Town Square

Post a New Topic

Redux of President Obama's speech

Original post made by This time will be different, Another Pleasanton neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2011

- Ignore that all previous stimulus bills have not worked to dig us out of this recession (that supposedly ended two years ago)
- Ignore that federal budget expenditures have incresed 25% under my watch
- We made a serious commitment last month to lower our deficit, but let me spend another $450B to short-change social security, maintain inflated public, sector compensation and build a few bridges/road.
- I promise this won't raise the deficit, it is just that the necessary compensating cuts will have to come after my watch.

There you have it - true leadership in action.

Comments (18)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Sep 9, 2011 at 10:23 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

Where's Joe Wilson when you need him? YOU LIE!

White House aides suggested that new deficit spending in the near term to try to promote job creation would be paid for in the future - the "out years," in legislative jargon - but they did not specify what would be cut or what revenues they would use.

Essentially, the jobs plan is an IOU from a president and lawmakers who may not even be in office down the road when the bills come due. Today's Congress cannot bind a later one for future spending. A future Congress could simply reverse it.
Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just the facts
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 10:56 am

Interesting perspective from Mish on the speech:

Web Link

While I don't agree with all things on Mish's list, it is an interesting alternative:

Twelve Specific Recommendations



1.Banks and bondholders should take a hit. Banks are not going to lend anyway so bailing them out at the expense of taxpayers is both morally and economically stupid. End the bailouts, all of them, and prosecute fraud, the higher up the better.

2.Implement serious bank reform now, not 9 years from now. Banks should be banks, not hedge funds. This proposal will necessitate breaking up banks. So be it.

3.Scrap Davis-Bacon and all prevailing wage laws. Such laws drive up costs and have wreaked havoc on many cities and municipalities, now bankrupt or on the verge of bankruptcy.
4.Pass national right-to-work laws. Once again, we need to reduce costs on businesses and local governments to spur more hiring and reduce costs.
5.End collective bargaining rights of all public unions. The goal of unions is to provide the least service for the most money. The goal of government should be to provide the most services for the least money.

6.Scrap ethanol policy and end all tariffs.
7.Legalize hemp and tax it. Prison costs will go down, tax revenue will grow, and biofuel and fiber research will expand as hemp produces very soft fibers.
8.Corporate income tax rates should be lower in the US than abroad. Current policy encourages capital flight and jobs flight via lower tax rates on profits overseas than in the united states. This penalizes businesses that work only in the US, especially small businesses that do not have an army of lawyers and lobbyists.
9.Stop the wars and set a plan to bring home all US troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, and 140 or so other countries.The US can no longer afford to be the world's policeman.

10.Implement Paul Ryan's Medicare voucher proposal. It is the only way so far that anyone has proposed that puts much needed consumer "skin-in-the-game" that will reduce medical costs.

11.Legalize drug imports from Canada
12.End the Fed and fractional reserve lending. Both have led to boom-bust cycles of ever-increasing amplitude


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Concerned
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:13 am

I'll bet Obama sure wishes he had focused more on the ecomony three years ago rather than cramming through a healthcare bill that the majority did not want. It is a little late to be putting 100% of his effort behind creating jobs.

Worse yet, the health care law still doesn't deal with the underlying causing of out of control medical spending and the financial reform bill did not deal with the underlying causes of the crisis.

I laugh when I recollect a couple of years ago when the press was ready to label Obama as one of the greatest Presidents of all time. At this point, he may not survive past his first term.

This is what happens when you are driven my political dogma rather than the reality of the current situation.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by just teabag fatigue
a resident of Downtown
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:16 am

Mish demonstrates that he does not know the meaning of a lie. He willfully calls Obama's proposals to be lies, and Mish then lies about them. The man Mish clearly has garbage between his ears.

"Just the facts" eats up the garbage. Then he doubles down by forwarding 12 proposals from tea bagger la-la land. Calls his own proposals facts. They are not. More garbage: Mish garbage in, JTF garbage out.

What else is new? The two garbage men should actually attempt to analyze the Pres' proposals. But they don't care to, because that would entail accepting the reasonableness and practicality of most of them.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just the facts
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:32 am

Even David Brooks of the NYT calls into question elements of Obama's proposals:

Web Link

It seems Keynesians have only one answer when spending hasn't worked - spend more.

No one ever stops to consider whether/not that spending will actually be an investment that will improve our competitiveness and future returns. e.g., what is better for our long-term economy - continued overpaid public sector workers or incentives for companies to start and grow enterprises in the US?

And when in the heck aren't we drastically reducing military spending and redirecting that money to more more productive investments?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Eggless Chef
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:58 am

More garbage in garbage out from Just the facts. He can't even read a simple opinion piece without getting it wrong. Anyone care for a dish of you-know-whose scrambled eggs?

"Even David Brooks" .... Even DB? Even? What a dunce.

Here's the conservative wing's most rational commentator in the piece Mr. Scrambled Eggs presents:

Brooks: "Personally, my bottom line is this: I think the president has earned a second date. He's put together a moderate set of stimulus ideas. His plan may not be enough to jolt prosperity, but it might maintain its current slow growth."

It's unfortunate these sites don't have a minimal intelligence bar that a poster must meet before posting.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Arroyo
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:02 pm

We elected a man who knows nothing about business or how to generate jobs outside the public sector or government entitlements. And, he has surrounded himself in his Cabinet with individuals who also lack business sense.

The man is in way over his head...!! He's a great orator, but it's not enough.

BTW, save the barbs -- it's just my opinion..!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Another opinion
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:10 pm

Bernanke ... Geitner ... Summers ... they know nothing, have no experience, and lack business sense. Yes, I am high. So what?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:17 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

This is what we get from the White House this morning, a link to a website, americanjobsact.com, Web Link and that has a link to "Download the Full Plan", which is a PDF containing the line:
"The President will release a detailed deficit reduction plan in the coming days that will pay for every penny of the American Jobs Act and include additional deficit reduction"

The "full plan" leaves out one major item, how to pay for all of these sky high promises!

and the anonymous troll is calling commenters here stupid!?!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Poster
a resident of Bonde Ranch
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm

No, this poster is calling you a liar, Jimbob, a charge you seem to earn with almost every single one of your postings. (I'll leave the charge of stupid for others to level at you.)

You submit the following as a statement of fact: 'The "full plan" leaves out one major item, how to pay for all of these sky high promises!'

But it is not a fact; for in fact you haven't a clue since the deficit reduction plan hasn't been released yet. As per usual, you're tripping all over your multiple lies.

Do you even know how to tell the truth?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just the facts
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:27 pm

Eggless - why don't you quote much of the rest of the oped where brooks calls into question the efficacy of many of the proposals?

Brooks come to his conclusion because he has no other ideas and a Keynesian will always resort to more spendind even when he knows ahead of time that it likely won't work - as Brooks acknowledges.

No one want to face the reality that we must go through this downturn to make up for all the previous excesses and mal-investments. The only choice is whether we want to come out the other side with more or less debt.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just the facts
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:31 pm

If I head a dollar for everytime a politican promised savings in the "out years" - meaning not on my watch - I'd be a very rich person - especially if I got those dollars in the form of gold.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Eggless Chef
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:34 pm

Jtf/Jimbob,

Why don't you try telling the truth? Well, don't bother. You've already established yourself as a chronic liar.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just the facts
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:45 pm

Eggless - Nice job lumping me with Jim. I'm curious to hear when I've lied.

I guess when you run out of ways to defend an indensible position, one resorts to name calling, race baiting, and other discriminatory tactics.

If it could be proven that the Keynesian approach (more spending as the answer) I would be the first to switch my perspective. But I have taken a long look at this and I can't find the evidence. In fact I find the exact opposite with today being case and point. Europe is in deep ... because they are out of money and no one wants to loan to them unless the get very high rates of return to compensate for the risk.

You can only spend other peoples' money for so long.

Rather than disparage me, why don't you try to educate me with evidence and win me over?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Sep 9, 2011 at 12:46 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

definition of full

full
adj. full·er, full·est
1. Containing all that is normal or possible: a full pail.
2. Complete in every particular: a full account.

#2 is the applicable definition, therefore a full plan would include how the plan is to be paid for. The President stated last night that it is, in fact, completely paid for, and today a document is released described as the "full plan" which repeats the same promises and benefits, but leaves out the way that it will be paid for.

We can take some contextual information provided by the President and the White House, here is a quote from the speech: "The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next ten years. It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas. Tonight, I'm asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act. And a week from Monday, I'll be releasing a more ambitious deficit plan " a plan that will not only cover the cost of this jobs bill, but stabilize our debt in the long run."

That is saying that part of the plan is to pay for these promises with another plan, and in addition ask someone else to come up with how it will be paid for in future years. Promises now to be paid for in future years? Sounds like deficits to me.

The anonymous trolls can continue to call names, but the voters will see the truth for the 2012 election, it is still ABO 2012, Anybody but Obama


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Seamus
a resident of Dublin
on Sep 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm

Does anyone know what Jimfol is talking about? He seems a bit off topic. Wrong thread?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by A Neighbor
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2011 at 3:29 pm

Jim is just giving us our daily dose of democrat-hating cynicism. Same old. The semantic argument here over "full" is just his way of baiting anyone who persists in saying the glass is half full.

Take the weekend off everyone and offer your remembrances for those lost on 9/11 and the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Blossom
a resident of Stoneridge Orchards
on Sep 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm

Jimbob is nobody's fool, and let's not forget that 9/11 happened on Clinton's watch. And thank god Bush had the guts to take us into Iraq to get rid of the WMDs that were used against us in NYC and at Pentagon.


Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.

Email:


Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: *

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

Vote YES on Measures 45, 46, & 47, NO on 48
By Roz Rogoff | 30 comments | 1,966 views

Endorsement thoughts
By Tim Hunt | 2 comments | 1,302 views

Prop 47: not perfect, just preferable.
By Tom Cushing | 2 comments | 609 views