Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 17, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Have you ever traveled in China, Tibet, Indonesia, Malaysia and northern India? Other than hotels, event centers and restaurants that focus on serving ugly Americans, those entire countries use squats and trenchers. Face it, we are a minority on this planet, in more ways than this.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 17, 2010 at 8:18 pm
And how you equate American "Democrats", "progressives, and "cultural sensitivity" to an article published in a British tabloid about a deep-in-the-suburb shopping mall in central England is nothing short of miraculous.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 17, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Jane...in case you hadn't noticed, all this "multi-cultural" emphasis is squarely in the domain of the left. Now the West (the UK is still considered West...tho going downhill fast due to their "uber tolerance" in immigration) may soon be seeing these squat toilets...just another data point of where the culture is being dragged.
Don't get me wrong, I (and most conservatives) are in favor of "multi-ethnicities" in this country...(as long as they're legal)...but there should only be ONE CULTURE that is promoted and followed legally in the US. That is the AMERICAN culture. Currently there are many different people of different cultural backgrounds entering this country who have NO INTEREST in assimilating into this culture. This is WRONG and it is severely damaging our country.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 17, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Well, Ptown conservatives, let's hear from you. I am not referring to your choice in restroom fixtures, but, rather, is Teri right?
Are her racist, isolationist remarks also your views? Do conservatives believe there is one, strictly American culture? She seems to think so, and unless you say otherwise, Ptown will be left with the impression that she, and she alone, speaks for you.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 7:52 am
Dear M (and others who are critical of my views):
You say "just wow...: Well then you also must disagree with the prominent author at the Hoover Institute , Victor Davis Hanson who wrote the book "Mexifornia" Web Link
You also must disagree with the former Governor of Colorado (a Democrat surprisingly) Richard Lamm...who delivered a stunner of a speech on the perils of multiculturalism. His speech was entitled "How to Destroy America."
I wlll provide a link to it, as well as copy his speech below...for those who care not to click on the link. The sobering reality is that all of Governor Lamm's points are being carried out now.
Gov. Lamm's speech: How To Destroy America: A Frightening Analysis >>> Web Link
Editor's note: In 2004, Richard D. Lamm, former governor of Colorado, addressed a conference sponsored by the Federation for American Immigration Reform in Washington. The following remarks are reprinted with his permission.
Richard. D. Lamm
I have a secret plan to destroy America. If you believe, as many do, that America is too smug, too white bread, too self-satisfied, too rich, let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. History shows that nations are more fragile than their citizens think. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and they all fall, and that "an autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide." Here is my plan:
We must first make America a bilingual-bicultural country. History shows, in my opinion, that no nation can survive the tension, conflict and antagonism of two competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. One scholar, Seymour Martin Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon – all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with its Basques, Bretons and Corsicans."
I would then invent "multiculturalism" and encourage immigrants to maintain their own culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal: that there are no cultural differences that are important. I would declare it an article of faith that the black and Hispanic dropout rate is only due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out-of-bounds.
We can make the United States a "Hispanic Quebec" without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently, "The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved, not by tolerance, but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically, and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together." I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with a salad bowl metaphor. It is important to insure that we have various cultural sub-groups living in America reinforcing their differences, rather than Americans emphasizing their similarities.
Having done all this, I would make our fastest-growing demographic group the least educated – I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50 percent dropout rate from school.
I would then get the big foundations and big business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of victimology. I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was all the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population.
I would establish dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would "celebrate diversity." "Diversity" is a wonderfully seductive word. It stresses differences rather than commonalities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other – that is, when they are not killing each other. A "diverse," peaceful or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together, and we can take advantage of this myopia.
Look at the ancient Greeks. Dorf's "World History" tells us: "The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic Games in honor of Zeus, and all Greeks venerated the shrine of Apollo at Delphi. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet, all of these bonds together were not strong enough to overcome two factors ... (local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions ...)" If we can put the emphasis on the "pluribus," instead of the "unum," we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo.
Then I would place all these subjects off-limits – make it taboo to talk about. I would find a word similar to "heretic" in the 16th century – that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like "racist", "xenophobe" halt argument and conversation. Having made America a bilingual-bicultural country, having established multiculturalism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of "victimology," I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra – "because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good." I would make every individual immigrant sympatric and ignore the cumulative impact.
Lastly, I would censor Victor Davis Hanson's book "Mexifornia" – this book is dangerous; it exposes my plan to destroy America. So please, please – if you feel that America deserves to be destroyed – please, please – don't buy this book! This guy is on to my plan.
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." – Noam Chomsky, American linguist and U.S. media and foreign policy critic.
Author Brigitte Gabriel (a survivor of Islamic terror in her native Southern Lebanon) BTW: If you don't know the history of Southern Lebanon, it was once known as the "Paris" of the middle east...a once predominantly Christian country that was "uber tolerant" and liberal as they allowed a steady stream of Muslim immigrants into its borders. The Muslims propogated much faster than the native Lebanese, Hezbollah developed and now largely controls this country. Bye bye Lebanese western culture, freedom, Christianity. Brigitte Gabriel (now an American citizen) is sounding a WARNING at the top of her lungs to Americans that this is its fate unless it stops its uber tolerance.
Posted by Chris, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 10:11 am
Regarding your comments... "Are her racist, isolationist remarks also your views? "
Looks like Governor Richard Lamm is speaking directly about you ... when he states...
"Then I would place all these subjects off-limits – make it taboo to talk about. I would find a word similar to "heretic" in the 16th century – that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like "racist", "xenophobe" halt argument and conversation. "
...so according to Governor Lamm, people like you with your comments are aiding in the destruction of America.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 10:33 am
It only halts conversation when you cannot respond, Chris. As for Teri's "uber" sensitivity to other cultures as inherently dangerous, I remain unconvinced, and chalk it up to irrational fears.
I reject Teri's initial the premise that there is one American culture and that non-assimilation is a goal for new immigrants. Positions like hers only contribute to building walls and further resentments in communities.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 1:10 pm
I understand wholeheartedly that my comments will not convince you to change your entire views of the 'wonders' of multi-culturalism in America (vs. enforcing and reinforcing adherence to American culture).
If any changes of mindset occurs in you, this will have to happen of your own volition and realization. Tho I submit that to do so, it requires a different 'diet' of information, authors, and further historical research.
Back to your being 'unconvinced' that multi-culturalism is harmful to our American society...then I assume you will have absolutely no problem when other cultures' legal systems are used as the basis for court decisions in this country as well. For example, you should have no problem with Sharia Law being enforced for people of this culture...correct? Honor killings, stonings, etc. should be just fine with you...correct?
Here is an article about Sharia Law that...if your views are consistent with accepting multi-culturalism...that you should have no problem with. I would encourage you to read the 10 major points about Sharia Law ...
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 1:38 pm
In addition to those "Top Ten" items about Sharia Law in my link provided above...how about other cultures like Uganda, for example.
Would you have any problem allowing Ugandan culture multiply and be enforced in the United States? If so, you'd have to allow Ugandan customs and laws here as well. Did you know that Ugandan culture allows for the sacrificing of children?
I look forward to hearing how you defend the practice of multi-culturalism in America (vs. allowing mult-ethicities with adherence to just one culture's set of laws...the America's). BTW: I presume you know that Sharia Law is being followed in the UK. Sharia banking law is now being followed in America.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Teri -- There is no argument that Americans do not want to live inside the sharia system, particularly women. But why do you feel that there is even a threat that you may be required to? Who or what is making you so fearful that this is somehow about to become reality? There is no credible evidence of any such plot underfoot, which is why I described your concerns as irrational.
The Pew Research Center estimates that there are 2.5 million Muslims in the US. The Council on American-Islamic Relations puts that number at 6 million. Splitting the difference, let's say there are 4.25 million Muslims in the US right now. That is less than 1.4% of the population. How can you possibly see that as a viable threat?
As for sharia banking laws "now being followed in America" and the UK, that is a gross exaggeration. As with all investment opportunities, you may pick and choice where to put your money. There are a few international mutual funds being offered that own shares in other funds which do business with sharia lenders. If you disagree with that philosophy, change your fund allocations. It is that simple.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 3:13 pm
The issue which you severely criticized me on was regarding whether we in America should allow multi-culturalism (and by extention, other cultures' laws) to exist in America...vs. multi-ethnicities (if the people are here legally) but adhering to one culture...the American culture with it set of laws.
Beyond your saying my point is irrational (is 2020 too far in advance for you...see article below), what is your opinion on the above.
Here is an article related to the above for you to ruminate on.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 3:18 pm
PS...Sorry for my lengthy copying of the above article. (I didn't know the formatting of this page would result in the above). I've provided enough reading material and will stop my discussion on this topic.
Thank you for engaging me in this important discussion, however. I do hope you'll pick up a copy of the books I referenced above. Regards...
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Good question. I almost forgot the main subject.
However, these squat toilets are just one more example where the West is bowing to accommodate another culture vs. the reverse.
Let me ask you "Mr/Mrs. Question"... let's say you were visiting another country and you decided you liked it enough that you wanted to live there permanently. You then go to their politicians to say that you want to change their laws to accommodate your culture, lifestyle, and religion. If I were that politician, I'd tell them hell no.
Posted by M., a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jul 18, 2010 at 11:40 pm M. is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
I think I understand what you are trying to get at. The idea that being over accommodating to the cultural characteristics of a person's historical land of origin causes so much emphasis to be placed upon their/our differences that people are not able to easily or in some cases successfully assimilate into life in the US. Thus somewhere down the line our society becomes so fractured that it leaves our society open to remolding, potentially by groups with less than friendly goals.
Assuming that this is what you were talking about here are the issues I have with the scenarios presented in this post thus far.
Let's look at history; there have been multiple periods when a particular group emigrated to the US en mass. In each of these periods there was repetitively wide spread fear that the group in question was going to be the downfall of the US, be the Irish, Italian, Chinese etc.. There was a good deal of violence directed toward the new groups over a relatively extended period of time in each case. The new people formed solidarity groups moved into the same areas creating neighborhoods of just one group such as China Town (not the tourist trap it has become, but historically speaking).
The 20 point plan you provided by Dr. Anis Shorrosh from 2003 is an OPED effectively, in that he is a religious teacher/writer, not an intelligence annalist or in any related field. While he is entitled to his opinions, and free to publish them, and people are free to read them, agree, disagree whatever, just keep in mind they are just that, ideas and opinions without and sourcing or legitimate qualifications.
The vary basic format of these types of scenarios paints a picture allowing only two possible outcomes, one essentially being massive destructive changes resulting in a kind of cultural Dystopia in which all that we as a nation have strived to create over the past two centuries is replaced with our worst collective nightmare. The other possibility being a purification of sorts of the society, ending in a somewhat Utopian western society without any of the perceived pitfalls of the current society. In other words the scenario paints an extremely black and white picture of extremes. Things are rarely so cut and dry, nor do things happen in such dramatic or organized ways. Especially in so far as grand secret plans to through subtle means dismantle entire societies, it is simply too hard to keep secrets like that, let alone have enough people involved without leaking the information all over the place.
Now, to address Multi-racial single culture society concept, the most vocal supporters of this idea tend to miss one major point in my observations. This is the Melting Pot which we refer to our national social construct as. Indeed a melting pot contains a vast array of ingredients, however many fail to understand a melting pot is not functional if that pot only removes traits of those entering the system. All who enter the pot also add their traits to that of the existing inhabitants of said pot. It is a two way system. So to reject all that is foreign in order to create a stronger or consolidated cultural base is a flawed plan, as is to have new members not assimilate into the culture of their new home. The strength lies in adapting the best traits of each new member or group into the overall social construct cultural norm in order to form a stronger overall construct. This is why purging (my word) people of their cultural identities is a flawed model, just as is the non assimilation model is
I do not agree with your views on the matter at hand. However we as a society do in fact focus far more on what makes us different as opposed to what makes us similar. We do exacerbate tensions by constantly talking about racial difference religious differences and generally immediately pointing out each others differences as a matter of description or qualification or even ground for moral disassociation or disqualification. No good can or will come from this level of discourse.
In closing I will say only this. The human mind is a wondrous thing. The mind has a great capacity for pattern recognition; unfortunately the mind is also easily tricked into seeing patterns and connections that do not exist.
Posted by Curious, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 5:35 am
@ M - Bravo, well said. I will further reflect on your post when I walk out my front door and gaze on my Japanese inspired landscaping, get into my Japanese designed car, drive down my street around the British inspired roundabout, over the bridge with Italian Rennaisance inspired flouishes, past the houses with Greek marble columns out front, to my favorite Irish Pub where I can enjoy a pint of not only Irish beer but also a nice Belgium Ale or German Pilsner if I so wish.
Posted by Teri, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 7:06 am
Try to explain your scenario to Brigitte Gabriel, who is sounding the clarion call to America. Explain to her why we should not be proactive in fighting the ever increasing Islamization of America. Her once open, prosperous, civilized Western, Christian country of Southern Lebanon was in many ways like America. But their liberalism and "tolerance" has essentially destroyed them. That country is now largely controlled by Hezbollah.
Also explain yourself to France and the UK. I think many there would say your unconcerned and apathetic attitude will bury your Country.
I remain ever convinced that multi-culturalism is killing this country. (BTW: your 'blessed' multiculturalism sure didn't help all those military people who were murdered at Ft. Hood, did it. That our future with attitudes like yours.
I'll now let you go join your buddies as you sing "We Are the World"
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 9:45 am
M -- That was one of the most respectful, eloquent and well thought out posts that I have ever read on this forum. Truly.
I would like to add one small note on the topic. Teri used an especially narrow definition of multiculturalism, far more narrow than most academics and politicos for a reason. It allowed her to frame the debate to her best advantage, and it worked well up to a point. The point where her position failed, for me, was the direct implication that she "(and most conservatives)" knew what was best for all others.
My belief all along has been that no one is in a position to judge the culture of another. You may have an opinion regarding another's world view, as does Brigette Gabriel and Anis Shorrosh, but to judge them based on your own experience and seek to impose on another's culture is always going to fail.
I am off to practice the chorus of "We Are the World". Have a good day.
Posted by M., a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 6:29 pm M. is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Thank you for the kind words, I am glad you enjoyed my wall of text.
I believe I responded to you as per your request in a perfectly respectful manner. While I do disagree with your position I do not see the need for insults. Nor do I see the need for you to tell myself or others who they need to explain themselves to, nor to be characterized as unconcerned, apathetic and generally set on destroying our nation. I disagree with you position as do others, yet that does not make myself or anyone else less of a citizen than yourself. I can see that you are unwilling to have a dialogue on the issues, but would apparently rather engage in attempts to inform people what their beliefs and opinions are and should be. This is most unfortunate, as I was looking forward to a lively discussion on the topic of multi-culturalism. I however am not willing to further subject myself to pre-scripted arguments designed to allow yourself opportunities to insult the intelligence, and character of those who reply.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 7:56 pm Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Teri's post above is a perfect example of the true mechanism by which America will be destroyed. In the Federalist Papers, one of the arguments for adopting the Constitution was that a Union ensures the security of liberty. It illustrates, for example, how the States could come to war with each other over expanding into territory to the West. The authors argue that the States have common interests and that a Union can protect those interests.
Teri hates America. Teri is an anti-Federalist who would go to war against others rather than protect common interests. United we stand, divided we fall.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jul 19, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Wow. All I can say here is that I am flabbergasted. How did Teri go from the civilogue of "I look forward to your reply..." and "Thank you for engaging me..." to "...you f-ing leftists..." and "You are my enemy."? Wow.
Posted by Teri 2, a resident of another community, on Jul 19, 2010 at 9:37 pm
There is even talk of bringing the "metric system" to our country! This will be another step in destroying America! Our enemies will try to confuse us with speed limit signs in "kilometers per hour". Bathroom scales will be in "kilograms" and not pounds. It is true. They will be messing with God's true American measurement system. If you don't believe me, just look at what is happening in Canada. This is good vs. evil and you have to take sides and be counted before it is too late!
Posted by Obama, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jul 20, 2010 at 12:33 pm
We all bet this is a red letter day in your book with unemployment benefits being extended once again you and your husband can continue to live off of others while at the same time you can sit on the computer without either of you working and attack those which are supporting you and your family..............my hats off to you!!!
Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin, on Jul 21, 2010 at 9:53 am Janna is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Typical con behavior as usual, thinking that people are living high on the hog while on unemployment. You do know that we all paid into UI right? I know you'd just love to see people die off as a result of all this. Your dear free market is apparently working just as you want it to. You have no problem with a deficit for war and killing, but helping people is just wrong in your world obviously.
My husband finally found a job, but other people are still in dire straights. I haven't stopped caring about others who are struggling. Your disdain for the poor and unemployed is duly noted. I know, your one of those cons that think it can never happen to them. Well, karma may bite you in the ass. I hope you're ready for it.