Citizen Challenges Jerry McNerney to a Debate on his Healthcare Reform Vote State, National, International, posted by Dominic Di Blasio, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 7:23 am Dominic Di Blasio is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Sent to Jerry McNerney
I challenge you to a debate on the current Democratic Health Reform bill, better known as socialized medicine. You said you would not vote for this bill unless it was good for small businesses...I challenge you to stand up publicly and defend your position---clearly this bill is BAD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES and bad for our country...Time for you to represent the people of District 11 instead of just voting fore the social agenda of the Democratic Party
Posted by Elaine, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 11:38 am
If anyone can find this slippery joke of a representative, ask him where in the US Constitution he has the right to mandate that Americans purchase healthcare coverage. And if he actually attempts an answer, do not let him get away with providing the analogy of auto insurance. This analogy does not apply...adults who do not drive do not purchase auto insurance...and there are other problems with this analogy as well.
Pin McNerney down! National healthcare will further bankrupt America, it will result in many more job losses and will grow government exponentially.
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 1:19 pm
If you watched the seven and a half hours of discussion yesterday at Blair House regarding Health Care Reform, you shouldn't need to challenge McNerney to a debate because you would already have the answers, as it was discussed at great length and specific dollar amounts both during the meeting and in the accompanying news analysis.
In the meantime, please see attached article regarding issues facing small businesses in the current healthcare climate:
"Tom Simmons, president of an Oakland design and consulting firm with four employees, said he had just read about the Anthem increases when he opened a letter from his insurer, Blue Shield of California, informing him his monthly family premium would go up to $1,596 a month from $908, a nearly 76 percent increase.
"This industry is getting out of control. It makes me fearful of future years and what could become of things if something doesn't change," said Simmons, whose business health insurance policy also covers his family of three.
He ultimately was able to reduce the increase to about 16 percent, but only after switching to a plan with a higher deductible and other higher out-of-pocket expenses."
Posted by Dominic, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 5:21 pm
The Anthem premium case example is no justification for the current healthcare bill. It's easy to take one case and make a gross generalization, this is how liberals try to influence public opinion, not giving the whole picture, just statistics to rationalize their argument...I suggest "Small Businesses are Important" read the 2,400+ page bill and then formulate a comment on how it is good for small business!
Making the point that healthcare costs are out of control, simply means we do need healthcare reforms---perhaps a point we agree on....You miss the larger point, this current Democratic forced on the people legislation, is bad for you, bad for me, and certainly bad for small business...
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 5:55 pm
What you call a "gross generalization," I call an "illustration." Simply one example of what's currently taking place. I'm not using that one example to justify the entire bill. As I mentioned, the issue was discussed ad nauseum yesterday and the numbers were crunched in excrutiating detail by the pundits afterward. The results showed a clear advantage to small business overall with the proposed reform. The past year of discussion, illustration, and debate is also what I use to justify the bill. The only way in which the current bills are bad for you, bad for me, and bad for small business is the likely absence in the end of a public option.
I might note that accusing liberals of trying to influence public opinion through statistics interesting, considering the attempt by conservatives to scare seniors with false "death panels" and other reprehensible tactics.
Posted by Wayne, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 26, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Dom - You want to debate. Then stop trying to define your opponent rather than your particular point of view. The rethuglycan tactics you call debate are nothing more than trying to redefine the parameters of the debate to begin with.
To actually debate you have to study and respect the others point of view. Oh didn't you see the president wipe the floor with the conservatives trying to play the same tune as you. Only in kabuki theater can conservatism make any sense.
In an actual debate, a real debater showed how inept conservative intellectualism has become. Hey Dom, don't worry call me a name and keep holding on to the faith.
Posted by Dominic, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Both sides have pundits supporting their respective points of view so that is hardly an argument. The fact of the matter is that yesterday Obama did not allow for debate, he cut the Republicans input off by calling their issues "talking points; also he dismissed McCain who is not a conservative, by framing the excellent points the Senator made with his "the campaign is over" maneuver.
I understand the opposing point of view position and would debate anyone including McNerney...As for name calling, I guess framing conservatism as only intellectual in kabuki theatre is not name calling...let me guess, it's an illustration.
Ok, without changing the topic, or using a grossly exaggerated stat that seemingly only the like-minded folks see as an illustration, help me understand how mandating small businesses to provide a level of healthcare insurance for all their employees as defined by the government and penalizing monetarily if they do not comply, how is this going to be good for the small business?
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 7:51 pm
I would say McCain made his point in return just fine, Jim. Obama was cutting off McCain's theatrics.
A lot more happened yesterday than Ryan's assessment of the financials. The financials were discussed in great detail throughout the seven plus hours, using the CBO's independent assessment of various scenarios.
Your inablility to recognize the entire process is a perfect - illustration - of the right's unwillingness to negotiate or compromise.
Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community, on Feb 26, 2010 at 8:08 pm
It's not ridiculous, it is a bipartisan compromise. Happens all the time my friend. And I guess you didn't pay attention to the part when the (R)s were talking, because they spent much of that time blowing large holes in the CBO analysis.
Rep Paul Ryan's main point, the CBO can only score what is put in front of them, so, for instance, and this is only one small example, $52 billion of savings is claimed by counting increased Social Security payroll revenues. These dollars are already claimed for future Social Security beneficiaries.
That is counted as savings by the CBO, because they are told to count it that way. In the mean time, we create yet another unfunded liability.
Posted by Wayne, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm
You are still crafting a message you want to debate but you called the oppositions plan socialist. The corporations own everything, both parties in congress, and they have a socialist agenda.
Socialist medicine is Universal Health care, not the piles of crap which benefit corporations before the American people. I call that fascism but you may disagree.
Misquoting me is why you can't debate. I only called you inept you made up the rest. How do you intend to debate if you misquote to belittle me? Inept you are sir.
I was not kidding when I said it takes a lot of pretending reality doesn't have to exist for conservatism make sense. Most of you voted for a male cheerleader with a gay college roommate for president. See how facts don't really matter.
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 8:40 pm
My goodness, it's so much worse than I even thought.
A compromise is a settlement of differences by mutual concessions. The GOP won't concede anything. That is why it is not a bipartisan compromise.
We are all paying for it, one way or another. You want to focus on small business, that leaves out increased premiums to large businesses and individual plans without reform - we'll pay for that. Continued last ditch emergency care, we'll pay for that. THAT is socialized medicine. Let's give people some coverage options.
The article analyzes the impact of HCR on business hiring. The main concern voiced is that businesses won't hire because they can't afford the benefits or fines. That is what I was addressing. It is a very valid point, and a very valid analysis.
Posted by Dominic, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I asked a couple of you to help me understand a factual issue in the Obama plan, I asked to show me how this issue helps small businesses especially those that aren't required to provide healthcare for every employee currently?...instead of responding to it, I am categorized me as a non-debator...How about answering the question I posed, instead of continuing on with your rhetoric...
Secondarily, I guess back room, closed to the public meetings, side bar crony deals, even when the Dems said they would craft their bill and debate it on C-Span and did not, I suppose this is not rediculous, just necessary because they know better than most of us.
Posted by Wayne, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 26, 2010 at 9:02 pm
I called conservatives inept, you are stretching the rest. When has calling someone a socialist not become name calling? Oh its just in jest when conservatives do it. Are you just used to hearing your opposition painted in such frames?
Conservatives had the attention of the leader of the free world and they only prepared by bringing talking points by Karl Rove and Frank Luntz. The same talking points we've been hearing since this process began. The same two people who own the modern conservative movement.
Talking points are always abused to avoid solving problems. It is offensive watching bumper sticker politicians abuse facts to waste the time of our president.
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 26, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Dominic, how about responding to the issues, articles, and analysis that have been presented, rather than just complaining that people are miscategorizing you or only providing rhetoric?
Is HCR a plan to help small businesses? I thought it was a plan to reform health care. Speaking for myself, I can most closely reply by responding to how it impacts small businesses, which I did above. If you didn't know what was going on with the bills, it wasn't because the information wasn't there. And your accusations in the face of the unprecedented day long meeting yesterday ring empty.
Jim, your compromise definition is getting less clear and more dogmatic with each post. As far as the risk pool, there was clear discussion on how the GOP plan created high risk pools with insurmountable cost obstacles, while still only adding coverage for 3 v. 30 million people.
Posted by Wayne, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 26, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Do you even recognize that neither plan is intended to help anyone? These plans are not about people, their health, or the care they get. These plans are about the best way to reign in the corporations who we have zero control over. These plans are about taking power away from corporations who are killing people for profit. I hardly doubt those who champion more and more rights for corporations have the proper perspective of what people need in this case.
You keep wanting to know how this helps Small Business is that really more important then saving another Americans life? I know conservatives want to put the issue off. It is morally reprehensible to let people die because of what a business needs. Must be an exceptional American perspective to put the needs of corporations over the lives of American people.
When corporations have more control over the will of the government then the people we have a fascist state. Try books if you need a better understanding of fascism.
Posted by Dominic, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Feb 27, 2010 at 8:27 am
First and foremost, the all day meetings were for show and accomplished nothing. This meeting was a big time waster, Obama is not and will not consider republican ideas which will require scrapping the current bill and starting over. especially since this entire bill was done in secret and was not done with any bipartisan effort.
Secondly, as for demonizing large corporations, we disagree on this one. As we can agree that our healthcare system needs reform, I agree their are greedy corporations out there. This fact does not cause me to be down on large companies in general and looking for the state to take care of everybody---that has proven to be a failure everywhere in the world where a nanny-state has been created. Over the last 25 years, all of Europe produced about 1/17th of the jobs the USA created during that period. Our great company is build on free enterprise and those awful large corporations employ many as well as raising the standards of living of many...
If you want the government to provide universal healthcare, why don't you move to a country that has this value system--funny how the political leaders in Canada faced with life threatening illnesses, come to our country for there healthcare- there are many examples of this. Providing universal healthcare has never been an american value it is a social plank of the democratic party...Let's not forgot that were talking about insurance not the delivery healthcare which is in fact providing for everyone today including illegals.
Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community, on Feb 27, 2010 at 11:00 am
dogmatic? You say that like it is a bad thing. Must be my pro-corporate fascistic tendenies coming out. Silly me, by using your own words, I am trying to clarify your statement. A wasted effort.
Look, there are simple truths here, one is that never in the history of the country has the federal government ever mandated every American to purchase something.
Second one is, GOP has presented a roadmap as they call it, to work our way out of the financial disaster that Medicare is today in America.
In days past, two side of the aisle would get together and forge out legislation to craft a solution to a problem. Whether each one was a good or bad solution is a whole 'nother thing.
Our completely dysfunctional Congress cannot work together on these issues, that much is made clear after this dog and pony on TV the other day. Progressives and libertarians are going to diverge on almost every point, because one side wants the government to take care of everything, and will agree to almost any level of taxation to do it. The other side wants maximum freedom and personal choice and true limited government.
My opinion is the libertarians have the Constitution on their side.
Posted by Wayne, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 27, 2010 at 1:14 pm
If you so are concerned about wasting time why does your side always trying to start over?
Why do conservatives spend so much time framing others American's credentials rather than keeping focus? I personally think it is a compensation issue. You value profit not first building a better society.
As for your beloved corporate America... There is nothing more precious then groups of grownups expounding the virtues of not being accountable for individual actions colluding for profit. Not your fault you're a participant in a profit culture that inevitably sees the value in avoiding people to death.
I believe that it better ensures individual life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness to care for the health of our society. Perhaps you disagree that health care directly relates to ones life expectancy greater than any other factor? You should stop quoting numbers only you are going to believe anyway!
Can you ever make a point without trying to claim you are a better American? How about you try? Once? Please? Would you do it for the sake of the Union.
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 27, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Jim, you said:
"Progressives and libertarians are going to diverge on almost every point, because one side wants the government to take care of everything, and will agree to almost any level of taxation to do it. The other side wants maximum freedom and personal choice and true limited government."
Both are incorrect. Progressives do not want the government to take care of everything, and will not agree to almost any level of taxation, as evidenced by the fact that the propsed HCR is not a government takeover, and that they are not considering straight taxation to cover it. Conservatives, or libertarians as you'd like to frame them here, do not want maximum freedom and personal choice and true limited government, as evidenced by the continued insistence on tort reform (read: federal caps), and the fact that the current health care system does not allow for maximum freedom OR personal choice.
Between that and your comments regarding dogmatism and compromise, you've completely excluded yourself from being a member contributing any kind of quality commentary to this debate.
Posted by Small Businesses are Important, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 27, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Dominic, you wrote:
"...Obama is not and will not consider republican ideas which will require scrapping the current bill and starting over. especially since this entire bill was done in secret and was not done with any bipartisan effort."
You are correct, Obama will not consider THE republican idea of scrapping the entire bill and starting over - because that doesn't make any sense. Again, "our way or no way." Which brings us to your allegations of a lack of bipartisan effort. When one side says no to everything, at some point the other side will move forward without them. That is what has happened here. And the entire bill was NOT done in secret. That is patently untrue. There were no surprises when the language was finalized.
The lack of bipartisanship rests solely with the GOP - they are acting like a bunch of spoiled children.
Posted by Einstein, a member of the Mohr Elementary School community, on Feb 27, 2010 at 4:06 pm Einstein is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Small Businesses are Important,
You should take a look at the polls on the issue and actually I do not even know why you are mentioning the GOP because they were not even needed to pass a bill because of the huge majority the dems had. Obama's real problem is his base and trying to keep the liberals satisfied. I guess judgement day is coming next November and from that point on he will be a lame duck and prove to be even more incompetent in the future than this last year. He has not done one postive thing but I guess getting nothing done is positive compared to the alternative.
Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 27, 2010 at 5:06 pm
I'm sure what you really wanted to write was "he has not done one positive thing that benefits me personally, but..."
The repubs have stood in the way of the bill, had the dems make concessions in the name of bipartisanship and to supposedly win repub votes. Now here we are and the bill sucks and the repubs won't even vote yes on it anyway. I'm having deja vu. Repubs render themselves useless and then complain about the outcome. The biggest idea I heard from them at the conference was to scrap it and start over. The people don't have time to wait while repubs figure out they can't get blood from a turnip.
Posted by Einstein, a member of the Mohr Elementary School community, on Feb 27, 2010 at 6:15 pm Einstein is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
No Janna, I am afraid you are incorrect.........again. I am not looking for a thing to benefit me personally. I have my own insurance policy and have worked hard to pay for it. I do however believe Jimmy Carter Obama is completely incompetent and it becomes more obvious by the day. I do not like the bill and yes do believe it should be started over from scratch. Do a little research and educate yourself. Attached is the Republicans full plan and you can do some research yourself. If I am not mistaken Janna you do not work and are always complaining about free healthcare for yourself and you husband who I believe also does not work. Janna, life is not a free ride so you need to get out there and contribute and not be so a bottom weeder.
Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin, on Feb 27, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Hey Einstein (A misnomer if I ever saw one),
I do work. I am a stay at home mother. I thought conservatives were all about the family and raising good kids? You must be some other kind of conservative if you have a problem with my job.
Your statement about working hard is the same thing I've heard over and over from conservatives. You deserve what you have because apparently you work harder than everyone else. It's like the people who thank god they were saved in a disaster, but it never occurs to them that god didn't save some people. I guess they didn't work hard enough or deserve it. The arrogance in both situations is astounding.
As for my so-called complaints, I may use myself and my family as an example because I happen to be uninsured, but I want universal health-care for all citizens, not just me. I'm not only thinking of myself like repubs do.
Yes, my husband does not work, because he CAN'T FIND A JOB. I'm not yelling, I just want to make you see that because if you've already read about me, then you know that. Nice insinuation attempt though.
I guess you think people wanting affordable access to health care means they must want a free ride. Strange correlation you're trying to make there.
By the way, I don't think Einstein would be pleased to see you using his name. Your political ideologies are counter to his.
Posted by Karen, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 28, 2010 at 12:29 am
All I know is that my helath insurance went up from $530. to $824 a month and my husband's went up from $376 to $674 (I am on Cobra because I have a pre-exixting condition so I have a different policy from my husband). Also, my son's went from $130 to $190 and my daughter's from $119 to $134. they are all on individual policies for a good reason:
A word to the wise.....if your kids are in college, you might want to consider getting them a separate, individual policy while they are still healthy because they will "age off" the family policy at 23. If they have an illness or an accident and can't find a good job with health benefits after graduation (a likely scenario nowadays), then they will not be able to get health insurance. Period. It sucks but it's true. Get them an individual policy while they are still healthy. The system is set up to screw us all over... so be aware.
Posted by Karen, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Feb 28, 2010 at 12:27 pm
People who don't buy health insurance are essentially accepting a form of welfare. Who pays for them when they have a serious accident or cancer or heart bypass? Well....the hospitals and health providers have to eat the loss so they charge the rest of us more for services....everyone who already pays amazingly high premiums and fees for medical care are the ones who pay the costs of others who are basically, on the dole.
I wouldn't shout too loudly about having the "right" not to buy health insurance. Everyone needs to step up to their responsibility of contributing to the system (I am not talking about people with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance). Those who choose not to buy health insurance are really taking advantage of others. Not something to be proud of.
Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community, on Mar 1, 2010 at 12:12 pm
SBAI your reasoning is completely twisted. How is it that Democrats are advocating for personal responsibility?
Democrats are telling voters, support HCR and we will protect you from evil insurance companies. More government regulation is good for all! We would never do something like use price controls on insurance companies to determine whether individuals can obtain expensive treatments. No, that will never happen!
What the GOP ought to be embracing is real fiscal reform. The roadmap Web Link put forth by Rep Paul Ryan is a step towards that.