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20 Ways Obamacare Will Take Away our Freedoms...

Original post made by Bill, Another Pleasanton neighborhood, on Mar 22, 2010

Ok, Pleasanton Weekly, I read where you have written glowing article about "wonderful" McNerney for voting 'yes' on Obamacare. It is media like the PW at the local level, along with mainstream media at the national level that play a big role in the destruction of American capitalism and freedom with such glowing articles which do not scratch the surface of the issues.

Here is an article that lists 20 Ways Obamacare takes away our freedoms. Hey, Pleasanton Weekly...how about writing about these too??? Web Link

Tags: Health Care - ObamaCare - Freedom
With House Democrats poised to pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.

Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin's adage, "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.

1. You are young and don't want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the "privilege." (Section 1501)

2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You'll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That's because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person's health status. (Section 2701).

3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

4. Think you'd like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn't cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that's what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn't allow your employers' slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).

6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.
You're a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You're a woman who can't have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You're a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).

7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a "Bronze plan," which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))

8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you'd like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can't do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

11. If you are a physician and you don't want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It's not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients' care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))

12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a "Medicare provider agreement" by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn't have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))

13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can't (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).

14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed "unreasonable" by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).
The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).

That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).

20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

Comments (35)

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Posted by anti-stupid brigade
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2010 at 11:38 pm

Man, this is a stupid explosion of epic proportions.
"If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough." Seriously? You're going to criticize healthcare reform cuz it has the audacity to limit CEO compensation. Hilarious! Please run on that one!!! Those poor CEOs getting their deferred compensation limited to 500k...how will they make it???

"You are young and don't want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the 'privilege.'" You are young and despite being well within an income range to receive an almost 100% subsidy to purchase your own low-cost health insurance, you choose not to because you prefer to be a burden on the rest of society, so in exchange you have to pay $750 to avoid the burden of taking advantage of free healthcare. They shouldn't call this the mandate fine, they should call it a fine for being a complete moron. You're starting a business and despite the tax credits available to you to purchase insurance, not counting the individual subsidies you receive, you think you're saving money by not doing so even though the costs are almost nill. You soon go out of business because you have no common sense and are a complete moron.
"You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn't allow your employers' slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough." Even though people younger than 26 are actually a boon to the health insurance market because compared to other age groups, they seldom go to the doctor, receive care, etc, and even though they're no additional burden to the overall healthcosts we experience, we want to be cheap jerks anyway and treat our employees like crap, cuz that's just the way we roll...

"Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that's what the customer wants." I went to mcdonalds and asked them for a cheeseburger without any cheese, and don't you know it they gave me the cheese anyway. Can you believe that? I wanted a cheeseburger with no cheese...the customer should get what they want! They didn't even offer me a discount!

"You're a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You're a woman who can't have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You're a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.)" You want to buy a car with only 2 wheels and a 2 cylinder engine? Tough. They only make cars with 4 wheels and a variety of engines with only 4 cylinders or higher. Deal with it...so much for personal freedom.


"Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a "Bronze plan," which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough" I went to mcdonalds and asked them if i could have half of a cheeseburger, they said the most i could cut off was 60%...what up with that? That evil government!!! (Honestly, who would want a plan like this. stupid.)

"If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money?" So you're now saying that the employer-provided model for healthcare is just too darn burdensome and employers of 100 employees or more should be allowed to just not do it...great, fine...let's provide an alternative then, like, say, oh, I don't know...a single payer system! That would relieve all companies of the burden of providing coverage for their employees...GREAT IDEA!!! Or maybe, if a company is going to be so crass as to dump their employees into the private health insurance market and ask them to come up with the 16k/yr in healthcare costs, those companies should pay into the system that will subsidize those employees. In other words, if you're going to shirk your responsibilities to your employees, be ready to pay for it. But that would make WAY too much sense...

"The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough." Considering a lot of the innovations in this field are the direct result of government-financed research, then yeah, i'm really worried about the affect this will have on R&D. jeez...

"You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you'd like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough" In other words, you're a cheap employer who wants to essentially leave your employees without any meaningful coverage, but a nice little catastrophic token healthcare plan so you can look at yourself in the mirror at night and tell yourself you're providing for your employees while they're out at night working second jobs to cover their copays and drug costs. In other words, you're preparing yourself an nice little spot in hell...

"You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough." In other words, you want the choice of saving a few bucks by buying a car without a way of filling the gas tank...sure you can drive it home from the lot, but don't go any further than that cuz once that gas runs out you're pretty much toast. But you saved a few bucks...nice going. Wouldn't it be nice if the government would let car dealers do that. It's so unfair that the government forces car companies to sell cars with refillable gas tanks.

"Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough." Um, stupid, that's how we ended up in this mess in the first place. Hilarious!!!

"You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough." Hey, top 2% of wage earners...he's talking to you! You know you're out there. We've seen and heard about you on TV...don't hide. You know, the 6 million out of 300 million people who actually earn 250k+...we're coming for your extra 0.5% per dollar...BOOO!

"If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure." OMFG RUN FOR THE HILLS. I just don't think my wife's breasts are worth an extra 5%...this will kill the cosmetic surgery industry...within 3 years, most of hollywood's leading ladies will look like zsa zsa gabor...i mean, how should would've looked without plastic surgery...if you could imagine that...oh screw it, they'll all look like john mccain...

Jeez, do you people even sit down and consider the level of stupid you surround yourself with. Do you even read the crap you post or do you just scan the title and copy/paste without bothering to look.

Please, for the love of god, make this post the republican party plank for this november's elections...the democrats will end up with a 100 seat majority instead of 75...


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 12:01 am

Stacey is a registered user.

"you'd like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families"

Wow. Just wow.

"You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage" so you can go bankrupt when you lose coverage when you needed it the most.


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom for Truth
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 6:40 am

Hmmm, are the kids slackers, or in Grad school? Because I remember when I was in college and at 21 lost coverage thru my parents ( I aged out) and (being uncharacteristically responsible for a lazy liberal) I had to pay for my own insurance, which was way more than I could afford while paying for school and made things even more difficult financially. I still did it, but it was an exceedingly arbitrary cutoff date, made frankly irrelevant now with the need for a degree in this economy.
I think that little topic posted may be top ten worst pieces if RW propaganda BS yet. Didn't you learn that didn't work? Y'all need to come up with another strategy, seriously.


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:15 am

Like I had said on another thread, a different set of core beliefs. No regard for the economic freedom and liberty that his great country was built on. It is as simple as that for the three of you. I don't have to waste time responding to the individual points, because some will never understand why this is important.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:33 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Who cares about a set of beliefs being different? Everybody gets old, everybody gets sick.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:34 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Everybody gets old, everybody gets sick: _thats_ why this is important!


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Posted by Rae
a resident of Mohr Park
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:34 am

Food for thought . . .
Here's some core beliefs about a government's responsibility to it's society from someone conservatives just love to quote - that old founding father Thomas Jefferson.

"A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society." Thomas Jefferson to George Hammond, 1792

"The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government." Thomas Jefferson to Maryland Republicans, 1809

"The first object of human association [is] the full improvement of their condition." Thomas Jefferson: Declaration and Protest of Virginia, 1825

"Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818

"A government regulating itself by what is wise and just for the many, uninfluenced by the local and selfish views of the few who direct their affairs, has not been seen, perhaps, on earth. Or if it existed for a moment at the birth of ours, it would not be easy to fix the term of its continuance. Still, I believe it does exist here in a greater degree than anywhere else; and for its growth and continuance... I offer sincere prayers." Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816





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Posted by Pleasanton Mom for Truth
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:53 am

Well said, Rae!
Hey Bill, don't forget how the bill takes away the freedom of children to be excluded from coverage for pre-existing conditions, the freedom of seniors to fall through the Medicare prescription drug donut hole, the freedom of consumers to know what is in their food through new labeling requirements, the freedom of people to be subject to annual and lifetime coverage caps, the freedom to be dropped by your individual insurance plan when you get sick, and all sorts of other "freedoms" we're going to lose...


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Posted by Rae
a resident of Mohr Park
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:04 am

PM for Truth,
Funny thing tho' . . . if Thomas Jefferson were to say those same words, or the quotes I put together on another thread about the constitution, at a Tea Party Nation gathering, or a Republican town hall, he'd be accused of being a socialist/marxist/nazi/communist/statist who is a traitor out to destroy this country. Someone "evil" who obviously isn't a "true American patriot" . . .


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Trish
a resident of Canyon Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:18 am

Ahhh, thanks folks. you are restoring my faith in humanity.

Bill, come on. You and P Mom are one in the same - yes?


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:23 am

Thomas Jefferson is turning in his grave - you don't know a thing about what Jefferson believed if you think those quotes are about health care, or that Jefferson wouldn't appreciate the Tea Partiers efforts or be welcomed by them. See I can play these games too.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. - Thomas Jefferson

On every question of construction [of the Constitution] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or intended against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed. - Thomas Jefferson

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. - Thomas Jefferson

That says that all are CREATED equal, all are not guaranteed an equal outcome. All are endowed by their Creator, not endowed by government with anything, contrary to what Tom Harkin wants you to think. Notice the last three words, PURSUIT of Happiness, not the right to happiness.

Jefferson is turning in his grave. Who cares about a set of beliefs being different? Jefferson cared. That is why he and the founders created this country.


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:37 am

Stacey,

Buying insurance policies with high deductibles of $2,000 or $4,000 is the smart thing to do. Anyone in the insurance business knows this is smart and they do it themselves.

I always pick the higest deductible I can get because it means lower premiums. Paying hundreds in higher premiums every month, so that you get a $79 doctor visit paid doesn't make sense. You can save hundreds and hundreds for years perhaps before you might have to pay $79 out of pocket - up to your dedutible amount. Even if you had to pay that full deductible all at once, the hospital would set up a payment plan.

And yes, buying policies with annual or lifetime caps makes good sense. Without such limits, you are going to pay WAY more in premiums every month.


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom for Truth
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:40 am

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as more discoveries are made, new truths discovered, and manners and opinions change. With the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilied society to remain ever under the regemine of their barbarous ancestors."
Thomas Jefferson


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:43 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Pleasanton Mom,

Apparently you lack a good understanding of insurance and getting adequate coverage because you think it is all about shopping around for the lowest premiums. If you haven't properly covered the risk of your losses, you'll end up bankrupt too.


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom for Truth
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:44 am

(typo) "...REGIMEN of their barbarous ancestors."


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:44 am

Stacey is a registered user.

It's like purchasing a home insurance policy that doesn't cover the value of your home because you're trying to save money on premiums. When it burns down you won't be able to rebuild.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:46 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Unless, of course, you just happen to have stashed away in investments (not retirement!) the entire cost to replace your home! Do you? Can you afford an organ transplant, months long hospital stay for a head injury?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:48 am

Stacey is a registered user.

These health insurance plans with lifetime caps or annual limits do NOT provide adequate coverage in the event of catastrophic failure. People who are forced into these plans are UNDER insured and just throwing their money away.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:50 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Bottom line: everybody gets old, everybody gets sick. We're all at risk for the same thing; doesn't matter if you're young, old, leftwinger, rightwinger, religious, irreligious, rich, poor, healthy, pre-existing condition.


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:52 am

Here is a stupid explosion:
-- Start off advocating for wage controls and making purchase of insurance mandatory
criticize healthcare reform cuz it has the audacity to limit CEO compensation.
You are young and don't want health insurance? you have to pay $750.
-- Then throw in a few red herrings just to distract from arguments in favor of socialism
we want to be cheap jerks anyway and treat our employees like crap,
I went to mcdonalds and asked them for a cheeseburger without any cheese,
You want to buy a car with only 2 wheels and a 2 cylinder engine?
I went to mcdonalds and asked them if i could have half of a cheeseburger
you want the choice of saving a few bucks by buying a car without a way of filling the gas tank
-- Here are the telling comments
Deal with it...so much for personal freedom.
...let's provide an alternative then, like, say, oh, I don't know...a single payer system!
a lot of the innovations in this field are the direct result of government-financed research
(completely FALSE, but cannot be refuted because it is vague, quantify "a lot" and I will take that argument down in a hot second)
you're cheap, you're preparing yourself an nice little spot in hell...
-- And round it off with a little more cheerleading for higher taxes
the 6 million out of 300 million people who actually earn 250k+...we're coming for your extra 0.5% per dollar...BOOO!
"If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure." OMFG

-- To sum it up, personal freedoms, liberty, higher taxes matter not a bit. If I don't have any good arguments, I will make comments about mcdonalds cheeseburgers. We have the majority, so we will raise taxes and move the country towards a social democracy, and if you don't like it make this the republican party plank for the November elections, thanks we will


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Posted by anti-stupid brigade
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:56 am

Jim, you started off your post with "Here is a stupid explosion" and went downhill from there...at least you got something right about your post...that was a pretty weak rebuttal to my post. you're getting soft.


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Posted by Rae
a resident of Mohr Park
on Mar 23, 2010 at 10:21 am

Obviously, the Jefferson quotes I provided are about more than just health care - as I said they're about Jefferson's thoughts on a government's responsibility to its society. Although, in light of HCR, they certainly seem appropriate. There also isn't a doubt in my mind that you of the Tea Party Nation faithful, the self-titled "true American patriots" would shout him down, just as you're trying to do in this thread.

The bottom line is that in order to take advantage of those "unalienable Rights" and chase after "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness", not to mention be gainfully employed, you've got to be healthy.

As long as the private insurance cartel is allowed to run free, unfettered by regulation and competition, they will continue to jack their rates, dump policy holders when they get too sick, and refuse to insure pre-existing conditions. We will have only seen the tip of the iceberg with our current 30+ million uninsured that have to go through the emergency room to access health care, driving health care costs even higher than they are now, and certainly higher than they would be without HCR.

But then, as you said above, I'm undoubtedly "waste[ing] time responding . . . because some will never understand why this is important".


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Posted by Joe
a resident of Downtown
on Mar 23, 2010 at 11:08 am

"ObamaCare" has just been digested and by the time it gets through the colon it won't look anything like the bill that was just signed. By 2014 the Democrats will be gone and there will be so many challenges and court appeals and congressional ammendments that nobody will recognise the term "ObamaCare", but rather "nightmarecare". Real reform would not have to squeek through the Congress, especially with one party so firmly in control. Back room deals, bullying, and payoffs...I don't think so


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Mar 23, 2010 at 11:39 am

And Rae, like a-sb, offer no rebuttals, just more distortions and diversions. Which of your points would you like me to take down first?

I didn't say "I'm undoubtedly "waste[ing] time responding . . . because some will never understand why this is important", and I wasn't referring to what you are referring to in my actual statement.

Why did you feel it necessary to not only edit my statement but to also twist the meaning of it?

- Insurance is heavily regulated
- both sides of the aisle proposed widening competition to decrease costs
- Even though it is a distortion, the President says he has taken care of the "they will continue to jack their rates, dump policy holders when they get too sick, and refuse to insure pre-existing conditions."
- ObamaCare has no guarantee, according to the CBO on down, to bend the cost curve down, unless it is Pelosi quoting a report from the CAP, which has been taken apart in a separate thread.

And just to note, that a-sb has no rebuttal whatsoever except to say I am weak and soft, when I took his rant apart point by point. But that is all he is good at, insulting people without offering anything constructive whatsoever.


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Posted by Tickled
a resident of Jensen Tract
on Mar 23, 2010 at 4:43 pm

Hahahaha! It kills me that you people who, no doubt, lived in fear of the government under the "Bush Regime" now think the government is going to save us. Congress, with a 17% approval rating, has just saved us from out-of-control health care costs and will make sure that those who have been denied coverage or couldn't afford expensive policies will now be covered. What a bunch of putzes. I have a bridge for sale if any of you are interested.


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom
a resident of Birdland
on Mar 23, 2010 at 5:17 pm

Joe,

That is an excellent point. REAL REFORM would not have needed the:

Arm twisting
Bribes
Threats that their re-election campaigns wouldn't be financed
Back room deals
Behind Closed Doors meetings excluding Republicans
Pelosi caling all the female representatives to her office (??)
Obama calling the Blue Dogs into his office
Lies and Deception (if you like your insurance, you can keep it)
Giving Double-counted numbers to the CBO
Parliamentary tricks

The only "bi partisonship" was in the OPPOSITION to the bill.




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Posted by Janna
a resident of Dublin
on Mar 23, 2010 at 6:41 pm

Janna is a registered user.

Tickled,

You are incorrect. I did not live in fear of the last administration. I admit PNAC (You may recognize some of the members: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr., Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, etc.) instituting their agenda so they could attack Iraq didn't leave me warm and fuzzy. The government wasn't the problem, it was the neo-cons that were running it. They weren't interested in me, except for trying to scare me with the tactic of terrorism, they were more interested in their buddies they needed to help get richer with no bid contracts and other war associated give-aways.

Tickled, stop projecting. You are the one who is afraid of government right now because your party has no power.


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Posted by Janna
a resident of Dublin
on Mar 23, 2010 at 6:56 pm

Janna is a registered user.

PM,

The repubs rendered themselves irrelevant by obstructing every step of the way and then not voting for the bill.

Funny how you had no objection to the way Bush ran things for 8 years. Oh, that's right, you admitted never paid attention to politics when Bush was president.

All the so-called "tactics" you claim were used by the left, have been used by right as well. Bush went even further. Remember when we found out that AT&T was allowing the Bush Admin. to spy on all of us illegally? Well, they were spying on congresspeople as well so they could strong-arm, threaten, etc. to get their way. This is business as usual for your guys and now you're all shocked, I say, just shocked. Two words: Patriot Act. You should do some research and find out how that was passed and how many people read it before voting yes. How's that for underhanded?

Let me know when something really shocking happens. What's good for goose....It's about time the dems started showing some leadership and leaving the party of "No" behind. I can't believe the whining about bi-partisanship after the dems bent over backwards to try to accommodate them. Wah! Wah!


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Posted by Pleasanton Mom for Truth
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 7:03 pm

Janna - thank you!! You have beautifully articulated what I could not.
Fired up and ready to go!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Insurance
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 8:12 pm

Some people don't really understand the concept of insurance protection. Basically, the many pay for the claims of the few (or the fewer, shall we say). For instance, we pay thru our Homeowners' for the fires, hurricanes etc. of others (and, by the way, homeowners throughout the nation should be paying for our earthquake risk but that's another story...) On the health care front, my parents were healthy until their deaths and they paid into a system all their lives that supported chronically ill people... but they could have become chronically ill or been in an awful accident themselves! - it's a crap shoot and we just don't know what life has in store for us so that's why we by insurance protection. The problem is that the insurance industry has been taken over by a bunch of hucksters over the past 30 years who want to maximize their own personal wealth and they have changed the insurance concept so much that it's killing all of us. And it has finally imploded on them. They brought this on themselves.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:01 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

The 80/20 rule... And the cost to each individual member is lowered as the risk is spread across a larger pool, i.e., economy of scale. Americans in the past used to form voluntary mutual benefit or aid societies until the function they served mostly got taken over by insurance companies and other organizations.

Young people may not want health care insurance, but everyone gets old and will need it.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Bill
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2010 at 10:28 pm

Janna...
You started to say "what's good for the goose..."

Don't you realize that Obama and the Dems are killing the goose (i.e. that lays the golden egg). That golden egg helps pay for your welfare and every other government program. When there is no more golden goose, then we have no more free country. That time is rapidly approaching. Obama is killing America...and on purpose.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Janna
a resident of Dublin
on Mar 24, 2010 at 8:50 am

Janna is a registered user.

Christ! Another repub with reading comprehension problems. I am not on welfare. How hard is that for you to understand? No matter how many times you say it, it won't be true.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Janna
a resident of Dublin
on Mar 24, 2010 at 8:51 am

Janna is a registered user.

Thanks PMFT!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Tickled
a resident of Jensen Tract
on Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 pm

Oh Janna, certainly you realize I didn't mean you literally lived in fear under Bush. But I'm quite confident you acted much the way you criticize the anti-HCR crowd today. Go ahead, you can admit it.

My party's no longer in power? No, got that one wrong. I'm quite independent and disgusted with both major parties. So I stand by my statement that an alarming numaber of you are putzes for believing our "representatives", and the beauracrats dictating what we can and can't do, are somehow going to improve our lives. Your statement "because your party has no power" is proof that you've been duped...you truly think those idiots are concerned about you? They are concerned with gaining and keeping power. You're their tool.


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