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Courage Campaign, a statewide group that supports same-sex marriage rights, is due to announce today if it will continue to support putting a same-sex marriage measure on the ballot next year or if it will join another group that wants to delay the measure to 2012.

The online activist group has 700,000 members, mostly Californians, who voted by an 83 percent majority in May to support a ballot measure in 2010.

Courage Campaign founder Rick Jacobs said the group will announce today whether it has raised an initial $100,000 from members, to be matched by another $100,000 from partner organizations, for research on a possible 2010 initiative.

Yesterday, the state’s largest gay civil rights group–San Francisco-based Equality California–announced that it will support putting a same-sex marriage measure on the ballot in 2012.

Marc Solomon, Equality California’s marriage director, said that “2012 simply appears by the numbers to be a better year” because younger people tend to vote in presidential elections compared to gubernatorial elections.

Solomon said younger people support same-sex marriage in much higher numbers than older voters, and that waiting will also allow a larger number of young people to reach voting age.

Equality California estimates that support for gay marriage would be about 4 percent higher in 2012 than it would be in 2010, which Solomon said “is not a huge difference, but in a situation where the numbers are so close, it’s a meaningful difference.”

Solomon said Equality California’s decision was based on “talking to people over the past few months and experience working for marriage equality over the years.”

Equality California has vowed to try to overturn Proposition 8, an initiative approved by state voters last November that banned same-sex marriage, but supporters had been split on whether to pursue a new initiative in 2010 or 2012.

Equality California executive director Geoff Kors said that although it advocates waiting until 2012 to put a measure on the ballot, the group would support a 2010 initiative push by another group.

“If people can raise the money and get the signatures, we’ll support it in 2010, but this is our view,” he said.

Equality California will continue soliciting feedback on the issue and will hold a virtual online town hall from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. today. To join the town hall, visit www.livestream.com/equalitycalifornia.

Proposition 8, approved by 52 percent of voters on Nov. 4, 2008, changed the California Constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to a union between a man and a woman.

Dan McMenamin/Julia Cheever, Bay City News

Dan McMenamin/Julia Cheever, Bay City News

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23 Comments

  1. Just like Uncle Gavin said, “It’s gonna happen, whether you like it or not…”

    Same sex divorce attorneys? Hmmmmmm? Might have to look at the bar exam one more time.

  2. well if it does pass it will be good to know that their AIDS outbreak will be covered with free healthcare like Canada where they go untreated.

  4. zip up: AIDS is treated the same way in Canada as is gonorrhea and Sisyphus for heterosexuals.

    Grow up. I have neighbors across the street that are Lesbians and another one street over, and they proved to much better neighbors than you would likely be.

  5. Zip Up I suggest doing some research. People that are HIV negative can already apply to government funded programs that help with medications, doctors etc. Even with our unstable government, programs still exist.

    The words you use just reinforce why people are against same sex marriages. You words seem to have hidden meaning behind them of HIV being a gay disease. One last bit of information for you as well: People don’t get infected with AIDS, you are infected with HIV.

  6. Steve, why would you make such a nasty comment like that? You are insinuating that Mike’s neighbors would molest a child they babysat. Why can you make a statement about one group of people but not about another (heterosexuals)? Women are less likely to commit these kinds of acts and the people that do commit them are predominately from heterosexual males.

    This thread is going to start getting nasty and hopefully the PW will put a stop to it. Adult conversations are needed on this topic, but not the “if you’re going to know a gay person, protect your kids” mentality.

  7. So, Steve, are you saying that you cannot be trusted to babysit preteen girls since you are hetero and are therefore likely to molest them? If not, why would I assume a lesbian is more likely to molest than you are?

  9. “Posted by SteveP, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, 1 hour ago
    SteveP is a member (registered user) of Pleasanton Weekly

    Congrats on your lesbo neighbors, mike. Maybe you can have them babysit your preteen daughter at their house sometime since you’re such an open minded bleeding heart liberal.”

    Steve,

    Your words cut like a knife and your thinking is barbaric. I hope to GOD that you are not raising kids to think like this. This is the type of thinking that assures that conservatives will perhaps never see the majority or the White House again. The general public is ashamed of people that think and express their opinion the way you do.

  10. “Congrats on your lesbo neighbors, mike. Maybe you can have them babysit your preteen daughter at their house some”

    “open minded bleeding heart liberal”

    You are so very pathetic Mr. Steve P. An Absolutely Pathetic man!

  11. Listen up velvet maffia fans,

    SteveP –

    Thank you for speaking the truth. Here goes another ridiculous debate on this ridiculous issue.

    Every man and woman have equal rights to marry under the law, already. Just because you twist it around doesn’t mean you get to ruin it for the rest of us.

    Obama has ruined any hopes any of you have politically to try and change the LAW. It’s a done deal. Settled law. Too bad.

  12. What is it that you people don’t understand? California is totally liberal and even we DON’T want this in our state. It isn’t normal no matter how much you dress it up or stomp your feet that you want it to be. It isn’t normal.

    Work it out with a psychiatrist and live up to your gender potential. Just cause you have failed at your own personal identity why should you get to nauseate the rest of us?

    And yes, I’m teaching that to my kids – all four – to have strong gender identities so they may enjoy their lives. I love my children that much. Oh, the horrors! Teaching them NORMAL values to grow up with healthy self esteem and real self worth validated by their own sense of self! Get a grip and work out your REAL problems and stop wasting so much energy with the politics.

    Now, we’re all looking forward to seeing the tolerance you claim you want but cannot commit to yourselves – If anyone can’t stomach your perverse views, they are haters and inherantly evil. Go ahead, oh you examples of tolerance, and let the condescending, pointless and ridiculous comments commence: Yawn…

  13. So OVER this, your post is so offensive I don’t wish to rehash it.

    What I found offensive about Steve’s post was his suggestion that a lesbian would molest a preteen girl. If you don’t agree with same sex marriage – whatever. I may disagree with you, but whatever. But to make the above suggestion demonstrates something much worse than simply selfishly clinging to a single vision of what marriage is.

  14. So Over This? Yeh RIGHT! You are an angry man!

    “It isn’t normal no matter how much you dress it up or stomp your feet that you want it to be. It isn’t normal.”

    The way we adults communicate issues here isn’t NORMAL by ANY standards.
    “Work it out with a psychiatrist and live up to your gender potential. Just cause you have failed at your own personal identity why should you get to nauseate the rest of us?”
    YOU are a Pathetic excuse to the human race! This statement make YOU a complete FAILURE!

    You accuse a type of people of “ nauseating the rest of us”? Speak for yourself here PLEASE!

    “And yes, I’m teaching that to my kids – all four – to have strong gender identities so they may enjoy their lives. I love my children that much. Oh, the horrors! Teaching them NORMAL values to grow up with healthy self esteem and real self worth validated by their own sense of self! Get a grip and work out your REAL problems and stop wasting so much energy with the politics.”

    So, if one of YOUR children turned out GAY, what would YOU do or say?
    “Now, we’re all looking forward to seeing the tolerance you claim you want but cannot commit to yourselves – If anyone can’t stomach your perverse views, they are haters and inherantly evil. Go ahead, oh you examples of tolerance, and let the condescending, pointless and ridiculous comments commence: Yawn…”

    You do a really good job of putting words into peoples mouths and judging a certain people. I imagine you think for your kids as well.

    You can’t judge Gays and more than the massive amount of Christian males who molest children, travel to sex tourism and or cheat on their wives.

  16. Mary,

    Funny what inaccurate predisposed judgements you have of others…”You are an angry man!”

    Actually, I’m the mother of my four beautiful children – none of which are gay because we did our jobs as parents and bonded with each of our children appropriately. They are healthy and happy. But somehow I should apologize for that right?

    My husband and I have raised four amazing and talented children who are healthy and happy and well-educated, we have a successful family business, and have stayed married to one another for over 20 years, and you want to say to me, “YOU are a Pathetic excuse to the human race! This statement make YOU a complete FAILURE!”

    My dear, you might want to reconsider your theory of who is pathetic and who is a failure. What my husband and I have accomplished is what was intended and what gives joy and we apologize to no one for that.

    It is old news and common knowledge that people that are gay have “issues”. Research IS clear. And as far as SteveP…He may not have said things as polite as you’d like, but it’s clear that he’s right.

    I wouldn’t let ANYONE who has devalued themselves enough to choose to be a homosexual, to be anywhere near my children who I love and protect.

    That’s called being a real parent with real values and real morals. It’s not my job to validate anyone else who has made poor choices. I realize your parents may have neglected to impart that to you, but that doesn’t make me the one with the problem. I don’t have to accept any behavior that anyone with two eyes can see is wrong and immoral. My children were taught to be friends with all, but that doesn’t mean we agree with our friends. A real friend loves you, but they also tell the truth.

    Accept a person, but don’t accept their actions if what they are doing is clearly wrong. What kind of person would do that to someone they claim to care for?

  17. Mary, thank you for bringing up the question of “what would you do if your child turned out to be gay.” I’m gay myself and have asked many friends’ parents that question. All my friends parents treat me with respect and always want to know about my relationship with my partner- the ending to my stories is no different than what their marriage speaks of. It’s all the same.

    The people that say “I’m so over this” obviously you are not over this since you have much to say. If someone is over this, words are not needed then. To “So OVER this”: I have no problems with own my gender, as I consider myself a male, have masculine traits, etc. I have no need to want to associate myself as a female. Your point is, well, pointless since you didn’t even pick the correct topic to discuss. I think you meant to throw in the words sexual identity. I’m not confused in that department either. I am comfortable with my life and will not let anyone “wrong” me- if you have a problem with it’s just that: It’s you’re problem. I have no confusion about who I am or what I want to do with my life.

    I’ve read so many times on this website when this issue comes up about teaching there children “the right way of life” etc etc etc. It’s so interesting to point out that many teachers in this district are actually gay themselves. You’d never know it though. I graduated from Amador in early 2000’s and I can recall at least three or four teachers I personally knew of- and no, they did not molest me or touch me or do anything sexual.

    Why is it that people take this issue to the path of child molestors, rape, abuse etc? One of the answers is simple- quick to blame another group before examining you’re own.

  18. So OVER This: Are you insinuating that my parents did a horrible job raising me? I am well educated, have a 4.0 at the college I’ve been attending for the past year and half, come from a family who’s father was a police officer for over 30 years, has been and still is married (38 years).

    It’s also “…old news and common knowledge that people that…” are heterosexuals have issues. Why are their so many regular marriage folks going to counseling? Why is that these people, who are heterosexuals, have created a divorce rate at about 50%? Why is it that a straight man raped and killed Polly Klaas? What about all the rapes that have taken place on college campuses, where females have to be scared to walk from their dorm room to the classroom? I’m guessing you want to blame many of these incidents’ on the gay community, even though not a single one of us has been involved in your life. Open you’re eyes and log onto sex offender registry; more than half of the offenders committed crimes against the opposite sex.

  19. You people are feeding trolls. There is no intelligent debate going on. “so OVER this” is probably 13 years old himself and feeling a little frustrated. This is probably his only emotional outlet. No need to keep feeding him.

  20. PT94566

    I’m not sure if So Over this is going to reply or not, but I am a little confused by what you had to say. It ebbs and flows from logic to wishful thinking.

    Someone posted the original topic that the gay lobby is going to try again ammend the CA Constitution in 2012. People responded and gave reasons why they did or didn’t approve.

    You may not like the reasons, but they did respond.

    Then you said to one poster, “Your point is, well, pointless since you didn’t even pick the correct topic to discuss.”

    I find it interesting that of all the things that Over it said, you picked out that she must have made a mistake in not using “sexual identity”. In fact, you went on to say, “I have no problems with own my gender, as I consider myself a male, have masculine traits, etc. I have no need to want to associate myself as a female.” It’s interesting that you have then denied the most masculine trait – that of being with a woman.

    The other poster said that she has raised her children with self worth that was validated by their own sense of self. The inherant issue is the developmental process. I’m always interested in reading current studies on this and other cultural issues. But in my readings, I haven’t yet been persuaded otherwise that a man that is gay is more than 90% likely to have not had male affirmation by their father. This doesn’t mean that they didn’t have a good relationship with their fathers – although it doesn’t mean they did either, but it means they weren’t affirmed to identify with their father – the most important thing a boy needs to do to become a man. It’s very reseached and it’s very available to those that want to know more. Data is data. You can take it or leave it and that is usally based upon self-interest and self-preservation. Who wants to admit they are wrong? Especially over something so personal.

    The general public is very misinformed in general on most of the data because the homosexual lobby plays themselves as a sympatheic cause. People rush to defend them because they indeed are lost and people with good hearts want to help. But that doesn’t mean that people are informed. Despite the overwhelming and available facts, nearly 35% of Americans believe homosexuality is genetic. There is not one single source of data that proves that opinion. And yet, I almost choke when I hear a news personality refer to “growing evidence”. There isn’t any.

    The point to people’s posts here is that while you say you are fine with your life choices and it’s just “others problems”, it really isn’t. It is , or the larger gay political activists, that have opened yourselves up to all criticism by asking, well actually, telling everyone else to accept what is not acceptable to most of us. You are putting this on others and they are shoving back and have a right to. How can you be surprised by that?

    You can’t demand liberty for something outside the norm and in the same breath demand others suppress their liberty. Particularly when you are the one desiring to turn their world upside down. They didn’t start the issue. They have the right to speak out against it.

    I don’t think you will understand my next point unless you truly want the answer to your question above:

    You said above, “…my relationship with my partner – the ending to my stories is no different than what their marriage speaks of. It’s all the same.” Then you went on to ask, “Why is it that people take this issue to the path of child molestors, rape, abuse etc?”

    We do that because of the evidence of the correlation, the higher incidence levels amongst homosexuals of other sexual deviancy, and the gut feeling inside that while you may not necessarily be hurting someone – what you are doing is wrong.

    People have a tendency to push the limits of socially acceptable behavior, it’s human nature, but when you cross it, you generally know it. It’s called the conscience. Go too far and it usually violates a law. I for one, am a firm believer that that is why the homosexual group has a dramatically higher incidence of depression and other related emotional diagnosis.

  21. Clarification,

    I do not quite comprehend your words when you speak about “the higher incidence levels amongst homosexuals of other sexual deviancy.” I’m guessing this has to do with sleeping around and gay people having as many partners as possible. The same can be said about the heterosexual community as well. If you are speaking of boys being molested by a gay person, I think you might have that backwards. Statistics do show that the incidence of molestation, rape, etc are committed by heterosexual males between the ages of 18 and mid 30’s. Instead of arguing about what one’s sexual orientation is and if he or she molested a person, shouldn’t we all be wanting to education the public about this act? If we live up to certain stereotypes about what one looks like, if they are gay or not, we should be focusing on protecting children. (Ya it’s a bit off topic but that’s how I feel about it. It’s kind of unnerving to hear people say that all gay people are pedophiles).

    “It is , or the larger gay political activists, that have opened yourselves up to all criticism by asking, well actually, telling everyone else to accept what is not acceptable to most of us. You are putting this on others and they are shoving back and have a right to. How can you be surprised by that?”: It is their problem if they want to tell people who they can or can’t marry. It’s a shame that I have to demand and ask people to “switch sides” if I want to marry (when it comes to voting on this issue). If I was allowed to marry, they would be no problem at all- end of discussion. Gay people do not agree with heterosexual marriage because they do not feel comfortable with it, it’s not true to themselves, there is no sexual desire or need for love in it. Why would we force ourselves to marry the opposite sex? However, just because we do not like or agree with regular marriages, we are not going around saying that it’s not right- I would never judge or condone someone else’s marriage, especially since I have zero involvement in it.

    I am being denied rights that I want- I have to fight and demand it and stand up for who I am and not be made to feel like I’m less than my straight neighbor. We have the issue of “you’re going to hell, you’re nasty” and all those others words shoved down my throat for years. So if it sounds like our community is shoving back, don’t be surprised. Since gay people aren’t going anywhere, why keep denying us rights?

    Lastly, who’s to say and ultimately judge that sleeping with the opposite sex is the final resting point at becoming a man? (“It’s interesting that you have then denied the most masculine trait – that of being with a woman.”)

  22. So Over this,

    “I wouldn’t let ANYONE who has devalued themselves enough to choose to be a homosexual, to be anywhere near my children who I love and protect”

    .Did you home school and were you next to your children every waking minute throughout their childhood?
    You chose their friends? They were NEVER left alone with a youth councilor or pastor or coach or teacher or adult friend or relative?

    Because the above people include gays and pedophiles for that matter. AND most child molester are FAMILY!

    That’s called being a real parent with real values and real morals”

    I imagine that your homophobic children are Christian and grown and that they are now instilling these “values and Morals” on their children? Pathetic!

  23. “I wouldn’t let ANYONE who has devalued themselves enough to CHOOSE to be a homosexual”

    I thought parent CHOOSE the childs sexual identity?

    “none of which are gay because we did our jobs as parents and bonded with each of our children appropriately. They are healthy and happy”

    Did not your children CHOOSE? How do you know they are not preditors?

  24. My sister is Gay and I don’t think there is any way to tell that she or her partner of plus 25 years are Gay just by looking at them, or talking to them. They are active Christians as well.

    She has a PHD and her partner has a JD. My sister is a Redound Physiatrist and her partner is a Judge!

    We have a 25 year old daughter that both are very close with. As a matter a fact, they are the people that we have been 100% comfortable with both as far as our daughter as well as in general.

    These woman have been a PILLAR of support in MANY ways to our daughter.

    There relationship is stronger than MANY couples we have know over the years for sure, bar none! Their knowledge of boundaries and level of respect is amazing. They have helped shape our daughters sense of identity as well as her self esteem over the years greatly.

    Our daughter is heterosexual and is finishing her master’s degree. This is in part due to the APPROPRIATE unconditional love provided and the VALUES we as parents as well as my sister and her partner have provided her over the years.

  25. So over this…

    <Now, we’re all looking forward to seeing the tolerance you claim you want but cannot commit to yourselves – If anyone can’t stomach your perverse views, they are haters and inherantly evil.>

    “Now, we’re all looking forward to seeing the tolerance you claim you want but cannot commit to yourselves – If anyone can’t stomach your perverse views, they are haters and inherently evil.”

    Can you clarify what you’re talking about and specifically who you are addressing here?

    I can also tell you that if your children or grandchildren were Gay, you would certainly NEVER be informed. Having an opposite sex partner is NOT conclusive of NOT being Bio or Gay or never having gay relations. Married men molest little boys all the time. Married people have same sex affairs all the time.

    You are NOT God, so you may want to stop playing God!

  26. I know So Over This and I can assure you that “He” is a she…tee hee hee, tee hee hee…

    She is an adult with secret feeling! What matters is not her opinions but how she shifts the focus away from herself. Her own kids are risk of being INCESTED by her. Thousands of children in families are INCESTED by their mothers and fathers. That’s really significant because So Over This is letting you know about her internal fears by describing something that he can’t control that’s outside of herself…those awful gay & lesbians. Yup, she’s afraid of her own dark sexual urges for her own children…how sick…I am so over you…molester!

  28. Let’s cut the nonsense…THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CIVIL RIGHTS…it’s about hijacking civil rights, imposing liberal left values on others and using civil rights to promote their agenda…

  29. Keep in mind spirited31, that YOUR CHILDREN ARE AT RISK OF BEING SEXUALLY ABUSE BY YOU. Incest happens in families and the perpetrator of sexual violence is often mommy, daddy or relatives! Hmmmmmmmmm…

    Yup spirited31, even you can get the help that you need.

    BUSTED! …have you sexually abused any of your children yet? it’s never too late to get the help that you need. go for it!

  30. THIS WHOLE THING IS THE SADDEST/STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. AND I’M TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD AND HOW ALL PEOPLE DO IS TAKE STABS AT EACH OTHER. THIS WAS A GREAT IDEA BUT NOW IT IS EXTREMELY DUMB HOW ALL PEOPLE DO IS CALL THE OTHER AN EXTREME (INSERT POLITICAL BELIEFS HERE). YOU LITERALLY THINK YOU CAN CHANGE OUR GOVERNMENTS ACTIONS OR THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS THROUGH THESE THREADS? GET OVER YOURSELF AND HAVE SOME CIVIL CONVERSATION.

    P.S. SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS POST YES IT IS OBNOXIOUS BUT I WANT TO SEE IF ANYONE ELSE FEELS THE SAME WAY I DO. I HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT STAND OUT FROM THE NEXT THIRTY SIX POSTS THAT WILL COME UP IN TEN SECONDS ATTACKING SOMEONE

  31. Get Over Yoursevles: When it comes to thinking “YOU CAN CHANGE OUR GOVERNMENTS ACTIONS OR THE BELIEFS”, how is this any different than the extreme actions concerning health care and the new plan that Obama is devising? If there was ever a town hall meeting on the subject of same sex marriage, it’d probably look very similar to what we see on the news- many people screaming, wanting to be heard.

    The gay community has been screamed at for quite sometime by people telling them that they are wrong. Finally, they gathering some “balls” to scream back that we are not wrong for feeling the way we do.

  33. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong in that we are free to choose our beliefs and if we believe in something that is right for us.

    What I can’t or won’t believe in is anyone, any party, or any cause forcing their beliefs on the rest of the world.

    The “moral values and normal society” does NOT exist. What is normal to one may not be normal for another and all of our beliefs are as valid as the rest.

    There are very decent people who have contributed greatly to society, who have never even concentrated on religious values or morals; they are just decent human beings.

    Live and let live. If a gay couple want a certificate that says “marriage” how does that affect anyone’s life in a true sense! It may affect principals, which only have merit to those that believe in that principal.

  34. It’s the tyranny of the majority, and that is not acceptable.
    It is an important fight, it is absolutely about civil rights, and we cannot give up!

  35. It is about sickness and ruining the moral fiber of our communities. Homosexual’s cannot breed to expand their numbers so therefore must recruit to continue existence. If the most liberal state in the union denounces it you know it must be seriously sick.

  37. I don’t know why some feel that if you are a Christian and a Republican you must be against gay rights and marriage – I for one am in favor of both – Please stop with all the sterotypes. In fact I know many others that feel the same way – the classic “silent majority”

  38. For those of you who think sexual identity is a choice, please share the exact day and time you figured out you were, say, heterosexual. I am hetero, and I have no memory of “deciding” to be such. A gay friend once told me, “Why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay”? Judging from some of the posts here it’s easy to see his point. Personally I think it’s irrelevant as to *why* a person ends up gay – just as irrelevant as why a person ends up hetero. The point is that both groups of people should be judged by their merits, not their sexual orientation.

  40. To Pat,
    How do you define “Decent”, In your world without social morality?
    Your moral relativism arguments are ridiculous, Yawn…

    What’s next, no right and wrong – Let people do whatever they please…(A.K.A. Sodom and Gomorrah).

    Without Morality – There can be no functioning Civil Society and Natural Rule of Law.
    Without Gods Natural Law you have the ever changing in the wind Rule of Man.
    The Rule of Man becomes Tyranny and ultimately, Slavery.

    Wake-up and take a stand against Moral Relativism and Moral Decay of Society.

  42. What is the point of voting on an issue and having it pass if someone or some group(s) can just petition to have it put on the ballot again? It makes it feel like voting is pointless.

  43. PToWN9456 and mike: You must have misunderstood me. I haven’t dropped a single clue as to how I feel about any of thesehot button issues, same-sex marriages, healthcare, whatever. I think it is great that Courage Campaign has set goals and are making an effort to support what they beleive in. What I’m trying to say is it is VERY annoying how all of these threads result in nothing productive and are just people yelling at each other. To change our government people maybe do need to start screaming back but it needs to be a little more civil than…

    “BUSTED! …have you sexually abused any of your children yet? it’s never too late to get the help that you need. go for it!”

    or

    “I imagine that your homophobic children are Christian and grown and that they are now instilling these “values and Morals” on their children? Pathetic!”

    really people…?

  44. Get Over Yourself,

    Do you expect gay people to sit back and not respond or react to comments such as “gay people are pedophiles” or “what are they going to want next? to marry a goat?”

    It’s obviously a touchy issue and when someone takes comments to the extreme, it’s only fair to expect that the other side is going to take their stance to the extreme as well. It’s like detonating a bomb and not expect it to blow up. People can only take so much, and after reading some of the nasty words on here, yes I am going to ‘fire’ back. To sit back and not say anything is reinforcing the fact of what the other side wants: for us to remain silent in society and not have a voice. I agree, it is very annoying that these threads do not produce productive conversation, but to sit and not say anything when people make derogatory comments is never going to happen.

    People who talk about their Christian children not having morals and being homophobic may be a bit harsh, but at the same time it speaks so much truth. These children are the ones who walk the halls at the schools here, shoving people into lockers, screaming out “queer” or “fag” (PW, don’t sensor this- it’s the truth that people should hear)- basically making life miserable for other people. It’s these religious people that strive so hard to live by God’s words but then turn around and do the opposite. These are the people that couldn’t last one day in the life of a gay person. And to have someone say to me “you couldn’t last one day in the life of a straight person” is false: I’ve had to live the secret life and it’s not healthy.

  46. To PToWN94566:

    You’ve made a number of extremely outrageous statements. Just because someone is religious doesn’t mean they are “homophobic” or cruel or bullies, or any of a number of other things that you project on them.

    If you cannot contribute to intelligent dialogue and express views in a rational way, then get off this forum. Leave the discussions to people who are going to express opinions using proper debate format, not trashing people who happen to have views that are different from yours.

  47. Everybody knows that “GET OVER YOURSELVES” is in the C L O S E T!

    BUSTED! tee hee hee, tee hee hee…

    What I know about Spirit32 is that if he is a father, then his children ARE AT RISK OF BEING INCESTED BY HIMSELF OR ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER. Incest is quite common in the US, I thought that you knew this FACT.

    If you like, I can provide you with research into the topic of family incest…yup, it quite common in the US. As a matter of fact, if you have children, they are more likely to be sexually abused by one of YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS or by CLERGY that by known gay or lesbian adults. Just the facts ma’m, nothing but the facts!

    BUSTED!

  48. It is too much to bear to see QWERTY single out PTown 94566 as not contributing appropriately to this debate, as the truly vile and irrational (or should I say, “extremely outrageous”) comments on this thread come so disproportionately from those opposed to gay marriage.
    I am a heterosexual married stay at home mom of several kids, and I am outraged at the movement against gay marriage. It has moved me to act like few other issues out there. It is inconceivable to me that a group is being allowed to be singled out and targeted the way the gay community has been targeted with Prop 8. Besides working for equal rights and protection in this arena, I am educating my own children on tolerance and the ugliness of bigotry as we have seen over this issue. This is not over, and will not be over until gay marriage is recognized in this state.

  49. Qwerty,

    As I’ve said before, if you can dish it expect to be served back. Why am I not allowed to state what is my reality, but it’s ok for others to? Meaning, why is it ok for other people to state that gay people may want to marry an animal, or that they will molest any small child, but then I’m not allowed to fire back? I do not intend on leaving this forum. Also, if you go back and read my words, you will not find the words “all Christians” or “all religious people.” I am simply stating what I observed since I was in middle school through the present. High school, especially here in this town, is full of students that are religious and speak what they have been taught. (I remember an English class at Amador where all the Mormon students gathered together, separated themselves from everyone else, and made sure to exclude other students that were not part of their faith) Then if a bisexual or gay person speaks what they have learned, it’s frowned upon.

    Outraged has pointed a huge learning lesson that everyone, from both sides of the issue, need to learn- tolerance. There is not one ounce of tolerance when people make derogatory statements aimed towards gay people, and not one ounce of tolerance when people personally attack religions. If people against same sex marriage expect the gay community to tolerant their religious views, then gay people are going to want tolerance as well when it comes to their personal relationship (emphasis on personal).

  50. Let me state another (endless too) question for Qwerty: Why do you show so much anger when I stated the truth earlier about “These children are the ones who walk the halls at the schools here, shoving people into lockers, screaming out “queer” or “fag”… basically making life miserable for other people”.

    Should teenagers be allowed to do this? And if we are to stop it, where do start? (My answer is to start at home- children mimic their parents and if they hear one saying “fruit cake” or “queer” in a derogatory manner, you can guarantee they will repeat it)

    That is my experience, what I went through, and I could very easily gather more first hand experiences from other gay or bisexual people and their high school experiences from right here in Pleasanton.

  51. Outraged! There is actually another P-Town mother that feel the same as I do! O.K. it’s not that bad, but P-Town is one of the most intolerant communities I have ever lived in!

    However, it’s not about P-Town, it’s about intolerance by many towards a group of people with a different reality and life style.

    Quite often these people do tend to be Christian and be very aggressive about the “MORAL” issues with Homosexuality etc.

    Sad, very sad indeed.

    “Posted by Outraged, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, 1 hour ago

    It is too much to bear to see QWERTY single out PTown 94566 as not contributing appropriately to this debate, as the truly vile and irrational (or should I say, “extremely outrageous”) comments on this thread come so disproportionately from those opposed to gay marriage.

    I am a heterosexual married stay at home mom of several kids, and I am outraged at the movement against gay marriage. It has moved me to act like few other issues out there. It is inconceivable to me that a group is being allowed to be singled out and targeted the way the gay community has been targeted with Prop 8. Besides working for equal rights and protection in this arena, I am educating my own children on tolerance and the ugliness of bigotry as we have seen over this issue. This is not over, and will not be over until gay marriage is recognized in this state”

  52. I sure hope if this healthcare thing passes that homosexuals have to pay extra for health insurance afterall why should we have to pay for their risky lifestyle. If they get HIV/AIDS or STD’s they should be made to pay out of pocket as should fat people and smokers or anyone else who inflects diseases or other harmful items on themselves.

  53. Sarah – there are a lot of us here! Just not so vocal, as this issue does not so obviously involve our regular daily experiences.
    That said, there are a lot of P-Town moms out there that were very active in favor of Prop 8; and you are dead-on with your assessment of the corresponding religious affiliation.
    That is why I feel like it is so important to be vocal, and not let these pro-8 activists hijack the voice of suburban SAHMs. I am glad to know that you’re here, too!

  54. Sarah – there are a lot of us here! Just not so vocal, as this issue does not so obviously involve our regular daily experiences.
    That said, there are a lot of P-Town moms out there that were very active in favor of Prop 8; and you are dead-on with your assessment of the corresponding religious affiliation.
    That is why I feel like it is so important to be vocal, and not let these pro-8 activists hijack the voice of suburban SAHMs. I am glad to know that you’re here, too!

  55. PToWN94566, you are seeing what you want to see. I haven’t expressed any anger at all. You’ve chosen to project that on me for whatever reason.

    You were merely asked to play fair. Don’t make sweeping generalizations unless you have the statistics on 10,000’s of examples to support your arguments. If you want to get into semantics, one doesn’t need to use the word “all” when referring to a group to make sweeping generalizations. For example even if you don’t use the phrase “all Christians…” you could say “Christians do X Y or Z” and it would imply the same.

    And to anyone who flames me for suggesting that someone play by the rules, that’s pretty hypocritical of you.

  56. Querty..

    < If you want to get into semantics, one doesn’t need to use the word “all” when referring to a group to make sweeping generalizations.>

    The gay community has been the receiving end of “all” for years! Not only that, BUT society has thrown the should and shouldn’t ALL over this community by way of the MORAL CODE etc.

    I am a happy hetro and I am tired of the imposition of “moral values” so strongly imposed on a group of society.

    Live and let live for GODS sake! Some of the comments in this thread show an outright homo phobic HATRED towards ALL gay people!

  57. PToWN94566, I enjoy your posts. You make your points without gratuitous nastiness. QWERTY, you must be referring to another PToWN 94566. If you want to critique offensive posts, try reading the posts of people who agree with you.

    I grew up in S.F. & it was culture shock moving here. One day my daughter said that another girl had called her “gay”. After some discussion it was determined that the girl meant it as an insult; i.e. she was trying to hurt my daughter. I let my daughter know that I was very much against the term “gay” being used as an insult and that obviously the girl was ignorant, likely with ignorant parents as well. I have no problem believing the personal recollections of PToWN94566!

  58. So PToWN94566, have you personally spoken with any of the groups that you disparage in your posts? Or any people in particular incidents that you cite? If not, then I don’t think that you can come to conclusions about what those groups may or may not have been doing.

  59. Querty, Back Off Already. P-Town94566 is really quite constructive 99.9% of the time on this forum.

    You are pushing too far and you personally don’t have to live in a world in which people openly HATE on YOU or beat you up, just for being YOU!

    Thanks!

    Hetro

  60. To “What?”

    There is nothing offensive in what I said to Ptown94566, in fact, what I asked is whether or not they had spoken in person to any of the groups that he or she spoke about or referred to in those posts. There is nothing mean, angry or hateful about that at all. In fact, there’s nothing in this message along those lines either. Does Ptown have the data to back up what they are saying about particular groups? Have this person done surveys personally, known people from the specific groups involved in specific alleged incidents? If so, let’s hear about it, but if it’s merely a conjecture (the statements ptown made) then it should be stated as such, not stated as fact.

    Clearly what I have said has touch a nerve with you “what?”. Otherwise you wouldn’t have had a reason to respond negatively about asking someone to state references, statistics, etc. You don’t even know whether I am male or female, gay or straight or what my views are on prop 8. I think you would be surprised. It is interesting however to see how many people have responded negatively when I merely stated that people should not make sweeping generalizations about particular groups and then I was flamed excessively.

  61. Qwerty,

    As I already said, I’m not singling any particular group out, just the people who use their group’s identity and beliefs as the main way of living. To answer your question, I’ve had very little interaction with certain religious groups because of their displayed behavior and actions, except for the friends I have that are either Mormon or Christian. Why would I want to sit and ‘chat’ with people that go around calling myself and others “fag”? Makes no sense. Secondly, it has been difficult to discuss some of these topics with others because all they do is stare at you, then turn to the counterparts, laugh, point, make remarks under their breath, and walk away. I’m all for sitting down and discussing this topic with other people but not when derogatory words are used and false claims are made- that will not get either party anywhere.

  62. Qwerty, I don’t need to do any type of survey. I think my own personal experience is enough for me to see how certain groups act and behave, and display their beliefs onto others. And yes, the groups I have spoken of have come from my own experience. A group of Mormon students when I attended Amador are the one’s who have excluded themselves. A group of students that also happened to be going to St. Augstine’s at the same time as myself, happened to walk by and shove myself, as well as a few other friends I know, into lockers. A good friend that I’ve known since Kindergarten (we went to Walnut Groove, had Pre-First together, if you know what that was back in the ’80’s)happened to become addicted to meth and had to go on independent study because of the constant verbal abuse by other students. He was then forced to go to some rehab in Utah (kind of ironic). A few short stories should be enough for people to understand that equality is very slim.

  63. Querty!

    “I merely stated that people should not make sweeping generalizations about particular groups and then I was flamed excessively.”

    How were YOU “flamed excessively” you poor individual. Take a look at the comments in this thread towards ALL Gays and more specifically Ptown94566 if you want to see “flamed excessively”!!!

    You seem to doubt that MANY Christians openly harass Gays! OPEN your eys!

  67. A very interesting post – it’s 2014 and the above was posted in 2009! Gay marriage is now legal in CA.

    Has anybody changed their views?

    I suspect that Qwerty was struggling deeply re: coming out and didn’t know it!

    Strange how some folks deal with their issues! As I recall, Qwerty has volunteered to work in public schools, luvs to prance though cross walks claiming that he can outrun a speeding car…how come Qwerty can’t admit that he likes to show off his strong he/she girl legs? hmmmmmmmmmm…just axing! tee hee…

    Had “Right” hatched yet? …in 2009?

    Cholo been had some waaaaay serious thoughts about this matter of the law!!!

    Where do you stand in January 2014? just axing…

    ps What in the world is the Qwert doing with that nasty tongue of his/hers these days….hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

  68. Or, should I say, what is the Squirty doing with those great big ole hairy muscular legs than can outrun a speeding car?

    Still all moist ‘n ready to whine? Discuss chemistry? Volunteer teacher?

    Your mystery fan is waiting…are you ready?

    Joined at the hip with another fella these days…hmmmmmmmmmmm?

    tee hee…

  69. Congrats on your lesbo neighbors, mike. Maybe you can have them babysit your preteen daughter at their house sometime since you’re such an open minded bleeding heart liberal.

  70. Frankly, I don’t care if gay people get married. I’ve been to “commitment ceremonies” that were every bit as emotional and touching as church marriages. My issue with the entire issue is that it has been voted on already… TWICE!

    It’s clear that the majority of CA voters feel that the institution of marriage (as recognized by the state) should be between a man and a woman… period. Why is this a recurring ballot measure?! Have a beautiful touching romantic “commitment ceremony” and be happy with it! Why must it be tagged with the word “marriage”? Does that make it better or more of a commitment or guarantee long-term success? (hint: NO)

    Most companies and insurance carriers recognize same-sex couples for benefits and legal purposes. So, stop trying to LEGISLATE it. It only riles up the homophobic masses, and leads to unpleasant exchanges.

  71. Clarification: You write that you “haven’t yet been persuaded otherwise that a man that is gay is more than 90% likely to have not had male affirmation by their father.” Have you considered the possibility that the gay men in the studies you read did not receive male affermation from their father because their fathers could not deal with the idea that the son might be gay? And do the studies say what percentage of men who are straight did or did not receive male affirmation from their fathers. Which is the cause and which the effect?

    And exactly what is “male affirmation” anyway? Playing baseball? Hunting? How would those activites encourage heterosexuality?

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