wearing neckties, but society demands them on certain occasions in certain places. Those of us whose eyes are less young (an eye doctor told me that many years ago, presumably so as not to hurt my aging feelings) wear glasses even though we'd rather not. Yoga or sweat pants would be preferred by many to dress trousers or pencil skirts, but business attire is sometimes required. And who would imagine wearing your pajamas to a red carpet affair?
Point is wearing a mask is smart and intelligent people will do it for as long as necessary. There may not be an "end state", much as we'd all like there to be. The vaccine may help, but mutations of the virus may require us to step back a notch. We've laid in a supply of varied colors, some fancy, some plain. Enough to last a year or two. Whatever it takes. We might as well get used to it.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 23, 2021 at 7:15 pm
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 23, 2021 at 7:15 pm

I have said this before, if you feel safer wearing a mask, then wear a mask. If you believe masks work than you shouldn’t be afraid of us that don’t wear masks. Simple as that. You wear a mask for you, not me. I will wear one indoors where it is required, but I won’t wear one outdoors. Masks don’t work in the long run. PBS is not a source, but enjoy as you will.

For the record, the CDC has flip flopped as bad as Fauci, whom I believe has some mental issues he is dealing with.


BobB
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 23, 2021 at 9:54 pm
BobB, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 23, 2021 at 9:54 pm

Jake Waters,

As many of us have said before, masks are effective but they do not give 100% protection. That is why we all need to wear them. You're not just protecting yourself, you are protecting others. It is the same way with vaccines.


Rich Buckley
Registered user
Livermore
on Feb 24, 2021 at 3:48 pm
Rich Buckley, Livermore
Registered user
on Feb 24, 2021 at 3:48 pm

Removed because it was off topic


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
on Feb 26, 2021 at 3:51 pm
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
on Feb 26, 2021 at 3:51 pm

On Thursday, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and chief medical adviser to President Biden, said that "even though it isn't backed by data," if two vaccinated people want to get together, they can, "though the risk is not zero."

By way an analogy, there is a non-zero risk that if someone starts exercising after years of being idle, he might have a heart attack and die. A non-zero risk of a bad outcome has never been a reason to remain locked up inside your house like a vegetable on life support.

In addition, the efficacy of lockdowns of the healthy is not "backed by data." Quite the opposite.

And yet here we are, in week 46 of the "Two Weeks to Flatten the Curve".

This is not science. This is mental illness. This is a group of control freaks and attention seekers who want control and demand attention, on one hand, and on the other hand, a lot of neurotic people who live as virtual shut-ins by personal choice and want to see their bizarre lifestyle choices both mainstreamed and made mandatory.

This is the truth.

Dan


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 26, 2021 at 8:51 pm
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 26, 2021 at 8:51 pm

Dan said:

“This is not science. This is mental illness. This is a group of control freaks and attention seekers who want control and demand attention, on one hand, and on the other hand, a lot of neurotic people who live as virtual shut-ins by personal choice and want to see their bizarre lifestyle choices both mainstreamed and made mandatory.”

Dan, you wrote the problem in a nutshell.

For the rest of you make sure you wear 3 masks and a skull cap with horns. If you think I’m trying to be humorous, you’re sadly mistaken. I think this has gone on long enough.


Kathleen Ruegsegger
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 26, 2021 at 9:57 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 26, 2021 at 9:57 pm

Dan and Jake, it’s a deadly virus; there is no “gone on long enough”; it’s still with us; not enough people have been vaccinated. By all means go out; wear a mask as requested. It is easy to do.


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
on Feb 27, 2021 at 3:32 pm
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
on Feb 27, 2021 at 3:32 pm

Kathleen,

Explain Florida.

I'll wait...patiently...as always.


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
on Feb 27, 2021 at 3:37 pm
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
on Feb 27, 2021 at 3:37 pm

Kathleen,

Surely you remember "two weeks to flatten the curve", right?

And you are STILL believing the current "science"?!

My uncle died from COVID...of course he was 92 and had kidney failure and was dying on the hospital bed from it, but after they found COVID (he had no symptoms whatsoever) guess what he died from?

My Aunt is pi-sed that they labeled it COVID by the way. She knew and so did the hospital.

Bull.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:31 am
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:31 am

Kathleen, I support your right to be heard and will always defend the ability to debate respectively, however, your response is the reason this nightmare goes on and on. The Democrats love to believe that they are our Shepard’s, but we are not sheep. This is a deadly illness for the elderly and those with compromised systems. We have have been debating this for a year, and we will disagree for this next year of masks and shutdowns. It’s been political since the start, and it accomplished exactly what the Democrats wanted. We were used and played for control and power. Remember, watching the behavior during this last year by Democrat Governors and Congressman/women tells you everything.

Another good source is Alex Berenson’s 3 part book series entitled: Unreported Truths about COVID-19 and Lockdowns: Part 1, 2, and 3. It includes masks, which have been debunked by a number of other medical professionals. I’ve read other books by this author.

Look at who is being censored. Look at MSM outlets not reporting on what other’s in the medical community are admitting. Democrats love to use slogans, phrases, and word labels to manipulate and control- such as “We are all in this together,” “Do it for your loved one or neighbor,” and “Save a life, wear a mask.” If they control your words, they control your speech.

There are few things I can do in this world except for: how I react to events, whom I vote for, and peaceful demonstrations I participate in. So much is out of my control.

Lastly, don’t forget to sign the recall on Gavin Newsom- that is another thing we can do.

Have a great day.


Kathleen Ruegsegger
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 28, 2021 at 9:09 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 9:09 am

Dan, First, I’m sorry about your uncle. However, Florida isn’t a shining light: Web Link I already stated that science tells us what it knows *when* it knows. I don’t read Fauci anymore, not because he’s wrong, but because he’s overly covered by the news media. Otherwise, I wear a mask; I’m getting vaccinated.

Jake, I don’t particularly care what Democrats or Republicans have to say on this topic. If you look past all you are worried about and just wear a mask where it is needed and get vaccinated when you can, I think you and everyone else will be safe.


BobB
Registered user
Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Feb 28, 2021 at 1:22 pm
BobB, Vintage Hills Elementary School
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 1:22 pm

"I don’t particularly care what Democrats or Republicans have to say on this topic. If you look past all you are worried about and just wear a mask where it is needed and get vaccinated when you can, I think you and everyone else will be safe. "

Yes. Exactly. Thanks for putting it succinctly.


BobB
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 28, 2021 at 2:02 pm
BobB, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 2:02 pm

Jake Waters,

Alex Berenson is anti-vaccine zealot who has no background whatsoever in any kind of science or medicine. He is a fiction writer with a history degree.

Here is an article in the National Review that explains:

"It’s difficult to overstate how immoral it is to spread disinformation about a safe, highly effective vaccine during a deadly pandemic. It’s impossible to overstate how embarrassing it is that Berenson has done so as clumsily as he has."

Web Link


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
on Feb 28, 2021 at 3:26 pm
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 3:26 pm

"who has no background whatsoever in any kind of science or medicine."

Fauci et al actually do have a background in "science" and they have been WRONG time after time.

They've been wrong about masks.

They've been wrong about distancing.

They've had to expand the cause of death to make this virus seem as if it is lethal.

I gave you the example of my Uncle, and you STILL follow along like sheep.


Kathleen Ruegsegger
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 28, 2021 at 3:48 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 3:48 pm

How were they wrong about masks and distancing? If it’s because they said we were fine, then first responders needed them, then we needed them—time and science bore those out.

Do you know, for a fact, whether Covid took your uncle sooner than kidney failure would have taken him? Do you know, for a fact, what his death was marked as—maybe as Covid with complications of kidney failure? The Economist has covered comorbidities. Web Link

I believe more than 500,000 people have died from Covid, many/most who had other health complications adding to it.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 28, 2021 at 5:19 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 5:19 pm

DKHSK it matters not one whit what anyone responding to you says. You have decided to believe what you believe, regardless of fact. Same as others trying to bait an argument. We'll express sympathy for your family loss because it is the polite and correct thing to do, recognize the pain of others, do what we can to prevent it from befalling others. If that makes us sheep, so be it. We know not to expect compassion from you, so we won't. We'll wear masks, keep our distance, wash our hands, get vaccinated because it is the grown-up, intelligent, sensible, and responsible thing to do. We belong to this society, so we'll do are part at being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You do as you darn well please. Nothing any of us says will make a difference anyhow.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
on Feb 28, 2021 at 7:32 pm
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 7:32 pm

People don’t listen to Fauci not because he is over reported, but because he changes his mind day in and day out. I think he may have some issues. Secondly, what is your science? What science? Who is speaking the science. It really has become an overused and empty phrase.

BobB, I think you have a tired and worn out response. If anybody disagrees with your position you ramble on about anti-vaccines. It isn’t cute or humorous anymore.

Lastly, with Biden allowing tens of thousands of illegals to walk in without any concern of the virus, what is the point of masks and shutdowns with most of them coming to California.

We will continue with masks and shutdowns for the rest of the year because you people continue to reward these Democrats by supporting their nonsense. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Our only hope is to recall Newsom and get some leadership in countries of this ship. The politics, not the virus is the deadly disease.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:06 pm
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:06 pm

C'mon, Jake. The virus isn't a political player unless guys like you make it one. Wear the mask, wash your hands, stay the distance, get the shots, and let us all get on with our lives, modified though they may be.


BobB
Registered user
Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:39 pm
BobB, Another Pleasanton neighborhood
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2021 at 8:39 pm

Jake Waters,

You were the one who said "Another good source is Alex Berenson..."

And I pointed out that not only does Alex Berenson have no background at all in medicine or science, he is going around telling people not to get vaccinated, based on complete nonsense. It isn't cute or humorous at all. The sad part is that some people actually believe this nonsense.

You need to read that article in the National Review that I posted.

Web Link

"It’s difficult to overstate how immoral it is to spread disinformation about a safe, highly effective vaccine during a deadly pandemic. It’s impossible to overstate how embarrassing it is that Berenson has done so as clumsily as he has."


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
18 hours ago
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
18 hours ago

Kathleen,

Once again, WHICH science is correct regarding masks and social distancing?

Like "global warming" morphing into "climate change", the "science" of masks and social distancing is NOT settled and never has been.

Its like you don't even remember "2 weeks to flatten the curve" and all that bull.

They have no idea and are swinging away.

AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT EXPLAINED FLORIDA!!!!!


DKHSK
Registered user
Bridle Creek
18 hours ago
DKHSK, Bridle Creek
Registered user
18 hours ago

"We'll wear masks, keep our distance, wash our hands, get vaccinated because it is the grown-up, intelligent, sensible, and responsible thing to do."

Good, then go ahead and do it and let those of us who don't buy the current political and scientific bull regarding this virus to live our lives.

I've always stated that people like you SHOULD stay indoors and away from everyone else.
Our society would be much better off.

Sincerely.


Jake Waters
Registered user
Birdland
18 hours ago
Jake Waters, Birdland
Registered user
18 hours ago

Kathleen and BobB, you may not want to read this article. I have posted on the research and data of Dr. Ted Noel 5 months ago. It’s another good article about your mask dilemma.


Web Link

Don’t forget to sign the recall people.


keeknlinda
Registered user
Vintage Hills
17 hours ago
keeknlinda, Vintage Hills
Registered user
17 hours ago

Jake, we love it when these things raise their silly heads. A favorite pastime is fact-checking sources of information before accepting it (or not). What fun for a Monday Morning!

Web Link

So much for credibility, Jake!


been there
Registered user
Del Prado
16 hours ago
been there, Del Prado
Registered user
16 hours ago

Since we no longer have the opportunity to support a comment, I will simply say that Jake and Dan have made thoughtful intelligent comments based on the research they have done independently. I applaud them and wish they would run for local office so I could vote for them.
And fortunately at least ONE "lone speaker" had the courage to voice her opposition to the ludicrous mask mandate and fine policy that the City Council defeated. (But probably for the wrong reasons.)
Get active and start thinking for yourself. www.Standforhealthfreedom.com is a good place to start doing some research and being a responsible citizen. Mandates of ANY kind are unconstitutional.
If you feel safer wearing a mask and if you believe it truly protects you, then you should not feel threatened if I don't wear one. It's simple logic.
Also, if you want to be injected with synthetic mRna and toxins, then run out and get jabbed. But social shaming by the self-righteous will not change the reality that the government cannot force anyone to be injected. I did not say "vaccinated" as the so-called COVID 19 vaccine is NOT a vaccine at all! Do some research on the patents to be fully informed on what you are taking into your body that cannot be reversed. These ridiculous lockdowns, mask policies and injections are purely VOLUNTARY because we live in a free country...at least for a few more days!.


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