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A Stanford professor who said homosexuals lack political power and a gay man who said conversion therapy made him suicidal took the stand at a same-sex marriage trial in San Francisco Wednesday.
Stanford political science professor Gary Segura and Denver resident Ryan Kendall testified on behalf of two same-sex couples on the seventh day of the trial before U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker.
The couples claim in a civil rights lawsuit that California’s ban on same-sex marriage, enacted by voters as Proposition 8 in 2008, violates their federal constitutional rights to due process and equal protection.
The case, which will be decided by Walker without a jury, is the nation’s first federal trial on a U.S. constitutional challenge to
restrictions on gay marriage.
Segura, an expert on the political power or lack of power of minority groups, told Walker that in the United States, “Gays and lesbians do not possess a meaningful degree of political power.
Kendall, 26, testified that sexual orientation conversion therapy his parents forced him to undergo as a teenager made him “a 16-year-old kid who had lost everything” and caused him to feel suicidal, but didn’t change his homosexuality.
Both witnesses’ testimony bears on the plaintiffs’ claim that gay rights deserve the highest level of legal protection because homosexuals lack political power and have suffered discrimination on the basis of a characteristic — their sexual orientation – that most of them cannot change.
The sponsors of Proposition 8 and their campaign committee, ProtectMarriage.com, who are defending the initiative at the trial, contend that gays and lesbians are now politically powerful and that “many people freely choose their sexual orientation.”
Later in the trial, the Proposition 8 sponsors will present their own witness, assistant government professor Kenneth Miller of Claremont McKenna College, to assert the view that gays and lesbians have political power.
Today’s court session in Walker’s Federal Building courtroom will begin with continued cross-examination of Segura.
The federal trial on same-sex marriage moved into its second week in San Francisco Tuesday with testimony from the mayor of San Diego on why he supports gay and lesbian marriage.
Mayor Jerry Sanders, a Republican, testified that he initially opposed same-sex marriage but changed his views after learning that one of his daughters is a lesbian who wanted to marry her partner.
“I believe the government should allow everyone to get married in exactly the same way,” Sanders said.
The trial before U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker is the first federal trial in the nation on a challenge under the U.S. Constitution to a ban on same-sex marriage.
A lesbian couple from Berkeley and a gay couple from Burbank claim in a civil rights lawsuit that California’s ban, enacted by voters in 2008 as Proposition 8, violates their rights to due process and equal treatment.
Walker will decide the case without a jury.
Sanders was questioned by San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera. The city of San Francisco was allowed to join the case on the side of the same-sex couples to support their claims that denial of marriage is costly to local governments.
Sanders testified that he believes Proposition 8 and similar laws have discriminatory intent.
He said the laws have the effect of saying, “We don’t think that you folks have the same type of relationship or love each other as much, so we’re not going to allow you to be married.”
During cross-examination, Brian Raum, a lawyer for Proposition 8 sponsors, showed a 2008 campaign television advertisement that alleged that same-sex marriage advocates stole campaign signs, defaced a church and assaulted Proposition 8 donors.
Sanders said he doesn’t condone violence, and that he doesn’t have firsthand information about the allegations in the video.
Gays do have power. They can vote,plus they have the Courts, just like any other group or citizens. Gay’s have special laws to protect them, now !
Problem is they will not accept a vote of the people. The Gays and “Left” are such that they will not accept society’s rules. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
The only group that lacks political power relative to their population and accomplishments are white hetero men
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Those are two of the funniest things I’ve ever read.
Fortunately, this is a land of laws, not of “society’s rules.”
Right, white hetero males are really suffering from a lack of political power. That’s rich. Oh, and really, really funny.
Ya, and because you say so, it must not be true. Most so-called white representatives for white men are nothing but traitors or the white equivalent of uncle toms. But you’re obviously a fool who doesn’t know the layers of the onion
Oh Gunslinger, I feel so sorry that you are so ignorant. You poor, white male. When was the last time you read a history book? When was the last time you realized that women and minorities did not have the right to vote until after you did? When was the last time you looked at the color of the skin of our Senators, Representatives, and Supreme Court Justices? I would love for you to walk in the shoes of someone other than your poor, uniformed, probably never lived in a non-white town (Danville? please) self. You need to get out of your racist box.
I love that the Proposition 8 supporters think that people freely choose their sexual orientation. I do not remember the moment when I was considering whether I should be straight or gay.
I’m still waiting for an argument from Proposition 8 supporters that’s not based in religion, personal prejudice or logical fallacy. I understand that some people are not comfortable with gay marriage, but honestly, people, tell me how it’s going to ruin “traditional marriage” any more than divorce or infidelity among heterosexual couples has.
Seriously, what about our president, the man who occupies the most powerful position in world politics? The truth is, the faces on the political facade are irrelevent. To address your other comments, I assure you my IQ is far in excess of yours and my particular adeptitude is with history. Test me anytime chump. Let me give you a broad taste of what my basic argument against you would be. All men of all races were misogynist, racist, enslaving bloodlusters. The difference is, the white mans civilization was the first to end it. While black Africa, the middle east and everywhere else outside of Europe and America went on beating their women and enslaving eachother as humans had done since the beginning of time, the white man set the precedent in ending it. That’s called context chump, something you white man haters know nothing about
Take about some people on here needing a piece of humble pie and a lesson humility.
Anyway, “societies rules” are never set in stone. We all know that. “Oh Dear”- it’ll take some time before supporters of Prop 8 give up, if that will even happen. I heard today on the radio how people think if gay marriage is legalized more rapes will happen. Why is it too that people fail to recognize that reported sexual abuse against a minor majority of the time are committed by a homosexual male? The whole destruction of marriage comes from that own community; nobody else forced that community- the heterosexual community- to do anything. Gay people didn’t knock on your door or clean your pool and sleep with your spouse. Gay people didn’t knock on your door and beat your spouse. The whole divorce rate is due to people’s own behavior. If a gay lifestyle was so destructive as people think, wouldn’t there be movies, books, articles etc produced?
This whole thing is over power and people trying to tell other’s how to live. It’s amazing how people are that blind to not realize this.
I wish someone would keep a running tab on how much time and money is being wasted on what should have been a “no brainer.” Prop 8 never should have even been on the ballot. Religions can define marriage however they like, and the state can as well……if only there were some legal precedent separating the two……
Civil unions for everyone. If the happy couple wants to have an additional religious ceremony then it’s their right to do so.
Gays do not lack political power. To say gays lack political power, in light of what is going in the CA supreme court is beyond ingnorance…Nor is it good or right to allow them to push redefining marriage to include them on society…Of course and intellectual like the Professor knows what is best for society even though he probably has no personal experience with the issue, and his expertise is political not social…This is the nonsense that one promotes when intellectuals venture outside of their narrow field of expertise and push for what they feel is best for others based upon what? Simply their notions and political agenda…
I agree with Easy solution! This would also seperate church and state.
“Gays have special laws to protect them, now!”
Actually, gays have a specific amendment to the state constitution, specifically designed to deny them and only them a right enjoyed by 90% of the rest of the population.
We have “majority rule” in this country, but the beauty of our constitution and its delineation of rights is that it is designed to protect the rights of the minority. Proposition 8 is an abomination to the constitution, as it specifically denies rights to a subset of the population. Nothing could be more backward-looking.
With the legalization of gay marriage, nobody is forcing any church to perform or recognize same-sex marriages. This is purely a civil matter. It does not denigrate the institution of marriage any more than does adultery, divorce, spousal abuse, abandonment, pre-marital sex, etc etc etc…
Not denying anyone anything – just saying a marriage is a man and women. Thats all -live with it.
Prop 8 should live or die based on rule of law.
The argument that gays lack political power and therefore should be able to overturn any unfavorable law based on that lack of power is nonsensical. Bank robbers also lack political power – therefore they should have those nasty anti-bank robbing laws that unfairly target them overturned.
Let’s have the courts rule based on the constitution.
Never mind gunslinger, he had to leave. Realized his gun rack was blocking his confederate flag, plus had to add some shiny mud flaps to his truck.
“With the legalization of gay marriage, nobody is forcing any church to perform or recognize same-sex marriages. This is purely a civil matter. It does not denigrate the institution of marriage any more than does adultery, divorce, spousal abuse, abandonment, pre-marital sex, etc etc etc…”
@John
That’s not true. In the UK, ALL Christian orphanages shut down because they had to by law, let gays adopt children. This happened in New York with all the Catholic orphanages. In Canada, Catholic bishops were arrested for preaching that homosexuality is wrong, as it says in the Bible.
Legalization of homosexual marriage takes away the rights of anyone who wishes to refuse services to gay couples (ie adopting, inn-services). I don’t care what people of any orientation practice or believe, but I want the right to refuse them service as legal married couples.
@Sam:
I haven’t done the background research on the nature of the laws of the UK and Canada. I will say I’ve heard nothing of the kind of things you mention about them.
However, we’re talking about the US. Anti-discrimination laws already on the books regarding sexual orientation has not affected any orphanages or churches in this country. That’s because of the separation of church and state written in our Constitution. The boy scouts have had trouble on this point, but that’s because the accept state and Federal money. Again, no church will be forced to accept gay marriages. I imagine only those institutions that accept state money may have trouble with this. If you don’t like the state’s requirements, then, do not accept state money.
There is no law written that permits gay marriage. The case in question is a law written to specifically deny gays the opportunity to be married. Before Prop 8, a court ruled that gays DO have that right. Such a ruling did not specifically write new rules about when and where the marriages take place, or when and where this right would be taught or prohibited. Heck, even Prop 8 doesn’t prohibit gay marriage be taught in schools, not specifically, anyway…
@John
It is simple to find out the laws of another country, just google it and also google what happened to the orphanages in New York. It was also on the news. Now I agree with your point that no law is forcing churches to marry gays, but in other countries (ie the ones you should google) like Canada, priests were arrested for (rightfully) discriminating as such. That did not happen in the US, granted, but I’m afraid it could in years to come. I do not want my pastor to be arrested for preaching what I and the rest of my church believes in. We do not accept government money, but again, in Canada, there is an anti-discrimination law which says that you cannot even SPEAK discriminatory words.
Also, ruling that gays can marry has consequences outside of that specific law. It gives homosexuals all the rights a married couple does, which, like I have been saying, means that no adoption agency, Christian or not, can refuse an adoption to a homosexual married couple. By giving “rights” we are taking away current rights to refuse service to whom we choose.