Street Preachers Alter Weekend R & R Around Town, posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 9:50 am
This topic has been discussed before, but not in recent months. A group of street preachers go into the different towns and on college campuses to preach LOUDLY to the public. So loud, in fact, that our conversations can no longer be held and heard between one another. This past Saturday and on recent Saturdays they've joined in the fun during market time. Only they take away the fun with their oppressive style. The Police Dept. received many calls and visits from distressed residents and came to the scene to observe the cacaphony. Parents whisked away their small children. Some seniors were seen leaving the otherwise comfortable environs of the cafes.
They rarely actually engage in discourse, preferring instead to yell out their message in long barrages so as not to allow interruptions. It is clearly a NUISANCE and PUBLIC DISTURBANCE, although some are able to relax into the moment and smile at the unusual entertainment. Oft times it is our teens or protective moms who become engaged with them, trying to insert some form of reason, to no avail.
Problem: From Lafayette, Orinda, Danville to Pleasanton, the PD and City Councils face a conundrum. Protect the citizens right to PEACE and their freedom from oppression, yet allow this group to operate within their first amendment rights. In the meantime, downtown businesses are becoming affected as residents give up the verbal onslaught and head out.
Mission: It appears that this group wishes to be assaulted by individuals or arrested by the PD in order to then make a legal case with which to SUE. This is repeated on many videos from their website.
Solution: The City Council should designate an area for free speach by groups or individuals. They should research this ongoing situation, speak with the other towns and PDs, receive legal counsel and come up with a plan that can meet the needs of both groups/individuals.
Warning: They do record everything during their preaching and interactions. They do post to their website and to youtube. One of the few town videos on youtube is of pleasanton, though it is innocuous. Can't imagine having my kids included on a website without my knowledge.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 7, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I am not offended by the presence of the Street Preachers. It's good common sense to leave if you have difficulty tolerating their presence. I haven't heard any reports of residents being physically assaulted or emotionally harmed by what they hear. Many parents have made it clear that they do not want their children to hear President Obama's speech. It's there right to prevent their children from listening. If there are parents who do not want their children to hear what the street preachers have to say, then remove your children. There is no need for children to listen to what the Street Preachers say.
It's not my understanding that Street Preachers intend to engage in discourse. They are not violating any laws by not engaging in what you refer to as discourse. What laws are being violated?
There are various factors that impact a business and I've never heard that the presence of street preachers have driven anybody out of business. Where is the proof?
I do not believe that the Street Preachers wish to be assaulted. It makes sense to record any event just in case they are assaulted, then they can take legal action and present the proof in a court of law. Physical assault is not a frivolous matter and people need to pay attention to what is happening in their environment. A video camera can provide concrete evidence of problems resulting from assault.
In my opinion, a city council does not have a right to deny American citizens their right to FREE SPEECH.
How have you come to believe that you and your children are not in somebody's website without your knowledge?
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Apparently, as usual, you've missed the point, cholo. My inquiries are as to whether other's have the RIGHT to assemble in peace without being yelled at to the point where they can no longer ENJOY their environment, HEAR one another, or find APPROPRIATE conversation presented (which would not include the topic of masturbation)in front of minors...in public.
I am an avid proponent of free speech, but somewhere along the way, it seemed appropriate that it must not infringe on others. This is my query, here. WE ALL do, after all, have rights.
Cholo, common sense includes common courtesy. That courtesy is lacking in this situation. One should never impose oneself or group on another to the point of causing others to need to leave in order to continue to share a coffee and talk.
It's just old fashioned decency. And I guess I thought it might be an equal protection somewhere in the law.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 7, 2009 at 5:01 pm
The Constitution of the United States guarantees the RIGHT to assemble as well as the right to say no to a situation that one doesn't appreciate and to disperse. There are special circumstances under which freedom of speech has limitations. From what you have presented, I see no reason to limit the constitutional rights of any of the Street Preachers or others present. Those that didn't appreciate what was being said split. Is that correct?
Saying the "M" word does not violate the California Penal Code (no pun intended). If it does, please provide a specific citation so that I may better understand your point.
It's my understanding that the Street Preachers are shouting out as they are instructed in their HOLY BIBLE. You may have a different interpretation of what that BIBLE instructs and that is what makes America great. VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!
Common courtesy is a value judgement and whether it is lacking at times does not mean that the sky is falling. It does not have to become a crisis and as you know, calmer minds prevail. Your perception of what "seemed" appropriate was of no concern to the police and that is why they left and allowed the frisky happening to continue. I don't know what you mean by "decency" or "old fashioned"? Please explain as I know of no law that stresses that anybody must behavior in a decent or "old fashioned" manner? All one need do is review the posts on this blog to understand that there so few Plutonians concerned about "decency" or behaving in an "old fashioned" manner that it's laughable!
FYI: I DON'T DRINK COFFEE! However, there is a saying in 12-step meetings that goes something like this; If you can't live and you can't die, make coffee!
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm mac is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
You're right Stacey. In fact, they were asked to park elsewhere because the noise they made did in fact cause a 'nuisance'. Interesting, huh? So they moved on to another area. Some are held to a different standard or law?!?
I did hear that a leaf blower was used in the past as an acceptable form of 'white noise' during the preachers' yelling. It helped to counteract the harranging. Some have mentioned air horns.
For the only choice to be that people must leave, as cholo suggests, seems unacceptable. Again, don't those wanting a relaxing respite downtown have rights to that, too? Freedom FROM others shoving their views down your throat? Freedom FROM disturbances and nuisances?
Maybe someone with a legal mind will come along and share a more learned perspective. And a more pragmatic one. I want them to have their rights...I just want mine, too.
p.s. As for businesses, two of them commented that they are affected when people must choose to walk away rather than submit to the unpleasant din in the background.
Otherwise, and fortunately, Pleasanton is as usual drawing record crowds of happy people who wish to share in the delights of the great downtown and out-of-doors and the fresh produce brought to town by our famed growers!
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 7, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Read the link re: 24 yr. old Street Preacher wins lawsuit! The city failed to deprive the Street Preacher of his right to Free Speech! Residents are FREE to leave a noisy place. If you choose to remain, so be it, it's your right to hang out. Sorry mac, your desire to strip American citizens of their Constitutional right to Free Speech doesn't fly.
What businesses report is "hearsay". Can you prove your unsubstantiated claim?
I think that a significant issue that you can do something about is the filth that remains after all the sweet folks have retired for the day. The Plutonian gathering has created a public health hazard by leaving the street a FILTHY mess. Does that even concern you?
Yup...the Constitution of the United States wins again! Steady heads prevail! VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!
Posted by PToWN94566, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 7:33 pm PToWN94566 is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
I'm sure there is some legal code about loitering, especially since this took place during a farmers market or on a street corner near businesses. If a business feels that they are loosing customers because of people preaching on the corner, they could call the Pleasanton PD and file a report. I have a feeling too, that if an officer stood and observed these people long enough, they find some sort of harassment going on as well- which is illegal.
If people want to preach about something, like religion, they should go walk up down the cross walks at some other intersection (like Hopyard and Valley). Having these people in downtown when families with children are present is a huge nuisance. If the people are simply talking about God and being saved, that's one. But from what I've read on here the preachers tell people their are going to hell, that their children are homosexuals or going to become one- basically disturbing the peace. Maybe there is some other group of people that need to stand near them that are have a complete opposite view of theirs; something more positive.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 10:48 pm
BINGO! Cholo, thank you for hitting on my point in the beginning of this MISSION set forth in this topic. It appears that arrest is one of the desires of the preachers since lawsuits and awards are in the picture for them. It may be their source of income. They hit up public universities and wealthy communities with deep pockets, or so it would seem. :) ahhh...now you are making sense.
However, you still don't seem to grasp that others have rights, too, against public nuisances and civil disturbances. Where is that line drawn? So I ask it not of you. You've made your limitations known, as are mine.
I'd have to agree with you, "Send them packing". It's just logical and the law is logical. Clearly, everyone has rights; both sides. It cannot be so that some people have the right to harrass others through the free speech amendment without some limitations. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The word is that some communities have set up specific areas for unlimited free speech to occur, while other communities don't want to waste the time or money on this occasional nuisance. Orinda took a stand. Apparently San Ramon/Danville did, too. Need to look for the data.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Turns out the 8th US Circuit Court of Appeals found that there ARE limitations on free speech, so it isn't just an all-out-do-as-you-like-and-get-in-everyone's-face-yelling-all-the-while-and-disturbing the-peace-sort-of-freedom-that-cholo-supports.
It's beginning to look like there is an ulterior motive going on, and that would be a real shame. Jesus would be crying!
Posted by McPleasanton, a resident of the Ruby Hill neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Our taxes support the events taking place downtown, including farmers market. The freedom of speech can only be taken so far when, as others have stated, they in turn limit your ability to communicate effectively with someone sitting 2 feet in front of you.
Cholo - can I have your home address so I can show up with a bullhorn this weekend and yell at you that you are a sinner.
If concensus can be achieved among businesses downtown and the city I really do feel the solution is some nice relaxing music turned up just high enough to drown out these zealots.
Also, is it not a crime to be spit upon my a madman yelling in my face? In this age with H1N1 this should be considered a crime.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 8:13 am
Jerry of Oak Hill says "I'd wager there isn't an attorney in town that would touch these people's behavior witha ten foot pole unless they got physical..."
Jerry - you are spot on. No lawywers, not our city council, our PD, no one is going to touch it. It's a legal quagmire. Even if it is winnable (it has both won and lost in past court situations around the country) there are costs involved. No one has the guts to stand up for the average joe anymore. The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group is mightily prepped with attorneys. Many believe this whole scenario is merely a source of income for these groups and their attorneys.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 8, 2009 at 8:34 am
Lets be patient and see if limitations will be imposed upon US citizens for engaging in their Constitutional Right to Assembly and to practice their Religion. I strongly believe that Street Preachers have a right to preach at Farmer's Market.
Please prove your unsubstantiated claim that Plutonian businesses have suffered losses due to the presence of Street Preachers. Also, offer some reasonable response to what the Bible suggests re: shouting out. What's so bad about preaching the word of G_d? Nobody has provided proof that they or their children have been harmed. Also, if some people can kick back and enjoy the festivities, how come you can't?
I do not believe that anybody wants or desires to be assaulted. Can you provide evidence that these particular human beings want to be harmed? Where is the proof that somebody spit in your face and that that human being is a "madman". All this name calling is just that, name calling. Give it a rest! I can't imagine anybody desiring that a nice senior citizen like myself spend time worrying about "issues"? I guess I have different VALUES. Try taking the HIGH ROAD sometime, you might be happier!
Incidentally, the Police are NOT stupid and that's why no arrests were made. They understand that ALL Americans have certain rights and that's why they held back and made no arrests.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 8:59 am
Again, it is about decency and treating each other with respect. Surely Jesus wanted that. The treatment by the preachers is in no way respectful.
It is a pleasure to see their passion, truly. For about 5 minutes. But it is their passion. I share my passion in the Place of my choosing on the Day of my choosing at the Time of my choosing (which really is pre-chosen when you think about it - I'm just a puppet!) with the People of my choosing AND in a far more civilized and appropriate way that affects no one else that doesn't want to be affected.
It seems *that* is the high road.
How can we all have our needs AND rights met? Again...I know there are rights on BOTH sides.
I have the RIGHT to enjoy public space without harrassment, intentional interruptions, and the din in the background (actually afront in the foreground!) about a weakened man's issues with masturbation over his lust for women.
Posted by what a surprise, a member of the Valley View Elementary School community, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:10 am
Trolo - What a surprise that you would side with a group of uninformed, loud, uninvited jackasses that try to shout everybody down and insert as much discomfort and irritation into the discussion as possible. How odd.
Posted by send them packing, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:16 am
Police haven't arrested them yet, because they are taking their time to do it right. The city of Pleasanton is also looking at the proper ordinances to apply here. I can't stand on a sidewalk in a residential area at 1 AM at shout. It is not protected speech. It is disturbing the peace. It is a nuisance.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:17 am
What's so odd about supporting the Constitutional Right of Americans to Assemble and to practice their Religion? I'm a strong supporter of the Constitution of the United States...VIVA! VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!
Some folks have been inviting people downtown and when they show up, you call them names? That's what I call ODD
Los Angeles made the same mistake by inviting everybody on the planet to visit and sure enough, a large party of Mexicans showed up with smiles on their faces and everybody got mad? Odd indeed!
Posted by Qwerty, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:21 am
I've seen them downtown before. I put them in the same group as the harley riders. do they have a right to hang out and do what they want? Yeah, but I think they make too much noise. Where do you draw the line? I don't know if anyone has the answer to that question which is probably why they are all still here.
I don't like sitting downtown and having my day disturbed by the sound of motorcycle engines revving. Sometimes those things are so loud as to make it sound like a jet engine plane were passing overhead. I wouldn't mind the riders if they'd keep the noise down. They can start their engines without making as much noise. Same thing with the preachers. If they have a constitutional right to gather, that's fine, but I wish they wouldn't yell and scream to the point where I feel I can't enjoy a nice meal outside.
Posted by shocking, a member of the Valley View Elementary School community, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:22 am
Shocking that such a troll would miss the point as always. Nobody wants you here, yet you still stick around and feebly try to engage people in ham-handed, moronic discourse. You're one of those people we.
encierrados por favor, los adultos están hablando.
Posted by resident, a resident of the Golden Eagle neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 9:32 am
A Pleasanton police officer told me that unless someone is making a personal threat to someone and unless there is evidence that they can follow through on this threat, PPD can do nothing because we do have Freedom of Speech.
For example: One of the preachers says "You will go to Hell!"
Even though this sounds like a threat, the preacher can not actually send someone to hell, therefore PPD can not act on this threat.
Not that I am supporting anything that those crazies do down at the Farmers Market, I find them annoying actually. But, here is what one police officer told me.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 8, 2009 at 10:03 am
I support FREE SPEECH in this great country! VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!
NOBODY has presented PROOF that the Street Preachers have violated any laws. There is no proof that they have harmed adults or children. I didn't know that so many of you are way high strung! Please find a way to CHILL or you many not reach your senior years; YES, the Golden Age!
Even Juby is out of control today? Odd! Hmmmmmmmm...get a grip!
Many Americans have DIED IN IRAQ so that ALL Americans have the right to Free Speech. I find it unusual that so many Americans want to deprive Christians of their Rght to
Assembly and to practice their Religion. How come?
How can I agree with my fellow Americans who are so intent upon depriving others?
Posted by McPleasanton, a resident of the Vineyard Hills neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 10:13 am
This argument seems very similar to the second hand smoking issue. Yes, clearly every American has the right to smoke (speaking of god, not sure why in God's name you would), but when individual smokers rights affected the general publics right to lead a clean and healthy lifestyle there were laws passed in CA. Pleasanton also passed ordinances regarding smoking near public entrances.
Posted by resident, a resident of the Mission Park neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 11:28 am
This seems simple - there is a noise limit in the Pleasanton Municipal code - the police could monitor this with a sound level meter and then cite and fine for violations. It doesn't have to touch the issue of free speech.
From the Pleasanton Municipal code...
9.04.060 Noise limits—Public property.
B. Commercial Area. No person shall produce or allow to be produced by any machine, animal, device, or any combination of the same, on public property in any commercial area, a noise level in excess of 70 dBA at a distance of 25 feet or more from the noise source or sources, unless otherwise provided in this chapter.
Posted by Fault Disney, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 12:03 pm
As much as I'd like to break the jaws of each of these brainwashed, confused, and insecure "preachers" for wrongfully judging us (which, by the way, is a total contradiction to the creed of which they "preach"...Only god shall judge), I can't, and I respect their choice to practice their rights to free speech. Oh, the power of free speech! Just look at what it can do.
Cholo, you're speaking like a true American! I respect and agree with everything you've said thus far. It's sad, that of the dozen or so folks speaking on this topic, there are only a couple of us that recognize and want to uphold one of our most cherished rights.
Mac, why not embrace the actions (not necessarily their beliefs) of the "preachers" and TEACH your children what it is EXACTLY they're doing down there at the market. It's a GREAT EXAMPLE of FREE SPEECH that these jerks are exhibiting downtown. In fact, it's a great example of MANY THINGS: prejudice, insecurity, faith, opposition, humiliation, pride, conflict, law, assemblage, etc.. It's not only a great opportunity to teach your children about a most prized birth-right (free speech) but an opportunity to teach them of all the other vices, philosophies, and ideals mentioned above.
The actions of these preachers transcend the actual garbage they are barking. Think about it.
Posted by Fault Disney, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Oh man! You're really making the comparison of what the preachers intentions are and that of second-hand smoke are one-and-the-same? Come on! Clearly one of the two presents scientific data (proof) that known bi-products are physically hazardous to life. I don't need to tell you which one, do I? Do the preachers irritate your eyes and bronchials?
You should consider retracting that ridiculous comment!
Posted by McPleasanton, a resident of the Vineyard Hills neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Fault Disney - good comment. Agreed, I should take it as an opportunity to teach my kids about free speech - agreed.
No, the preachers don't irritate my eyes or bronchials, but they do irritate my mental well being. Is there no protection for an individuals mental health?
Are you saying the government (yes, that dreaded entity we all fear, but rely on to keep peace and order) was incorrect to regulate the tobacco companies first amendment right to free speech when they knowingly lied about the harmful affects of tobacco or when advertising to minors?
Am I not asking my local government to provide me similar protections against these zealots?
Posted by Claudette McDermott, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 2:34 pm
"Fault Disney" all these deranged people are doing is teaching those how to abuse the law. We need to outsmart these Wolf in Sheep Clothing. We need to get in their faces with our own signs :) Big and stand in front of them. No need to yell over them... just become larger than they are. I interrupted their video taping by getting in the way, walking back and forth in front of the camera so much the guy got irritated and moved to the other corner. I also answered his questions, smiling like him and saying because he has chosen to judge he must be the Anti Christ and I will pray for him. He got red faced and his for head vain popped out. It was funny. We need to get in THEIR way, lawfully of course.
Posted by Qwerty, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I disagree with the comment about getting in their face and disturbing their videotaping. While it may irritate some of the "preachers", it may actually play into what some of the others want, i.e. a confrontation. Although I don't like it when excessive noise disturbs a nice downtown experience, I think it's better to ignore them. It's like a child who does naughty things to get attention. If you play into their bad behavior, the kid will learn to misbehave to continue getting attention. I've run into more than a few people who seem to thrive on controversy. The best way to deal with those folks is to say "I'm so sorry you seem upset..." then change the topic.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Fault Disney, Thanks but no thanks. I've taught my children much about our freedoms and our schools have taught them overload about the rights and wrongs of our system. They are grown and independent thinkers...in fact great thinkers. They would NEVER impose their thoughts and opinions so forcefully on others. Now THAT's character!
Gosh, they make me proud! :)
You think it is a great example of MANY THINGS: prejudice, insecurity, faith, opposition, humiliation, pride, conflict, law, assemblage, etc..
Well, you are an interesting one, to say the least. There is no insecurity or humiliation in them. This is not an altruistic venture. Do a bit of googling and you'll see their goals...to instigate and possible secure reactions that will lead to lawsuits. How religious is that?!?
You misinformed and misled people are sad.
As of today, though, I have changed, because I will bear through it until are gone. They are simply not worth the effort. Our lovely town and PD and people shouldn't have to cough up the money they seek because of our weariness over their tiresome ranting. Another day, another smile, another walk away.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 4:27 pm
BTW, Trolo is not even of our town, so don't let him disturb or distress you. He is always instigating one thing or another in an often passive aggressive way, and sometimes an openly aggressive way. This discussion was for Pleasanton residents, so it really doesn't matter what he feels or says. The poor man has no life, it would appear. He feeds off of our reactions to him. Just read every thread on here...he is there. Existing in one form or another, seeking reactions to his diatribes.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Claudette - my thoughts are right up your alley! That was the chatter that was going on last Saturday infront of Tully's. How interesting to show up with massive signs and be toe to toe with them, blocking their views. We could also speak loudly in a mumbly chatter, as one resident was doing. It seemed to distract them in the tiniest of ways. Kind of like white noise.
We can have fun, too!
After all, they sound like Billy Mays selling Jesus on a sign post! We can sell community and entertainment and good ole shoulder to shoulder support.
Claudette, I love you girl! I think I saw you! He DID get awfully RED! They DO NOT want people to find the right way to react.
Posted by javadoc, a resident of Dublin, on Sep 8, 2009 at 5:04 pm javadoc is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
The fundamental issue here is not freedom of speech, it is property and ownership. I presume that the offending jerks are standing on "public property." There you go - that term is an oxymoron by itself.
Restructure the downtown leases so that the sidewalks and "common areas" are treated as if owned by the stores they front. Business owners have no purpose to restrict general access - but they would gain the right to exercise their property rights, and exclude those whom they choose.
Posted by Fault Disney, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 6:32 pm
"This is about OUR town, not his."
Wow! YOU REALLY JUST SAID THAT?
Coming from someone who has GREAT INDEPENDENT THINKING kids? It's clear now that you're out to silence ANYONE who has an opinion different than that of your own. Did you not notice that Livermore is in the Neighborhood selection? As is Dublin. As is San Ramon.
What about javadoc from Dublin? His recent comment about "public property" is brilliant...But he's from Duuuublin. ;-)
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that your children are grown and great independent thinkers. I can only wish to be as proud as you when mine are grown...so far, so good.
I've never looked them up on the web, so forgive my misinformed naivety, but why would ANY confident and sure person stand before so many folks telling them all that they're gonna "burn in hell" for this and for that? That you and I are sinners...The answer is INSECURITIES. They're a great example of this unfortunate characteristic.
Why don't you provide the link to where you found:
"to instigate and possible secure reactions that will lead to lawsuits."
It seems we can all rally around that ridiculous ideology. Perhaps form a group of our own and oppose them with it and have them running with their tails between their legs, never to be seen again.
You're wasting your time trying to silence them otherwise.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 8:39 pm
But, I see your point. I am vexed by the fact that the troops who died in Iraq weren't protecting the rights of Americans to free speech. They were protecting Iraqis rights to free speech. In that they failed. You can still be arrested for being Christian in Iraq, and forsaking Islam.
Still, we must ponder the question -- whence the human soul? Ghost in the machine?
Posted by Wait a minute, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2009 at 11:21 pm
The same folks that are into the costitution and free speech, withheld their children from school becasue the president was going to speak.
These folks pre determined that the President would say harmful things that would affect their chidren. But, these same people advocate these street preachers screaming "homosexuals" and "mastrubation" at school age children?
Posted by biker, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Bikers and smokers are not preachers!! Common courtesy for your neighbor is lacking in all these folks activitites. If you ride, don't be a jerk on the throttle. If you smoke step away from the folks eating, doorways and despose of the butt! If you are preaching - well then keep it down so people who want peace and quite can have that too. I don't see a "group" of bikers reving the throttle for 1/2 to 1 hour at a time, or do I see a "group" of smokers puffing in the face of diners for up to an hour. SO, I think the preachers have an agenda, hummm
BTW, I suspect the preachers are exceeding the 70 dBA - I have a meter and will test. AND the Pleasanton PD does enforce noise ordinance on loud car stereo's and loud pipes on bikes!
Posted by Another P-Town Resident, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2009 at 3:25 pm
A couple of thoughts neighbors. I was looking through the online version of the Pleasanton Weekly and just happenned to click on this thread and began reading all the comments.
1. Am I for free speech? Absolutely. As a former military member I have fought for the right.
2. Have I seen or heard about the folks in question making this discussion so passionate on both sides? No
3. Is absolute free speech gauranteed in our constitution and laws? I am not a lawyer, nor have a legal back ground, but I know enough to know that you are not allowed so say anything you want in our society! Somethings are just not allowed. (Again, I have not personnally heard the folks in question here).
4. Having personnely dealt with a noise related issue in our town and succeeded in eliminating it, a couple things I learned if you want to eliminate this issue.
a. You have got to attend City Council meetings at every opportunity and state your case during the open sessions. Believe me, if enough of you do this and make life uncomfortable for the City Council, they will act.
b. Having video evidence helps. It may not be shown durning your 5 minutes, but will be reviewed, just submit it when you take the podium.
c. Consider small claims actions. These cannot be represented by lawyers from either side (at the time this was suggested to us by a Pleasanton Police Officer whose hands where tied, we never had to go down this path, but something you may want to research).
d. These things take time. Be persitent and don't give up.
Like a lot of you, I live here because of the mostly small town atmosphere. But we do live in an area of the world where free speech is a respected right, and sometimes the speech we hear is not what we want to hear or feel comfortable hearing. The best bet if you don't like what is being said, ignore them. They want attention to air and fund their cause. If you don't give it to them they will likely go somewhere else.
And if they don't then force the City Council to deal with it. They are our elected officials and will act if they feel their re-elections are at stake.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Thanks, Biker. I'd reallylike to learn their decible level, just for the sake of it. When we can't hold conversations with the person sitting next to us then it must be louder than one would expect.
For any of you asking for links...do your own work. Google "crytogod" or "street preachers, lawsuits" etc. cry to god has the very characters that have joined us in our downtown the last two times. Also, for those of you who haven't been present during their wonderful presentations try youtube and type in street preacher and Pleasanton.
If you do enough research, Fault, you'll be able to surmise the same things that have been said about the intentions. It's a no brainer.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2009 at 5:29 pm
A huge THANKS to Another P-Town Resident for fighting the fight for the rights we often take for granted. Thank you for your willingness to be on the front lines of democracy. And thanks for your suggestions.
Posted by Me, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2009 at 8:43 am
Wow, my posting stating the - paraphrased the preachers were just the TEA party member transplants from OC was offensiv, and removed.
(The truth is often most painful)
Clearly Pleasanton Weekly is interested in free speech - just as long as it confirms their own political agenda. They are clearly not interested in my use of metaphors. Gregarious Tea party demonstrations and gregarious religious demonstrations, while not my cup of TEA I support the rights of both to speak. I thought it was odd that so many TEA party participants were offended by the religious use of that right, especially given their typical congruence in opinion.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Sep 10, 2009 at 8:57 am
I think that the Street Preachers will return to their audience in Plutonia again and again and again. They are merely practicing their religion. They are shouting out because the BIBLE says to shout out. They have not harmed anybody. Indeed, they are CHRISTIANS and proud of it!
When the holidays arrive, there will be music everywhere, bells, decorations, people singing songs that don't make much sense and of course a fat man in red. Some residents find all the fluff highly offensive. x-mas is almost here and believe me, the Street Preachers will be back to remind you what it means. They're already on their way and they know that there's not much that you can do to stop them. Happy Holidays!