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Tutoring by PUSD teachers?

Original post made by Amador Mom on Oct 11, 2011

I am looking at a tutoring service in town and notice it is all Pleasanton teachers that work there. Just as a gut reaction I can't help but feel there is a conflict of interest? This company charges a tremendous amount of money. Is there any policy regarding this type of activity in Pleasanton?

Comments (78)

Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 11, 2011 at 9:50 pm

Public school teachers should not be providing private services because of the potential for abuse.

Mike


Posted by Cindy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 12:57 am

Yes, absolutely. This is wong. I wote a letter to my representatives telling them I want them to pass a law that forbids public school teachers from doing anything but teach. No tudowing allowed. Let tudowing be done by nonteachers who are better fit to todow because they not union.


Posted by Michele, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Oct 12, 2011 at 8:26 am

The policy of the tutoring service is that, if you have one of their tutors as your teacher in school, you cannot be tutored by that teacher at their facility. I know this because my daughter and friend go there and that was one of the first questions they asked before we signed up. Actually, I would highly recommend this company because it has really helped my daughter in math. I can't say enough good things about this company. My daughter actually looks forward to her tutoring sessions because they are fun! I'm not sure if I'm suppose to say their name but you can easily find them on internet and it plainly says that they hire Pleasanton teachers. They are not trying to hide this fact, at all. The teachers also do camps over the summer, which I think is great. Everyone complains that teachers work a short year and here the teachers are working during the summer to make extra money and help kids struggling in school.


Posted by Let's Regulate, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:38 am

Yes lets regulate what people and teachers do in their off duty time. Last time I checked we have a free country.


Posted by Rick, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:41 am

True about freedom. Just a bit disturbing the same people teaching our kids are making more money for not doing it well enough while in school.


Posted by Community Professional, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 2:10 pm

I think that the teachers work very hard at school. They are told the number of students to teach and given time limits for each class.
They are also poorly paid, and live in a very high rent area. If they have a chance to tutor or "moonlight", I totally support them!
In no way does it detract from the job they are doing at school.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 12, 2011 at 3:44 pm

Cindy,

Teachers tutoring after hours as volunteers would be acceptable and noble; but doing so for money is undignified as well as unethical.

Some time ago, there was a thread in which posters complained about kids being pressured by their PE teachers to sign up for a private league with the implication that they wouldn't be able to play in the district league if they didn't.

Mike




Posted by Teachers are Greedy, a resident of Ruby Hill
on Oct 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm

Those teachers are greedy. All they care about are there bank accounts and there pensions that there union protects. They have summers off if they want to work more they should do that.


Posted by Their, there and they're are three different words, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm

Teachers are Greedy would clearly benefit from a tutoring center of any kind.


Posted by You discovered our secret!, a resident of Downtown
on Oct 12, 2011 at 8:28 pm

I'm a teacher and can't believe that you've discovered our secret. We purposely fail all of our students so that they are forced to hire tutoring services so we can make more money.

It couldn't be that class sizes are on the increase, standards are getting more difficult, we have less instruction time to teach new concepts, some teacher's would like to earn a little extra money to go towards a house/vacation. No that's too easy.

Guess I will have to announce at our monthly conspiracy meeting that you've figured us out. Darn. We will have to come up with a new idea.


Posted by Gotta chime in, a resident of Canyon Creek
on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:32 pm

Teachers are not underpaid. They are not overpaid but they are not underpaid either. Being paid (A LOT) to do the job after school that you should be doing during school is a bit suspect. I am surprised that the district allows this. Why can't they stop it? Employers in the private sector can tell their employees that they are not allowed to "moonlight" in certain areas that would be seen as conflicting with the day job.
I looked up this business after reading this thread and I can tell you that I lost a lot of respect for the "educators" who choose to work there.


Posted by Josh, a resident of Valencia
on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

" I can tell you that I lost a lot of respect "

I lost a lot of respect too. I can tell you that I would personally have no respect for anyone who would waste the time it takes to post something on this thread.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:44 pm

"some teacher's would like to earn a little extra money to go towards a house/vacation."

What if the student needs help with pluralization?

Mike


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 10:54 pm

"Some time ago, there was a thread in which posters complained about kids being pressured by their PE teachers to sign up for a private league with the implication that they wouldn't be able to play in the district league if they didn't."

So no actual facts, but you take everything that is posted on here as reality?

I have known people who do the tutoring and every cent they receive they donate back to the schools.

I just posted it on this forum, it must be a fact. Refute is you can find evidence to the contrary.


Posted by Amador Mom , a resident of California Reflections
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:00 pm

I do feel it is a conflict of interest and will not be paying for their services.


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:04 pm

Amador Mom - see free market at work. If you don't like it don't pay for it. If nobody pays for it, the company will go out of business and the problem will be solved.


Posted by Confused, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:32 pm

I looked up the business and I simply don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the concept. It seems to make sense to me -- the teachers know the curriculum and the kids benefit from that knowledge. Why are the people who are responsible for the education of our children maligned when they take on second jobs to help make ends meet?

Judging by the amusing variety of grammatical errors in many posts in this thread, several of the individuals commenting might want to spend less time on Town Square and more time on a few educational pursuits of their own...


Posted by Rational Radical, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

"several of the individuals commenting might want to spend less time on Town Square and more time on a few educational pursuits of their own..."

Yeah, yeh, yeh, I woudn't be caught dead being indoctrimated by the union thug teachers. There all socialist preachers, and today the chickens are home and roosting while our unwashed indoctrimated children are making a spectacal of themself on WAll Street.


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:44 pm

"There all socialist preachers, and today the chickens are home and roosting while our unwashed indoctrimated children are making a spectacal of themself on WAll Street."

Really? This was your followup post to the one that says there are a lot of errors in the posts on this thread. I hope your post is a joke.


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm

Confused - it is quite simple. There is a small group of people who believe that all teachers are overpaid, no matter what their salary. Which means they have no respect for any teacher. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However, they try to find anything any teacher does and twist it and use it for their argument that teachers should be strictly volunteer. It is what it is. Luckily, it is a relatively small voice; however, you will find them in every community across this country. It jsut turns out that in this modern age they have this outlet voice on the internet instead of dark corners in a local tavern huddle amongst themselves.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 13, 2011 at 12:06 am

Lazzboy,

There are also others who believe that teachers should not be moonlighting because of the potential for problems.

Mike




Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 12:18 am

nd Mike - there are people who believe that you should not be allowed access to beer, wine, carbohydrates, cooked food, restaurants, gasoline, automobiles, airplanes, computers for the same reason. Do you agree with all of them?


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 12:21 am

Mike - I do agree that there is a possible unethical situation, but from my understanding the tutoring center has addressed those issues. So, could you be specific on the problems that have not be addressed that you are so concerned about?


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 13, 2011 at 2:36 am

Lazzboy,

I feel it's fundamentally problematic when a teacher is in a position to recommend an organization they receive money from to students they teach.

While the teacher will not be tutoring his or her students, another teacher at the organization will be. This creates a situation which tempts teachers employed at the organization to more actively encourage students to seek tutoring.

Mike


Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill
on Oct 13, 2011 at 7:22 am

Hey, has anyone here actually bothered to contact PUSD and ask them what, if any, is the official policy of PUSD or the state of California concerning moonlighting by public school teachers? That would seem to be the logical starting point. It seems that there should be some official policy in place and, if not, I would be in favor of writing to our representatives urging them to force schools to put a policy about moonlighting in place.


Posted by Pleasanton HS Parent, a resident of Castlewood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 9:19 am

I attended back to school night at both schools have a kid at each and I tell you I was impressed with several teachers but very unimpressed as well. I am sure there are several parents out there that agree with me. You have math teachers who can't even add percentages right! Come on now, we have students who are normally bright and can handle anything but when the teachers don't even understand what they are supposed to teach where does that leave our students, I would try to help my child but to be honest i'm not the greatest in math either, but then again I don't get paid to teach what I don't know like others. Then you find out that the same teacher tutors other students at a different math level for extra money instead of educating herself to be able to teach what she is getting paid for.


Posted by School supporter, a resident of Beratlis Place
on Oct 13, 2011 at 10:28 am

I am a huge supporter of PUSD and the teachers. I do find this practice a bit troubling though. If they were not doing the EXACT same thing they are paid to do all day it would be less troubling, but they are. And it should not make a difference if it is their student or not. As employees of PUSD all the students are theirs.
I wonder if this was happening in another profession if we would be ok with this. For example if you owned a plumbing company and you discovered that one of your employees was operating a plumbing company on the side, and servicing the same clients, would you be ok with that? Even if there is nothing improper going on (and I do not believe that there is at all) the practice leaves an undesirable impression. I respect that teachers may want to supplement their income and I would prefer for them to do so in a non-conflicting way.


Posted by Worked for us, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 10:51 am

I am curious as to what kind of tutors people would want this company to hire? SAHM's with degrees usually are unavailable after school hours. Most people who would have the knowledge to tutor in these subjects have traditional 9-5 type jobs, which pay enough they don't want to tutor in evenings or weekends. It seems to me that teachers are the perfect tutors. The majority of the teachers I have met and worked with in PUSD over the last 16 years have been overly qualified and deserving the salaries PUSD gives them. They deserve much more respect that American society in general gives them. Yes, there are a few who should have better training and knowledge; and occasionally a teacher with seniority gets "stuck" teaching a subject in which they are not proficient. But I have found those the exception, not the rule. The tutoring place that uses the teachers uses PUSD textbooks and lesson plans, so the students aren't saddled with "more" work that doesn't fit where they are having the issue. If you have a problem with this program, go to the two other large tutoring programs in town that don't use teachers and don't use PUSD textbooks, or lesson plans. I see no conflict of interest. I see a need being met, when the school district has had to cut back teachers and increase the class sizes, while state and federal requirements have increased.


Posted by Let's flush this one, a resident of Valley Trails
on Oct 13, 2011 at 12:17 pm

"I wonder if this was happening in another profession if we would be ok with this. For example if you owned a plumbing company and you discovered that one of your employees was operating a plumbing company on the side, and servicing the same clients, would you be ok with that?"

I expect most reasonable readers would be able to recognize that the analogy is lame. Public education and private tutors are not competing for the same "clients." Public education has nothing to lose when kids get tutoring. In fact, it gains as the kids are provided help catching back up after, say, having missed a couple weeks of classes on account of illness. The tutor gains. The parents can find some satisfaction knowing their kids aren't being instructed by plumbers posing as tutors.

A genuine "school supporter" would easily recognize these things, as well as being able to see the contradiction in calling oneself a "school supporter" while actually not being one at all.


Posted by Interesing..., a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 2:47 pm

The fact that so many Pleasanton students require tutoring speaks a lot about the quality of the teachers in ptown.

My child made a not so good grade in one of her classes, the teacher said there is no way my child could even pass the AP test for that class... well, College board gave my child a 5, the highest score possible.... so much for the teacher's prediction. My child was one of the only kids in class that did not hire an outside tutor, and was the one that was penalized by the grade the teacher gave in class. Once the AP test was administered, and the teacher had no role in the grading (the college board gives the grades), my child got the highest score possible.

Interesting, ha? Especially since some of the A students in my child's class made 3s or 4s!


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 2:52 pm

The fact that so many Pleasanton students require tutoring speaks a lot about the quality of the teachers in ptown.

My child made a not so good grade in one of her classes, the teacher said there is no way my child could even pass the AP test for that class... well, College board gave my child a 5, the highest score possible.... so much for the teacher's prediction. My child was one of the only kids in class that did not hire an outside tutor, and was the one that was penalized by the grade the teacher gave in class. Once the AP test was administered, and the teacher had no role in the grading (the college board gives the grades), my child got the highest score possible.

Interesting, ha? Especially since some of the A students in my child's class made 3s or 4s! (ie, Ptown teacher gave them an A, and College Board gave them a 3 or a 4)

I am all for independent testing now, after seeing how biased teachers can be, and how scores for AP tests, SATs, etc are graded by independent entities who do not know a student and can only grade based on content, answers, rather than the often subjective/incorrect grading that some Ptown teachers do.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 13, 2011 at 3:41 pm

"My child made a not so good grade in one of her classes, the teacher said there is no way my child could even pass the AP test for that class... well, College board gave my child a 5, the highest score possible"

It is in this particular situation that I see the greatest potential for abuse. Imagine the teacher following up with, "You know, I'm actually more than a little concerned. Here. Let me give you this card. I think you should consider signing Lamar up for a little extra help."

Mike


Posted by Another flusher, a resident of Canyon Creek
on Oct 13, 2011 at 4:00 pm

So, um, Interesting, you say "My child made a not so good grade in one of her classes."

It's not that I don't necessarily believe you. But I'm not as gullible perhaps as other posters here who desire to hear what they want to hear and then jump to (pre-formed) conclusions. You neglect to tell us what class your daughter was in, the area of study, and whether the grade was for a complete term or one assignment. Also, how much time elapsed between said teacher allegedly saying what he/she did (I don't believe that by the way), and when your child took the standardized test? If your daughter is like mine, upon hearing such from her teacher, she'd work her fanny off to raise her performance level. In which case, we'd all have to compliment the teacher for being truthful with the student and inspiring her to do well. But clearly you don't want to go in THAT direction, do you?

Guess what I'm saying, Interesting, is that your story either isn't credible or, more probably, much of a story at all. (See 'whopper')


Posted by Keep flushing, a resident of Lemoine Ranch
on Oct 13, 2011 at 9:23 pm

"Public education has nothing to lose when kids get tutoring."

I would argue that public education has everything to lose when tutoring becomes the norm. You have to remember that not all families can afford to send their kids to tutoring and, as Mike keeps pointing out, if the remote possibility exists that there could be abuse these families will suffer most.

Our kids needs should be met at school. Period. I am not blaming teachers but having to pay for extra help should not be so prevalent.


Posted by Patriot, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2011 at 10:24 pm

"...Ptown teacher gave them an A, and College Board gave them a 3 or a 4)"

Gosh, back 30 years ago when I took my last AP class (calculus) I was proud to get a '4' on the test, and yes I had an 'A' in the class. This was at a fairly good private school. Have the AP tests gotten so easy that a '4' isn't a good score any more?


Posted by James, a resident of another community
on Oct 13, 2011 at 11:03 pm

Oh, I see. Suddenly we need to worry about tutoring becoming the _norm_ because, really and truly, there is likely to be so much abuse involved. Thanks for your concern, but I think you grumblers don't have much understanding about a lot of things related to contemporary education in the US.

For starters, if you're a parent and you want your kid to score well on the SAT or other 'objective' tests, you have probably caught on to the idea that the tests are 'rigged' -- by which I mean students who are taught to do well on the exam tend to do better than those who are not, and this irrespective of whether the student is a genius or not. Thankfully, most public school teachers (Michelle Rhee's boot-licking, cheating teachers to the contrary not withstanding) are educators devoted to providing students with a well-rounded education. If you go to the tutoring centers, you'll probably see as many if not more "A" students as "D" students.

If you are a caring parent as I am, who is generally impressed with Pleasanton's public school system, you might well do what I do, which is shell out a few bucks every month for my kid's bi-weekly
tutoring sessions. My daughter earns straight "A's" in her classes, but I want her prepping in the tutoring sessions to better ensure she does well on the standardized exams as well. Why? Because it's reality, that's why, and I'm happy the tutor is well-qualified to teach, as evidenced by her day job.

Further, to say that because some "slower" students may have to seek out tutoring it is the fault of the school system is absolute rubbish. The best school system in the world is likely to have students who perform at various levels of achievement; and some of them may well need tutoring.

Making an issue out of this seems nothing more than yet another transparent effort to inflict symbolic violence upon teachers. I think we understand. Yes, somewhere along the line you feel you were wronged by a teacher or two; and your life didn't turn out the way you might have liked; and hence your obsessive need to bash teachers. Others of you wanted to be an educator but didn't make the grade, failing to get tenure, and now you're chomping on the bit, lost in "part-time teacher land," anxious to degrade anything associated with education. Sad.


Posted by Marie, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 14, 2011 at 6:38 pm

The PUSD policy/reg 4113.2 addreses tutoring. Basically, as long as the student is not a current or former student, a PUSD teacher may provide tutoring services for a fee.


Posted by lazzboy, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 14, 2011 at 10:24 pm

There's a lot of posts about "so many Pleasanton students" needing tutoring or it becoming the "norm." What are the stats of the number of Pleasanton students in tutoring for a specific class (not SAT test prep classes)? I


Posted by Unbelievable!, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 15, 2011 at 10:15 am

Who do you want tutoring your kids???? Who is your ideal tutor???? A college student who has not yet finished their education and may or may not be familiar with the current curriculum? A retired teacher who also may not be familiar with the current curriculum? Some stay at home mom who has nothing better to do and wants to earn some shopping money? I mean really who makes the beat tutor? I would think a person would be overjoyed to find their child's tutor is a current teacher who is educated in the area and knows exactly what the student needs to know. There is no conspiracy here, sometimes students need some one on one help- that is not a reflection on the teacher but guess what not every student is going to excel in every subject and may need a little extra help. I seriously doubt people go in to teaching thinking 'Yessss I am going to make SO much money! And to make even more money I'm going to go half ass it so I can then charge desperate parents extra money! Bwahahaha!'. No. Teachers are special people that teach for the love of teaching. Are there some bad apples? Of course, but that's true with everything.


Posted by Happy Parent, a resident of Avignon
on Oct 15, 2011 at 10:34 am

Dear Unbelievable!

You should never underestimate the degree of hatred being espoused by those who feel the education system has failed them. (It's yet another variant of the victim mentality.) They look for any reason, no matter how far-fetched, in order to suggest that the teachers are being "greedy" or "unethical" (a real gut-buster, that), or that any student in need of tutoring stands as an indictment of the school sysstem. There's a serious "mentally warped factor" among all of them.


Posted by Been There, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 15, 2011 at 11:19 am

This is absolutely a conflict of interest. While these teachers may be earnest in their positions as tutors here in Pleasanton, that does not change the fact that this situation presents a serious ethical problem.

If teachers want to moonlight in another school district, there would be no conflict of interest in doing that. Otherwise, Pleasanton teachers need to be available after school for their students - and some of them are not. How do I know that? Because 2 of my kids had honors math teachers who left school every day at 3.

Unethical situations should not be tolerated just because the individuals involved are perceived as being good guys.


Posted by ethical indeed, a resident of Old Towne
on Oct 15, 2011 at 2:40 pm

Dear Sanctimonious "Been There"

What is it about 4113.2 that posters do not understand? Ah, I see, bias trumps facts.

The only ethical problem here is a contributor or two forming a quick, self-serving judgment that may very well be based on incomplete information. Some teachers get to school at 6:30 and leave at 3; others have coaching and club assignments after school, sometimes off campus; others have teacher-related duties on Saturdays.

Despite one's own failings, no excuse for tarring a profession every chance one gets. So doing counts as an immmoral act.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 15, 2011 at 3:58 pm

Happy Parent,

I feel it would be inaccurate to suggest that any objection to teachers moonlighting as tutors is necessarily based on hate. Any teacher who stands to benefit financially by suggesting a student seek tutoring has a conflict of interest, a temptation to suggest tutoring based on financial gain rather than student need.

I'd say hiring college students would solve the problem. As a matter of fact, I have kids in college who would be happy to tutor. Actually, I'd be willing to give any teacher who refers a student to my kids 35% of what the student pays per month, every month!

Mike


Posted by Tutor Mom, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 15, 2011 at 5:20 pm

It's simple. If you don't think a PUSD teacher should tutor a PUSD student, then don't hire them. In the meantime, I believe we live in a free country. As stated in a post, the board policy doesn't prohibit teachers from tutoring students other than their own.

If a parent seeks tutoring for their child, it doesn't mean a teacher isn't doing their job. When I grew up in the 60s, I had "tutoring" every night. Their names were Dad and Mom. Rarely did my parents send me back to school without helping me on my homework. I didn't return to school without my math homework completed correctly. At the time, I dreaded those sessions with Dad, but I know that if not for the extra help, math might have been difficult. I surely don't remember my father or mother commending my teachers because I needed help beyond the school day. I think my parents saw themselves as partners in my education. I also had homework every day, but still had time for sports, music, and fun....the difference was very little T.V., no video games, i-pads, internet......

It appears that some of the bloggers believe classroom teachers are completely responsible for a child's education. I would never leave my child's education solely in an educator's hands even the most gifted educator's hands. That teacher is teaching 24 other children with extreme needs educationally (remedial to gifted) and behaviorally. So, like my parents, I check my son's homework every night, and if he having trouble with a math concept, I reteach it. No big deal.....and I don't get upset at his teacher.

Many parents hire tutors as an alternative to working directly with their children. Friends let me they would rather hire someone else rather than "fight" with their children. Everyone handles children differently; that's a parental decision. To each his own......


Posted by Yet another flusher, a resident of Downtown
on Oct 15, 2011 at 5:53 pm

Mike from Highland has claimed elsewhere (truthfully? who knows? frankly, i do not think so) that he's a businessman who teaches a class part-time at a nearby college. Was he being truthful? If you follow his reasoning on these posts, it's highly likely that he is not being truthful. But let's assume that Highland Mike, who is so seriously concerned about the ethical 'abuses' built into teachers tutoring, is being truthful. (Which, again, requires quite an imaginative stretch.)

Well, if there's an ethical problem with teachers tutoring, there's a larger ethical problem with private sector businessmen teaching part-time classes at colleges and universities. There is much potential for self-alleged teacher to propagandize students such that they look favorably upon self-alleged teacher's occupation, business, or product. Businessman may even begin to sell his products in the classroom, or implicitly let students know that they will be rewarded if they buy businessman's products.


Posted by Happy Parent, a resident of Avignon
on Oct 15, 2011 at 6:55 pm

Mike states, "Any teacher who stands to benefit financially by suggesting a student seek tutoring has a conflict of interest"

I seriously doubt that, Mike. Maybe YOU PERSONALLY would have a conflict of interest; but you shouldn't impose your own limited moral sensibility upon others.

And what, in Mike's view, counts as 'conflict of interest'? He tells us: "a temptation to suggest tutoring based on financial gain rather than student need." Well, all of us face "temptations" all of the time, but they hardly count as a conflict of interest. When I drive my neighbor to her bi-weekly chemotherapy sessions, I'm sometimes tempted to ask her if I can pick flowers from her garden. I'd profit from such. But it hardly counts as a conflict of interest. No, Mike's reasoning seems to be warped on account of some kind of agenda he has against the teaching profession.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 15, 2011 at 11:37 pm

Yet Another Flusher,

"There is much potential for self-alleged teacher to propagandize students such that they look favorably upon self-alleged teacher's occupation, business, or product. Businessman may even begin to sell his products in the classroom, or implicitly let students know that they will be rewarded if they buy businessman's products."

Thanks for your belief in my ability to influence my students. I trust that influence accounts for their getting their HW in on time!

Actually, the school pays me to teach my product, which is my knowledge in a certain subject area. My students have reasonable access to me throughout the term if they have questions or require extra help, which they are not charged for.

Mike


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 16, 2011 at 12:02 am

Happy Parent,

The conflict is implicit in the potential to profit, which may inappropriately influence motivation.

Mike


Posted by Happy Parent, a resident of Avignon
on Oct 16, 2011 at 12:45 am

Now you're just repeating your unfounded assertion, Mike. But repeating it doesn't make it any less invalid. There is conflict implicit in all relationships which, potentially, can be turned to one's advantage. But you apparently only want to ascribe the "conflict" to teachers who tutor.

But you don't apply it to yourself, because of the bias that is blinding you. Yet Another Flusher's comments are valid enough ... which is to say that self-alleged part-time teachers like yourself -- using the classroom as potential to profit -- face no less of an ethical problem, namely, the "conflict implicit in the potential to profit."

And so on your own reasoning, Mike, if indeed you've told us the truth about you being a businessman and part-time college teacher, you should remove yourself from the classroom on ethical grounds. And the way you tend to apply reason in the service of your bias, frankly, I doubt anyone would complain.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 16, 2011 at 2:07 am

Happy Parent,

The definition of conflict of interest remains the same, and it certainly does describe teachers who receive money from the service they recommend to their students.


Mike


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 16, 2011 at 6:51 am

"Have the AP tests gotten so easy that a '4' isn't a good score any more?"

No, they are not easy tests. But there were students in that class who made As and got 3s or 4s on the AP test graded by the college board. We knew that such students did not deserve an A but were in good terms with the teacher, and their 3 on the test shows something, doesn't it? (especially when a pretend AP test was given and Ptown teacher made predictions as to who would do well on the AP test and what kind of score they could expect). I wish the AP scores were shared with the teacher!

My child made a 5 on the AP test, the highest score possible, but Ptown teacher gave my child a lesser grade, and predicted failure on the AP test.... It goes to show that once you have the subjective teacher removed, grades can be quite different. And like I said before, my child was one of the students in that class that did not go to outside tutoring.


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 16, 2011 at 7:04 am

Happy Parent,

Do you know about AB 165? That bill, expected to be signed by Brown, will enforce the "free public education for all" guarantee. Read about it:
Web Link

I wonder how outside of school required tutoring will be perceived after that bill is in place and parents can enter complaints based on it?

If outside tutoring is "required" in Ptown in order for a student to make a good grade, isn't that against what the bill is for? I mean, we have teachers posting that there is not enough time during the day to teach, that they have too many students, and that is why outside tutoring is needed. And then the same teachers already getting paid to teach, go to tutor in these places? Conflict, conflict, conflict! And perhaps a complaint based on AB 165? We will have to wait and see!


Posted by Happy Parent , a resident of Avignon
on Oct 16, 2011 at 10:30 am

Dear Interesting,

You've been asked to elaborate upon your story, but you've been reluctant to do so. Indeed, rather than clarifying the highly implausible story you told earlier, you've now expanded your claim to say the same thing happens to other students as well. I don't think you're telling the truth.

Dear Mike,

I've offered several reasons that point to the deficiency of your charge against teachers. Maybe too many? Cognitive overload? I don't know, but you seem capable only of repeating your assertion, based upon your own very private definition of conflict of interest. Moreover, you have been unwilling to acknowledge how the reasoning behind your charge against teachers would seem to dictate that you must forfeit your job. This represents a clear moral failing on your part.


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 16, 2011 at 12:45 pm

"Dear Interesting,

You've been asked to elaborate upon your story, but you've been reluctant to do so. Indeed, rather than clarifying the highly implausible story you told earlier, you've now expanded your claim to say the same thing happens to other students as well. I don't think you're telling the truth."

I am telling the truth, and I will not elaborate as doing so would reveal the identity of my child, do you think I want that? Trust me, I wish I could go in and talk to that teacher, show her/him the college board paperwork with my child's score of 5, have him/her look at the scores of his/her A students, but in the real world that would not be a good thing, since kids still have to finish high school and these teachers are protected by their union and can get away with a lot.

Your choice to believe or not. No difference to me, I am sure others reading these posts (even if they do not post) have been through similar experiences and can identify with what my child went through, and probably know the teacher I am talking about.

And what about AB 165 Happy Parent? I am sure you got the email from PUSD about it, don't you think that if outside tutoring is required to do well in school, there may be some complaint based on AB 165 once it becomes law?


Posted by Happy Parent, a resident of Avignon
on Oct 16, 2011 at 3:41 pm

Dear Interesting,

Your story becomes increasingly implausible with each re-telling. If your story is true (which it isn't), the teacher involved may well know the identity of your child. I doubt you could be so daft as to worry about exposing your child's identity, on the one hand, and then have exposed your child's identity, on the other. Further, your comment about you being too chickenhearted to actually have a rational sit-down with the teacher points the finger not at a bad teacher but at a bad parent. It seems you're about as unable to tell a credible story, as Highland Mike is unable to form a cogent argument. The two of you are a real pair!


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 16, 2011 at 4:01 pm

Happy Parent,

"based upon your own very private definition of conflict of interest"

Actually, it's the dictionary definition of the term rather than my own.

Mike


Posted by Ceece, a resident of Willow West
on Oct 16, 2011 at 6:18 pm

When my eldest was tutored it was one on one in a specific subject, not exactly the same thing her teacher, with a class of 30, was doing. Sometimes a different personality and teaching style is all that's needed to give a child a boost too. If you are uncomfortable having a PUSD teacher tutor your child I suggest you take them to Dublin or Livermore for help. Easy peasy.


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm

Ceece,

Tutoring is great: one-on-one instruction is a big help for youngsters who need it. I guess this might also be considered an advantage of home schooling, if, that is, the parent is qualified. I remember a neighbor sending her little angel to a retired teacher for help and being very happy with her baby's progress. Another great source of tutors is college students, who can always use a little extra money for beer and gas.

Mike


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 16, 2011 at 11:13 pm

Whatever, Happy Parent. I suppose in your world, when you do not agree, it is easier for you to say that everyone else lies and that you are always right. So, let's drop it as we can go back and forth and not get anywhere.

But what about AB 165? Any comments on that? Or perhaps you think I am lying or making that up too?


Posted by Happy Parent, a resident of Avignon
on Oct 17, 2011 at 6:48 am

AB 165 is as relevant as your fabricated story. See 4113.2.


Posted by Just the facts, a resident of Foothill High School
on Oct 18, 2011 at 6:34 pm

Interesting -
Where are you getting "tutoring is required"? You don't need to bring AB165 into this argument. This is about a for profit business that folks can choose to go to or not. Tutoring is not required to get good grades in Pleasanton - hard work, involved parents and, for the most part, good teachers. I have three kids in this district who all get very good grades. Not one of them has ever seen a tutor. Everyone take a chill pill. There is no way a few teachers tutoring for pay is any skin off your nose! Manage your own kids and your lives and quit poo-pooing everything people do!


Posted by Interesting, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 18, 2011 at 9:01 pm

Just the facts:

You may be right, but I do not think AB 165 is necessarily irrelevant. Post after post (not just this forum) talks about PUSD students using tutoring services, I see that with my children's classmates and some of their friends.

AB 165 was intended to stop the "Joe has an advantage academically over Susy because Joe has money" - it is true that in PUSD kids are either helped by their parents or outside tutoring services. Many times my youngest has required help to master concepts that were simply not covered in class. I do not use outside tutoring but I know others who do.

So, it may or may not be relevant, we will see how it all plays. The ACLU has strong opinions about this bill and are taking every complaint seriously.

Just like "Joe and Sue should both be able to participate in band regardless of ability to pay," a kid who does not have the ability to get tutoring outside of school just to keep up should not be at a disadvantage, academically speaking.

Realistically, in PUSD those kids who do not have educated parents who can help or money to pay tutors are at a disadvantage because not all PUSD teachers care to teach the relevant material DURING school hours.

This happens in other districts as well. Cupertino is known for the high rate of outside tutoring required just to keep up and master concepts that are supposed to be taught in class.


Posted by AB165 Vetoed, a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Oct 20, 2011 at 8:46 am

AB 165 is not relevant to this thread, but since it was brought up, I thought you might like to know that AB 165 was vetoed by the governor. For more info, here's a link: Web Link

Despite the veto, districts will likely continue to review their student fee practices to ensure compliance with the current law regarding the right to a free education.


Posted by Del Prado Resident, a resident of Del Prado
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:10 am

Amador Mom,

What tutoring company are you referring to?


Posted by All's Fair, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:13 am

Teachers today are faced with a cirriculum being pushed down, i.e. geometry in 8th grade, and larger class sizes. They only have so much time in a day to get the lessons across to those 25-33 students. Some may get it, some may need some additional one on one help. I think these tutoring places are fantastic. Even if they are filled with PUSD teachers, you are not assigned to a teacher you have in school. Maybe a different teacher has a different style that will help that individual student better and the extra individualized help is what that particular student needs.

So please don't go harping about teachers not teaching correctly in the classroom so they can earn extra dollars outside of the classroom. I know many men who work for construction companies who go out and do side jobs for more money.

If you don't like this then don't take your children to those tutoring facilities...end of story.

This teacher bashing, union bashing, city worker bashing is getting ridiculous. Why don't you all move to the mountains, maintain your own roads, parks, police/fire needs and teach your own children instead of whining about it. You all sound like you are jealous!


Posted by All's Fair, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:17 am

Oh yeah...I know Foothill (and probably Amador) has Peer tutoring services. Which are FREE.


Posted by Who Sais That, a resident of Stoneridge
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:19 am

This forum is once again a way for the left leaning side of our community to try to cram their ideals down the throats of others. There are really only two issues here, 1) who would you rather have tutor your child, a college educated crendentialed teacher or a kid that is a freshman in high school. The second point is that you don't have to hire the more qualified teacher as the tutor if you don't think they are the one for your child, you can opt for the less qualified person if that is who you feel is the best tutor for your child. It is called choice and you have the right to choose who you want so why dump on those that are trying to make a living by doing extra work? If you go to an attorney for advice he is not going to give you his expert advice for free, yet some think that our teachers are required to provide their knowledge for free on a on going basis.
Makes no sense.


Posted by Hot Air, a resident of Avila
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:57 am

How about we support the Band Review this weekend. Our High Schools are competing with something like 50 other High Schools in Pleasanton. There will be 5000 teenage kids on Main Street and performing at FHS this weekend. You want to see motivated talented kids go there. But hold on - now what the band teachers aren't allowed to perform in a band or tutor kids outside of the classroom. Grow up folks!


Posted by Owner of Tutoring Service, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 20, 2011 at 2:09 pm

I own a tutoring company in Pleasanton. While I do believe Pleasanton has great teachers, it is simply against the rules for me to hire teachers to tutor their own students. I think it's a significant conflict of interest. I know that Pleasanton teachers are wonderful and work very hard. BUT, it's important for teachers and educators to avoid the opportunity or even appearance of fraud.

That being said, I think if Pleasanton teachers want to get extra $$ as tutors, they should do tutoring in neighboring cities - not Pleasanton. This is a win-win for everyone!


Posted by Mike, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Oct 20, 2011 at 4:06 pm

The best way to "get extra $$" is to get a better job.

Mike


Posted by Peter Malloy, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 20, 2011 at 6:16 pm

"Mike"- You can't seriously believe in half the crap you post.

"The best way to "get extra $$" is to get a better job." That is the dumbest statement on this thread. You, my friend, are the kind of parent who wants the teachers of PUSD to prepare your kid to attend a University of California, but you want them to do it free of charge.

Telling teachers to get a better job means YOU get to prepare your kids for college and life, and that scares the hell out of me.


Posted by Kate, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 20, 2011 at 7:22 pm

I had the unfortunate experience of having my child's PE teacher deliver pizza to my home 3 days a week. II thought it was a conflict of interest that this teacher had insights into my poor eating habits and the fact that I could no longer make excuses for my children's weight issues on a "medical condition". How dare these teachers try to supplement their income just to live in the town they teach!!


Posted by how about this?, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 21, 2011 at 12:41 am

My Mom was a teacher, not here in CA and not now. But she did "extra help" every day after school, most teachers did. Anyone could come, sometimes nobody did. Sometimes she required students to if they weren't doing well. Nobody paid anything - rich, poor, anyone was welcome if they needed extra help. So the students who needed extra help got it.


Posted by Susan, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 22, 2011 at 10:09 pm

The judgement coming from those who think they know all is so disheartening here. I work with struggling students before school, at recess, at lunch, and after school daily. Not to mention during the school day. No one in this community sees this, yet it occurs all through the classrooms in my school. This is just part of the job, yet many like to claim this doesn't occur. Interesting so many criticize those who have to work and chose to work a second job to get by these days, especially with the sweeping generalizations.

Come to my classroom, volunteer, we can always use the help, yet we seem to see only the same volunteers year after year. We keep positive, encouraging, patient with those who struggle with learning.


Posted by How about this, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 23, 2011 at 4:54 pm

Susan, thanks for your message. My kids are younger, so we're not in the tutoring years that you hear so much about from other parents. So why do people pay for tutoring if teachers are there to help out after school etc? I'm not at all disputing what you are saying. It sounds like you are doing exactly what is needed for all students. I just don't remember anyone paying for tutoring when I grew up and it was a highly rated school district like here.


Posted by Kate, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 23, 2011 at 10:39 pm

How about this, when you grew up do you remember anyone paying for paid soccer coaches, private soccer and baseball training at $50/hour or spending thousand of dollars on competitive, year-round travel sports? Times change...


Posted by how about this, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:55 am

Kate, no I don't remember this and it scares me if that is the entry price to play school sports. I won't be spending that on my children - can't afford it, so I guess we'll be on the sidelines.

However, I do care about education and I'm happy to hear teachers like Susan are around for the kids after school. I'm just wondering why people pay for tutoring.


Posted by Change of Scenery, a resident of Birdland
on Oct 25, 2011 at 8:48 am

@How about this - You ask why people pay for tutoring. My child struggles in math (high school). She has not always struggled, actually it has usually came pretty easily. This year's geometry course has been quite the challenge. I firmly believe that it isn't 100% the teacher's fault nor my child's fault that she isn't understanding the lessons. She has hit a road block. While she likes her teacher and I am sure he teaches the subject quite well, I felt she needed the "extra" help through a tutor. For a change of teaching style...as well as for more one on one help...I decided to hire a tutor. It has been great. She is gaining confidence in the subject and doing better. Will she need the help next year? Maybe. But this generalization that everyone who is tutored is not receiving quality teaching is ridiculous. Not everyone can be at the top of the class. Some are better at certain subjects then others. That is what makes us human.

Also, I don't know when some of you were in high school, but I remember taking Geometry in my sophomore year (late 70s). Now it is something that 8th graders can take. More pressure, difficult concepts at an early age.


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