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illegal immigrants whose fault is it??

Original post made by hoops on Oct 18, 2011

Take a deep breath and imagine the Bay Area 25 years ago.Who did you hire to paint your house,cut down a tree,install new flooring?If you drove by a new home construction site who was doing the construction?These are just a few examples of good middle class jobs that use to be done by American citizens.People use to make a decent living doing jobs like these.Now the wages have been slashed and guess who is doing the majority of the work?It is really our fault.Our businesses hire them and we hire them because it is cheaper and for no other reason than that.So maybe we save a little money on whatever work we are having done but at what cost to our society.With all the people out of work are we really saving money as a nation,especially when you add in the costs of educating the children of illegals,the healthcare and all the other problems that come with it.To be honest if I was poor with no hope living in Mexico and could sneek into the U.S. and get a job and a decent life I would too.But it has snowballed and gotten so out of control,and it is OUR fault for allowing it to happen.If there were no jobs,there would be no illegals.It all comes down to the greed of business's and to all of us who are happy to pay 75 bucks a month for our landscaping instead of 150 or whatever.It is like we opened Pandora's box.Big corps send there jobs overseas and the same thing is the result.We get cheaper goods and we have no jobs.Great the America has changed for the better.It all comes down to money and now we are paying the price.

Comments (50)

Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Oct 18, 2011 at 10:17 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

Of course, hoops, the reply will be, in between hinting that you are a racist and a xenophobe, that we should focus on the solution.
The amazing thing to me is that our current President, who many on the right view as pro-amnesty, has called for immigration reform that is really not significantly different from what many on the right are calling for.
Why can't the two sides get together and fix the problem? Is it simply easier to use it as a wedge issue to gain votes? Many people would agree that there are many jobs done by illegals that are career-type, good paying jobs, in restaurant and hospitality industries, construction and other industries. It's likely the campaign contributors who own these corporations are pushing the status quo to maintain a cheaper labor force.

To be certain, Obama is not above using immigration to gain votes, saying just prior to the 2008 election "We're going to punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us" -- I wrote about Obama's 2010 immigration speech here last year Web Link

At the time, I said: "The GOP could claim real leadership here and get more votes in November by seizing on this issue, creating the comprehensive legislation that entails everything the President asks for. They can satisfy conservatives by including provisions to first secure the borders, and incentivize those here illegally to self-deport."

Enforcement including making e-verify mandatory would be a simple solution to incentivize those here illegally to self-deport.
The result would be to open a large number jobs in this country. Illegal aliens could be allowed to return via guest worker programs if they do not want to use the immigration system that everyone coming to the US legally, seeking the American dream, are using today.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:20 am

I won't hint it. In addition to sounding racist and xenophobic, Hoops, your writing shows a lack of education. Instead of whining about brown yardmen outcompeting you, why don't you go back to school and attempt to better yourself? We've got the best educational system in the world, and all Hoops can do is bellyache about brown people taking his lawn-cutting jobs from him. Talk about land of (lost) opportunity. Too many pesticides in the lawns you've been cutting all these years?

And, yeah, just what we need. Bridges are crumbling, roads are in dire need of repair, we desperately need better mass transit systems, and the above racist poster wants to double or triple border enforcement. Lots of jobs, he claims, without noting a further strain upon govt and tax payer, and getting nothing in return. Right, what we really need are 20-30 thousand more Border Patrol agents to catch border crossers, send them back across the border, catch them again, return them again .... It's hilarious that the so-called budget cutters at the same time have no qualms about hiring more prison guards and border patrol in our increasingly carceral society.

Such is the right-wing message. Cut govt assistance to poor people of color; increase spending to build prisons to house black people and border patrol to keep brown people out. No way to sugarcoat these racists and xenophobes.


Posted by steve, a resident of Parkside
on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:36 am

No surprise that the open borders crowd has shown up to defend the indefensible. We get nothing in return now, charley, so what exactly was your point again?
No doubt, if Hoops took your condescending, preachy advice to go back to school, he'd find that the classes he needs are now filled with illegals or their offspring (anchor babies) that we taxpayers are supporting through the recently passed law Gov. Brown signed to accommodate the latino voting bloc he's trying to court.


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:55 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

And the same open borders crowd fail to account for the underground economy operated by those here illegally, and those who employ them.
If we need to fix these crumbling bridges (by the way, maybe I could ask that we label these crumbling bridges, so I can drive faster if I need to cross one of them?), how about getting those folks to pay their fair share of taxes? No payroll taxes when you get paid under the table, and when a legitimate business hires an illegal and they have no documented income, their family members are also free to take advantage of any and all public assistance and entitlement programs.
You shoot yourself in the foot with your own argument sunshine


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:59 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

And add to this that people like SC up above ignore the fact that a porous border is not open only to those who wish to come in illegally only to do honest work for honest pay, but terrorists and drug runners as well. The flow of OTM's (other than Mexicans) across the southern border is confirmed to be an increasing occurrence.


Posted by Simone, a resident of Downtown
on Oct 18, 2011 at 12:02 pm

[Post removed due to same poster using multiple names]


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 18, 2011 at 12:19 pm

[Post removed due to same poster using multiple names]


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Oct 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

Thanks for proving me right. You can tell hateful anonymous trolls here that the CBO states there is "no reliable data on unauthorized immigrants' rate of compliance with tax laws" and that although the 2010 census says they counted at least 10 million illegal immigrants (76% of whom are latino), the IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.
In the best case scenario, simple math says that no more than 60% of illegal immigrants are in compliance.
These figures do not take into account people who are being paid "under the table", or are paying taxes on a portion of their income.

But of course, the hateful anonymous trolls have no solution, nor any response but to call people names who would address the issue or propose a solution. Add this to the list of reasons why the politicians cannot arrive at a solution to the problems.


Posted by steve, a resident of Parkside
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:20 pm

Looks like the trolls posts got removed before I had a chance to benefit from their wisdom and utopian philosophies. Darn :)


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:35 pm

People are so interesting.So I am a racist because I think that there is something wrong with 12,000,000 illegally entering this country.If you read my post I am blaming Americans for providing the jobs and creating the problem.As I stated I would come here for a job if I was desperate for a decent life and U.S. citizens were willing to pay me.That is racist???The problem was created by us and they have taken advantage of it,pure and simple.And to mr.sunshine charley who truly is a ray of sunshine,I do have a good education and my business is just fine.You should maybe do a little less name calling mr.sunshine and swallow a little bit of that arrogance.I am lucky enough to have not been hurt much by this problem personally,but I know a lot of people that have.If anyone ever visited Phoenix or Las Vegas during the housing boom 6 or 7 years ago,thousands of houses being framed everywhere you looked and probably 75% otf the workers illegal.I do not blame the people for trying to live a decent life and taking jobs we offered them,but at what cost to us?WE ,and our businesses and corps who took on all the cheap labor, caused this problem and put ourselves out of work.If there were no jobs the illegal workers would go back home.That is the plain and honest truth and you cannot rationalize it away.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:51 pm

Hoops, "We" want the best we can get for the money "we" work hard to earn. Corporations/businesses face competition, so they offer jobs at X to meet the demands of the market; people accept them; "we" hire the business accordingly. You do not acknowledge that many illegal aliens pay into social security and various payroll taxes with no hope of collecting. So there is a plus column you need to add to the tally sheet when you are talking about the costs.

"We" all came here from somewhere else, and each group (ethnicity) faced similar concerns about their contributions over costs.


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 18, 2011 at 3:33 pm

Kathleen,I understand that but what has happened is say Toll Bros starts hiring cheap labor and letting go of American workers so now Pulte does the same to compete with Toll Bros,then all the builders do it to compete on price and before you know it we have what we have.The same thing has happened in other trades like flooring as an example.Once one bigger business started it the others start losing bids so they do it,and it goes on and on until the whole dynamic has changed the workforce to a dominant cheap labor labor force to be competitive.It sounds simplistic but that is what has happened.Customers are happy to be able to get things a little cheaper but not the people who lost jobs.We are a country of immigrants,legal immigrants.To be honest I don't know what to do.Once you let all the illegals in and give them jobs and their kids are going to our schools,it is kind of tough to tell them they have to go home.WE afterall told them it was ok because we have given them jobs.My main point is that MONEY has created the immigration and job disaster that we now face.Big business and small business owners and everyone of us who like the money we think we save.Simple things like HOA dues...you pay them?Part of it is the landscape maintenance for the community....ever pay attention to who is doing the work?We probably pay a little less but jobs are gone.Please do not call me a racist because I am not.I again blame us.


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Oct 18, 2011 at 3:40 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

Right hoops, and the restaurant and hospitality industries are the same. These businesses, and the industry groups are pressuring Congress to not enforce or change our immigration laws, and they pay the bills for the campaign. Changing the way political campaigns are run to take the money out of them, and then electing honest citizens to office will change things. Until then, nothing will change because almost every politician is corrupt, either legally corrupt through campaign donations, or breaking actual laws by taking bribes, etc.


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 18, 2011 at 3:44 pm

Last point.When you are isolated from work that is being lost because of this issue,for example you work in IT in silicon valley,you see it differently.If your friends at Apple or wherever were getting laid off because they were hiring illegal IT people for half the salary,or you wages were being cut back to 1990 levels how would you see it?Of course the tech people have outsourcing issues of their own which is a whole another subject.Anyway a very difficult problem with no real solution.Sorry for the long posts,I guess I am lonely.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Oct 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm

I must say that I'm grateful that Americans hire "illegals".

I couldn't be happier!

The USA is indeed a land of opportunity. VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 18, 2011 at 4:10 pm

Cholo,if you are illegal and have come here and improved your life I bet you are happy.I do not have any ill will towards you personally. because I would do the same.However having 12,000,000 of you or so has created a little problem.Take care.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 18, 2011 at 4:10 pm

Hoops,

Perhaps if the legal gardener were charging 75 bucks instead of 150, we could solve the problem. What I mean is that it's a two-way street.

Mike


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 18, 2011 at 7:13 pm

Mike,
I do not really know about landcsaping prices.I do know about my business and I can tell you with 100 certainty that a lot of companies are paying the same wage to the trades people today that the first company I worked for in my field did in 1983.God's honest truth.I own my own business now but I know what my competition is paying because some of their employees now work for me.It is really tough to compete with that.Is it fair for someone with a good job skill that takes years to really learn, to work their butt off and barely make enough to survive in the bay area because the illegal labor has compromised the system so severely???Again it is our fault ,not the illegals.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Oct 18, 2011 at 7:45 pm

[Removed because post consisted of only a website and no conversation.]


Posted by Pete , a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 18, 2011 at 9:37 pm

Hoops, co-op your abilities, finances with other like minded persons... buy house, fix it up, sell it and move to another. Your "God"s honest truth" comment has been true since before 1990 in the majority of trades... nothing new.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 18, 2011 at 10:15 pm

Hoops,

"Is it fair for someone with a good job skill that takes years to really learn, to work their butt off and barely make enough to survive in the bay area because the illegal labor has compromised the system so severely?"

I feel your pain, but every business strives to beat the competition on price, quality and service. That's the American way. Focus on ways to cut costs or convince customers that your quality and service are worth the difference.

Good luck!

Mike


Posted by Jack, a resident of Downtown
on Oct 18, 2011 at 10:31 pm

[Removed because Jack didn't brush his teeth this morning]


Posted by Ron, a resident of Avila
on Oct 19, 2011 at 11:35 am

Yesterday my son was parked at a light, two cars were ahead and one behind him. A fifth car rear ended the last car causing a five car chain reaction. The car that caused the terrible accident was driven by a mexican woman with no insurance or drivers license.

My son a recent college grad is working a professional job for a recognized company. He is not making a truly living wage but is responsible and is insured. The costs of illegal immigration are great.

Italy and many socialist countries have passed new laws to try to save their countries, when will we wake up?


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 19, 2011 at 11:40 am

Mike,is it the American way for business A to slash their labor by 50 % by hiring illegals while business B operates by the law and pays legal workers a fair wage?I do not think that is the American way we use to know but it seems to be the new one.So Mike, say you were working for me and making say 75k a year.I am going to follow your suggestion and cut my costs to be competitive.My profit is already at the bare minimum to keep my business open.My only option to compete with my competition and lower my price is to cut your pay and now you are making 50k, or I hire an illegal who may or may not be quite as skilled as you, but competent enough,maybe even better than you and pay him 50k, or be really cutthroat and pay him 40k.You have no option so you accept the 50k and become bitter because now you cannot afford your mortgage.This is the problem.I can of course continue to pay you 75k until I cannot pay my mortgage.I am sure people will say just get more accounts and expand your business...easier to say then to do in this economy,believe me.It is a very serious problem.If you are doing a job for a client and the cost of your materials is say 500 dollars.Your competitions cost of materials is also 500 dollars.Your overheads are equal.Now,my labor cost is 400 dollars,my comps labor cost is 225 dollars.They bid the job at 900 dollars and make a profit of 175 dollars.Their bid is at my cost.How do you deal with that??What people do is they hire illegals to keep their business.Simple as that.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 19, 2011 at 3:20 pm

It was big of you, Hoops, to leave you and your 135K out of the equation. Let's see, I have to cut. Couldn't possibly cut my own profits, so instead it will be a matter of whether to reduce "my" worker's wage by a third or nearly half. I doubt you'll find many sympathizers among the OWS crowd you were crowing earlier about. In fact, you appear clueless as to what the message is. Indeed, you sound like the greedy buzzards you were chastizing above. Go figure!


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 pm

Hoops,

Work to convince customers that your quality and service are worth the difference.

I've found that in businesses where quality counts, there are always enough people willing to pay for it. That's your target demographic!

Good luck

Mike


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 20, 2011 at 10:32 am

Mr.sunshine,an avg income of 135k which is down now to about 100-110 because of the economy is really not what I would call rich living in Pleasanton,ca.I could not even refinance my house and I have no credit problems and the proper ratios in terms of loan balance and value of house.They denied the refinance because my income was down.So mr.sunshine if you owned a business, you would cut your own profits down to the point where you could not pay your bills instead of cutting wages, or laying people off, to keep the doors open.You are truly an amazing human being.And for your information I have not cut wages or layed anyone off.I was simply presenting a scenario to Mike.


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 20, 2011 at 10:57 am

Mike your solution sounds good in theory and it does apply to certain types of business,but it does not apply to my type of business.My business is driven by price in most cases.If I have a longterm account they are not going switch to another company over a few dollars,but when the difference becomes substanstial it becomes a problem,especially if it is a corporate account.The reason I have been ok is because I have a lot of longterm loyal accounts that are more ma and pop than corporate.It is impossible for me to get any new business from a corporate type account that has been using the illegal labor competition.These guys are always going after my accounts and it is a matter of time for me.Somebody retires and a new decisionmaker comes in and I am out.Business is a competitve sport and I have no problem losing to someone playing by the same rules,but when you play against someone using a different set of rules it is very,very difficult to win.Imagine playing a baseball game and the strike zone is twice as big against you both when you are up at bat or pitching.It is almost the same when labor prices are cut in half and everything else is equal.Anyway my point has been made and I am done with this topic.Just wanted to make people see how the illegal labor actually hurts an honest business.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 20, 2011 at 12:12 pm

Hoops, you're nothing but a crybaby. You can only complain about people who work more cheaply than you do. Do you think your tears are going to lead to mass deportations of undocumented immigrants?

You need to better educate yourself. Your woe-is-me "I only make 135K," then modified to 100-110K, and "How can anyone live on less than that" and then you talk about paying your employees less than that. Hypocritical, whiney, and I don't think you've earned anyone's sympathy here. Go back to school so that you have a skill that doesn't have you competing for stoop labor with undocumented immigrants.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 20, 2011 at 4:28 pm

Hoops,

You have my sympathy.

Maybe you can sit down with your employees and have a heart-to-heart talk about the situation. Employees will often go the extra mile for a good boss.

Mike


Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 22, 2011 at 10:47 am

Sunshine you are such an angry,bitter unhappy person you see the world from a very narrow perspective.You need to turn off Rush Limbaugh once in a while and think for yourself.I was not asking for sympathy or expecting or wanting anyone to feel sorry for me.I was very simply exposing a real problem to people so they can see what happens to a business in real terms.And mr.sunshine there are a lot of jobs in this country that require people with skills such as carpenters,electricians,contractors...people that build,install and fix things.I am sure you have called upon these uneducated crybabies who built this country along with scores of industrial related jobs,farmers,etc.I guess it would be best that they all go back to school and learn how to sit behind a desk.The world has changed sunshine and people need to adapt to be sure,but millions of these jobs have been stolen and are now being done by people who should not be here.Your attitude would change if you lost your job,your house because you were replaced by cheap labor.And mrsunshine how far does 110k go living in Pleasanton with 2 or 3 kids,college and that wonderful ca.cost of living?Do you know?Trust me when I say I am blessed to make 110k,but this is not 1950 and there is not much leftover to try to save for retirement.Do the math sunshine...Mortgage,prop tax,health insur,car insur,tuitions and on and on just like everyone else who lives a responsible life.There are no european vacations and mercedes benz in the garage.So do not villify me as a rich crybaby because I am pointing out the simple truth of what illegal labor does to small business and to PEOPLE who own or work in them.Just keep sitting on that couch sunshine with no understanding of the real world.


Posted by Hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 22, 2011 at 11:19 am

Mike,thank you for your positive feedback.As I was telling mr.sunshine I was simply trying to show the problems from a real small business perspective.People who are not close to it just generalize things they see on the news or whatever.I was just trying to show what happens in real life to the small business people that have to fight this everyday.Not looking for sympathy just trying to educate people on the reality and why there is anger.Anyway,I am really done with this now and it is pointless to trade insults with mr.sunshine so I am out.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 23, 2011 at 5:54 am

Maybe we should proportionalize a bit.

One undocumented immigrant must travel thousands of miles through hostile territory in order to do fieldwork in the United States. From his labors he is able to send $200 back to his family each week.

Hoopster, by accident of birth, makes somewhere between 100K and 135K per year (depending on which boo-hoo story he is telling). Hoopster wants us to feel sorry for him. He doesn't have a BMW parked in his gargage.

America ... we are indeed a very spoiled nation.


Posted by Hoops, a resident of Mohr Park
on Oct 23, 2011 at 11:46 am

Sunshine you truly know nothing about illegal immigrants that are working the trades and have their families living with them here.If you think the problem is a poor illegal immigrant sneaking into the country to pick fruit and send money back home to his family left behind, than you have no idea what you are talking about,really.As I stated many times,I respect the guts it takes to do what they do,but it does not change the reality of the problems created for American citizens and for immigrants trying to come here legally waiting in line forever.You love to keep denying the real issue by attacking me as a spoiled,rich American crybaby.So sunshine I take it that you are perfectly happy with the way things are because they do not really affect your life,except maybe you get some work done a little cheaper sometimes.Maybe we are selfish and spoiled.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:05 am

No, maybe it's more a matter of you being short-sighted and unable to see a world outside of your own little self-enclosed bubble. You respect their guts, but by golly, you sure don't want them competing with you. Do you really think a guy who needs to be here in USA to make a half-way decent living relative to options in Mexico cares whether you respect his guts or not? You're kidding no one beyond yourself.

I don't like hundreds of immigrants dying every year because some fascist country has put up a 1000 mile wall and has tens of thousands of armed fascist thugs "protecting" its border. To what end? So some soft-headed, poorly educated American-born laborer can make over 100K per year? I think if they do the kind of job you do, they should make as much as you do; or you should make the same amount as they do. I believe in rewarding competent work, not accident of birth and/or skin color. The more open borders become, the more people will come to realize what a drag on the system you tend to be.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 24, 2011 at 9:22 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Hoops,

This same poster would tell their child to eat up all the food on their plate because children in Africa are starving; diminishing both their own child and the fact that children in Africa _are_ starving. But hey, their child, by accident of their birth, has food on their plate and, by God, the ungrateful little yuppie must eat it all up no matter the reason! If they don't like the food, too bad. If they have a tummy ache, too bad. We should all be so lucky to have food on our plate and little yuppies should be made to feel that they and their feelings and concerns don't matter purely because of the accident of their birth.

Disgusting, isn't it?


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 24, 2011 at 9:40 am

Maybe someone else will be able to make sense of Stacey's vent. As for me, I'm not quite sure what to make of it, other than that she appears to harbor an extreme dislike for children.

Any logicians in our midst who might care to spend the remainder of the day unpacking her words along with guaranteed headache while so doing?


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 24, 2011 at 10:00 am

Stacey is a registered user.

A poster who regularly claims to be a mental giant amongst a sea of soft-headed, poorly educated Americans could not make sense of my post... I got a bridge to sell.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 24, 2011 at 10:11 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Sunshine,

Don't feed the troll. Here's some more proportion for you. The Sun will one day go supernova.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:13 pm

Too many private definitions from you, Stacey. 'Mental giant'? Your term, not mine. 'Troll' -- defined how? Anyone who disagrees with Stacey? Who knows?

As for your deep encryption above, with its seeming pedaphobic reference, I'm smart but not smart enough to even begin to decode it.

I do not understand how support for free trade of labor and open borders translates into a yuppie telling his kids to finish their dinner. Like I say, logician anyone? Or is it simply easier to shout Troll! Troll! and hope no one pays attention to your nonsense?


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:50 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Sunshine,

Don't know? Don't care. The Sun will go supernova one day. No matter how important you think your legitimate concerns are, the Sun must endure billions and billions of years of existence in a hostile Universe with no one to help it. It is a much more worthy object of attention.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:04 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Sunshine,

Why don't you just cut to the chase, anyway? You thought Hoops was a certain other poster you don't like and so you trotted out your "proportionalize a bit" routine to use the opportunity to do what, not give a superior argument for why we should support open borders and free trade of labor or even suggest solutions that would address the fundamental issue to the benefit of both illegal immigrant and American citizen, no! Of course, not! The whole purpose was to attack Hoops, belittle him, and show how dumb that poster looks, how ashamed that poster should be.

I mean, why not write that way? I did the same when I saw you posting here.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 25, 2011 at 12:29 am

@"I mean, why not write that way?"

Whew! I can think of many reasons not to write that way. Ascribing intent without evidence, casting aspersions, calling me a troll, and then further above attempting some kind of inept analogy that was impossible to decipher. Perhaps you need to go back to furnishing the info pieces you once were so fond of dredging up. Trying to write at the level of ideas rather exposes you, methinks.

If you disagree with my free trade of labor and open borders position, by all means state your disagreements. I'll not stoop to your level of name-calling. Despite your moans, I think I rather exposed the shortcomings of Hoops' views. Did I go on to expose the underdeveloped thought behind Hoops' views? I think I did. No apologies, and wish you could write more effectively so that we could actually understand what your own positions are.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 25, 2011 at 9:40 am

Stacey is a registered user.

"Did I go on to expose the underdeveloped thought behind Hoops' views? I think I did."

Lemme guess... You exposed Hoops with one of your "superior arguments". *rotfl* Thanks for feeding the troll! Perhaps when you provide a real argument for why American citizens should support open borders and free trade of labor, I might choose to respond sincerely.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 25, 2011 at 10:22 am

Why, Stace, the argument for open borders and free trade of labor is what all good liberty-loving Republicans would be arguing for were they not so consumed with hatred against people with brown skin.

It is nothing but an extension of NAFTA and other free trade policies, and the thinking behind them. Free trade of goods across borders is nothing but free trade of congealed labor. It is inconsistent and hypocritical to permit free trade of goods while restricting the labor that inheres in those goods.

Further, don't all liberty-loving Republicans support the idea of free movement of beings? So, what are you asking for, a dissertation? Or maybe instead I should take the route you frequently do and just paste someone else's opinion? Or, another of your common practices, calling someone whose opinions you don't approve a troll?

By the way, it didn't take "superior arguments" to expose the fallacy of Hoops' views, as his whiney, self-absorbed complaints I think failed to reach the threshhold of 'argument'.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 25, 2011 at 6:09 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Hey Sunshine, you seem to want to keep feeding this troll. Very well. Here's what the troll has to say:

Ooooh, so that's what all Republicans support and would argue? I wouldn't know too much about that, not being a Republican and all. Good one pointing out a hypocrisy on the right rather than giving an argument to support a position; a bit like saying Democrats should really put the thought of tarifs on Chinese goods out of their heads because free trade of congealed labor is just an extension of the thinking behind free trade of labor. Yep, hypocrisy, along with Hoops being a soft-headed, xenophobic, racist, uneducated, whiny, and self-absorbed complainer is why readers should support a free trade position.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 25, 2011 at 10:50 pm

Sorry, Stace, I'll try to simplify the argument even further for you the next time around.


Posted by Discrimination blowback, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 28, 2011 at 10:30 am

Hey Charlie, it's not just Brown's taking the landscaping, roofing, and flooring jobs. You say go to school so our families can all be above that.....yes, that was our plan, BUT, no the educators like Cal, decided to play god and give illegal browns our seats in college too. So since they NO LONGER treat our own kids equally, what are our kids to do ? ? The educ elite, gave themselves the power to choose to give priority to browns, illegals, etc, choosing to call them the 'underserved' etc. and servings them OVER our own white Alameda County born. RAGE ????? you bet. Helping race relations? only a fool would think that taking seats & futures away from us, will make things better. WE can protest in the streets too! Is that what it takes? Should our kids resort to that too ? IF only the educators would practice blind equality, which they seem unable to do. UNequal treatment, will not bring about equality.
The discrimination they practice against white males will blowback on them. UNequal treatment, is the wrong way to create equality.


Posted by Sunshine Charley, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

Hey Blow, So, your kids -- who I hope have better writing skills than you do -- couldn't get into Cal? Couldn't get into any of the other UC's? Couldn't get into any of the two dozen or so Cal States? Couldn't get into a junior college? I see. The picture of a retrograde hillbilly family who wallow in their own racist bile is becoming much clearer.


Posted by Discrimination blowback, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 28, 2011 at 1:43 pm

Sunny, trying to cleanse yourself by overcompensating injustices, does nothing but create more injustices. Why would you be so against equal treatment ? ? That's really retro !


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