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Original post made
on Mar 22, 2010
Very nice. but how much will a young person age 27 be forced to pay each month???
I wish to thank Congressman McNerney from the bottom of my heart for supporting this legislation.
For all of us who have a pre-existing condition, or who are self-employed, or work for employers who do not offer coverage, or who have young adult children, or who have been dropped by insurers as soon as we become ill, this bill is a godsend.
Although it is not perfect, and there are many who will take issue with various provisions, failures, and requirements of the bill, it makes for a good start. Thank you for your courageous vote.
As an Englishman with relatives in Pleasanton I assiduously follow this web-site, checking-in a couple of times a day to keep abreast of local events.
I've been following this story on the BBC and only now have become aware of more detail of the legislation as identified above.
I was truly amazed when I read that insurance companies can deny cover to children with pre existing conditions, and that old folk have to pay for medicines. Is that really the American way?
There may be a bit of a furore at the moment, as there always is when any revolutionary change is made, but I fail to see how anyone could be in favour of the two points above.
Good luck to Obama and his colleagues.
There is no such thing as free anything. We will be paying for this forever. The government cannot even run the post office how are they going to run health care. Everyone hang on here comes higher taxes!!!!
There you go Jerry...being the good liberal soldier in Nancy's army. You can fool most of the folks, but not the ones who work hard to provide for their families and really get it.
Folks, nothing is for free. This will add a $3B unfunded mandate to a California aleady sinking into financial abyss. Small business owners will see a RISE in their premiums and send people to the governement roles just like the libs want and have fooled you into doing, also new high taxes on the people this state needs to create new jobs...this legislation is a death sentence to CA and I am not being dramatic, just pragmatic. Baby's aborted at the tax payers expense, Nancy and Jerry best dream come true. CA is close to being bankrupt and the people we sent to Washington to represent us keep selling us out to further their own political agenda of hating the wealthy and lying to their constituents. There is only one thing that can save us. Vote the mind numbed robots like McNerney out of office with people that really care about your children and grand children. Pathetic performance Jerry, just pathetic.
Yes, you will all be able to go to the emergency room at the first sniffle. But at what cost? I know what cost...jobs!
I we can all be healthy...and hungry. Free health care for the price of food on your tables, money to pay the rent, for giving up any hope of an improvement in the California job situation.
As a small business owner with 11 employees, why would I continue to subsidize my employees insurance. With all the new regulations on the insurance companies, premiums are sure to go up and I can't afford, or just don't have to pay any more, the fine will be cheaper and I'll gladly pay it. I am going to kick my employees to the governement plan, just like Obama knows I will do. And then they can fight the red tape and governement DMVer's for who will know what's best for them.
But not my family, now way. I will continue to pay for GOOD private insurance to make sure my family is PROPERLY covered.
I totally understand your situation, that was Obama's plan - to force you to drop insurance for your employees.
But be aware that you won't have that good insurance for your family for very much longer. It's Obama's plan all along to drive that company out of business. You will be forced onto the government-run low quality death trap with the rest of us.
"Health insurers -- once private companies -- are now organs of the federal government. Every citizen is a ward of the state, which can now compel you to have insurance, punish you if you don't; determine if your insurance is acceptable, punish you if it isn't. Thousands of new federal bureaucrats will soon spill from the D.C. Beltway and flood the country, scrutinizing our finances to verify compliance with this new law.
A government that grants itself this kind of power over us can conceivably do anything to us. For our own good, of course.
Such a country is in no meaningful sense "free."
And this is only the beginning. Liberals are salivating in contemplation of all the fanciful window trimmings that can in the future be hung from this legislative framework. Public option will soon appear as prelude to single payer, as was the intent all along. Soon, Americans won't even have the illusion of a choice -- the government will move from subsidizer to provider, and it will be the only game in town."
This is a National Disgrace.
By the way, France called, they want their Statue of Liberty back.
Congressman McNerney will take plenty of heat for this but I'm impressed that he looked at all the facts and voted his conscience.
Pleasanton mom: "excerpt" from WHAT????? A random posting on the net? Please cite your source.
This is a many sided victory. For courage over fear . . . fact over fiction . . . hope over cynicism . . . policy over politics . . . and people over profit.
Fear's out, next batter please!
Nice a 24 year old and his wife can have health insurance now.
If you are unemployed, lazy, shiftless, illegally in this country, or otherwise not contributing to the economy, CONGRATULATIONS! The liberal Congress has guaranteed that you can get health care while you sit on your lazy butt and watch cartoons.
If you have a pre-existing condition, CONGRATULATIONS! You can now get health care at grossly inflated prices, and spend my soon-to-be-grossly-inflated premiums. What do you think the insurance companies will charge you for the mandated insurance? Do you honestly think it will be a reasonable price? Look at it this way, if an insurance company projects your lifetime benefit at, say, $300,000 for your lifetime which projects to 50 more years, what do you think they'll charge you? My guess is that it will be $6000 per year. Are you really any better off?
This bill is incredibly short-sighted and will cost us (and our kids and their kids) billions of dollars. Name ONE government program that is run efficiently and cost-effectively... just one. Social Security (which is what the Democrats constantly bleat about) is going bankrupt. I've paid into it for 30 years, and I likely won't see a penny back. Anyone who doesn't fall into one of the top two groups is SCREWED.
Not really sure I am going to bother working anymore. I just don't see the point. Work hard or don't work hard. The result is the same, but one has a much better vacation plan.
Hey Jerry...where are the lower premiums you promised? When will I get them? How much lower will the be? I am so giddy...to bad I don't believe a word you or your master Pelosi say. But I / we will be watching you. You had better hope this works out by election time. But I do appreciate you as a government lackey making important health care decisons for my family, I just don't understand where you gain the moral equivellecy to do so. You represent a very affuent district, funny, we are the ones that are going to have to pay for this mess. Income re-distribution by more and more taxes just like the big boss said in the campain. There is going to be hell to pay Jerry. But your not worried are you. With your congressional health plan you are vested and will recieve lifetime benefits even after we fire you.
I like it PMom, unlike AVHS Dad I can google.
In 1776 we signed the Declaration of Independence.
In 2010 Obama signed the Declaration of Dependence.
AVHS Dad, I googled it. You need to sit down. PM either got it from - gasp - American Thinker, or regurgitated through the Hannity website! She doesn't need to post her sources because they're always the same.
Jim, such drama. I mean, really.
BTW, Californians, this is a situation unlike most others, where we will actually be getting our fair share of federal funds:
Hey Pleasanton mom...get a clue. There is a $3B unfunded mandate for adding Californians to the Medicare rolls, this is a job killing bill. We never get our "fair share" of taxes back from what we give Washington. Are you serious? Do you really think this? My guess? Your one of the 50% who don't pay any taxes at all. This IS a great deal for you. But just remember it will be the rich you hate so very much that will pick up your slack, unfortunatly, it is also the rich who need to create new jobs, I hope you hang on to yours. But what Jerry is going to find out many of the wealthy who are being stuck with this disaster live right here in his district. Good-bye Jerry. You voted away your job, but I am sure your package is better than what they got at NUMI Jerry.
in my private opinion, jimbaf01 is a DRAMA QUEEN! tee hee hee, tee hee hee...
the DQ will need a few days to cry her eyes out...
Yup, OBAMA RULES!
go go...go stand on the overpass and way your flag...tee hee hee, tee hee hee...
Reality Check, yes, you SHOULD check it.
1. Read the article I posted before you try to make an argument.
2. Your guess re: the 50%? WRONG. Of course I pay taxes. And of course you have to think I don't pay taxes so that your argument could have some validity. Pathetic. On top of that, I am not someone who currently benefits from HCR reform. But that's the whole thing, isn't it? Who knows when any of us might have been on the wrong side of the coverage situation.
3. I don't hate the rich. What does that even mean? How moronic.
Thanks for your fact-packed contribution to the debate. Now I'm going to go out and enjoy being an American!
Either pay less now so that the uninsured and underinsured get adequate and less expensive _preventative_ care or pay more later when these same uninsured go to the emergency room for more _expensive_ care.
Everyone gets old. Everyone can get sick. Rich, poor, young, old, all have equal opportunity at disease!
The able, the unable, the lazy, the hard-working... as Cholo would say, VIVA!
I hear ya. That is exactly what Socialism does - crushes excellence and drive for personal achievement.
Socialism purports to be compassionate, promising security for all from the cradle to the grave. But it is artificial compassion imposed by people who run a monopoly, and the end result of any monopoly is bankruptcy.
Miilions of Americans will now be careful NOT to make too much money. That is what socialism produces - mediocrity and poverty for all.
Even Pleasanton Mom will get old or sick and have a need.
Yes, you will even die eventually. Death; the great equalizer!
Here they are, all in lock step with the Puppet Master Pelosi. No wonder this State is in such a mess. With this bunch of robots in charge were doomed for a decade:
Democrats -- Baca, Y; Becerra, Y; Berman, Y; Capps, Y; Cardoza, Y; Chu, Y; Costa, Y; Davis, Y; Eshoo, Y; Farr, Y; Filner, Y; Garamendi, Y; Harman, Y; Honda, Y; Lee, Y; Lofgren, Zoe, Y; Matsui, Y; McNerney, Y; Miller, George, Y; Napolitano, Y; Pelosi, Y; Richardson, Y; Roybal-Allard, Y; Sanchez, Linda T., Y; Sanchez, Loretta, Y; Schiff, Y; Sherman, Y; Speier, Y; Stark, Y; Thompson, Y; Waters, Y; Watson, Y; Waxman, Y; Woolsey, Y.
Speaking of lockstep, how many Republicans voted for the bill?
Oh, that's right...
OK, look at it this way...
The 219 votes for the bill were ALL DEMOCRATS.
The 212 votes against the bill were BI-PARTISAN (some democrats and all republicans)
In other words, this was forced on the entire country by the democrats, even though some in their own party had the courage to stand up to the strong-arm tactics (and blatant bribery of blue-dog democrats) by Frau Pelosi.
anybody need workers from Tijuana, Mexico?
I'm spreading the word all over Mexico via blogs so that our new visitors know about the benefits of free health care in the USA...VIVA AMERICA!
My wife and I make a combined income of $280K. That puts us just over the threshold for higher taxes as a result of this dumb health bill. This is on top of the already higher taxes we have to pay due to our income bracket, and with Bush's tax cut ending, we're looking to pay even more next year.
We bought our home at the peak of the housing bubble but we still managed to make our mortgage payments while raising 3 children by living a frugal lifestyle. Family vacations are out of the question due to our limited budget. And now we are being FORCED to pay more so we can support all those who choose not to support themselves. This is anything but American!
My wife is considering quitting her job so we can pay less taxes and just live off of the government. We are fed up with being screwed for working hard.
I still want someone to explain to me what math is being used to cover millions of uninsured citizens and still "...reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the next ten years and by $1.2 trillion during the second decade."
Where is the $$ going to come from?
Fewer and fewer supporting everyone else.
But what is your taxable income?
Pleasanton Mom for Truth,
What I love is they keep talking about November. If this HCR works even marginally well, they will have even less seats then. They have screwed themselves by voting no in lockstep.
Republicans have made themselves irrelevant again.
After all the noise dies down, the GOP won't run in November on a platform of repealing this. They certainly haven't repealed Medicare. It'll all be about how they can make it better, more efficient. Making changes to make government more efficient... sounds progressive!
Just keep Medicare Part Donut Hole in mind...
If your Adjusted Gross Income is over 250k, you'll be liable for a higher tax. Just grossing 280k isn't gonna do it. You'll have tax credits for your kids, 401k deductions (if you're smart), deductions for money taken out for benefits, social security, payroll tax...chances are if you gross 280k as a couple your adjusted gross income will drop below the 250k threshold...you should be fine. I too have a family of 3, we bought our house at the peak of the bubble and my wife and I are approaching that income level, but our AGI is below that as well. Regardless, despite having to cut back, be more frugal, etc, I am more than willing to pay a higher tax to provide insurance to those who can't afford it. And why? One because it's because I feel it's my duty as a citizen. and Two is because I know that by providing coverage to everyone we'll lower healthcare costs for everyone as well, the benefits will come back to me and whatever higher tax I pay will be more than made up for by the lower healthcare costs I will enjoy. Plus, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that no longer will you be hearing stories about cancer patients being denied treatment or sick children unable to get coverage. It'll make me proud to be living in a country that will finally truly live up to its supposed christian ideals and care for the least of its brothers and sister, as christ has commanded us to do.
Pleasanton Mom for Truth and Janna,
Here is a link from none other than Jame Hamsher from the website FDL. If you aren't aware, FDL is one of the most left-leaning sites around.
While I certainly wouldn't characterize Ms Hamsher as republican, her opposition to HCR is very engaging and I would hope to get your opinion on what she has to say.
Just so you know, I'm against HCR. I believe its bad for me, my family, and its bad for America. Jane does a great job of capturing why.
Sorry, you're not going to get far referencing Jane Hamsher. We're talking about a women who's teaming up with Grover Norquist, of all people, to try to get Rahm Emmanuel fired. This is like George Bush teaming up with Osama Bin Laden...she's not quite the liberal's liberal you should be referencing.
But regardless, listing her reasons for opposing the bill is highly disingenuous on your part. If any of these things she lists were added to the bill the right wing would oppose the bill just that much more, but you feel no shame in quoting this as the "real" reasons you oppose the bill...whatever...the left has been clamoring for the public option, medicare buyin, hell I even feel like anything short of single-payer is a complete waste, but that is the perfect world, and yet even with the token gestures to these perfect ends were met with screams of socialism, nazism, wingnutism...this is basically mitt romeny's plan in MA...it's similar to what bob dole presented in 1996...yes, insane socialists, those two...what this entire process has shown is that the GOP is being held hostage by its lunatic fringe.
We ended up with a bill that will cover over 32 million people, lower the costs curve, subsidize coverage for millions thus lowering their overall costs, end preexisting conditions, dropping coverage, etc...no this bill isn't perfect. It's an important first step.
But after all this, don't be surprised if you see the GOP stand up and voice its opposition to the bill because it doesn't include a public option...nothing is too much for these hypocrites...
TO: anti-stupid brigad
You are willing to pay higher taxes because you FEEL (there's that "feel" word again).... "because I feel it's my duty as a citizen"
Good for you...donate your money and buy someone health insurance if it makes you FEEL good
But who are you to determine how I should FEEL and what I should do with the money I earn?
I drive a 20 +yr old car, work 40hrs M-F and then paint on the weekends whenever I am presented with the opportunity.
I don't have a lot of debt because I don't buy a lot of stuff that I can't afford. I did not buy a house I could not afford. I am putting my kids through college plus they work to help out and have ever since they could have a job. My spouse works 4 days a week. We don't take vacations except for an occasional Disney trip or to Gold country.
And yes I pay for my health care and my family's health care. Heck, I still am helping to pay for my 27 yr old's health care (works part time + goes to school).
And oh, my 84 yr old father-in-law lives w/ us and we take care of him. This means we feed, bath and take him to his doctor appointments.
And we have saved for our retirement because, God knows, I wont ever get any SS money I paid into the system back. I know that.
I have absolutely no problem w/ any of that (except all the money I lost to SS). All of the above is my responsibility to my family and that makes me a good citizen because of self reliance. Me or my family are NOT a burden to you or anyone else. That makes me a GOOD citizen
But I do have a big problem w/ you. Because you FEEL its your duty as a citizen to pay, you seem to think its my duty to FEEL like you do and then go on to use t hat as a definition of a good citizen.
Your rationales are just laughable. But let me ask you just one question. If all you say is so true then what do you think of CHARLIE RANGLE? He did not even pay his taxes. (what was it 3 times???)
What kind of citizen is he who like you, can impose how he FEELS on others and feel the "satisfaction" that he too is a good citizen because he played a role in raising my taxes.
Looks like a lot of you are trying to not only rewrite history but what it means to be a good citizen.
Everyone who has their hand in this abortion of a bill should be lined up against ans summary excuted for treason starting with the people in charge.
Teabaggers: rise sally rise...wipe your winking eyes...put your hands on your hips and make your backbone slip on shake it sally...that or, weep your eyes out for until you can't get to sleep!
ps easy does it...a day at a time...one step at a time...hahahahahahahahahaha...
Okay, since feelings don't seem to matter to you, i'll tell you what i believe. Great, you tell yourself you work hard and are self-reliant, you're a tough guy and don't need no help from nobody. And that makes you a better citizen than the rest of us. Lemme guess, your father in law isn't on medicare or collecting social security? Oh yeah, nevermind. Why not unplug from the power and water grids while you're at it. You're tough, you don't rely on anyone else, so you get your own drinking water from down at the crick and you do your warsh down them there parts too? Stop buying groceries and grow your own food, because those groceries are carried to the store on trucks that travel on the interstate highway system and you don't got no need for such things. Prove your worth. You say your kids are attending college? Are these by chance all private institutions that take not a single dime in federal grants or subsidies or are they public institutions that are primarily financed by *gasp* tax dollars? Are your kids getting any student loans or grants?
You tell yourself that you won't get any of your SS money back, well, I guess that means that you won't retire until you're 175 years old, because at worst if nothing is done (like increasing the SS payroll deduction max from 92k to something higher like 150k which will extend SS for 100% benefit payout well into the 22nd century) it'll still pay out 75% of the promised benefits starting 2044. So sure, tell yourself you won't see any SS money cuz that's the savvy thing to say after filling your head with rush limbaugh and faux news.
The point you "self-reliant" folks always seem to forget is that 95% of the quality of life you enjoy (like driving your 20 year old car on paved roads) is due to the society you live in collectively coming together to SHARE the burdens and costs of providing the services you enjoy. So the next time you flush that toilet and wonder where the water goes, or turn on the tap and wonder why the water isn't yella; the next time you flip a switch and a light comes on or you hear that phone a ringin'; the next time your 84 year old father-in-law suddenly takes ill and you ring up 911 and get a response within 5 minutes; the next time you cash that social security check or check that medicare statement, sit back and ask yourself just how self-reliant you really are.
Maybe spend some time and think that it really is more than just you and that the services you enjoy are due to people willing to share the burdens of society and have a representative government in place to organize and manage the allocation of those services, and maybe ask yourself if you are in fact being a good citizen for deluding yourself into thinking you're not a burden on the rest of us. A good citizen is not someone who thinks of themselves as self-reliant and somehow not a burden on the rest of us...rather a BAD citizen is one who thinks just that...that they owe us nothing cuz they don't take nothing, when in fact they take a lot and are just lying themselves and to the rest of us...
to continue: "Because you FEEL its your duty as a citizen to pay, you seem to think its my duty to FEEL like you do and then go on to use t hat as a definition of a good citizen."
Yes, I do FEEL this and I believe it too. If you're going to enjoy the benefits of the society we live in, like highways, clean water, electricity, food, police, fire, emergency services, a strong defense, universities, and yes, by god, healthcare; then you better freaking pay your share to keep these systems functioning. And those who can afford to pay more should, not as a form of wealth redistribution, but because they have been rewarded just that much more for living in a society that has enabled them to reach the level of success they've attained. The idea of the self-made success story is a joke. Tell me about the self-made millionaire who capitalized off some internet startup. The internet itself was a government program financed entirely by tax dollars. If that program hadn't been in place you think he would be sitting on a pile of cash right now? Take someone who runs a successful trucking company...tell me how far he gets in life without the interstate highway system. Those who attain a high level of success and monetary gain do it primarily because the resources and facilities they used to reach that level of success are provided for by a society that is organized and financed by tax dollars to provide those services. Do I think they should be punished for attaining a high level of success? No, but they should at least acknowledge they have attained that level of success based in a large degree on the stability and benefits provided by our society as a whole, and they have a responsibility both to themselves and to everyone around them to do their part to keep the system functioning properly.
From some myth/fact sheet on the FDL website:
Fact: "Most people with medical bankruptcies already have insurance, and out-of-pocket expenses will continue to be a burden on the middle class."
Having insurance is not the same as having enough insurance. Many of those medical bankruptcies are people who were underinsured or lost coverage. For example, they may have had insurance plans with lifetime maximum benefits and they got sick with something that required very expensive treatment. Maybe they can't even go back to work.
That's great you can work and pay for all those things, even helping your adult children, but you're getting old. You may lose your job and not get rehired. Jobs are pretty scarce these days and will probably be so for a long time. When you get up there in age the job insecurity increases. And maybe you could get sick and won't even be able to work indefinitely. Maybe some idiot will crash into you on the freeway. Will your insurance cover all that? Have you prepared for that? Can you cover the remaining expenses with your retirement funds? Can you afford millions in medical costs, an organ transplant perhaps with subsequent hospital stay? Most people can't.
blah blah blah.....get some new talking points , really your society vs individualism argument (if you really want to call it that) is really , well, blah blah blah blah
This statement alone, "The idea of the self-made success story is a joke" needs little commentary.
As does the fact you had to post twice....got rage?
You are not changing minds anti-stupid, but I bet you FEEL better
Now get on w/ your blah blah blah posts and have a good day!
Wow. Nice comeback. Is that what you hear when you listen to glenn beck too? blah blah blah? Or anything that might stretch your brain a bit...ah screw it, it's all blah blah blah...no wonder you drive a 20 year old car and scrape together work and pat yourself on the back for being such a self-reliant guy...anything that challenges you is just blah blah blah....
How about commenting on the actual points she made instead telling me how disingenuous(huh?)I am? You don't know me enough to call me that. You're straw-mans linking GWB and OBL are to juvenile to address.
Same to you. You picked out one part - bankruptcy - but somehow left out all the other points. I'm interested in what you think too.
That's because I focus on the fundamental: everyone gets old, everyone gets sick. The bankruptcies are only a symptom of that. IMHO wants to pretend they're not in the same boat.
I have pre-existing conditions...I pay for my own healthcare which is outrageously expensive...I am against this bill for obvious reasons that those who support this bill wish to close their eyes too...I want healthcare reform, but not Obama's way which is about more government control and bigger and bigger government;history shows this always makes the individual smaller, inconsequential...
Courageous vote by McNerney? Come on, all he ever does is vote the way Pelosi does, how courageous is it to be a sheep following what the leadership wants...This was more of fall in line with the party vote...
McNerney and the current democratic leadership must go, their policies and tactics are bad for America, bad for our community and bad for all of us as individuals.
I just sent a contribution to David Harmer -- "Nancy" Mcnerney's replacement.
One way to solve the health care problem in this country is to stop allowing employers to give health care to their employees as a tax free benefit. It is income to whoever receives it and should be subject to Income, Social Security and Medicare taxes. That alone will raise several hundred billion a year to help pay for the cost the medical nightmare just passed by Congress, instead of trying to tax dividens and interest to pay for it. Just think of the Bay Bridge only costing several hundred million to build according to the governments first estimate, compared to the several billion the final product is costing.
Their estimate of the cost of this plan is even further off than the bridge estimate. Their thinking that reducing what they pay doctors and hospitals will reduce the cost of healthcare is stupid at best. The jerks in Congress don't work for free and neither will the doctors. I know several doctors who will not accept medicare patients because they barly break even on treating them. It will only get worse.
If you have to pay taxes on your health care, you are going to beat the crap out of your insurance company to give you the best coverage at the least cost. Under todays system, why should you worry what the premium is, that's your employers problem. Of course if the employer tries to make a Union member help pay for the cost, it's strike time. The attitude that healthcare, higher education, food and housing are an entitlement, will push this country into third world status within the near future, as the few who do produce and create jobs are getting sick and tired of being raped to pay for those too lazy to be worthy of life.
All the name calling from these so-called adults is pathetic!
Did anyone notice that Jerry did not list even a single possible side effect from this "wonderful" bill?
I too have sent a donation to David Harmer.
Thank you Jerry. And thanks for listening, even to this third generation Republican.
TO: anti-stupid brigad
Sounds like you have been drinking that "Left-Wing-Political-Media" cool aid.
Bruce - One thing to remember is that Union Health & Welfare plans are exempt from taxes under the new plan. As a union employer, I currently pay $14,000 annually per employee for their health plan. It is TAX FREE! Unfortunately, for the rest of us we have to pay for our health coverage in "after tax" dollars, with no tax write-off for the premiums.
The Dems are controlled to a great deal by unions. The unions screamed bloody murder when it looked like their "cadillac plans" were going to be taxed under the new Health Care Bill. That's why taxes on the union plans do not begin until 2018 -- By then, they will have figured a way around the new law, or had it changed by sympathetic recipients of their campaign contributions.
@ ASB - Thank you for your continued thoughtful and intelligent posts. After some of the craptacular cut & pastes that have been posted as of late, I was beginning to think Pleasanton was solely occupied by the knuckledraggers too stoned on Rush and Beck to think clearly for themselves. That the GOP continues to brainwash its followers to where they will vote against their own self interest, completely amazes me. Imagine if that power was used for the common good rather than to benefit a select few.
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Where's the wind?
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