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Original post made
by schnorres, Amador Estates,
on Sep 8, 2009
Racism will always be with us. There is no majority any longer in CA - everyone is a minority. Pleasanton is far more diverse than even 10 years ago.
Racism unfortunately will be everywhere...kids learn this from their parents and it will be passed on through generations.
If you feel you are being treated wrongly stand up for yourself, move on and just realize that reality is racist are atleast becoming the minority.........they soon will not have any supporters because diversity is growing.
You don't think that's what's behind the Presidential speech drama?
As always, the left uses the race card to discredit anyone with a dissenting opinion. This tactic is used because they have no ground to stand on regarding addressing the issues being discussed.
It's a cowards refuge, but thanks for bringing it up.....it's like little kids losing an arguement and then starting to insult your mother becasue they have nothing else to say.......
Just like class envy, racism will be around as long as politicians and their minions attempt to use it as a tool to separate people they don't agree with.
The Presidents speech was an issue because it was an unnecessary intrusion on our kids school day and was nothing more than an egomaniac indulging his narcistic needs.
Schnorres, is there a particular incident that you object to? If so, you should contact the principal and/or the superintendent.
SteveP are you disagreeing that there really is no racism that exists between the classes and people of different skin color?
Maybe not so much in the schools here (I'm sure it is currently taking place) but take a look at how students interact with one and other while at school. People hang around students that are similar or the same ethnicity as he/she is. Think about- when segregated schools ended, do you really think African American children ran up to their white counterparts and stated "lets play hopscotch"? I agree with McPleasanton that our town is a lot more diverse than just ten or twenty years ago, but yes, students at our high schools do exclude and divide themselves amongst groups, based on ethnicity.
SteveP; you did a great job of stating my thoughts.
PToWN94566; Of course racism exists. It always will but it is exacerbated by politicians and the likes of Jesse Jackson who promote class and race warfare in order to gain and hold power. I won't speak for SteveP but that is my view.
As far as students not interacting with students of other colors; I could show you groups of white, black, yellow, brown, or red kids who don't interact with others of the same color. I think you are seeing what you want to see to support your belief that students are divided ethnically. I work closely with middle school and high school students in Pleasanton and I haven't seen the racial division you are talking about other than ethnic clubs at the high school.
Kids often find ways to related to one another. I have complete confidence that more and more kids will grow up to become healthy adults and enjoy the world and it inhabitants as it is.
To answer the original poster's question, yes, I think there is racism in the schools, but it's individuals who practice racism, not a behavior supported, tolerated, whatever by the school board, administration, teachers, or the vast majority of students.
I think there is so much more tolerance and acceptance today in the high schools than there was when I attended many years ago. And I agree with Cholo....kids find ways to relate to one another - they focus on what they have in common.
I know a Latina student at Amador who has been treated in a derogatory manner by some office and cafeteria staff members (not all).
I liked you much better when you were funny Cholo. What happened? Your posts used to be so amusing...
I feel an itch comin on...tee hee hee, tee hee hee...
How naive. Of course it still exists. Just listen to closely to Obama's comments and to the comments of his mentors.
Ptown94566 wrote: "but yes, students at our high schools do exclude and divide themselves amongst groups, based on ethnicity."
That isn't really racism though. It is natural that people divide themselves up into groups, self-selecting for traits they identify with. For it to be racism, it involves making judgments based upon group traits, like one group is superior to another based on the group's defining traits. It isn't even limited to race; it could be religion, political affiliation, etc..
yes, the highschools are hiding the fact, but my kids tell me stories about the racism they experience and I completely blame the white adults in Ptown for allowing this. shame on you!
Correction Mary, resident of Avignon neighborhood. "Shame on us", you, as a (race unimportant) adult in Pleasanton, included.
Yes there is. The schools are in denial, but it is real. When brought up to the principal, no followup occurred.
Most of the time this remains hidden, because of the culture of one of the groups to not create a seen and just "accept it". This won't last forever and, just like in the south, everyone will be surprized when there is a response other than accepting second class treatment.
SteveP and RJ agreeing....
What a bunch of hooey stating that President Obama is promoting kids to stay in school and do the right thing as you stated "unnecessary intrusion on our kids school day and was nothing more than an egomaniac indulging his narcistic needs".
I monitored many of my child's classes/homework in the PUSD through his years attending and can recall in my OWN education through the local school system and found MANY unncessary intrusions that demote the education process and continues to be an ongoing frustration to parents let alone to the teachers. A perfect ongoing example, try the kids that did not bother doing their homework, do not engage in class, and don't care one way or the other if the entire class has to sit through review of the same lesson plan as the day prior. The kids that do engage... are thrilled as it's a "free" day. Isn't that AN INTRUSION to your child's day and EDUCATION? Obama is promoting something positive. Be happy we have a president who is Proactive and make a Difference instead of hiding as we had for the past 8 miserable years.
Basic answer to the question is yes, racism still exists and will continue to do so until ALL people can learn to become educated (God forbid!) and coexist. I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Funny how some of you (Steve P, RJ, whomever else) manage to bash President Obama off a simple question by a poster... and you blame the "left" for racism.. or excuse me, "using the race card". How do you know the posters political opinion & why is this a political topic? THAT is ignorance at it's peak and THAT is the uneducated mindset that allows racism to flourish.
The uneducated mindset that allows racism to flourish is best exemplified by this: Web Link
Honestly you can find many examples of racism and "reverse racism" (a misnomer) in the SF Bay Area.
The comment above was my debut and this comment will be my finale. I normally am entertained by the scuffles amongst others... And at this point in time, I won't contribute anymore as I do find as JimF and Michelle stated, the racism continues to florish in a variety of ways and I won't enable it. I hope for a better community and good Health and LIFE Education as we move forward to bettering ourselves and those around us.
it's the institutional racism by Cal's Pres & Chancellor at UC Berkeley as they daily violate prop 209. He says his goal(personal)
is DIVERSITY....typical acadamia 'social-engineering' ignoring middle-class white males. Backlash from that INJUSTICE, will make things worse...NOT BETTER !
....seems EQUAL TREATMENT is juat 'words'.
Racism exists not just in schools but, more concerning, in the media and work force.
Personal example...my son (white and in his 30's) has a job with a huge company whose headquarters are here in Ptown. 5 times he has been passed up on promotions and 2 of those times he was literally told they (the company) had to "meet quota" even though he, BY FAR, qualified more than the other(s). My son's immediate boss had to personally check to see if what was being told to my son was true and he got it verified. How racist is that? Lucky for the company, we raised our children to suck it up and sueing should not be considered.
As for the media. Ever notice how the media almost always identifies blacks as African-American and yet, in the same article whites are id'd as whites? If whites are whites, why aren't blacks black? If blacks are African-Americans (assuming all blacks came from Africa..another issue). then why aren't whites Euro-Americans (assuming all whites came from Europe)?
Just doing a check and balance on behalf of truth.
Is anyone think racism doesn't exit, think again. It's human nature! Someone just blamed the problem on the white adults. I think that person needs to think twice. By thinking there is racism, one is already a racist, him/her-self. If that person is blaming the whites, is he/she already have a chip on his/her shoulder?
No amount of legislation or laws can or will outlaw racism or discrimination. The root of all wars/conflicts are based on religion. I am not blaming on religion either.
I was recently attending a BBQ on the Foothill side of Pleasanton and the neighbor's kids were making comments over the wall. Were they white or yellow or black? I really don't care... the fact that the kids are making the comments show that they are racists. BTW, they were all under the age of 10! Yes, 10!
Instead of fighting back, I played along with them. Guess what, they gave up and when away! The more reaction one has, the more reaction one would get from those 'racist'. If one comes back with comments that they cannot refute, they will no choice but walk away.
So, quit being the purist and think racism can or will go away. This is a two-way street. The fact that "WE" welcome the new administration, "WE" acknowledged that there is racism. Look at Ben Jones - don't you think he is a racist?
'Mom of the Discriminated' it sounds like your son experienced reverse racism.
Someone up above that I only see what I want to see- very far from the truth. People who claim that their children here in the valley hang out with a large group of diverse friends are seeing what they want to see. Take a look at PUSD records of how many white school children we have compared to all other ethnic groups; then go and compare those to schools in Castro Valley, Fremont, Concord, Berkeley etc. Suburbs have always comprised of a majority of white people. For the people who told me that I only see what I want to see, do you think your child would last one day at a school where white is not the majority, but rather a minority? Michele's statement of becoming educated and learning to coexist couldn't come any closer to the truth.
Reply to gik
Too bad you choose to turn away from comments and thoughts you don't agree with rather than participate and add to the diversity of thought. Of course, since your last post was your finale, you probably won't see this. Such is life.
"For the people who told me that I only see what I want to see, do you think your child would last one day at a school where white is not the majority"
What you wrote seems frightening to me. My children are not white. Do I think they would "last one day at a school where white is not the majority"? Sure, they would likely last the entire school year. What on earth kind of a question are you asking?
Just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist. I do think the situation is improving.
Ken and et al,
Bring it. Clearly, you did not read my last message correctly as I stated that I would not contribute anymore - I took the moment and recognized and realized my focus on my comments were more Politically and Educationally driven rather than what the original topic was about - and that's the continued Racism that happens in our world and in Pleasanton. If you want to continue, I would enjoy reading it and the "diversity".
So Ken... By all means.... BRING IT!!!!!!!! :-)
Its perfectly o.k. to bring politics into a forum, but this current president doesn't have much to do with the topic posted. go back and read
"What you wrote seems frightening to me. My children are not white. Do I think they would "last one day at a school where white is not the majority"? Sure, they would likely last the entire school year. What on earth kind of a question are you asking?"
The question is stating that people, mainly white people, move to the suburbs because it is safe, quiet, have better schools, etc. Also, they have the funds available to support a move. It may be a nasty thing to state, but statistics don't lie about what ethnicity is the majority in town such as Pleasanton, which is white. I went to schools in this town from the late '80's through the early 2000's. In all my years, there was a very small handful of African Americans, Asians, and Hispanics. The block that I grew up on, which my parents still live on, has one African American family. Go to neighborhoods in places like Castro Valley, Hayward, Fremont, and people would see that it is much more diverse than here. Places like our town are great to raise families, but at the same time we are supporting racism by separating ourselves from. It's the exact same thing that happened when school segregation ended- majority of people moved to the suburbs while anyone else that wasn't white pretty much remained where they were.
Go look up this information- my credential classes have been discussing this issue. Go to the library and look up the book "Those Who Can, Teach" by Ryan/Cooper. You'll quite a bit about minorities, the way students segregate themselves during lunch time, recess, after school etc. If racism doesn't exist in our town, then why is it that not to long ago when I was going to high school here, I remember African American students sitting at a few tables during lunch, Asians at another, and the majority of white students taking up the rest?
ptown94566 wrote: "I remember African American students sitting at a few tables during lunch, Asians at another, and the majority of white students taking up the rest"
And the Baptists were sitting in a classroom doing Bible study, the band geeks were all huddled at their own table, the outcasts were usually off campus, drama club was in their own area, the goths were sitting against the wall in the shade, etc..
I'm not suggesting that racism doesn't exist, only that I just don't see how your observation from high school is evidence of racism. To me it is evidence of group self-selection, which I think is oftentimes confused with racism. For it to be racism, there must be a disadvantaging of one group for another because of race.
gik and Michelle; interesting that you both state that SteveP and I brought Obama and liberals into this. Better read our posts again.
I claim that "politicians" use racism to their advantage as well as "the likes of Jesse Jackson". If you'd like to debate the issue with facts go right ahead.
My belief; racism is used as a tool and it will always exist. I also believe that people divide themselves into groups even within their own race...do you associate with eveyone that is the same color as you?
Yes, racism exists in PSUD and the PD practice racial profiling - especially at the no turn on left at Safeway between 4:30pm and whatever.
As my dad said, everyone has prejudices. The trick is to recognize your preconceived ideas, address and live a full diverse life. Prejudice might not just be race, it could be how much someone makes (or appears to make), body piercings, how "intellectual" someone is, etc.
As for PSUD, at summer school at Donlon my daughter (in the USA for 1+ yr) was called a "stupid Chinese" because she asked what a boy was eating & when he replied "string cheese", she asked "what's that?" Her friend told the boy, "you're the stupid one, she's not even Chinese!" I had not heard of "string cheese" but when she decribed it, I said "oh, that's mozzarella." She knew what that was - ours just comes in large balls for homemade lasagne, etc.
At Alisal she was pushed against a trash can by a bully - probably the only kid in the class smaller than him - and called "stupid Asian".
She refuses to talk about race at AVHS. Both she and her brother hate being lumped as Asians - although they are proud of their country. They don't want to be considered "geeks" or people who want to play video games 24/7 or be thought of as 4.0+ students - son has struggled with English and all subjects and she's a good student by not a 4.0. Our kids are 100% one ethnic group from their country. We also have friends whose kids graduated at AVHS. The girl said she was never considered Asian enough or Chinese because she didn't speak Chinese. I have adult friends who have said something similar and that was the case with the Chinese Association at the University of Kentucky in the 80s.
I substituted at Foothill a number of years ago. They had "diversity" talks. Although the dance had similar ethnic groups sticking together, the speakers didn't consider it racist (the speakers were mixed race - one had a bit of every race), but said the school cancelled the next dance because of "racial issues." I have no idea if such a week is back at Foothill and if such a dance has been reinstated.
I've been trying to teach my kids what to do when confronted with racism, promote self-esteem and support them the best I can. I've been told since I'm white I can't understand racism. Perhaps not, but I do understand prejudice. I've been confronted by someone flaying his hands towards my head - stopped by his buddies on either side - and this fellow was calling me a "****** Yank!" Thankfully, he was the exception to where I was living but that year I started university and also came across lots in my first semester. I moved on to find other people who became friends.
In Cupertino and Palo Alto, whites are not a majority, and they have better schools than Pleasanton.
I agreed with you and I realized it wasn't the topic at hand and thought to drop it.... however, Ken stated:
"Too bad you choose to turn away from comments and thoughts you don't agree with rather than participate and add to the diversity of thought. Of course, since your last post was your finale, you probably won't see this. Such is life."
Which... I haven't seen a reply back from him and let us know his diversity and opinions after I asked him to indulge or Bring it! I am surprised that Ken hasn't said a word on this given the challenging end comment from him "such is life".
What happened to you Ken?
Stacey your definition of racism differs greatly from mine: "For it to be racism, there must be a disadvantaging of one group for another because of race."
I learned that racism is a way people treat one and other, basing their thoughts/beliefs/actions/behaviors off of what another persons skin color may be, their class etc. (categorizing people, thus creating the Other). A person doesn't have to speak words for them to be displaying racism. Students, or any person for that matter, that group themselves with people of the same ethnicity for 'X' purpose are behaving in a discriminatory way- a root of racism.
Cupertino- not all places are going to fit into the mold that came out of history. However, I beg to differ on your statement about Cupertino not being white. I found numerous sites that claim the 2000 census shows that their town is at least 50% white (some 48.9 others, 49). There is either a majority in this town or almost a majority- the numbers are still high. As for Palo Alto, the number of white was even high, with approxiately 75% being white citizens. Try Berkeley, East Oakland, North Richmond.
Some people's comments on here have made me think a lot about this topic. I'm shocked that some of the comments come off as if racism doesn't exist, it's all in our heads, we only see what we want to see etc. How is it that people can still think this when just a few weeks ago a taxi driver was attacked here in our town. Maybe they don't live in Pleasanton, but these people still come from areas similar to ours.
God gave us the ability to see color and to differentiate and form groups. Why is that considered racist? The act of categorizing, recognizing patterns, and self-organizing is built into the human brain (whether you believe that comes from God or not). Language is another example of a self-organizing system built into the human brain. It is the judgments we make based upon that that become a root of evil (as you say, the way people treat one another, it is no different from my definition), not the act of categorizing itself. Both Jesus and the Buddha teach us not to be judgmental, but to be judicious. There's a right and a wrong, but there's no "I'm superior to another because of my skin color".
Children learn from our leaders. A Supreme Court Justice believes that "a Latina" can make better decisions than can a "White Man" - apparently only based on skin color and sex. The President supports ACORN, an orginization devoted to promoting agendas based on skin color.
Good discussions here and a wide 'diversity' of opinions. After having read all of the above comments, it's apparent that racism exists, here and everywhere different races intersect.
The one thing I refuse to do is to be made to feel guilty that I'm white (Euro-American for those who refuse to label themselves as American first). I live in Pleasanton because it is safe and the demographics have a lot to do with it. Having in grown up right next to the Oakland border, I can appreciate the quality of life in Pleasanton all the more....
I also had nothing to do with past injustices (real or perceived) to any racial group, so no hand-wringing is necessary on my part.
Many of you can indulge this mindset as you seek to cower to other races so they'll accept you into their world. Or, you can just live your life and treat people as individuals, as you'd like to be treated.
No more hyphenated-Americans. Assimilate rather than segregate.
RJ - I did read both yours and SteveP's points again, and my point was proven... again. So thanks for that.
I can agree that racism CAN be used as a tool. However that is simply not the case ALL the time. And to answer your question - my group of friends is diverse, although mostly the same nationality as me (Latina). My son, for example, "flocks" to those that look like him (he's Latino and has dark skin). Neither myself or my husband have influenced his choice of friends, (we don't tell him who he needs to hang out or play with). But his friends just happen to look similar to him. We experienced racism in our last school district (this was 5, almost 6 years ago - school ASSUMED he didn't speak english because he was shy & didn't talk "as much as they'd like" and put him in an ESL class because they "assumed he didn't speak english". We DONT speak spanish in our home!!) It was frustrating and brought back memories for me. However I don't teach preference or color in my home to my children. There are others in society who will say things to him as he gets older, I have no doubt about that. However I will address that when/if it happens. I want my children to just be happy people.
I also thought I'd point out that this school that did this to my child (put him in ESL) did not contact me before making that decision and (no joke!) the principal told me the reason why she didn't call me was because she assumed WE didn't speak the language either and were being "proactive" in my childs language. My child spoke perfectly!
Stacey I agree with you that "God gave us the ability to see color and to differentiate and form groups." However, it's the way that humans use this ability to form their own groups. We don't necessarily form groups because "that person seems like a fun person to hang out with." A few posts stated they had nothing to do with past injustices, use to live on the boarders of Oakland, moved to Pleasanton because it is safe. This is the exact same mindset that people had when segregated schools were 'desegregated'. The people that felt that certain areas were unsafe mainly came from Caucasian background. People differentiate themselves from others based many times on the factor of fear.
I also, 100% agree with you that people are not superior over others- yet this exists. If it didn't exist, why was the taxi man beaten?
Sorry, my best friends kids live in Cupertino and the kids at scholl call his daughter "blue eyes" as she is ONE of TWO Caucsasion in her class.
"Cupertino- not all places are going to fit into the mold that came out of history. However, I beg to differ on your statement about Cupertino not being white. I found numerous sites that claim the 2000 census shows that their town is at least 50% white (some 48.9 others, 49). There is either a majority in this town or almost a majority- the numbers are still high. As for Palo Alto, the number of white was even high, with approxiately 75% being white citizens. Try Berkeley, East Oakland, North Richmond."
ptown wrote: "However, it's the way that humans use this ability to form their own groups. We don't necessarily form groups because "that person seems like a fun person to hang out with.""
But how is that racist? Is it wrong for people to freely form groups because "that person has the same skin color as me" and why? Is it any different from forming a group because "that person is the same religion as me" or "that person likes history like me" or "that person speaks the same language as me" or even "that person is the same sexual orientation as me"?
I believe part of the reason why we still have racism in our society is due to trying to force people to deny nature. Instead of attacking the tendency to be judgmental about differences, we attack the natural self-selection process. It is the self-selection process that lead to all these differences in the first place.
I'm still puzzled by your reponse that my post proves your point.
As for your son being placed in ESL without your approval; that sounds like the actions of idiots and not sure that you can draw the conclusion that racism is involved (would it be racist to assume that a person who appears to be Latino and doesn't speak English speaks Spanish?).
Some on this post would say that your son hanging around with other kids who look like him makes him a racist. I do not agree and that and was the point of my original post.
Ptown said: "A few posts stated they had nothing to do with past injustices, use to live on the boarders of Oakland, moved to Pleasanton because it is safe. This is the exact same mindset that people had when segregated schools were 'desegregated'.The people that felt that certain areas were unsafe mainly came from Caucasian background. People differentiate themselves from others based many times on the factor of fear."
So, my question is, "Why should my decision to protect me and my family racist or segregationist?"
We removed ourselves from an unsafe area that is not conducive to raising a healthy family. And how is that a bad thing....because this 'white' neighborhood happens to be one of the safest in the East Bay? Again, I make no apologies. You carry your guilt around on your sleeve, but don't assume you can pass judgement on others whose hearts don't bleed for those who choose to lie in the bed they made.
SteveP I haven't said one thing about being guilty but I know how to admit why my parents choose to raise their children in this town. Your own statements prove to myself of why racism exists: because this 'white' neighborhood happens to be one of the safest in the East Bay.
I'm guessing that you would label a street in Oakland as a black neighborhood, or a street in San Francisco as an Asian neighborhood.
Stacey I believe that it is never wrong for people to form groups, except when it involves basing membership on skin color, ethnicity- basically their background.
Cal2008, Caucasion (by the way really?!? thats the name you chose?!?) the topic is posted at the top of the page, its not that hard to saty with it.
Ptown: Is there a Chinatown in S.F.? ('a street in SF as an Asian neighborhood')
What was your point anyway? Are you saying your parents are racist becasue they live in Pleasanton? If so, then by your measure we're all racists.
Oh well....get used to it and move on.
I'm grateful that there are ESL classes for some children. It's easy to assume that some kids don't speak English and they get placed in an ESL class. I don't think it's a good enough reason to charge anybody with racism when honest mistakes are made. I think that the situation can be easily corrected and the problem solved without fuss.
The US has come a long way to help children from all over the planet in its schools. It's not a perfect system but I now several kids and families from other countries who have attended American schools and they
ALL eventually learned to speak English thanks to good teachers and in some cases, an ESL program. Their families and the children are extremely grateful for having received an American education. There is even an Astronaut who is in outer space and he and his family started out as migrant farm workers.
Despite a history of racism in this country, the situation is changing for the better. I can only believe that it will improve more over time.
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