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Health Care Reform-What YOU NEED to know!

Original post made by Think about THIS:, Downtown, on Aug 9, 2009

Think about this when you are considering the heath Care Reform Bill and participating in the wave angry fatalist dooms day fringe movement.

The Bill, if enacted does not come into play until 2010 and any "reform is not implemented in full swing until the end of 2017!!!

All this stuff about Obama ruining the Country etc. is just plain nuts. Obama doesn't NOT act alone and the likes of Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some of the most business savvy people on the planet have advised Obama. The stimulus and bail out were needed to prevent global financial melt down and were started by George Bush. Obama continued with what was needed and the time and will continue to prevent an all out financial melt down in America.

We are already seeing benefits of his decisions earlier than expected. The banks have stabilized and are paying back the Gov, you and I. The Auto industry is stabilizing. Unemployment is slowing. Millions have saved their homes and still have medical insurance through the stimulus package. The global community has a much better perception of the U.S. as a Country.

This is what YOU are doing IF you feed into the mass Anti Obama frenzy!

YOU are sending a CLEAR message to those that live to destroy our nation, that we are divided and don't stand behind our Government. The more unstable we become as a group politically, the more the enemy loves this. THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT!

We are instigating the same HATE towards one another that we are fighting against in Iraq and Afghanistan!

We all loose!


Think about the message you folks are sending to those that are out to REALLY destoy our Country and harm us.

Comments (55)

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Posted by Think about that
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 9, 2009 at 6:21 pm

I think all liberals and progressives should ban together for healthcare for themselves.

Here's what will happen: They'll choose the most expensive plan, but won't have enough money between themselves to pay for it. The rest of us can wave at them in line as we drive in our SUV's to our private MD.

The real TRUTH behind this healthcare "reform".


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Posted by Me Too
a resident of Canyon Creek
on Aug 9, 2009 at 9:25 pm

First you say that "Obama doesn't NOT act alone" then you say "We are already seeing benefits of his decisions earlier than expected."

First, I belevie Obama PROMISED if the stimulus packaged pass that unemployment woiuld not go above 8.5% (or something about that), but now is over 9.5%. Yes, unemployment has to slow, its the nature of economics. Not everyone can be unemployed. And yes, the economy will recover. It very cyclical, the government and spped up or slow down (in the current administration) this progress, but its going to change even if the government does absolutely nothing.

We've seen this past week that if you give people a tax break (i.e. cars for clunkers) they will spend and this helps the economy. BUt increase taxes and the economy stands still (just imagine if you raised the sales tax on cars by $4000 what that would do to sales).

"The more unstable we become as a group politically, the more the enemy loves this. THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT!"

Just who is this enemy you speak of? Should we not fight out enemies? Or should we hug them and hope they like us?


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Posted by Me Too
a resident of Canyon Creek
on Aug 9, 2009 at 9:55 pm

"The Bill, if enacted does not come into play until 2010 and any "reform is not implemented in full swing until the end of 2017"

If this bill is so important shouldn't it be implemented in "full swing" IMMEDIATELY and not wait for 8 years????????????????????


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Posted by Whatever
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 9, 2009 at 11:16 pm

The Anti Reform crowd is WAY over reacting is the point I think?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Huh?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:19 am

Donald Trump is a "savvy" business person?!?!?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Big Poppa
a resident of Del Prado
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:20 am

He doesn't have one, and he doesn't know what's in the House plan. "While the president says his plan will reduce costs, 53% believe it will have the opposite effect." So we finally as a group know the government doesn't accomplish what it says and lies about it.  If this report with Rasmussen is true, it could be a tipping point.  And these poll numbers are fine for what they ask, but I would like to see what happens to the numbers in the health care poll if the questions were more informative.  For example, what if the question in Rasmussen's next poll was worded like this: "Would you be strongly in favor of or strongly opposed to the provision on Page 435 of the Democrat health care bill that allows the government to garnish your bank account to pay for medical procedures? 

It's not about "reform" it's about government controlling our lives. Take the health care bill for example. On page 401 it mandates end-of-life government counseling every five years for those 65 years and older. Do you understand that the health care bill that al government computer access to your bank records to transfer money from your account to their account to pay for whatever they think you owe. We all know that the government can't run anything and Obama is out right lying when he says it will pay for itself.  They can't even run a $1 billion trade-in program for old cars.  They can't run a
anything right.  The Post Office is down $4.2 billion and they're going to close hundreds of offices. 


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Dave
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:33 am

Regardless of one's political affiliation, doesn't it make sense to carefully consider both the pros and cons of the proposed health plan? Many of our "representatives" have even admitted not reading the entire bill (approx 1,000 pages) and yet have fallen in line supporting it. Doesn't make much sense! There are so many questions on each page that are going unanswered, yet the ridiculous name calling continues on this site. Here's another person with actual experience regarding what will happen under this health care bill.

Wednesday, I was at the doctor whom I have been going to since we moved down here (he is the one who discovered my cancer). I have to get a very expensive shot every 3 months ($3000) that is designed to keep the PSI down and help to prevent a recurrence of the cancer. Has some uncomfortable side effects, and I was questioning the need to continue with it, which he assured me was necessary. He then asked how old I was, and when I replied 70, he said that if this legislation goes through as intended by the powers that be, that I probably would not be able to get it next year, as that would be money better spent on someone else with greater longevity. I would be referred to someone to "counsel" me.

I asked him why the AMA had recently endorsed the plan. He replied that only about 15% of the nation's doctors were members of AMA, and most of them were not really on the front lines of doctorhood but in some other areas of medicine. He said he was a member, but would not be after this membership year.
This man got part of his training in London , and practiced in Canada for 16 years before coming to the US , and he has no use for socialized medicine, regardless of how you wrap it, or what kind of bow to put on it. He said that we have a shortfall of around 400,000 doctors at the present time, and many of today's doctors are of the baby boomer generation who are nearing retirement and/or will decide to hang it up rather than deal with the results this is sure to bring.


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Posted by Give Us a Break
a resident of Foothill Farms
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:38 am

Big Poppa,

If you are going to contribute here, why don't you try to contribute something meaningful and based upon truth?

"It's not about "reform" it's about government controlling our lives. Take the health care bill for example. On page 401 it mandates end-of-life government counseling every five years for those 65 years and older. Do you understand that the health care bill that al government computer access to your bank records to transfer money from your account to their account to pay for whatever they think you owe. We all know that the government can't run anything and Obama is out right lying when he says it will pay for itself. "


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Posted by Lier
a resident of Country Fair
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:42 am

Dave,,

My comments below your hype..

---Wednesday, I was at the doctor whom I have been going to since we moved down here (he is the one who discovered my cancer). I have to get a very expensive shot every 3 months ($3000) that is designed to keep the PSI down and help to prevent a recurrence of the cancer. Has some uncomfortable side effects, and I was questioning the need to continue with it, which he assured me was necessary. He then asked how old I was, and when I replied 70, he said that if this legislation goes through as intended by the powers that be, that I probably would not be able to get it next year, as that would be money better spent on someone else with greater longevity. I would be referred to someone to "counsel" me.




I asked him why the AMA had recently endorsed the plan. He replied that only about 15% of the nation's doctors were members of AMA, and most of them were not really on the front lines of doctorhood but in some other areas of medicine. He said he was a member, but would not be after this membership year.


This man got part of his training in London , and practiced in Canada for 16 years before coming to the US , and he has no use for socialized medicine, regardless of how you wrap it, or what kind of bow to put on it. He said that we have a shortfall of around 400,000 doctors at the present time, and many of today's doctors are of the baby boomer generation who are nearing retirement and/or will decide to hang it up rather than deal with the results this is sure to bring.--

Dave,

YOU are so full of beans! First your story seems really fabricated.

Second, WE REALLY need reform if your doctor has all this extra time to discuss your condition AS WELL AS the TIME to give you his background history and "council" you on national medical care issues!



Give US a break!


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Posted by Kemo Sabe
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:42 am

Facts concerning the health care bill are necessary. The current bill is impossible to understand. It is impossible to discuss the bill with no facts. As citizens, we should be pushing for an authentic translation of the bill. Something we can all understand and then make decisions. Any other discussion about the bill without an understanding is a waste of time.


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Posted by Shame on Him
a resident of Canyon Oaks
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:45 am

This doctor is a radical right wing and has NO business scaring his patients! He clearly has no grasp of what is actually in the Bill.

"I would be referred to someone to "counsel" me"

YOU already were "counceled" and fed proaganda by your own doctor!

Their is a MAJOR ethical dilema as far as this doctor goes!


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Posted by Dominic DiBlasio
a resident of Del Prado
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:46 am

If you believe this rhetoric, I have some land I can sell you...
If government involvement in our helthcare choices is so good, why doesn't Obama first fix the gross problems where the government is already involved with healthcare...Why doesn't he first fix Medicare and Midicaid before pushing aggressively, not wanting time for people to read the bill such sweeping changes.

Your right, I am anti-Obama, but it's not personal, it's that his choices are anti-american values! As for his policies progress, nonsense...Common sense which is uncommon in this administration says spending what we do not have will fix all of our economic problems...Hmmm, if you and I acted this way with our finances, we would be arrested!

A nanny state is not what we need. We need to have Obama lead us in the direction of personal responsibility not what the government can do for you...


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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:51 am

Kemo Sabe, The Bill is NOT at all impossible to read and understand if one can read t a college level and has some legal and or analytical back ground.

You are 100% correct that it's futile to be discussing the issue based upon drive by radicals posting VERY inaccurate interpretation of the text which has become the norm on all the Republican based web sights and news channels.


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Posted by What?
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:54 am

DAVE! "Regardless of one's political affiliation, doesn't it make sense to carefully consider both the pros and cons of the proposed health plan?"

Looks like YOU already made YOUR mind up after a visit to YOUR Doctor and decided to share with all of us!

10-15 minutes and your doctor told you all this? Further, he fed you B.S.

Un ethical is the correct assumption here!


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Posted by Fred
a resident of Danbury Park
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:56 am

I am fine with my healthcare. Very happy with my doctor and the treatment I receive and I have no interest in having it changed.


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Posted by Dave
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:57 am

To both Lier and Shame on Him,
Rather than attacking the comments, please, please educate yourselves to what the bill actually does say. Ask your elected representative if they have read the bill and ask questions of them that require a yes or no, or true or false response. Form your own opinions, but hopefully after you have reviewed the bill in its entirety. I suspect that most of our representatives have not educated themselves on the entire bill. There are just too many unanswered question still remaining. Attacks on contributors are a waste of time for all when we should all be closely reviewing something that will impact each and every one of us.


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Posted by Jane
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:17 am

DOMINIC<

"If government involvement in our helthcare choices is so good, why doesn't Obama first fix the gross problems where the government is already involved with healthcare...Why doesn't he first fix Medicare and Midicaid before pushing aggressively, not wanting time for people to read the bill such sweeping changes."

Dominic,

Fixing the "gross problems" with Medicare and Medicaid is EXACTLY what 300 pages of the Bill address! YOUR tax dollars being mis managed! Read the Bill!


"Your right, I am anti-Obama, but it's not personal, it's that his choices are anti-american values!"


That's a very strong satement about the President. Would you be willing to site and back up with evidence your statement?

"for his policies progress, nonsense...Common sense which is uncommon in this administration says spending what we do not have will fix all of our economic problems...Hmmm, if you and I acted this way with our finances, we would be arrested!"

What EXACTLY did the Reublican President do for eight years? He SPENT
TRILLIONS on a war, based upon covert and calculated lies to the American public. Obama is spending money HERE in the US as it was/is neccessary to avoid a deeper recession and it has worked!


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Posted by Doc
a resident of Danville
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:22 am

"I am fine with my healthcare. Very happy with my doctor and the treatment I receive and I have no interest in having it changed."

Why is it that NO ONE in any of these Heath Reform discussions has brought up the insurmountable challenge and hassles and RED TAPE that patients, especially elderly go through with insurance companies currently.

There are so many exclusions and a major dictate of what an average plan covers and does not cover, it's a nightmare! Ask most anyone with a child or relative or loved one that has had major ongoing medical problems!

The reason that MOST people are happy with their health Care is plain and simple! MOST people have NO MAJOR medical issues! That's a FACT!

Major parts of the Bill streamline services and eliminate the red tape.


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Posted by Nosy Neighbors
a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:23 am

Monday's Rant = Insurance Companies

AUTOMOBILE REPAIRS. Front quarter panel damage, replace & re-paint. Insurance quote = $4,885.00
Cash price quote = $1,020.00

MEDICAL CARE. Broken leg, treatment, x-ray's, cast, medication.
Insurance quote = $12,080.00
Cash price quote = $3,100.00

HOMEOWNERS CLAIM. Broken shower pipe, remove tile, fix pipe, repair/paint/tile, etc.

Insurance quote = $27,000.00
Cash price quote = $8,750.00

So before we go all hog wild about "fixing" our supposedly broken medical system has anybody given any thought about fixing the broken infrastructure in which the insurance companies are raping the medical providers (not to mention homeowners, car owners, etc.) & have perpetuated an environment wherein costs are automatically inflated exponentially when the insurance carrier is footing the bill vs. a private party or individual that is paying out of their own pocket?

...yeah, get the government involved, that will REALLY help things...not!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Doc
a resident of Danville
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:25 am

I want to add that it IS a nightmare for doctors dealing with the insurance companies as well. We are LIMITED by what we can and can not do for a patient, based upon their insurance guidelines. Talk about rationing medical care! We are not free to offer the best procedure possible, but rater limited by the patients insurance and these benefits are RATIONED greatly! We get penalized if we go over caps and we get compensated to stay below the caps.We get compensated to keep expensed down!


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Posted by My God!
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:29 am

Dave!

"Rather than attacking the comments, please, please educate yourselves to what the bill actually does say. Ask your elected representative if they have read the bill and ask questions of them that require a yes or no, or true or false response"

Why are you going around in circles my friend? Why ask your elected officals? You say "please educate YOURSELVES", SO start Reading!


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Posted by Ken in South Pleasanton
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:31 am

Reply to THINK ABOUT THIS
Boy, you've had way too much Kool-Aid. I don't know where you get your statistics, but very little of what you said can be supported by fact. The banks are paying back the loans because they don't like the regulations and control that came with them. Those banks that are keeping the money are slow to lend it for the purpose it was given to them. People in trouble with mortgages are not seeing the relief that was promised as banks are only extending the repayment terms or holding fast to their original terms. The money the banks are lending goes to those who already have money and jobs, not to those who are in trouble.

Obama was going to create 2 million (or so) new jobs, but since taking office we have seen more than 3 million jobs lost. This means he will have to enact programs to stimulate the creation of nearly 5 million jobs to meet his goal.

I don't support the proposed health care reform bill because I don't believe it to be fiscally responsible or workable through the government bureaucracies. THINK ABOUT THIS...the proposed bill is only a set of guidelines that, if approved, will be turned over to hundreds of individual government bureaucrats to develop the detailed regulations. THEY will INTERPRET the bill using their individual biases to create these regulations...you and I will have NO SAY in what they implement. Most of these bureaucrats are appointed and don't answer to the electorate. Is this how you want your access to health care determined?

This is not a bash-Obama thing, however, it is a bash our legislators thing. Many who are on August recess are avoiding their constituents becasue they don't want to hear their consitituents' concerns. The only thing these legislators are good at rushing into is a good PORK-frenzy. As the details of this bill become better known, more people on both sides of the political divide are opposing it.

Think about that...Think About THIS.


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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:37 am

What Doc stated is absolutely true and it's a good question why this is not discussed more! Doctors do get compensated fro keeping costs down in many cases. And as Doc pointed out, heath care is rationed greatly already and insurance companies do made medical decisions for you.

The more I read the proposed Bill, the more I see elimination of exclusions, waste and red tape, for the benefit of the patient.


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Posted by Dave Johnson
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:38 am

Here is some food for thought:
From CMS at FreeRepublic.com:

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll


 +   Like this comment
Posted by NOT Anti Ken
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:40 am

Ke,

Kool Aid, demanding facts?

"I don't support the proposed health care reform bill because I don't believe it to be fiscally responsible or workable through the government bureaucracies. THINK ABOUT THIS...the proposed bill is only a set of guidelines that, if approved, will be turned over to hundreds of individual government bureaucrats to develop the detailed regulations. THEY will INTERPRET the bill using their individual biases to create these regulations...you and I will have NO SAY in what they implement. Most of these bureaucrats are appointed and don't answer to the electorate. Is this how you want your access to health care determined?"

YOU are looking into a crystal ball at best and determining the outcome of what you do not know.

I do know some answers, but they are way too deep for you based uopn my experience with your thinking and agenda.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:44 am

Darn it Dave! We ahve seen this a million times!

This is so out of context as pointed out a hundred times! This copy and paste of amateur interpretation of the Bill, by those wishing to crush the administration t any and all costs is ge4tting beyond pathetic! It's NOT rocket science to READ the Bill YOUR SELF! Get with it!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:44 am

Sorry about the spelling, this is getting very frustrating!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Dave Johnson
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:57 am

To Law Student, can you refute them? With facts?!


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Posted by Dave?
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:15 am

"Dave Johnson of Birdland"

Dave, your posts were calculated and you clearly had an agenda, appearing to not have an agenda and your story seems made up. You went from asking for people to educate them selves, to a story about your doctor, to posting the copy and paste false rhetoric and NOW you are cahllenging Law Student, who has CLEARLY an ability to read and understand this stuff. Further this Law Student has have very productive input here on the forums, without being rude and has posted links to Legal Interpretation of the Bill. Futher, this person, he/she has been reading the Bill in depth with a Law Class, which is way more thatn most people posting can say.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Law Student
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:23 am

Dave,

With all due respect, I have done so already as have Legal Analysts and I have provided the links and information in several forum threads.

Your first line item:
" 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!"

This takes about an hour to read the text prior to and after this citation to understand that this statement is NOT at all true.

That's part of the problem with these one liner citations of the Bill. One can interpret text really crazy when ONE line is taken out of many pertinent pages of text.

Some of what you pointed out is true however and NOT at all out of line with potentially effective reform.


I come at this from a Legal Perspective, so I would hope that I myself remain open minded. Yes there are pro's and Con's to the Bill and the Bill still needs work.


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Posted by The scoop
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:29 am

Here's the real scoop on the Healthcare reform bill.

It's a list of mandates. There are no specifics.

Just like the Measure G flap, without specifics, you leave it up to government agencies with their personal agendas to create the program.

That is what the issue is over. People that want this plan don't seem to be willing to admit it. People who don't want this plan are accused of judging something that "isn't" in the bill - well of course it isn't. But at somepoint after passing Point A, you are going to arrive at point B.

Point B is purposely left open. You can criticize what isn't there, but you also can defend it either.


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Posted by Pierre
a resident of Country Fair
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:49 am

Law Student,

you are not getting a lot of traction here because people do not respect lawyers and secondly the trial lawyers are in the pocket of Obama.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Dave
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:05 am

Law Student, thanks for your well thought out response. I'm neither for it nor against, however as "The Scoop" has pointed out, its all currently without specifics and as I understand it, we will have little or no input on the specifics. Workable reform is something different for each individual and I tend to believe this attempt at reform is not acceptable. The entire process is far from acceptable and even may be unworkable


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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:32 am

Scoop,

"Here's the real scoop on the Healthcare reform bill.


It's a list of mandates. There are no specifics."

The Bill is very "specific" almost to the point of being overly specific. That is why one needs to read about 40 pages, just to analyze the true intent and meaning of ONE sentence.





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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:39 am

Pierre,

You have no idea what my personal focus is in the Legal field, nor is this about me.

At Least many in the Legal field are actually reading this Bill, which is in itself a major commitment and task.


My POINT, over and over again is that some people do have the ability to READ the Bill for themselves and to interpret the meaning of any paragraph and or sentence as far as the actual meaning.

This is a FAR cry from reading a copied and pasted line item list and interpret for the general pubic, the meaning of a specific one liner or paragraph, based upon an agenda to discredit the entire administration and or Bill.


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Posted by Dave
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:44 am

Ah darn it Law Student, now you say it's "very specific", but one needs to read 40 pages to get the specifics. Sounds like the type of thing bureaucrats love. My interpretation versus your interpretation.
And one wonders why so many of us have no faith in this health plan and/or most politicians!


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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:49 am

Dave,

"Law Student, thanks for your well thought out response."

Dave, you are MORE than welcome!

" I'm neither for it nor against, however as "The Scoop" has pointed out, its all currently without specifics and as I understand it, we will have little or no input on the specifics."

That's an understatement, with all the thousands of web sites as well as some of the media's spin on the Bill, which is totally inaccurate. When one chooses to just read these line item lists, posted by those unable or unwilling to interpret the Bill accurately and they take this as gospel, everyone looses.

"Workable reform is something different for each individual and I tend to believe this attempt at reform is not acceptable. The entire process is far from acceptable and even may be unworkable"

You just may be correct about this? That's why YOUR representatives are not jumping hastily into this.

Also why there is EIGHT years of implementing the Bill criteria if and when passed and signed.

There is a LOT of educated energy going into this and YOU may consider being grateful for Lawyers and others who are putting in hundreds of hours analyzing the Bill, who are looking out for YOUR interest.


And again, the Bill is VERY SPECIFIC in most cases.


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Posted by Law Student
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:52 am

Talk later as I need to his the Road and go discuss this Bill MORE in an hour! UG!


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Posted by Arroyo
a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Aug 10, 2009 at 1:09 pm

Why did Obama need this passed before the recess? What's the hurry? (I, for one, think this Cash for Clunkers program needed a lot more thought than was given.) If the government has a better plan, let's hear it. Obviously, the tens of thousands of people writing their congressmembers are worried, and rightfully so. Analysis paralysis is not what I'm asking for -- how about something in plain language, short and succinct. Of course, an organization that produces a tax code that stacks 12 feet high, doesn't seem to know how to do it.

Oh, and while I'm at it, "millions" of distressed homeowners have not been saved by Obama's policies -- despite the earlier comment to the contrary!!


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Posted by Start here
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 1:36 pm

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!








First of all, it starts on page 21, not 22, and it simply mandates a study of risk on the part of all companies that choose to provide self-insurance, to make sure they are capitalized properly. This is something that private insurance companies are required to do; it's to protect the consumer. Say you work at a company with their own health insurance system; how would you like to find out after you've received a $100,000 bill for a hospital stay, that the insurance pool can't pay the bill?








This is also important because when they can't pay the bills, then everyone else with insurance ends up picking up the slack. Got that? That's the reason health insurance premiums have more than doubled in the last ten years, and are scheduled to double again in the next ten, if nothing changes.








Anyway, why should companies acting as health insurance companies be allowed to operate under different rules than insurance companies? Isn't that unfair competition?








• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!








The section actually starts on page 26, and it's entitled:




SEC. 122. ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED.










There is absolutely NO section in there, from page 26 through page 30, that indicates rationing of any kind. Looking at Page 29 specifically, it contains a section called "Annual Limitation." A-HA! See? It's a LIMITATION! That's the same as rationing, right? Didn't they admit rationing?








Well, no. Because the limit is on the amount that people will have to pay out in cost-sharing, should the agency implementing the bill decide to use a version of cost-sharing. The limit is on how much a patient will have to pay, not a limit on the health care the patient receives.Watch how many times these tools bring up the "rationing" canard. It's almost as often as they mention ACORN. (I kid you not. Just wait.)








See what I mean when I say we have to watch these people, and check their "facts?"








• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)








The section on Page 30 establishes an advisory committee, and yes; they will decide which treatments and benefits you get. I'm unsure as to why this is a bad thing. I don't want my health insurance premiums going to Britney's boob job, even if I have private insurance. Which reminds me; does this bozo actually think private insurance companies don't have a list of acceptable treatments and benefits?








There is one difference here, though. The committee's recommendations will be published and the public will have access to them. Which means they will be able to offer input to the process.








Oh, and there is nothing here about "no appeals process." The Committee will simply recommend processes for implementation. Not only that, but varying appeals processes are laid out in detail throughout the bill. So, he lied about that...








• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.








See above. The Commissioner will simply oversee implementation of the rules that are decided upon by the Commission. He or she will be responsible for making sure that everyone is held accountable up and down the line. Nothing in the bill gives power to a "czar," who will make health benefits decisions. The commission and the Secretary will make decisions on benefits as changes become necessary. Again; I'm not sure why this is a bad thing, except that right wingers don't seem fond of accountability.Well, unless we're talking about unskilled poor people who get welfare money.








• Page 50: All non-U.S. citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.








Now, when you read something like this, you half expect to see something mandating that non-US citizens be given "free health care."








The funny thing is, the word FREE only appears one time in the entire bill, and it is not coupled with the term "health care." People will be provided with a new health care choice, based on their income, to a certain extent. So we can toss that little red herring off the boat right away. NO ONE will receive free health care. I mean, unless they win some sort of sweepstakes or something.I guess that's possible.








No, the section the wingnut refers to is entitled:




SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.




What is says is:




"… [A]ll health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."




The word "free" isn't in there. It just means that no one can be denied insurance coverage or health care because of their looks, or because they're wearing robes or a burqa. But nothing in there says undocumented immigrants will be able to scam "free" health care. In other words, you can only call that a lie.








• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.








No, it says everyone who opts into the public insurance system MAY be issued a health identification card, if the commission thinks that's a good idea. But the bill doesn't mandate it. It's quite possible the insurance commission will recommend that states implement the public health insurance option, and some states may put the information on your driver's license or state ID card. And again; the only people who will need a card are those with public insurance.








And what's wrong with this idea, anyway? I've never had health insurance from a private company from which I didn't receive an identification card.








• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.








Wow. Is that scary, or what? Only one problem; it's a lie. And I don't mean he's mistaken; I mean, he's lying. Here's what it says:


''The standards under this section shall be developed, adopted and enforced so as to… (C) enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice;"




It clearly refers to payment for the health care, not payment of the premium. Most health care companies love this, and will adopt it. But it is still their choice, just as it could be your choice to pay your health insurance premiums by direct transfer, check or payroll deduction. As is the case now.








• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)








Once more, it doesn't say that. What it does say is:




SEC. 164. REINSURANCE PROGRAM FOR RETIREES.




13 (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—




(1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish a temporary reinsurance program (in this section referred to as the ''reinsurance program'') to provide reimbursement to assist participating employment-based plans with the cost of providing health benefits to retirees and to eligible spouses, surviving spouses and dependents of such retirees.








Okay, you'll note the word PARTICIPATING in the above. To anyone who would bother to slide down a couple of paragraphs, past the definitions, all of which define the terms in the above, and do not include the word "mandatory" anywhere, to Page 67, we find:




(b) PARTICIPATION.—To be eligible to participate in the reinsurance program, an eligible employment-based plan shall submit to the Secretary an application for participation in the program, at such time, in such manner, and containing such information as the Secretary shall require.




So, it's all voluntary. Not only that, but it's REINSURANCE, which means the participating plan will be providing their capital to the federal government to fund the plan. I would also point out that members of unions such as SEIU and UAW are also taxpayers, and they currently purchase private insurance for retired members. And if ACORN isn't a red herring, I don't know what is. I'm not aware that ACORN provides health insurance to anyone. But hey; it's not true racist wingnuttery until you invoke ACORN, eh? This isn't the last time you'll see it.








• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.








This is a phenomenally stupid complaint from a right wing ideological perspective, and it lays bare the moral bankruptcy in their arguments against universal health care. These are the same people who are always touting competition and choice as the most important aspects of capitalism. The point of the insurance exchange is to give people an obvious and transparent choice of health insurance options. A private insurance company can participate and offer their wares alongside the public option, if they so choose. If they don't want to participate, they're free to conduct business as usual, and they won't have to conform to any government rules. Well, except for the ones they must already conform with, whenever the Bush Administration's not in office. They've always had to conform to government rules to participate in Medicare, and I don't see any of them dropping out of business for that.








• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)








Again, this is a lie. There are requirements for those choosing to participating in the Health Exchange, but there is absolutely no mandate to join. And if there is going to be competition, it should be on a level playing field, which is what the Exchange creates. It creates an easy-to-read set of options, which insurance companies are free to enhance, and all companies who participate are instructed to offer several levels of plans. If you really think about it rationally, and not the right wing way, the Exchange actually enhances the private insurance companies' chances of survival. But these idiots want to kill it. If there's a public option available at a competitive price per month, insurance companies can offer two other tiers of service, with whatever enhancements they want to include, for a higher price. So, rather than offering "total government control," it actually allows insurance companies an opportunity to offer several tiers of "enhanced" service, to enhance their profitability.








• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens








There's that perpetual racist component again. My great-grandmother couldn't read English well enough to follow medical instructions when I was a kid in the 1960s, and she had been in this country since she fled the Nazis in the 1930s. I know this, because she used to have me read stuff to her when I was 6. By the way, she was from Poland, and she was very, very white. Hundreds of thousands of people come here legally from all over the world, without knowing English sufficiently, and they occasionally get sick. Hell, half the right wingers in this country legally can't speak English well enough to read a Congressional bill, let alone a doctor's instructions. Obviously.








• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.








Once more, they invoke ACORN. The above is too silly to even bother with, except to say that informing people of their options and helping them sign up seems remarkably similar to the teams of people the private insurance companies send out to workplaces during "open enrollment." Just saying...








• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.








Those eligible for Medicaid already have public health insurance. The reason they qualify for Medicaid is because they are poor and have no choices. What sense does it make to have two separate public health plans; Medicaid and this new plan. I mean, this is purely stupid, folks. Page 102 makes clear that Medicaid will be folded into this new plan when it passes. It's a no-brainer.






But I will say this; people on Medicaid will actually have just as much choice as they've always had; probably more.








• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.








This is also extremely inaccurate, if not an outright lie. There is no "price-fixing." First of all, the bill refers to the same rate-setting statutes the government has always followed with Medicare and Medicaid. It has to do with the rates they pay for procedures, and the process includes medical providers and follows them very closely. The doctors and medical corporations still set the prices in that system, and private insurers will be free to negotiate higher or lower payment prices if they wish. They don't pay the same as Medicare and Medicaid for procedures now, and no one's complaining about "price fixing."








You know what? This isn't just inaccurate, it's dishonest.








• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.








Once again, the bill doesn't say that. In fact, the language is almost exactly the same as the language in Medicare, and it says absolutely nothing about anyone's "wages." The entire section is about rates for procedures and treatment, and physicians are free to apply in any category they choose, just as they are now with Medicare.








The level of dishonesty in this one is astounding. Every single private health insurance company in the market negotiates rates for procedures with participating physicians, and physicians are not allowed to charge any more than that amount. In other words, they do the same thing Medicare does. The only difference is, Medicare pays every claim short of fraud, while insurance companies routinely deny claims, and try every trick they can think of to not pay at all. And they wonder why we're gunning for them...








• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.








This one is pure crap. There's no other way to put it. Here's what it actually says:








SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE.




21 (a) IN GENERAL.—An employer meets the requirements of this section with respect to an employee if the following requirements are met:




(1) OFFERING OF COVERAGE.—The employer offers the coverage described in section 311(1) either




through an Exchange-participating health benefits plan or other than through such a plan.




(2) EMPLOYER REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION.— The employer timely pays to the issuer of such coverage an amount not less than the employer required contribution specified in subsection (b) for such coverage.8 (3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION.—The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.




(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES.—The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).








In other words, IF the employer opts into the public insurance system, THEN he must provide for the autoenrollment of employees… again a choice. But here's the really dishonest part. Just a few paragraphs later, there is this little section (Page 148):








(2) OPT-OUT.—In no case may an employer automatically enroll an employee in a plan under paragraph (1) if such employee makes an affirmative election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offered by such employer. An employer shall provide an employee with a 30-day period to make such an affirmative election before the employer may automatically enroll the employee in such a plan.








Remember; this lying wingnut said "no alternatives." Strange, but I see an employer being able to choose not to participate in the public insurance system. And every employee has the choice to opt-out; it says so right in the bill. Those seem like alternatives. Even if you're not the best at math, you have to know that two is greater than zero, right?








• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.








Again, an absolute lie. The page number is 146, not 126, which is a quibble. But employers are not required to pay healthcare bills for anyone. IF they CHOOSE to participate in the public insurance system, they are required to autoenroll employees in the insurance, unless the employee chooses to opt out. But the INSURANCE pays the bills, not the employers. Employers will not be required to pay for the procedures themselves, unless they opt to self-insure. But that's hardly a mandate, is it?








• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll.




• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll.








More lies. The section ONLY refers to any employer who doesn't offer ANY insurance to his employees. If they offer either private insurance or the public insurance, they do not have to pay the 8%, regardless of the size of their payroll. The purpose of the public insurance system is to cover as many people as possible. An employee of such an employer who wants to buy the public insurance will have to pay an amount indexed to the probably meager pay the cheapskate employer is paying. (Think fast food franchise where everyone works for $8 an hour or less.) The fund created by this tax will subsidize the purchase of health insurance for these people.








An employer with a tiny payroll will pay considerably less, but again; ONLY if he doesn't participate in the public insurance system. Here's the table.








If the annual payroll of such employer for the preceding calendar year:




The applicable percentage is:




Does not exceed $250,000 ..................................... 0 percent




Exceeds $250,000, but does not exceed $300,000 2 percent




Exceeds $300,000, but does not exceed $350,000 4 percent




Exceeds $350,000, but does not exceed $400,000 6 percent








So, if they have a really small business, say 10 employees making $24,000 each, and don't offer insurance, they get off scot-free. In fact, if they have 20 employees making $15,000 per year, they only pay $6,000 into the fund.






If you ask me, there's a gap here. Really small cheapskate business owners are going to get off light, and all other taxpayers will have to foot more of the bill as a result.








• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.








Yay! Finally, they got one right. Well, partially right, anyway.








Anyone without health insurance -- specifically those who choose to run around without health insurance because they're too cheap and stupid -- will now have to pay something into a system that is required to take care of them when they contract a serious illness or get hit by a bus. Let's see… if the guy makes $100,000 per year, the total tax is $2,500, which is far less than he would pay for health insurance now. And for those who think this is especially unfair to rich people who choose not to carry insurance because of their immense wealth, don't worry; the amount is capped at the size of the average health insurance premium. In return, the rest of us won't have to pick up the tab when the uninsured numb nuts is wheeled into the emergency room for a trauma because he was riding his dirt bike and slammed into a tree while not wearing a helmet. .








In other words, this is something to applaud, not to hate. It should encourage people to opt into the insurance system, which saves everyone money.








• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).








This wingnut sure does have an obsession with immigrants. By the way, NON-RESIDENT ALIEN means someone who doesn't LIVE here. In almost all other countries, there is a national health insurance system, and their government will pay for their health care. Why would we tax them for something they won't use in most cases?








• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.








And we get back to the lies.






The agency will have extremely limited access to SOME information contained in IRS TAX records for those individuals choosing to participate in the public health insurance system, in order to determine eligibility for certain premium discounts. There are strict limits on the info they will have access to, and there is a strict prohibition on passing the information anywhere else.It is most certainly NOT "ALL American financial and personal records."








• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.








No, actually, it doesn't. What is it about wingnuts that makes them think they can put a period anywhere they want, and change the meaning of something, and no one will notice? Here's what it REALLY says:




''(4) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES.—The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter or for purposes of section 55.'''




I can't explain what this means. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't "really say" what they say it says...






•Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."








This is also a lie. The entire section has to do with reducing the number of physician services used to compute health care growth rates from 2011 on. There is absolutely no provision to reduce services for Medicaid. In fact, Medicaid will be folded into the public insurance system, which makes the above assertion just insane.








• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)








See above. Another lie. It's another part of the section dealing with predicting costs. Specifically, it deals with "conversion factors. There is nothing in there mandating what anyone gets paid for anything.








• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.




• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.




• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.








These are just insane. The first one doesn't set values for anything. It simply adjusts the method for coming up with values later on. Which makes sense, because covering everyone will drop the health care inflation rate tremendously, especially after the first few years. The second evaluates productivity and offer incentives to increase efficiency and productivity. As for the last one, why wouldn't the government regulate the rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs they intend to buy? You think private insurance companies just go to Wal-Mart? And read it carefully; all it does is extend Medicare regulations to the public insurance system. Why is it suddenly not good enough?








• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!








They love that word "rationing." If only they knew what it meant.












Essentially, there is no rationing anywhere in this bill. And anyone who doesn't think private insurance rations health care has never encountered a denied claim. But not only does the section they point to NOT impose anything close to "rationing," it promises to pay EXTRA to hospitals that specialize in cancer treatment. EXTRA!












Since when does "rationing" constitute EXTRA anything? Bet our grandparents are pissed to know that gas rationing during World War II meant they could get extra.










• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.




• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.








Okay, the first one's not entirely a lie, although it doesn't say "preventable readmissions;" it says "EXCESSIVE readmissions," and there is a significant difference. It merely extends a policy that's been standard under Medicare for years. It encourages doctors to make sure they aren't treating the hospital as an assembly line and making sure people are treated properly the first time. It also goes a long way to keeping hypochondriacs out of the hospital to a significant degree, and keeping costs down.








The second one, on the other hand, is completely made up. First of all, the page number is wrong. But it rewards efficiency. Think about it this way. Suppose you take your car in to have the air conditioning repaired, and the shop charges you $200. If you have to take it in two more times for the same problem, are you going to accept them charging you $200 more each time? Of course not. Well, why shouldn't doctors be encouraged to do everything possible to fix a problem the first time? Not only that, but imagine a medical office scamming the insurance company/government by purposely not treating everything the first time, so that they can get more money for more readmissions? This measure actually increases efficiency.








Imagine that; these wingnuts actually have a problem with the government encouraging efficiency and waste, and keeping the cost of health care down.








• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!




• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.




• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.








Surprise; more lies The bill prohibits doctors from referring patients to hospitals in which they have a significant ownership interest in, without disclosing to the patient that he indeed has an ownership stake in the hospital. The government also prohibits "self-referral" under most circumstances. That's actually fair to all of the other hospitals. There is absolutely zero prohibition on doctors having ownership of hospitals. What this tool is citing has to do with rural areas. It's to prevent one physician from effectively controlling all aspects of health care in a region, where possible.








But once more; doctors are not prohibited from doing anything, except creating a monopoly and locking others out of a market. And the "community input" provision is just common sense. Note, another ACORN reference, and there is no way it applies here at all. I'm not aware of ACORN being involved in hospital expansion in rural areas.








• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.








I don't even have to look this one up, but I did anyway. Another joke/lie.








Outcome-based healthcare is common sense. And it has nothing to do with "rationing." In fact, rationing is the exact OPPOSITE of "outcome-based" care. By emphasizing quality care, you reduce the number of ER and urgent care admissions, and you reduce the number of readmissions, as well. Again; it's the opposite of rationing. Rationing is what private insurance companies do. I'm reminded of that guy at the beginning of Michael Moore's film, "Sicko," in which some poor guy had a choice of which finger he would like to have reattached. "Outcome based" care would have repaired both fingers and made the guy a productive citizen again. Health care "rationing" forced him to choose the cheapest finger to reattach.








• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.








They already have the ability to regulate and disqualify Medicare Advantage plans.. In other words, this maintains the status quo . Oh, and it says absolutely nothing about "HMOS, etc."








• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.








No. That's not what it says. What it says is, it will begin to phase such special needs individuals into the public health insurance system. IOW, those people who qualify for Medicaid and people under 65 who qualify for Medicare will be eligible for this system instead. Seriously, can wingnuts read at all?








• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).




• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?




• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.




• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.




• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.




• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.




• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.








More bureaucracy than the private insurer's tendency to automatically deny claims over $1500, and force you to call them in order to get the bill paid? Have you ever been to a hospital's administrative offices? There is no more bureaucracy than in the private health insurance industry.








That said, Telehealth has been around for years, and has saved Medicare countless dollars by directing seniors to services. This merely expands the concept to people covered under the public insurance system. Imagine; more service; what a concept, right?








The rest are pure paranoia. The Advance Care Planning Consultation system has also been around for years, and I'm unaware of a spate of senior suicides or euthanasia as a result. It simply encourages people to consult with their doctors, and get all of the options available for either planning for the end, or working to create a higher quality of life. I'm sure almost everyone knows someone with a debilitating disease, such as multiple sclerosis or diabetes; advance care planning reduces the likelihood that these people will constantly show up at urgent care or the ER for minor problems that they themselves can take care of.








• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.




• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.








Two more gratuitous mentions of ACORN. And what's wrong with either of the above?








• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.








This one is silly, of course. Unless the government starts mandating marriage and family therapy, and then conducts the therapy themselves, the "intervention" isn't happening. I mean, many health insurance plans cover psychiatric services under some conditions, but no one is suggesting that Blue Cross or CIGNA is trying to control your mind.








• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.








Of course, it merely adds them to the Medicare mix. There is nothing to define, create or ration them in this bill.








I guess they became tired, because they got tired of lying about halfway through the bill. There are over 500 more pages to this thing.








A tip of my hat to my friend, Ben Cerruti, for providing this look at the Obamanation called ObamaCare.








Yes, thank him for lying his ass off, and giving me a chance to cut the crap, big time. I'd been working on a piece about right wing health care lies, and this gave me a chance to dispel most of them in one fell swoop. I mean, all of these lies in one piece. How do these people sleep at night?








Write, e-mail, fax, or call your senators and your representative and tell them to vote NO!






If you tell them that, you're a fool. The CBO estimates that, with no changes to the health care system, premiums will increase by $1800 per year for the next ten years. That means an family will pay an average annual premium of more than $32,000 by then. And that's assuming that the 47 million people without insurance doesn't increase tremendously. This offers everyone a chance at affordable health insurance, and stops the health care inflation that has crippled our economy for decades. But more than that, it will make us a proud nation, that cares about its people once again.








Stop letting these wingnut idiots lie their asses off. Read what I wrote above, and compare it to what's actually in the bill. It's really not as long as it sounds, by the way; if the bill was written single spaced, with normal margins, it would probably be a couple of hundred pages at best. But look through it, and what you'll find is a plan that is very thoughtful and measured, and provides access to everyone.








Call your Congressperson and Senators, and ask them one simple question;








Do you REALLY want to be on record as having voted against health insurance for all this year?








This is going to happen. If not this year, then we throw out the assholes who vote against it, and put in someone who will. Our country is becoming second-rate right before our eyes, and one reason is the money we're flushing away on health care for no one, while thousands of people die and thousands of others are pushed to financial ruin.








The fact that the opposition can do nothing but lie to get their point across means that even they believe universal health insurance is necessary. Either that, or they like seeing their rates double every decade...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Ken in South Pleasanton
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Reply to NOT Anti Ken...
I know it is hard for your to support your position, but try anyway. Your response was a nice move in dodge ball, but it doesn't play in a debate on the issues. The fact is that the details of most of our federal laws end up being bashed out after the fact in committees manned by career bureaucrats. The results of their decisions and interpretations are the details followed by the lower level bureaucrats that you and I face when we interact with the agencies.

I'd be interested in your answers regardless of how taxing they might be on my tiny brain. Can you make them up quickly and type them out before this thread disappears into oblivion?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Concerned
a resident of Pheasant Ridge
on Aug 10, 2009 at 3:37 pm

How old is this original poster? Do they have a high school diploma? I just can't believe that someone this ignorant of economics would pay the few bucks to post here.

So what if it becomes "fully in play" in 2017; that is Obama's key tactic small steps, increlmentalism that eventually leads to a single payer system; the nanny state the poster obviously wants because he can not succed with the government taking care of his every need; where the government makes end of life choices based on your condition and the expense of the treatment. Hell, why don't we puch our seniors out to sea on an piece of ice like the Eskimos when they are no longer productive...moron.

Both Buffet and Trump have turned on Obama's economic plan, Buffet first and then Trump, he fooled these smart people too; his "advisors" are now Barny Frank, Pelosi, Ayers, Chavez, castro and Rangall now. He bailed out the banks with OUR HARD EARNED money; those same bank are once again reporting profits because they are NOT lending and are flush with cash...our cash, in some cases and including AIG they are back to paying bonuses too...nice work Obama, now that is change I can believe in...you bailed out the rich while the middle class pays for it in the shorts once again. And how about his "home protetcion plan" how do you like that hope and change? Homes are being foreclosed at a still record rate...failure again. As for the auto industry; now we are in the used car business with cash for clunkers, what happens when this runs out? Its just another Obama band-aide as is everything and the American car industry, owned by the unions will collapse. And ho come he won't release information about which brand people are buying; are the Japanese and Germans getting richer; was that the plan? Obama has no clue about economics; about as much as the poster; hey maybe he can be an advisor. He sure isn't taking about the historically low dollar or the inflation that is sure to happen if we ever do recover. This guy is running this country into a huge mess; with ignorant people like the poster cheering him on. Yeah, we are pissed and you can't shut us up. Get a life...and a job, if you can find one with double digit unemployement, wasnt he Porkulos bill supposed to cap it at 6.5...dumb, dumb, dumb...where has this country gone?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 10, 2009 at 3:51 pm

I certainly want LIMITS in any government plan or any government PAUMENT of a private plan. There must be LIMITS or we "producers" will have to foot a huge bill for the 'NON-producers....enough.
If only we could enforce our "FOUNDERS" idea of INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY".


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Patricia
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Aug 10, 2009 at 4:45 pm

Start Here and Law Student: It's gotta be frustrating, so I just want you to know that I appreciate reading posts by people who have taken the time to read and understand this stuff for themselves. And I hope everyone who's ranting takes the time to read your posts and check the bill to see for themselves. They won't, of course, because they let Rush do their thinking for them. Just like they won't ask questions at town halls and listen to the answers (or even let the rest of us ask and listen). Anyway, thanks for trying.


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Posted by Judi
a resident of Civic Square
on Aug 10, 2009 at 5:11 pm

It's true, we do have to PAY over a decade BEFORE there is any service. Remember we paid into Medicare from the day it started until the day we hit 65....but...alas....it is already bankrupt. No surprise there. All services have to be adjusted downward.


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Posted by DUH!
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Judy!

"It's true, we do have to PAY over a decade BEFORE there is any service"

NOT true, check your facts! We can't read or think for you!


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Posted by Really??
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 5:52 pm

DUH!, Educate?, Billie, Bonnie, etc, etc, AKA ALL THE SAME PERSON

Did you forget your medication today?


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Posted by Really?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:28 pm

This is what you need:

Web Link


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Posted by Really?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:31 pm

Or better yet this:

Web Link

All confiscated from RWR!


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Posted by Bud
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:33 pm

THIS buds for YOU:



Web Link


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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:39 pm

Note: Due to recent political changes that have caused unprecedented demand on certain categories of rifles and accessories, prices on items that are out of stock may change without notice. We are making every effort to obtain necessary quantities of 'HI DEMAND' items, and we will let you know of any increases before shipment


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Posted by Sara Palin
a resident of another community
on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:40 pm

Sarah Palins "goody" shop:



Web Link


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Posted by Alison
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:31 am

You are all so insane! What factual basis do you have? I think everyone that is posting is the same person, including myself.


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Posted by Alison
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:33 am

The above post was not posted by me. Get a life Moron!


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Posted by Dominic DiBlasio
a resident of Del Prado
on Aug 11, 2009 at 7:28 am

Jane:

Although the Republicans did not get everything right the last 8 years, most of the policies of the Bush years promoted personal responsibility not the government will take of you...

How can you honestly use the arguement of Republican spending, which I agree was wrong, considering that in only 6 months the current administration is spending 4x what the last one did and will increase spending more than all other other presidents COMBINED!

My comments on the President are harsh because his leadership is leading us away from the core-american values...here are some specifics:

We have spilled more blood to fight for freedom against tyrants than any other nation in history...We have asked nothing in return for this from those we have defended...Instead of defending this fact, he apologizes for american behavior to dictators no less. This is unprecedented and an embarassment to American leadership...

Irrespective of popular culture today, we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values, one needs to only go to Washington and Philadelphia to see the Hebrew Old Testament inscription on the Liberty Bell and the numerous references to God, American values are on our coin, "In God We Trust," E Pluribus Unum - from one, many and liberty...Obama speaks at Notre Dame and covers the religious symbols that make that are core to that american university...
His choices, look at them are about more government control not personal responsibility which is another american value...

As for Medicaid and Medicare, are you seroius, this bill is going to fix them...Come on, stop believing everything you hear from the left, which is more about pushing their agenda than it is about what is good for you and me and other americans.


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