Healthcare Bill designed to drive Insurance Industry out of Business State, National, International, posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 12:04 pm
I believe the true motive of the Government Takeover of Healthcare is to force the Free Market Insurance Industry out of business, leaving us with no choice but a Single Payer Government system.
Here is how the current healthcare bill will achieve this:
The government will mandat and control the pricing of insurance premiums (actually the government is already largely responsible for the price of insurance premiums being so high today) - the average premium for a family will be $15,000 per year. If you can't afford that, then you jsut pay a fine to the IRS every year. The are hiring 12,000 new IRS agents to handle the enforcement.
Then when you get sick or have an accident, you can buy an insurance policy. The insurance company will be prohibited from denying you because of that pre-existing condition. It's like buying a homeowner's policy when your home is already on fire. The insurance company cannot stay in business if it can't take in sufficient premiums, and is only paying out claims. So the insurance companies will be forced out of business.
The other way the insurance companies will be forced out of business is that Employers are going to incentivized to drop their employee health plans because it will be cheaper for them to just pay the fine to the IRS every year, instead of the paying the ever increasing insurance premiums that the insurance companies will have to charge just to stay in business in this new Government-forced environment. If more and more Employers drop their employee insurance plans, that's less and less premiums for the insurance companies - it's a vicious cycle - they have to raise their premiums to stay in business - making it even more unaffordable for Employers to pay the premiums, and thus making the decision to drop the plans and just pay the fine to the IRS.
Obama has said over and over (on tape) that he wants a Single Payer Government plan. This healthcare bill is designed to achieve that.
Posted by no big brother, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Obama's quote that keeps playing today is 'if this health care bill doesn't pass, the insurance industry will continue to run amuck"...!.. Wow...we can't have that ! It would be so much better to have our GOVERNMENT RUN AMUCK ! ! ! right ?
Last week I saw one of our blabby lawmakers (hispanic) said he switched his vote because of an important trade....Obama PROMISED him in the COMPREHENSIVE immigration REFORM, (which Obama will complete in time for elections),Obama will in THAT bill INCLUDE illegals in this new health care program...but would have them PAY for it . RIGHT !!! How would he establish price...in the end it would be 'oh well, let it ride' 'all in'. There will be such a shortage of doctors. Of course every inner-city kid will get a free education if they just go into MEDICINE...so we can have enough doctors for us ! Oh how good our old doctors will look..over the new ULTIMATELY, government doctors, as others fall by the wayside...as they inevitably will.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
The Inconvenient Truth: Everybody gets old and sick.
"First, these countries all mandate the individual to be insured for a basic package of health care benefits.
Many Americans oppose such a mandate as an infringement of their personal rights, all the while believing that they have a perfect right to highly expensive, critically needed health care, even when they cannot pay for it. This immature, asocial mentality is rare in the rest of the world. An insurance sector that must insure all comers at premiums that are not contingent on the insured’s health status — a feature President Obama has promised — cannot function for long if people can go without insurance when they are healthy, but are entitled to premiums unrelated to their health status when they fall ill."
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 2:19 pm Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
"All three countries offer their citizens reliable, portable health insurance based on the principle of social solidarity, but WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT-RUN health insurance PLAN LIKE MEDICARE. The $64,000 question is whether America’s private health insurers would be willing to countenance the tight regulation required for that approach."
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Glenn Beck is interviewing Tim Cahill, the Secretary of Treasury of the State of Massachusetts (a former Democrat, now an Independent), he is saying that if this Government takeover of healthcare passes, it will bankrupt the country within 4 years, based on what he knows what happened in Massachusetts when they passed universal healthcare in 2006.
Posted by no big brother, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I just heard on CNN that Pelosi is weighing each member's DISTRICT INDIVIDUALLy...which is reasonably safe, others close...then Sat nite do a count to see how close.... keep reviewing each district so those in CLOSE districts (like McNerney) will keep blabbing the con about being 'Undecided'!. As it gets close to SUN morning, IF she has the count in the bag, then she'll give "undecided" Jerry PERMISSION to vote against . SO, THAT's when we'll know what 'HIS DECISION' is !! What a farse!
Posted by Kathleen, a resident of the Vineyard Hills neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 5:51 pm
I understand your argument, and it is a persuasive one, but that is not how Wall St. sees it. In fact, for the last several days the stocks of most insurers have gone up, way up, because the mandate for coverage provision in the bill is viewed as millions of more customers paying into the pool that are not in it currently. Just today, according to Reuters and CNBC, Aetna closed up 3.67%, Cigna up 3.46%, UnitedHealth Group up 2.38%, Wellpoint up 1.96% -- just today! The sector as a whole has risen over 6% in the last three days -- an unprecedented increase. It is a boom, not a bust.
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 7:38 pm
The existing insurance companies represent the current infrastructure, so a Government mandate to purchase insurance would surely drive extra business to the existing infrastructure. But Obama and the Democrats have said time and time and time again that this healthcare bill is only "a starter home" for the true agenda. Pelosi said yesterday that more legislation is to come. The plan is to drive the free market insurers out of business, and force us all onto single payer goverment-run healthcare,like in Canada and England. Remember that the goal of Marxists is to eliminate the free market.
Posted by can't stand the stupid, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Not that you care, but england does not run a single-payer system. England is where you have true socialized medicine. The system is financed and run entirely by the government, the doctors, nurses, hospitals are all owned an operated by the government. THAT is a socialist model. A single-payer system is something else entirely. It's where the government is basically the single health insurance provider for the entire country. People pay premiums and taxes into a giant single pool of cash from which the government pays to cover the costs of its citizens, thus there's a "single payer" for all the health costs incurred by citizens. For the most part, the doctors, nurses, hospitals are all privately owned and operated. If this sounds familiar, indeed it is...Medicare is a single-payer system. You know. MEDICARE. As in the famous teabagger slogan: "Keep the government's hands off my medicare!" Amazing how a single-payer system being run in this country is being defended to the point of insanity by the very people fighting to prevent a single-payer system for the rest of us (those under 65, etc). This in a nutshell explains the stupid of the average teabagger. You don't even know what you're talking about half the time.
"the goal of Marxists is to eliminate the free market". The amount of stupidity in that sentence alone is mind boggling. Admit it, you don't even know what a Marxist is other than it being some bad word Glenn Beck uses, so it must be a bad thing. Do you even know who Karl Marx is, have you even HEARD of a single book of his? Das Kapital (those germans were lousy spellers), perhaps? (And, no, I didn't have to google that because i spent some time actually educating myself instead of sitting around and reading some rightwing rag.) Do you realize that in a basic way he was arguing for a more radical form of free markets than you would ever comprehend. That he believed that freeing up the flow of capital from the clutches of a tiny minority, the bougeois, (ohhh, scary french word) and empowering the vast majority of the world (the proletariat) held in the clutches of the oligarchies would lead to the ultimate freedom of humanity. In essence, to claim that a world where the top 1% of the country controls 98% of the wealth is hardly a free market. But fortunately you have glenn beck to tell you that the very people trying to help improve your life are the ones to fear. Stupid. That's why you have people at teabagger rallies holding up signs saying "keep the government out of my medicare" and claiming at the same time that obama is a facist and a communist. And its why you have supposed dedicated faithful evangelical christians who listen even more faithfully to the rantings of glenn beck, a man who claims that social justice is not the heart of christianity, but a plot to enslave the world. If that's not a gross subversion of the message of christ, i don't know what is...satan must be envious of glenn beck's abilities...
So yeah, go back to your american thinker magazine, since you seem to let that rag do all the thinking for you...
Posted by HHR, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Mar 19, 2010 at 11:35 pm
To the poster above, thank you for the laugh. My stomach still hurts from laughing so hard. At the same time you cracked me up, you said some very truthful things that the right wing nuts needed to hear.
These selfish, mean, clogged brains will never change though, so we might as well have a laugh on them instead.
What a bunch of idiots!
I wonder if they would be saying all this crap about Health Insurance Reform if they weren't covered. I'm sure they wouldn't. They don't want others to have what they already have. Selfish idiots!
Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of the Vintage Hills Elementary School neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 7:50 am
My father was a big fan of Benny HIll (British Comedian). Half his skits were about trying to get health care with the rich sneaking in the back of hospitals by paying extra.
I've written to every government representative I can about this debacle. Has anyone yet answered the question of why they aren't just opening the state borders and letting the insurance companies compete nationwide? Seems like such a simple first step (and maybe a final fix?).
Second question is if 90% of us are covered, why isn't there a solution that addresses just the last 10%? Why do we all need to get the government fix?
Posted by Rae, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 8:17 am
"can't stand the stupid"
Unfortunately, those like "Pleasanton Mom" who parrot the opinions of their favorite pundit and call it research have proven that the more you ask them to take a hard look at the source of their information, the more zealous in its defense they become. Not only would they never question the motive of the pundit they’re parroting, they have no interest in digging below the surface to look at actual data – from the Constitution and what the “founding fathers” actually said, to the HCR bills and CBO Report.
Indeed, their zealousness has led to a fanatical view of the issues in which "God is on our side", we are the "right people", the only "true Americans", "patriots" standing together to fight the "evil” socialist/Marxist/communist/nazi/statist Democrats that are out to “destroy America”.
Can we say "McCarthyism"?? I'll spell it out for those folks who have an aversion to real research . . . McCarthyism is "the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence". Sound familiar?
Posted by Rae, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 9:18 am
Regarding the numbers of insured, I'll repost what I said in another thread on this subject ("CBO says Obamacare Increases Healthcare premiums"). In that thread "jimf01" had stated Fox News was reporting "85% of the American people had health insurance, and 95% of the 85% were happy with it".
Just a note on the number of uninsured Americans . . .
The number of "85% insured" is based on Census numbers for 2008 that were reported in Sept 09. Web Link
Note that: "The numbers for 2008 do not capture the economic impact in the first half of 2009 as hundreds of thousands of Americans lost their jobs and likely their health insurance" and "Based on current job losses, for instance, some researchers estimate the present-day number of uninsured is closer to 50 million, the number now used by the Congressional Budget Office". And this report was in Sept 09, five months prior to our seeing our highest unemployment rate yet.
Although we won't know the true impact of the recession on health care insurance coverage until late this year for 2009, and late next year for 2010, I can't imagine that the true number of where we are today will look the same, or have improved.
and in a subsequent post by me in the same thread:
New information on the number of uninsured Americans . . . in this case, Californians.
It turns out that "About 8.2 million Californians younger than 65 — or nearly one in four — lacked insurance during all or part of last year, up from 6.4 million in 2007. The findings surprised even those who had anticipated a sizable jump among the uninsured due to unemployment, which hit 12.5 percent in January." Web Link
I'm guessing that California is just the tip of the iceburg and our numbers forecast what we'll soon be seeing across the nation. Which of course means higher costs to hospitals treating the uninsured, who then pass the cost to the (wonderful, free market, unregulated) insurance carriers (so beloved by the GOP and the Tea Party Nation), who will then pass the cost via higher premiums to those (without pre-existing conditions) they still insure. Oh wait, that's already happening . . .
As far as opening up the borders to offer insurance across state lines, it's an issue of regulation - some states have more stringent regulations and coverage requirements than others. However, this idea is, in fact, addressed in both the House and Senate HCR bills under the section titled "Interstate Health Insurance Compacts".
Here's a link so you can see for yourself what each version of HR3962, the HCR bill actually says, here's the link: Web Link:
Here's a link to a pretty informative debates on the pros and cons: Web Link
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 9:31 am
Your thoughts are right on. Covering the uninsured should not result in wiping out my private property. The contract I have with my insurance carrier is my private property. I don't want to be forced into a government-run HMO that controls what treatment doctors can give me based on my worth or value to the Government.
Many people think it will run like Medicare, but it will not. Right now, there is protective language in the Medicare law that prevents government from intervening in medical decisions, from penalizing doctors "for giving too much care". But Pelosi stripped out that language in this proposed healthcare bill. Just google Ezekiel Emanuel and see what he says about the Hippocratic Oathe, it's downright scary!! It won't be "your" doctor anymore, it will be the "Government's doctor". This Government is NOT for your health!
True Reform would not involve the purposeful destruction of the free market insurance companies.
The truth is that Obama hates the free market, he wants total government control. It's the Fundamental Transformation of America that he promised - Transformation into economic enslavement for all.
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 10:10 am
In January 2010, just days after Republican Scott Brown won the election in Liberal Massachusetts, Democrats in California’s state senate, oblivious to the tsunami of public opinion against single payer health care, have nonetheless approved a state-wide health insurance plan which will cost at least $225 billion a year, which is three times the current state budget deficit.
The bill will also OUTLAW PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE for everybody except……union employees.
California Democrats Move to Outlaw Private Insurance:
Posted by Conspiracy, a resident of the Happy Valley neighborhood, on Mar 20, 2010 at 10:27 am
Uncoverage dot net? Man, we're really looking under every slimy rock to find some obscure web sites to support our ideas these days, aren't we?
Let me guess: "mainstream media is too leftist (read: "has ethics and supports stories with facts:) and too cowardly to expose these (fake) truths, etc."
Pleasanton Mom: how about giving it a rest? The vote is tomorrow; there's nothing to be done at this time anyway. What do you hope to accomplish? What good will come from crazed conspiracy theories and fear?
Posted by ElDubyaKay, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Mar 21, 2010 at 8:30 am
WOW, just stumbled across this site and first impression was, oh... another Huffington Post site" until I noticed a couple voices of reason (kudo's Pleasanton Mom). Striking how the wildest accusations, misstated claims, factual inaccuracies, hateful rhetoric and vitriolic personal attacks always emanate from the same side whose litter must also be cleaned up after they've conducted a rally or demonstration...
If you believe that government could and should provide you with goods and services falsely described as human rights then you must also accept the eventual certainty that government can and will regulate them away or outright deny access to those goods and services when it runs out of OPM (other peoples money).
If you believe that Sonia Sotomayor's unique life experience as a latina female somehow QUALIFIES her to make better judicial decisions than a white male but conversely believe the unique life experiences of Clarence Thomas DIS-QUALIFIES him to make equally sound judicial decisions than a white male your thought process pursuit of truth falls a little short in the consistency department.
If you believe women's liberation organizations of the 1960's & '70's were justified in demanding the government stay away from their uteruses and were correct in their claim that their bodies were a sacred temple never to be violated by any other authority then you MUST... now... question their silence, because it truly is deafening!
If you are seeking truth, it would seem to me you should stick with the pursuit beyond the point of satisfying your pre-conceived opinions.
"If you believe that government could and should provide you with goods and services falsely described as human rights then you must also accept the eventual certainty that government can and will regulate them away or outright deny access to those goods and services when it runs out of OPM (other peoples money)."
Um...not really true. This is what is known to people with a high school education or better as a "slippery slope" argument. It is a logical fallacy. Next point, please:
"If you believe that Sonia Sotomayor's unique life experience as a latina female somehow QUALIFIES her to make better judicial decisions than a white male but conversely believe the unique life experiences of Clarence Thomas DIS-QUALIFIES him to make equally sound judicial decisions than a white male your thought process pursuit of truth falls a little short in the consistency department."
Did you forget what you were talking about? Is this just some catch-all crazy-cat-lady rant? If this is an actual response to something in this thread or a related one, would you please elaborate?
"If you believe women's liberation organizations of the 1960's & '70's were justified in demanding the government stay away from their uteruses and were correct in their claim that their bodies were a sacred temple never to be violated by any other authority then you MUST... now... question their silence, because it truly is deafening!"
Question whose silence? Why MUST we now question it? It is difficult to piece together what you are saying here--are you saying that women should not have equal rights? Or do you claim the gov't should have control of their uteruses?
"If you are seeking truth, it would seem to me you should stick with the pursuit beyond the point of satisfying your pre-conceived opinions."
Your word choice says a lot. "Truth" is simply a belief--a choice. To one person, Buddha is truth, while to another, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the god of all creation. If you'd like to play here with the big kids, let's stick to FACTS, please. You're entitled to your own "truth," but not to your own facts.
"I pray you find curiosity..."\
Prayer answered! If nothing else, I'm VERY curious what this is supposed to mean!
Keep up the truthiness!
P.S. I LOVE that Pleasanton Mom finds this drunken ramble so powerful. Great minds...
Posted by ElDubyaKay, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Mar 21, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Pleasanton Mom, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the majority of participants here. Keep in mind there is a far larger number of eyeballs viewing but not participating who are more likely to be positively influenced reading your words as opposed to those of your detractor's.
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 21, 2010 at 2:39 pm
I WISH they would JUST cover those uninsured people!!
But that's NOT what's going on. If it were truly about just "covering the uninsured" then the 85% of people who are already have insurance wouldn't be in jeopardy of LOSING THEIR INSURANCE.
This government takeover of healthcare is not about health, not about care, and certainly not about those uninsured people. Those unsinsured people are just the group of people that the Progressives (another name for Marxists who have hijacked the Democrat Party) are USING to take over and control 1/6th of the economy, drive the free market insurance companies out of business (I've explained how they plan to do it in other posts) and force every single one of us into their Government-run single-payer plan where they get total control of our life and death decisions, they will CONTROL every doctor in the country, penalizing and fining him if he provides more care than they think you're worth. Did you not understand the post by RN? I have nothing to do with the medical field, but what RN said is exactly right, based on the year of reading and research I have personally done.
It is about imposing socialism on America. Healthcare is always used by socialist governments to control the population.
Have you ever wondered what the tea partiers and those who are against the government takeover of the healthcare industry know that you don't know? They can't all just be racists and hate mongers!
No, they have information that you don't have, obviously. How could tens of thousands of people drop everything and drive to DC this weekend - you think they hate the uninsured? No, it's because the Progressive government is Fundamentally Transforming our country! They are taking away our freedom to make medical decisions with our own doctors. Doctors won't be allowed to work for us after this bill passes, doctors will be working for the Government. And the goal of a socialist Government is NOT CONSISTENT with our health!! Just look at the examples in England, this legislation is based on that plan - it "cuts costs" by rationing and denying healthcare.
I do not hate anyone, and certainly not the uninsured as you assert, that's just stupid.
Posted by Pleasantonian Mom, a resident of the Beratlis Place neighborhood, on Mar 21, 2010 at 2:50 pm
"force every single one of us into their Government-run single-payer plan"
But seriously, though--this has been proven to be clearly untrue time and time again. Why do you persist? I mean, if you really do have a legitimate issue with HCR, why not express THAT instead of reiterating debunked scare-tactics? I'm really asking: why not throw out the stuff you know by now isn't true? THEN we can have a meaningful debate about the facts of HCR.
Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Mar 21, 2010 at 3:01 pm
You are believeing the Democrat talking points, you believe the very people who are forcing this through - to their benefit.
Others have posted multiple videos of Obama stating that he wants a single payer health plan. The plan by design will drive free market insurance companies out of business. I posted an article yesterday about California Democrats moving to outlaw private insurance companies.
Progressives hate the free market. THEY WANT TOTAL CONTROL, because they believe it will keep THEM IN POWER in perpetuity.
Why have Americans lost their ability to recognize evil, and their desire to protect their own freedom, and that of future generations? Freedom is your birthright. But you have to protect it.