Original post made
on Mar 8, 2013
So with this new form of "justice" a student can steal a laptop and all that happens is he/she has a conversation about feelings? The student does not have to worry about being suspended and I guess doesn't have to worry about being arrested either!
I'm not so sure that was a "talking stick" that the wise man of the tribe passed around. I think it was peace pipe filled with medicinal marijuana..anyways...I am hoping that next weeks edition will feature a better hypothetical case where the "Restorative Justice" program is used. I'm sure there are thousands of men and women in the jails and prisons across this great United States that wish they had their crimes adjudicated in a "non confrontational" program like "Restorative Justice"..
I'm going across the street to steal my neighbors car...I'm interest to find out how he is going to feel about that, as long as I find out in a non confrontational manner!
I'm moving to another planet.....
Very interesting idea, no doubt influenced by South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation approach. Is meant to bring the community together, in contrast to nonreflexive penalties that only drive an additional wedge between perpetrator and aggrieved. On our way toward living in a better planet....
Poor, naive Trevor. Wait until you're a victim of crime and we'll see how you change your tune. By the way, did you hear the top cop on the Bladerunner case in South Africa was dismissed from the force....he's apparently up against his own murder charges from 2010. Yup, South Africa leading the way toa better planet...ask Winnie Mandela....
What does the Bladerunner case have to do with S. Africa's Truth and Reconciliation commisions? And why mention Winnie Mandela to the exclusion of her extraordinary husband, Nelson Mandela? Perhaps some people are simply incapable of learning anything at all. The level of ignorance on these threads is really quite astounding.
I don't know why being a victim of a crime should change one's view on this matter, unless one is so bound up in one's own hatred of others and disappointment in their own lives that they're incapable of learning from others. I have been a victim several times, yet I'm not so blinded by hatred that I've closed myself to the possibility of reconciliation.
As much as I appreciate the growing pains of teens, a thief is a thief.
I guess how I would respond would depend upon the offense, crime. If somebody stole my computer, I wouldn't flip out. However, if I found out who did it, somebody would get knocked out.
I would be willing to talk it out after the fight.
Mess with my garden and my veggies and flowers, you're in deep do-do.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Trevor. I'm actually not surprised you consider yourself a victim and that you confirmed how naive you are. Your becoming a victim was no doubt a consequence of your miscalculation of human nature. The fact you let it occur several times sound like the definition of insanity.
You can try, but you'll never change criminals violent tendencies, despite all the feel good, trusting pacifist pablum you are being spoon fed. Keep it up, the left wing in this country needs more victims....it's what they thrive on, keeping you dependent on them to provide programs to protect you, even from yourself.
Trevor asked you a number of questions that seemed reasonable to ask in response to your peculiar comments. But instead of addressing his questions, you chose to insult him. Your response verifies that you're too bound up in your hatred of others and your own reduced sense of worth to engage in reasonable debate. Get help.
If the school thinks that getting these criminals and bullies to hug trees and do a sing-along will turn those thugs around then they need at the very least to force the parents to show up as well. Make mommie and daddie take time off from their golfing and manicures to be there during the week and listen to what their brat has been up to. The only thing that matters to Pleasanton parents and kids is how much money they have and their relative status among their peers. Force all of them to sit there and listen for a whole day and there might be a very small attitude adjustment.
Personally, I'm with Cholo on this one. You steal my stuff I beat the crap out of you. Then we can make nice. Maybe.
... and yet another hater. Lots of unhappy people out there with pent-up rage toward others. Envy? Probably. But one wonders whether perhaps a program such as Youth Justice might have helped the hateful steve, the combative cholo, and the envious resident.
This is wunderbar for teaching elementary kids about the foundations of right and wrong, but we're way past this for teenagers and adults, who, we now understand, are more likely to manipulate sympathy from the kumbaya moment than they are to actually learn and reform. We see this a whole lot in prisons, too.
While history is full of gems, systems generally evolve and change to correct inadequacies rather than simply because people have forgotten the wisdom of the old ways. For this reason, it's always best to be wary of those who wish to look backwards to find solutions.
I swore I wasn't gonna get caught up in this but just one more comment, or maybe two.
Steve, I would like to answer the questions posed to you by Trevor(I do not think your comments were peculiar)..I think Steve was pointing to the fact that it is rather apparent that the Bladerunner killed his girlfriend and due to an inept justice system he is already out on bail and will probably beat the rap. The lead detective on the case has charges pending against him for a 2009 case of attempted murder that he thought had been dismissed. So what had the Truth and Reconcillation Commission been doing with that case? Sitting around in tribes passing a talking stick?
I will admit that I am a bit ignorant to everything that has been going on in South Africa so correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Nelson Mandela falsely imprisoned for decades? ( Maybe that happened before the commissions)
Lastly.....I am a first timer to the forum so I have to ask, why do people not use their full names? Are you afraid that someone may know you, approach you on the street and punch you in the nose? How would that make you feel? I think we need to talk about that over a couple of cold ones!
i am so escair of denise heart...she must be very brave and funny...tee hee hee...he must be what is called a tough cookie!
now we all know how stupid you are...
So correct me on Mandela like I requested
Sitting around in tribes passing a talking stick?
Sounds a lot like Steve trying to convince us all that Dennis is his real name. The hatred and bigotry is just spilling out of his ears.
Correct you on Mandela? Like I said, Get Help.
Yes on youth justice aka Trevor, it's good to know there are self righteous fools in our midst, just waiting to throw themselves into the middle of a violent altercation just to save us. You really need to wake up and live in the real world, with humans who have a wide range of emotions, some not rational, like yours. If you think you can solve crime and heal the human heart from violence, you're so much better than all the geniuses who preceded you. Since that's not likely, we will just assume you're another limp wristed Berkeley liberal who thinks they know how to solve the world problems with flowers and chants. Good luck with that....peace, out.......
After you put forward some ridiculous claims, I asked nicely some questions that might help you to defend them. Instead, all you have provided us with is lots of bile. Did something very serious happen to you in your youth that you haven't yet come to grips with? Perhaps if you had had an opportunity to confront your violator in a peaceful and controlled setting you might better have been able to deal with your emotions over all these years.
You might profit in reading about South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commissions. They were instituted after Nelson Mandela became president of South Africa after having spent most of his adult life in prison during S. Africa's aparthied period. Nothing limp-wristed at all about this great man, I can tell you. The commissions were meant to bring together an aggrieved and victimized people, on the one hand, and those who had been cruel perpetrators of violence, on the other. The commissions have met with some failures amidst some extraordinary successes as the nation has worked in good faith toward healing the deep wounds caused by decade upon decade of violence.
There are 2 problems with the program. 1st is that it is misnamed. Nothing is being restored. The 2nd is that there is no Justice without punitive consequenses. Its like "not guilty due to lack of feeling the others pain". Most of the students will repeat the same of similar offenses.
J.R., you don't know what you're talking about. Also, learn how to spell, otherwise we must punish you because punishment is all you'll understand.
Trevor, go stand in the corner & sing to yourself. Ok, so I spelled a word incorrectly. the point is that this process does not modify the behavior. Neither did the 4 hour saturday school. At some point the kid & the parents need to take responsibility for their collective actions & behaviors. Wake up & smell the coffee.
Fact is, you don't know much about anythng. Unlike other species, we don't behave; rather, we act as intentional beings. We're capable of reflection and a will to change our ways. Such has been exemplified with the S. African Truth and Reconciliation Commissions of which you appear to know nothing, no doubt because of your own ignorance and a fear that real knowledge might challenge the biases within which you find yourself so tightly wrapped.
It is truly sad when your best reply is to denigrate & belittle the person whith whom you are attempting to have a civil discussion. Perhaps you should submit to the S. Africal Truth & Reconciliation Commission but they sound like process that was used in China under Mao. Best of luck to you.
Please spell out for us more elaborately if you would how the Soouth African Truth and Reconciliation Commissions resemble the indoctrination ("re-education"?) processes used under Mao. We're waiting for a clear and helpful response. Your responses using the names Steve and Dennis Hart didn't go anywhere. Perhaps you can get a second breath with this, your third name. We, on the other hand, won't hold our breath.
Did not use any other name. By the way, south only has 1 "o" not 2 so perhaps it is you that needs to learn how to spell! You clearly are unable to hold a civil conversation with someone who holds a different position so I will not respond to any future posting on this subject. Best regards. J.R.
Translation: J.R. is bitter and hateful and has nothing to offer accept cheap-shot criticism of attempts to improve society. What a truly terrible loss to this discussion board, not only J.R. but the other names he's offered as well.
We can't teach them enough math and science to get them a decent job (unless parents send them to Kumon, etc.), but we are going to spend our time and somebody's money on this nonsense. Don't we need to hire a Restorative Justice Administrator and pay them at least $200,000 per year?
Typical Liberal thinking. They never actually fix the problem, they only address the symptom and its all about feelings. "Restorative Justice" is a tool used where a sense of community already exists. As quoted in the article "I think that in modern times we've lost the importance of what that feels like, to be living together in community. What does that mean? We've lost that." Reading these posts, we have a long way to go to rebuild a sense of community.