Socialist website - millions to lose health coverage State, National, International, posted by jimf01, a resident of another community, on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:58 pm jimf01 is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
In an attempt to find common ground, I present the socialist point of view! The legislative centerpiece of Obama's first term. What was it? Oh yeah, y'all might've forgotten that, since Obama omitted any mention of it from the SOTU speech, health care.
We get a trillion in new deficits, a massive new bureaucracy layered atop the gargantuan bureaucracy we already have in DC, and new taxes and penalties if you do not want to play. Own a business? Better not start turning away business! Better not hire more than five employees, if you are a small business just starting up.
But if you are just the average working stiff who cannot buy a home, you can rent from the rich investors buying up real estate, at least you have the new healthcare program from Obama to ease some uncertainty. Ooops, no wait. The CBO says 20 million people could lose employer provided coverage, due to that law Web Link
Yep, that law that Obama touted all over the country, telling us we can keep our coverage Web Link
It was just those lying right wing conspiracy theorists and tea partiers telling you lying lies! No, now it's the CBO.
Yes, the right wing pundits out this week saying the cost of Obamacare had doubled were not terribly accurate. To say that this legislature was touted and sold for it's price tag of $900 billion for ten years, and that the real cost of providing benefits for ten years is more than double that amount, however, is absolutely true.
So the price is double what was advertised, and no, you cannot necessarily keep your plan. Which government agency do I call to report a BAIT and SWITCH SCAM??
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Mar 17, 2012 at 6:36 pm
So true, b, they just make due with sub par treatment, long lines, not enough drugs for treatment, doctor shortages, rationing of services and supplies and govt bureaucracies that essentially decide who lives and eis, based on they can justify coverage.
Other than those things, your panacea of socialized health plans is just peachy....
Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community, on Mar 18, 2012 at 10:24 am jimf01 is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
You're right Steve. Mention the failures and fallacy of this legislation, and the argument is for socialized medicine. I think that's a hoot.
I would hope that one left leaning commenter here would agree with the socialist news site, who essentially agree that the Tea Party was truthful with the American public in our protest, and accurate in analyzing the negative effects of the legislation on individuals and businesses, in addition to being a massive expansion of government and a fiscal burden.
Posted by b, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 6:36 pm
The primary failure of this healthcare reform legislation was the attempts to find common ground with Republican obstructionists. We would've been far better off just doing what needed to be done, rather than watering down the real reforms, and trying to compromise with unreasonable people. These are not real Progressive reforms.
Obama's biggest problem is that he's a wimp. You can quote me on that.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Actually, b, in know it's easy for you to dismiss those who know more than your about govt mandated healthcare, so I'll forgive you for your predictable swipe at Fox news. I have a good friend who came here from Cuba several years ago that gave me a lesson in why govts are not capable of keeping the general population healthy (much less alive). You cited Aus and Canada, but many of their sickest residents come here for care, as do many dignitaries from other countries. Why is that? And what of the common folk that need specialized care? Healthcare rationing forces them to do without and die ahead of their counterparts with similar ailments in the US. Until obamacare....
Posted by b, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 6:46 pm
If the TEA Party is going to take credit for being "right" about the cost increases to individuals and small businesses this past year, it is only fair to attribute the cost increases of the past DECADE to Bush and the failures of the private health insurance system.
For much of the 2000's, I was seeing 20-30% annual increases in my small company's health insurance premiums. It absolutely hindered our ability to grow our team and increase compensation. Without that problem, there wouldve been no need for reform in the first place.
It was that experience that drove my support for a single payer system. A decade ago, I was all for private market insurance. But it doesn't work anymore, and costs far more than what our Canadian and Australian friends pay for great care.
Posted by b, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 6:56 pm
You're comparing our system to CUBA?! really?
Yes, I'm calling out Canada and Australia. That's based on real, deep conversations with my friends and family from those countries. That's far more real than your soundbites about Canadians coming to the US for surgery.
And if that's your best argument, you have to look at the flip side--all the US citizens who are going to India, Mexico, etc. to have life saving surgery because it is far cheaper there. Surely you've heard about that? Go Google "medical tourism." it is a massive industry now, and a uniquely American concept.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 7:44 pm
B, your narrow concept of healthcare is focused solely on cost to the patient, not the quality of care, which is exactly the scenario that Cubas failure illustrates. Thanks for supporting my view.
Your 'family and friend' present a compelling case (not) to change the coverage for all US citizens and the illegals that will be subject to obamacare.
Medical tourism, really? This is why we should support forcing everyone to pay for socialized medicine? So, if we're already behind the curve with mostly elective surgeries in foreign countries, let the free market prevail.
To create a multi trillion dollar govt bureaucracy in our country to emulate the poor quality of care in foreign (read unregulated) countries is a big step backwards. Why would you advocate for that, unless you're a lawyer looking to make a fast buck?
Posted by b, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 18, 2012 at 9:03 pm
There is nothing "poor" about the quality of healthcare in Canada and Australia. It is truly outstanding. Outstanding providers, outstanding technology, and not a single person being bankrupted. Yes, some people have to wait a little longer for less-critical surgeries. That does not kill people, despite what Sarah Palin wants you to believe. And if you want to pay a private provider for super-premium care, capitalism is alive and well in those nations--there are private add-on plans or premium private care options for those who are willing to pay more for that experience.
Clearly, you've also never had to deal directly with a private insurance company here in the US. I spent 9 months and dozens of hours fighting an insurance company over a clerical mistake. Not a dispute. A mistake. It finally got resolved when I complained to a government regulator--the CA Dept of Insurance.
Ever tried talking a private employer into changing insurance companies? Ever tried to do it as a business owner? I've tried it both ways, and it is next to impossible, for a variety of reasons. This is most certainly not a healthy, competitive free market.
Why are you so tied to this system? Other First World nations have demonstrated that outstanding single payer systems are possible. Costs are ridiculously lower than what we pay. Nobody goes bankrupt due to getting sick or due to rising premiums. Customer service is equal to or better than these awful giant insurers. Care is provided by outstanding, well-paid professionals. And no, people are not dying as the result of government death panels--that is just Sarah's fear mongering.
Who stands to gain from our current system? Just the insurance companies. Despite what you think, you're not getting more for your money.
What do I stand to gain? Well, I like keeping my own money, instead of pouring it into someone else's pocket. I like the idea of predictable costs, not the fear of massive annual premium increases, or big bills if my family members get sick. That's what insurance is supposed to protect against, but it is very broken.
Posted by cautionary tale, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2012 at 12:36 am
Haven't the Tea Party people lost enough elections to start reeling themselves in. Really, pull the head out and start looking at reality. Get a better argument than the 2-3 droning statements that base their foundation in "hating Obama".
You guys got in the race, had your chance and now you've lost consistently. I'm not saying you don't have good points, but gesh could you get a little more articulate about them.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2012 at 7:47 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
b wrote: "Other First World nations have demonstrated that outstanding single payer systems are possible"
Like in the case of Taiwan, which went from a system like ours to a single payer system and dramatically lowered their health care costs. Countries just aren't scrambling to implement a system like what we have in the US here because it's *broken*. The numbers of uninsured *and* underinsured continue to rise.
steve wrote: "You cited Aus and Canada, but many of their sickest residents come here for care, as do many dignitaries from other countries. Why is that? And what of the common folk that need specialized care?"
Why is it that many of their sickest residents come here for care? Easy answer. The US does great at research care and is one of the reasons why the US is an outlier in health care spending (more advanced procedures naturally cost more and that's actually a good thing). Those "sickest residents" are able to come here and get advanced and highly specialized care. (Incidentally, who does steve thinks pays for that?) But what of the common folk? Here many don't even get *basic* care because they can't afford it without going bankrupt. And this is the area where the US system does very poorly. It's a form of health care rationing.
steve wrote: "So, if we're already behind the curve with mostly elective surgeries in foreign countries, let the free market prevail. "
Great idea, steve. When you're next in immediate need of medical attention, let me know how your attempt to shop around for the best value care goes. Do you ask the ambulance driver to take you for the $100,000 procedure over at ValleyCare or go for the $80,000 procedure at Tracy Community? I'm sorry, steve, but health care is not the kind of market that you wish it to be.
Posted by hoops, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Facts are facts.We pay more and have worse care overall than any large industrialized nation.Switzerland which is a very independent freedom loving country instituted a plan with an indiv mandate 20 years ago and they have better healthcare at 11% of their GDP while we are at 17% of our GDP.We need to eliminate employers from having to pay for health care and make some revisions to Obamacare but keep a lot of it.Health care cannot operate as a free market system because it is different than any other service.5% of the population rings up 50% of the cost because of longterm problems and catastrophic illness.What we have always done is clearly failing and killing us financially as well.It is rather ironic that the vast majority of people on Medicare happen to like it.Who would of thought.
Posted by hoops, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2012 at 3:27 pm
One other thing....For different reasons I have had 5 different policies in the past 8 years and every company has raised my premiums every 6 months and I have had no procedures other than basic physicals and a few office visits.
Posted by Deuce, a resident of the Danbury Park neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2012 at 8:42 pm
I'm poor myself, but I wouldn't want a different system, and specially the socialistic ObamaCare. I work part-time, and my wife pays most of the bills, but I like to think of myself as a millionaire. You know, just like teenage girls all dream of being Adele or Taylor Swift? I dream I'm a rich guy who exploits everyone around me but gets a big tombstone in the graveyard once he's passed away. The problem with US system is we have too many unionized nurses. We could do without half of them, and the other half we should only pay minimum wage. How much training does it take to dispense a pill or empty a bed pan?
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Mar 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm
I always suggest that if you don't have health insurance, just drop into any hospital ER and get treatment. If you don't have money or you're in the US illegally, don't pay. Keep it simple. My suggestion seems to be working for thousands.
Posted by Rienhold, a resident of the West of Foothill neighborhood, on Mar 26, 2012 at 10:00 am
I'm of solid German stock whose family moved here from Oklahoma in the 1930s. I agree with Cholo. If you can't afford anythihg better, that's what you and your children deserve. It's time we tighten our belts, put our shoulders to the oxcart, and push on without all these parasite slugs who only decrease the gene pool anyway.