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Whaddya know? There is a Republican healthcare reform plan?

Original post made by jimf01 on Feb 15, 2010

The party of no? GOP proposal to reform Medicare without cutting benefits to any person over 55 and utilizing the power of the free market system. Predictably, it is trashed by a New York times columnist. The NYT columnist is in turn trashed by TWS.

The plan: Web Link

Competing analyses:

Web Link

Web Link

Comments (32)

Posted by Nate, a resident of Birdland
on Feb 15, 2010 at 12:58 pm

Jimf01 is the same guy that goes to the Danville Weekly website to post his right-wing garbage. A classic troll. Take it easy on the Rush Limbaugh fueled anger, ok Jimf01?


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Feb 15, 2010 at 2:25 pm

nice to see I am getting so well known


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Feb 15, 2010 at 2:29 pm

under the repub. plan, if you loose your teeth, a repub. helps you find them...


Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of Birdland
on Feb 15, 2010 at 4:36 pm

Jim, thanks for posting.

THANK GOD the GOP stood up against the Democrat's socialist government hostile take-over of our healthcare system!

When I discovered that the Democrat plan was designed to wipe out private insurance companies, I knew something SINISTER was going on. Why would "reform" result in wiping out the contract I have with my private insurance company? That is MY PRIVATE PROPERTY!!

The GOP represented me when they said NO to the Government take-over and destruction of our healthcare system under the guise of "reform". It was DEFORM!

Our nation was founded on the ability to stand up and say "no" against intrusive and reckless authority.


Posted by Curious, a resident of Del Prado
on Feb 16, 2010 at 9:49 am

@ Pleasanton Mom - Please indicate where in the proposed healthcare reform bill it was designed to "wipe out" private insurance companies? I cannot find any such references. Instead, I find measures to prevent insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions (like diabetes and even pregnancy). Yes, under the current system, you can be denied coverage by some insurance plans if you have diabetes or are pregnant. There are also measures to help more people afford healthcare which will take pressure off our already extremely burdened emergency services. Emergency Rooms were never meant to be a healthcare safety net for the uninsured.

I will readily admit the proposed plan is not perfect, but it is a great start to fix our broken healthcare system. In the US we pay the most of healthcare, but receive the least care and have worse healthcare metrics like infant mortality than many other 1st and 2nd world countries.

I always ask those that fight so hard against healh insurance reform "if you lost your job and your insurance today, what would you do"? What if you have diabetes or where being treated for cancer? What if your child was sick and required treatment? What would you do? There are not many people, even in affluent Pleasanton, that can afford to purchase a family policy directly without help from an employer.


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Feb 16, 2010 at 10:05 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

"Wiping out" private insurance is opposed by the American people by a huge margin, so it is NOT in current legislation. It cannot even be raised and debated in the Congress amongst Democrats.

Barney Frank says it is the plan here: Web Link

Obama says it is the plan here:
Web Link

And again here:
Web Link

The plan will progress if we return progressive Democrats to power in 2010.


Posted by Hey Sweeties, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 16, 2010 at 10:47 am

All of you so opposed to the HCR bill presented by the Democrats...
ENJOY YOUR RATE HIKES!

God Bless America!


Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of Birdland
on Feb 16, 2010 at 1:07 pm

Curious,

It matters where you get your information. The Mainstream Media is not reporting the truth. How could they since they got involved in a slobbering love affair with Obama during the campaign?

I went to a lot of trouble to locate all these links for you, so I hope you will read them.

The proposed scheme will force private insurance companies out of business, regardless of politicians' rhetoric to the contrary, and it will force doctors to participate in the scheme or not be allowed to practice.
Web Link

California Democrats Move to Wipe Out Private Insurance: The bill, if passed, will also BAN all private health insurance in the state.
Web Link

Huge Marriage Penalty in the Healthcare Bill:
Web Link

Death Panels were passed in the $787 Stimulus Bill: Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research is a "Death Panel" - they are bureaucrats that make decisions about healthcare Rationing:
Web Link

Our healthcare system is NOT broken. The higher infant mortality figures are largely the result of increased use of infertility treatments by women who can afford them.
Web Link

And why no Tort Reform in the Democrat bill? Could this have something to do with the fact that the tort bar has been the largest single contributor to the Democratic Party in recent years?
I had to delete the link, I guess PW has a limit on how many links can be posted.

You're right, legitimate reform should include ways to buy an individual insurance plan if you have a preexisting condition. Employer Group plans already do cover preexisting conditions.

Everything that Liberals/Progressives try to do scares me to death. It is NEVER what they say it is. It IS NEVER good for America. Why do you think they had to BRIBE their own senators into it?

I trust the Republicans to design legitimate heathcare reforms, NOT A HOSTILE GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER, like our car industry.




Posted by Curious, a resident of Del Prado
on Feb 16, 2010 at 4:24 pm

@ PM - You make the claim that "The Mainstream Media is not reporting the truth. How could they since they got involved in a slobbering love affair with Obama during the campaign?" That is not a very good start to a rebuttal of my post. It is a bit biased given that the MSM cuts a pretty broad swath across American media. But the real irony is you then go on to support your claims with links to the American Thinker blog, a far right wing website implicated in an extensive smear campaign of President Obama during the election, advocating the teaching of Intelligent Design in our schools, and also posting about a grand conspiracy involving PG&E and programmable thermostats.

But let's examine your rebuttal points:

Wipe out private insurance - I could not find any reputable, unbiased source that supports this claim. Granted, I have not read the entire reform bill, but I have not been able to locate any section that supports this claim. The American Thinker post does not state what part of the Bill would lead to the collapse of private insurance.

The California bill will never pass. You and I both know that.

Death Panels - One of the many "myths" out there. It has been refutted multiple times. Here is one from the ANA:
Web Link

Infant Mortality - just one of the many metrics where we are ranked low in health care delivery. Again, AT does not cite any evidence for their assertions.

Tort Reform - Tort abuse has been shown to only contribute about 9% to the overall cost of healthcare in our country. Yes, there needs to be reform, but it is not as big an issue as made out by the right wing media.

Liberal programs - why do liberal programs scare you to death? Do you not like clean water, breathable air, safe workplaces, open space and parks, and fire & police services. All these idea and institutions were put into place by Liberals.


Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of Birdland
on Feb 16, 2010 at 5:09 pm

Here's another link regarding the takeover of our healthcare system designed to kill the private insurance market: Granted this refers to HR3200 but this is 100% Democrat designed. Who knows where it stands now...
Web Link

Everybody knows the mainstream media is biased. Period.

American Thinker has hundreds of different authors that contribute articles. If someone discussed teaching intelligent design, then it was probably just one author. That can't be worse than the Liberals dumbing down our children for decades. Just recently, North Carolina State Public Education announced their plan to Eliminate Founding Fathers from History Classes. This is outrageous. American Thinker is publishing stories that the mainstream media won't cover.

Death Panel is not a myth. Did you see the link I posted? It was passed in the $787 Stimulus bill. But it's called Fthe ederal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Democrat healthcare plan is based on the British plan, which most definitely has death panels. Even the Oregon Health Plan has death panel: Web Link

Liberal programs have bankrupted us, driven thousands of businesses out of California, destroyed jobs, and damaged the economy. Liberal policies caused the housing crash. History shows that unemployment does down in a Republican-contolled Senate, and up in a Democrat-controlled Senate. Only raw, unfettered Liberalism could have brought down the 8th largest economy in the world (CA).


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 16, 2010 at 8:29 pm

I keep hearing about how government is taking over health care. How is that when insurance companies will have mandatory customers? If the insurance companies were booted out, I could understand saying that, but the insurance companies will still be making record profits off our illnesses.

I don't know, maybe you think requiring insurance companies to stop denying people with pre-existing conditions is bad, or dropping people because they don't want to pay out for cancer or AIDs. Maybe you just think contributing so your fellow Americans can have access to health care to is bad.

I think you really need to find some reputable sources for news. All this "liberals want to corrupt my kids" crap is ridiculous. It's really too bad you're so naive to believe this stuff.

The only death panels I've seen are the bean counters at insurance companies. My husband had to wait two weeks to get physical therapy after it was prescribed by an orthopedic surgeon after he fell and had some nerve damage in his arm. He couldn't even sit down to drive to work or eat dinner. You think the bean counter at the insurance company cared? Of course not.

Corporate America, the biggest welfare recipient, is not out for your best interests. All they want to do is profit off of your misery. Are you really ok with that?


Posted by Sandra, a resident of Hacienda Gardens
on Feb 16, 2010 at 9:39 pm

Pleasanton Mom, I'm not sure whether you are serious or not, so if your post is a farce forgive me. You do realize that counseling people on end of life decisions (think: "do you want to continue to treat this chronic, painful illness and contend with the side effects, or would you rather stop treatment and live the remainder of your days peacefully?") is not the same as "death panels" - right?


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 17, 2010 at 8:34 am

Sandra,

She is serious. Check out some of the other threads of a political nature. This is what were up against, people who will believe anything their regularly scheduled programming tells them to.

She can't hear you about the death panels. Her brain is impervious to logic.


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Feb 17, 2010 at 10:06 am

You got the triple play there Janna.
1 - Rehash the old arguments in favor of ObamaCare, which have been thoroughly debated in the press (and here) and rejected by the American people. Read the polls.
2 - Trash anyone who would oppose HCR as heartless and cruel to the uninsured. I can give an anecdote as well, about how my BiL is walking around today after a major heart attack, despite the fact that he and his wife are unemployed and uninsured.
3 - Of course, those who oppose HCR are just listening to the FNCHannityLimbaughBeckPalinsFacebook and believe all the lies! Of course, reality is that Pelosi and Reid have only the best interest of the American people in their hearts!

We are moving the debate forward. With the election of Sen Brown in Massachusetts, ObamaCare is DEAD (unless of course they force a reconciliation vote, in which case the Dem majority in Congress is DEAD).

Try to keep up with reality. Interesting to note, no one has offered a rebuttal or criticism of Rep Paul Ryan's plan.


Posted by Pleasanton Mom, a resident of Birdland
on Feb 17, 2010 at 1:03 pm

Janna,

There is no way around the fact that a Single Payer system means Rationing and Death Panels.

A single entity (such as the Government) that allocates health care resources will be forced to decide whether their limited resources should be allocated to the young and healthy or to the old, infirm, incurable, etc. And that organization will decide that certain people aren't worth the investment.

In England, it is illegal for a doctor put put a heart stent in a patient who is older than 59 years old. My grandma got a heart stent at age 75, and she is still doing fantastic today at age 85. She'd be dead if she lived in England. My children have Great-Grandparents because our healthcare is FREE MARKET.

My long time friend told me in her broken English that in Cuba you don't see many people over the age of 70 because their Government-run healthcare denies healthcare until they die.

In the current Democrat Healthcare bill, there are FINES for doctors who provide "more care" than the Government bureaucrat says the patient should get - based on the decision of the Federal Coordinating Council of Comparative Effective Research - which takes the age of the patient, the cost of the treatment, how many more years of "productivity" the patient might have - that's what a Death Panel does. They make decisions about what type, how much, OR IF, you get treatment. Doctors can't offer benefits not covered by the government plans, and patients can't buy extra insurance to make up for many gaps. You can be sure that the best and most technologically-advanced treatment for cancer, for example, will be not be offered on account of the cost. You see, whoever "pays the bills" gets to make the decisions about how the money is spent.

This is why Government-run healthcare is a death sentence to millions of us. If you're old, if you're sick or get sick, if you're disabled, or if you fall low on the "complete life" value scale, YOU'RE SCREWED!

I am personally a cancer survivor only because I was not subject to a Government-run healthplan.

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is Obama's Special Advisor for Health Policy to the Office of Management and Budget. His ideas of healthcare rationing is to greatly restrict many treatments, medicines, and procedures to anyone over 40 and more particularly to anyone over 65. Dr. Emanuel feels similarly about the newly born until they have attained several years of age. It's called "rationing," and it will very likely result in unnecessary and preventable early deaths. On a very large scale. Dr. Emanuel is a member of the President's Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research - the healthcare rationing body.

Dr. Emanuel chastises physicians for thinking only about their patient's needs. Dr. Emanuel's June 2008 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association criticized the Hippocratic Oath as an unwelcome "imperative [for physicians] to do everything for the patient regardless of cost or effect on others".

Another thing you should know is that when Medicare was written into law back in 1965, it contained language that specifically prohibited the government from knowing about, getting involved with, intervening in, having a say in the treatment decisions between doctors and patients. But in the current Democrat healthcare plans, they have stripped that protective language out so that absolutely you have will have a bureaucrat between you and your doctor, and even preventing your doctor from giving the treatment he wants to give you. He must answer to the Government, not you.

I have told you the truth here. I don't have any reason to lie. As a cancer survivor I want to make sure that America keeps FREE MARKET healthcare so we don't end up like England. Healthcare in England is nothing short of a NIGHTMARE. The current Democrat take-over of healthcare is based on England's model.

You accuse me of listening to "regularly scheduled programming", but that is not true. Actually I think that is exactly what you have done. Media Matters calls the Death Panels a myth, but it is clearly not a myth. I have done extensive research into dozens and dozens of sources.










Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 8:52 am

So will you be refusing your Medicare when the time comes and just continue buying your insurance on the FREE MARKET? After all, that's provided and run by the government.

I hope not because in the current nightmare of a system we have now, with your cancer diagnosis, you are uninsurable for the rest of your life.

The FREE MARKET will eventually kill you for profit.


Posted by Arroyo, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 18, 2010 at 8:55 am

A government program to provide a health safety net for our uninsurable citizens - Yes. A helping hand for the unfortunate - Yes. This Democrat sponsored 2700 page "pile of excrement" - No.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 8:59 am

Jim,

I'm not sure what you meant about your BIL.

"I can give an anecdote as well, about how my BiL is walking around today after a major heart attack, despite the fact that he and his wife are unemployed and uninsured."

My husband is unemployed too and we are both uninsured and I'm well aware that the current system will let me die rather than absorb the cost for my care or subject me to substandard care because they already know I can't pay. I don't see how this is good and something to tout.

I guess we're all going to have to agree to disagree on the necessity of reform.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:08 am

Arroyo,

This is exactly the problem! NO ONE should be uninsurable. This idea that these insurance corporations decide to dump people and now the government has to pick up the slack so the corporations profits aren't affected. Where's the outrage about that? People will let corporations trample all over them gladly it seems.

The bill needs to be scrapped anyway after all the obstruction that's made it what it is today, virtually meaningless.


Posted by jimf01, a resident of another community
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:13 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

BiL = brother-in-law

Your statements are false, and make you sound kooky (current system will let me die/FREE MARKET will eventually kill you for profit, and so on) . Numerous stories about denied treatment have been debunked. I have no doubt that people are having their struggles with the insurance companies. It is not a perfect system. A larger number of medicare claims have been denied.
But, as I have said numerous times, your solution is single-payer. Even ObamaCare is throwing the baby out with the bath water. This has all been discussed over and over, thoroughly debated, and as I said, rejected by the American people.
The American people do want reforms. They DO NOT want ObamaCare, DO NOT want single-payer.
Let's start with reasonable reforms that Americans agree are needed. Republicans and Democrats agree, medicare spending is unsustainable. Rep Paul Ryan has presented a new solution, a roadmap to fix the biggest $$$ component in the whole thing.
We are moving the debate forward.


Posted by Arroyo, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:28 am

Janna,

Am I to surmise that you are anti-business, anti-capitalist, and pro-socialized medicine? If not, it sure sounds like it.

Yes, we need to do something about young people who have a child with life-long medical needs. Yes, we need to do something for those who have worked and supported the system throughout their lives lost their insurance coverage. However, what the Democrats have put forth, and the way they went about it, does not warrant the support of the taxpayers.

I've dealt with government agencies all my life, and it's rarely been a pleasant experience. I'll take dealing with a private company any day compared to dealing with a bloated inept government agency. And, that is exactly what the Democrats have tried to implement in their version of "Health Care Reform". A commendable effort, but a failed result.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:24 pm

Arroyo,

No, I am not anti-business, nor anti-capitalist. I will qualify that last statement. I am against businesses and capitalists that run rough-shod over people and treat them like chattel that can be disposed of at anytime. Unfortunately, most of the corporations in the top 500 fit into that category. The socially responsible companies have my support, however.

I am for single-payer. I don't believe that access to affordable health care should depend on your employment or lack thereof. I don't believe that any insurance company should profit of the denial of benefits they supposed to be providing after they take your premiums. I don't believe anyone should ever be denied access to health care by way of a pre-existing condition. I don't believe that they should dig back in our medical records and look for a reason not to cover something our doctors deem necessary. I don't believe an accountant should decide whether or not I should have a medical procedure based on some cost ratio.

The 'too bad' attitude so many seem to have about their fellow man and their well-being in regards to for profit health care has become nauseating.


Posted by Fred, a resident of Country Fair
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:26 pm

Janna just wants everyone to pay her way because she and her husband do not work and therefore want to stay on public assistance forever.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:45 pm

Jim,

I know what BIL means. I was asking how he was able to be treated without insurance or money. Did a hospital absorb the cost or did the state foot the bill? I assume you're saying that there are ways for the poor to be treated.

If you don't believe that people get denied coverage, benefits and treatment all while insured then I don't know what to tell you.

Are you cool with Wellpoint's 39% rate increase to cover those who had to drop it because they could no longer afford the premiums? You want people to continue to buy on the open market, but without any regulation, they'll just keep raping us.

I'm not okay with waiting to find out if I'm going to have coverage from an insurance company in a life or death situation. You can trust them, but I don't.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:53 pm

Fred,

How'd you get that from what I said? If my husband found a job that could pays the bills and support our family of four, he'd take it in a second. More welfare queen crap Fred? Oh yeah, we're living the high life on unemployment. Choosing between eating and paying bills has been the greatest time of my life so far.

Get a clue Fred. If capitalism can't provide jobs for most of the people, then how is it successful? Why should we rely on it to sustain us?


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:58 pm

FYI Freddy,

Not that it's any of your business, but since I've already mentioned it here before, I'll tell you that the only assistance I receive is medical insurance through the state for my two children. My husband collects unemployment, which he has been paying into just like everyone else and is entitled to collect.

Sorry, you can't claim I'm the one sucking you dry. Nice try though.


Posted by Sandra, a resident of Hacienda Gardens
on Feb 19, 2010 at 8:08 am

Janna, thanks for the reality check. Some of these folks are just plain scary given the rhetoric they chose to worship. I'm a social worker in a health care setting and recently had to watch as a 34 year old single mom died after capping her health insurance and virtually impoverishing her entire family (siblings included) who picked up her out of pocket costs. She died of an infection - was reluctant to go to the hospital with her fever as she didn't want to burden her family any more. She likely would have survived the cancer.

I once asked some "Nobama Health Care" pundits about this situation - what should she do to pay for her care...the response: "can't she sell her house or something" (house long gone, obviously). Then: "can't she qualify for Medicaid" = yep, once she was completely impoverished and paid a share of cost since she had some income from the job she was trying to hang on to; but of course her physician didn't take Medicaid so she switched docs and had to travel for treatment causing considerable stress on her job, picking up kids from school, etc. Now the kids don't have a mom, but they will be receiving soc sec benefits until they are adults. It probably would have been cheaper on the government to just provide decent care to this woman and the kids would still have a mom.

If you don't live the experience, it is easy to blame the victim and deny that there but for the grace of God goes you.

Janna, you are a courageous person for hanging in there. I simply don't have the patience to teach remedial humanity.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 19, 2010 at 9:24 am

Thank you for your post Sandra. It's sad that many of the people posting here lack empathy. That is the biggest problem. Until they've had the same experience as someone who is struggling, they will never truly understand and therefore make statements such as "just sell everything you own." I've actually been told something like that on this forum. What kind of messed up system forces people to be completed demoralized by giving up everything they've worked for in exchange for the basic support of life?

Thank you for sharing that story. I can completely understand because I have the same thoughts should I need medical care. Of course children can't understand the money aspect, they just want their mom. Maybe we should have some of these for-profit health care proponents have to explain to a child why mom lacked medical care and died. Maybe if they had to look into the eyes of a sad child and try to explain it, they might get it. It seems like they think anyone who can't pay their own way should just be disposed of. Sick. How man of these people claim to be pro-life?

Loved your last sentence by the way, "remedial humanity." Perfectly apt.


Posted by Arroyo, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 19, 2010 at 9:57 am

Janna,

Thank you for the intelligent, articulate, response to my question of yesterday.

I do not disagree with many of your points. However, I think that you might agree that the Health Reform Bill currently being proposed is not the answer. It will be a nightmare if it is implemented.

I am not against a government health agency as a safety net for the uninsurable, but there has got to be a better way than this 2700 page monstrosity that is currently being proposed.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 19, 2010 at 11:18 am

Arroyo,

The bill definitely needs to be chucked for something simpler. Too many hands stirring the pot is never good. I'm sure there are loop-holes buried all over it that will benefit the corporations at our expense, other than what we've heard about so far.

The amazing part is that we pay double for health-care here compared to other industrialized countries and people are proud of that even though we're the only ones without universal health care. They pay less and cover everyone. Why can't we do that? Because someone might call us a socialist country instead of a capitalistic country and we can't have that, according to the GOP.


Posted by Janna, a resident of Dublin
on Feb 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm

Just a thought in regards to the Constitution and universal health care.

Our Founding Fathers, in all their wisdom, could not have envisioned the necessity for a health care system, nor I would imagine, a society with so many people it cannot support them all. If universal health care is the best way to serve the most people, then we should do it, regardless of some perceived infringement on anyone's 'rights.'

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Without your health, it's all moot. According to the some on this thread, freedom in this country is only defined by how your money is spent by the government.

Contributing to the greater good via taxes, does not mean you are no longer free. What a ridiculous notion!


Posted by Sandra, a resident of Hacienda Gardens
on Feb 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm

I like Stephen Hawking's comment that without the NHS (Great Britain's universal HC system) that he would not be alive. I'm sure it is not a perfect system either, but prescriptions are free for children, pregnant women and senior citizens.

Clearly the current system is broken. I can get onboard with changes needed in the proposed new system, but we can't keep our costs this high to finance the insurance companies executives at the expense of quality, affordable care to the rest of us.


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