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The Coming Fall of the Teachers Unions...

Original post made by NoToUnions, Amador Estates, on Jun 21, 2011

I found this article to be a very good read. Enough so that I'll purchase the book ...

"Special Interest: Teachers Unions and American Public Schools," by Terry M. Moe (Brookings Institution Press, 2011), 513 pp., $34.95

For the sake of saving California (and many other states), let's hope that the teachers unions do fall. Their goal is to empower and enrich themselves at the expense of taxpayers and students. While there are good teachers in the public schools, the teachers unions main goal is NOT to improve the educational level of students.

Here is the article >>> Web Link

Comments (23)

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Posted by Night Owl
a resident of Birdland
on Jun 21, 2011 at 10:10 pm

[Portion removed] Read this highly objective account, published by Harvard University -- no,check that, Brookings Institute Press, the haven for right-wing crappola that no credible publisher will touch with a 20-foot pole.

Decimating teacher unions is the battle of our lifetimes. We must smash them again and again before they gobble up all that is near and dear to us with their middle-class salaries.

[Portion removed because it addressed other commenters in a disrespectful manner and didn't further the conversation.]

For now, Pleasanton is doing its job. Let's continue waging a crusade against PUSD of 6-8+ years ago, find little or nothing that is incriminating, and use to rationalize a campaign against the so-called trustworthiness of PUSD. This ad and the witchhunt currently in progress has been paid for by Pleasanton's taxpaying citizenry -- aka suckers in the extreme.


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Posted by Anne
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:06 am

I don't think there are any witches working for PUSD, but they did illegally create significant extra debt for the public and then magically make the money disappear without explanation. Does that qualify as witchcraft? More likely the cheap parlor tricks of a charlatan.


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Posted by a reader
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:17 am

[Post removed because it referred to a portion of another comment that was removed.]

Editor's Note: We appreciate being alerted to posts that are disrespectful or in some way violate the terms of use. We are immediately notified when the "objectionable comment" link is hit and if we feel removal is necessary, do that as soon as possible.


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Posted by steve
a resident of Parkside
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:48 am

[Post removed because it referred to another commenter and did not further the conversation]


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:10 pm

Although the union is fair game in saving budget dollars, the core issue still remains the UPPER MANAGEMENT / Administrators of the school district. There is an inherent ethos within education that career advancement means front office admin / gov't work (that is "no work") / perks and power. In business the management org chart was flattened over 25 years ago. Not in education or in many public sectors jobs. Work within the budget. It's as simple at that ... and in this case start cutting from the TOP ... in fact, start with they people at the top and work down. I bet it won't take long until all the required funds are available for the real job of education.


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Posted by Not just the teachers' union
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:16 pm

It is not just teachers' unions that are the problem. Unions in general are a big financial burden on the taxpayers, and that has to stop. Look at what is happening in Greece: they are finally broke and now that everything is in the red, they are being forced to cancel pensions - and it comes at a cost of employment, services, etc. Had the issues been addressed earlier, we would have a healthier Greece.

Same goes for California and the US: address the big issues early to avoid complete financial disaster. That means cutting pensions asap, reforming social security, deal with unreasonable union benefits, etc.

In our own district, just look at Casey: retired with a fat pension at an age not considered old for today's standards. We the taxpayers are now supporting him for life, and with life expectancy being greater than ever....do the math. Reform should mean those already retired but with unreasonable deals get their goodies taken away.


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:06 pm

There's a myth in the public sector: We just want parity with the private sector. What they don't say is this: that to get good pay in the private sector you have to win the game. That's not easy. More people lose in the private sector than win. In the public sector they let everyone win, no losers. (Just like 10 & under soccer - everyone gets a trophy). It's the big leagues and they should play like the big leagues.


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Posted by Morris
a resident of Del Prado
on Jun 22, 2011 at 4:48 pm

More right-wing garbage brought to by the Pleasanton Tea Party! Have fun destroying public education!


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 6:21 pm

@ Morris: "More right-wing garbage brought to by the Pleasanton Tea Party! Have fun destroying public education!"

Interesting, since I am not either a member of the Tea Party, or do I spew right-wing garbage. My thoughts are purely business-oriented and NOT political. Imagine yourself in a business run like the educational system. Do you honestly think it would survive more than a week? Let me give you a small hint: NO WAY!

That doesn't make my views right-wing. It does make them OBJECTIVE and FINANCIAL SOUND. Something that the educational system through-out our country has had a tough time wrapping its arms around. To save education look at the underlying system as following the rules of economic physics: profitability, balanced budgets, high production values, less name calling (yes calling me a right-wring garbage thinker is name calling). Contemplate your navel and see if what I am saying doesn't make sense. Like I said in another post. Start cutting from the top until you get a balanced budget. You won't have far to go till you hit pay dirt.


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Posted by Morris
a resident of Del Prado
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:19 pm

Educated (in right-wing propaganda),

I love how you claim you're not a right-winger, yet your solutions to the ills of public education are almost completely consistent with classic Tea Party rhetoric: Destroy unions, punish teachers, run education like business, and begin a race to the bottom. Believe it or not public education is NOT A BUSINESS, and should not be treated as such. The education of our children should not be treated like a profit driven company producing Salad Shooters for sale Walmart. BTW, are you familiar with the middle-class? Just remember those "evil unions" created it.


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Posted by Wait a minute
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:35 pm

"BTW, are you familiar with the middle-class? Just remember those "evil unions" created it."

And now they are exploiting it.

"Believe it or not public education is NOT A BUSINESS"

Does that exempt the educational system from accountability, both academically and financially?


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Posted by parent
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:06 pm

To Morris: I believe we've already won the race to the bottom . . . It would be nice to try to get better.


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Posted by just saying
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:10 pm

Morris argues with the same old label-identity politics that most likely frames the way info is processed and conclusions drawn.

If you care at all about education you should at the very least expect a return on the educational dollar or you run the risk of tax payers seeing schools as a weak investment. Education and Schools ARE a business, like it not. Billions of dollars go into contracts, supplies, material, buildings, maintenance, operation etc.

And if you think the Business model for Education is just "right wing" "tea party thinking check out what John Podesta, Center of American Progress (liberal) has to say about it as recently as Jan of this yr.


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:03 pm

@Morris: "M* argues with the same old label-identity politics that most likely frames the way info is processed and conclusions drawn."

Brilliant statement! Absolutely brilliant!

You know the more I think about it, maybe by shifting our thinking away from black/white - left/right - red/blue ... hummmmm ... we might actually get ourselves out of some of these messes we're in.


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:26 pm

@ MORRIS: "... public education is NOT A BUSINESS".

Let me get this off my chest and then I'll let the matter rest. Embedded in Morris' statement is the pretense that business is by definition bad, that capitalism is by nature greedy, self-serving and without merit.

The foundation is without merit. Think about it. We don't walk out of Safeway upset at our freshly made deli sandwich, the $5 Special, the fresh fruit on sale 10/$10 flown in from all parts of the globe. In fact we enjoy our tasty treats, and know that our family will be well fed. We bounce over to Fiesta Taco for some burritos (ummmmm!), then over to the hardware store for a few items. I mean that's a good trip. AND IT'S ALL BUSINESS. A good business should produce good products. It should be innovative in its delivery of high value so we come back for more. As soon as it stops doing that ... well, we stop going back and that pretty much spells the end of any business that doesn't make me smile when I give them my hard earned dollar. Now remember I said "should" not "always". In general the reason America's Business Is Business, and incidentally being adopted all over the world, is because it works (overall and most of the time).

If education were treated more like a business, and the end product being the excellent education of our children, then we'd be happy putting our money into the game. It would just make sense.

Okay. I've bloviated way too much.


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Posted by concerned parent
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:24 am

To "Educated",

You said "If education were treated more like a business, and the end product being the excellent education of our children..."

I don't know if you know anything about Pleasanton, but we do have excellent schools. That's why many parents move here. If certain people continue to discredit and de-fund the schools, then we really will have a problem here. It is the "No on parcel tax" people who have done the greatest damage to an excellent school district. They are the problem.


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Posted by steve
a resident of Parkside
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:38 am

educated---I'm afraid there's no debating with folks like morris, since he cares not for education, teachers, etc. Claiming to support them only furthers his goal of ever-increasing funding for his union buddies and him.
concerned parent---your goals may be different from morris and may be admirable, but in the end, throwing more and more money into any system without accountability is a recipe for failure on everyone's part. If you're saying we can't teach kids without unions running things (part of he premise of this topic) then you're in the same sinking ship as morris.


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Posted by Educated
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:51 am

Steve - you're absolutely right. You point is well taken, and I'm happy to hear your sensibility on the subject.

concerned parent - it seems that if someone doesn't agree with throwing money at the problem somehow they're Tea Party members, unaware or out-to-lunch. I am very aware of Pleasanton education. All three of my children went through the system and went on to graduate with honors in college. One with multiple degrees in math, computer engineering, electrical engineering and physics. The other graduate with economics, philosophy and math degrees. The third is working in business, pre-law and accounting. Yes, I know how the system works and we worked very hard within it during our tenure. So, because I don't believe in throwing tax dollars down the drain and see another alternative to solve the problem doesn't make me an idiot. In fact, think about what I am saying: Treat the school system like a value-based economic system that produces high quality end-products (excellent education) and cut from the top down (management/administration does not lead to good education)and you will find that I am not (1) dumb (2) unaware (3) a political lunatic


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Posted by Real middle-class
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 1, 2011 at 11:00 am

Morris, you have been brainwashed in classic UNION rhetoric...all speak the script with one voice. UNIONS elect and control our politicians and brainwash, manipulate, control, and threaten our teachers and workers with scare tactics and false rhetoric. And NO, unions did not create our middle-class. In the 20s & 30s foreign socialists infiltrated and created an anti-capitalist underground and shut down/broke many companies.
At the end of WWII, in 1945, new technology was applied in the market place. Americans had personal pride, eager to make babies and were eager to catch-up on life. A huge DEMAND was created for houses and cars. DEMAND DRIVES production & capitalism, people were eager to work, buy, and appreciate the little things in life. They were proud Americans, creating and providing for their new families. The socialist unions again tried to build up and exploit the workers like they tried to do before the war...back to their dirty propaganda, but the middle-class had already created themsleves. So the rich and greedy union leaders got the brainstorm to infiltrate and indoctrinate public workers....a captive, huge and growing public sector that would never 'shut down or go broke' like the business' they had destroyed earlier. Well....surprise. unions outsmarted themselves and are now destroying the great American middle-class, preying on the workers they control by manipulating. They are doing what no foreign enemy could....break the American middle-class.


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Posted by Real middle-class
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 1, 2011 at 11:30 am

Morris, I forgot to add, I am not involved with tea party.
They don't know how to beat Democrats. They run against incumbent Republicans, then have the gall to expect to sit with the Republican caucus. Some tea partier elements drive away independents, then loose elections. Tea partiers don't seen to understand the basic mathematics of elections...(it's not the loudest) it's the ones with the MOST VOTES are sworn into office !
If they can't get it all, they'd rather have Democrats in office, and just stand on the outside looking in.
Please, just because I fight union lies, never assume I'm tea party...I know the team with the most votes wins.


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Posted by Tea Party Schmea Party
a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Jul 1, 2011 at 12:18 pm

It doesn't matter whether you belong to the tea party or not. It's a matter of getting the principals straight. Like unions and elitist education. I think all public school teaching jobs should be open to the lowest bidder. After all, isn't this a capitalist system? The unions prevent school districts from hiring the most fiscally prudent candidates. I don't know diddly about math, but I could learn it in ten minutes and teach it to your kids ---- and I'd do it at half the salary these preema donna's get. Lets make our school districts accountable to us the taxpayers who know more about education than some Harvard or Scotland yard elitiest union thugs.


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Posted by Making Sense
a resident of Charter Oaks
on Jul 2, 2011 at 7:28 am

Let's see. Brown allows the tax hike on the rich to expire because the Repubs won't allow it to come up for a vote. That means an added 150 million cut to cal state system added to the 500 million already slashed from the budget. What happens then? They make the STUDENTS pay 23% more for tuition and fees. Why don't they get rid of the high-priced professors who are never in the classroom? Why must students be forced to finance tax cuts for the rich? Shouldn't greedy teachers be forced to help out the rich as well? What is going on in this country of ours? And all the politicians grandstanding in D.C. about my corporate jet. Have we lost all sense of proportion? This is about freedom to own whatever you want to without the union-backed govt sticking its nose into my business.


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Posted by Leland
a resident of Happy Valley
on Jul 2, 2011 at 7:39 am

@Making Sense,

I know exactly what your talking about Making Sense. No to teachers unions, YES to tax-free corporate jets. If I'm made to pay taxes on my four planes I just might have to lay off a pilot or two. Taxing corporate jets is a real job killer.

Take it out of the union teachers' hides. They don't need it anyway. Unions are corrupt and they strong-arm our politicians into talking about taxing our (The People's) corporate jets. What do you think our Founding Fathers would have to say about this? How are the people going to vacation to other parts of the world when they don't have ready access to their corporate jets? No wonder why places like Greece are experiencing strain. Their tourist industry is about to go down the drain because of a downturn in corporate jet traffic. We can't afford to sustain this kind of socialist engineering.


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