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Original post made by Teacher on May 27, 2009

It has come to my attention that the theory of evolution is being taught in the public schools in your city of Pleasanton. Any effort to have Scientific Creationism taught is met unreasonble opposition. If the official academic community is divided on the issue, why shouldn't both sides be taught. Teachers need to be sent a message that they need to be responsive to community needs.

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Comments (24)

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 12:29 pm

While I respect your right to post this, and on some level somewhere I might agree with you, you really shouldn't try and disguise yourself as a teacher, per your screen name.

Second of all, it shouldn't have "come to your attention" that PUSD is teaching evolution...this isn't anything new. This is what they teach - period. What do you think has been taught over there until now?

If you are interested in getting Creation Science / Intelligent Design taught in the public schools here in Pleasanton, supported by the parents, you should get that process started by approaching the school board.

If you are not happy with what PUSD teaches your children, then you should take some responsibility and teach it to them yourself. If you cannot, and if you can afford it, you should send them to Valley Christian where they include Creationism as a part of a total look at the Origins of Life.

I respect your choices to teach your children by your educated convictions.

Posted by Just trying, a resident of Foxborough Estates
on May 27, 2009 at 12:30 pm

"Creation science or scientific creationism is the movement within creationism which attempts to provide support for the religious Genesis account of creation, and disprove accepted scientific facts, theories and scientific paradigms on the history of the Earth". This is the first line of your web link. Just because scientific is tagged onto creationism doesn't make it any different. "Providing support for the religious Genesis account" sounds like teaching religion in school. Anyway evolution is a fact and is not disputed by any respected non-religious scientists. This does not mean there is no god. God just created it. Anyway I can't convince you I'm sure, but the bible doesn't say there is no evolution. Genesis gives a decent wrap up on early earth actually if you read it. Void-Beasts-Man. The church persecuted those supporting that the earth went around the sun too. So do you believe in extinction? Do you believe in artificial human selection? Do you think Poodles, Bull Dogs, Persian cats, Angus cattle, Goldfish and other pets and agricultural animals, and crops always existed in there current state? They didn't and humans selected offspring with these traits to 'create' these animals and crops. We still do too (Labradoodles, Miniature Angus, etc.) Nature does the same thing just much more slowly to fill in the gaps from extinction, environmental changes, isolation of species, etc.

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Hi Just trying,

I love these discussions! It is pathetic, but I do!!

I am a Christian and I believe, of course, that God created things. I cannot refute, however, someone who says that the Earth is billions years old. I just believe that God made it, the time question doesn't matter to me. God potentially could've made the earth billions of years ago and then waited, since he isn't bound by time, to create man.

I don't necessarily agree with your statement that Evolution is a fact. Actually, the jury is still out on that. Just because it is presented as the only answer at this point, aside from Creation, doesn't quite make it a fact. It is just the current explanation at this point. It is a basal line that is built upon. The base may not be the real starting point, however.

We really don't know...for sure, since none of us here today were there then to say what happened. It is all faith-based, regardless if you frame it science-faith or faith-science.

Does that make sense?


Posted by Just trying, a resident of Foxborough Estates
on May 27, 2009 at 12:40 pm

No on G is right in that evolution has been taught here for a long, long time in public schools. How is this new to you?
By the way read Origin of Species, The Selfish Gene, and so on to educate your opinion. And yes, I've read the bible. I've gotten into discussions about evolution before and nobody changes their minds it seems. I took many college science courses and one three unit class on evolution itself. It can't be explained or argued completely without months or years of study. So I know I can't say something in a comment to make you or anyone say, "Oh, I get it now."

Posted by parent, a resident of Downtown
on May 27, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Pleasanton is teaching to the State Standards. The State Standards teach evolution. So this is something in all of California.

Posted by Dublinmike, a resident of Dublin
on May 27, 2009 at 12:57 pm

If "Scientific Creationism" is taught I assume the course will include teachings from all religions, major and small.

Also, No on G, "I love these discussions! It is pathetic, but I do!!"...sort of states your view too I guess...

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 12:59 pm

It is so sad that our culture is so against talking and learning. I LOVE science, and am in a medical field, because I feel it is the so super to learn about how God made things. I think it is sad when people try to limit their kids. Especially as Christians. We should educate our children through the world and explain why we believe what we believe, often supported by science, instead of trying to "keep them from it" or try to denounce evolution. Even Einstein said he never intended it to refute a belief in God.

There are people who are extreme on both sides. I think you, Just Trying, sound very reasonable and have a passion and interest in what you have learned. THAT is awesome!


Posted by Just trying, a resident of Foxborough Estates
on May 27, 2009 at 1:02 pm

No on G...
I feel like I'm arguing a ridiculous point in that it is an old argument. The thing is evolution truly is a fact in that it exists. We have seen it occur at some level in even our own lifetimes with artificial selection. This doesn't mean creationism isn't also true. The universe was created, call it god, big bang, whatever. Life was created, call it god's hand or primordial ooze where amino acids were formed and so on. God never has to be eliminated. It is arrogant to demand that he did it without using the medium and and laws that he created. It is arrogant to say that he needed to do more than the big bang to create us. Like when bullet is shot from a gun, it's how it starts that determines where it ends. We can only have faith that he did, and use the scientific method to understand in our own way how and why things are the way they are today. You are right in that nothing can ever be known for sure, even if we exist at all, but have faith we do.

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 1:04 pm


I was trying to say that religion/science/politics is not typically appropriate for social discussion, but I have an interest in it and long to be able to discuss it with others of similar interests. If you find my desire to educate myself and listen to my friends and neighobors opinions as pathetic - then I think you should take a better look at yourself.

I don't think anyone is trying to pick a fight here. Do you often find it necessary to be that rude or do you just do it when you can hide behind a computer screen? I'm pretty sure that's a sign of personality disorder - you should look into it.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on May 27, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

My guess is that this is satire, as it's been posted the same day as the earlier "teaching-disability" article (which came from the Onion, but the poster didn't give credit).

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 1:16 pm

Your opinion is not ridiculous, no matter who has argued it before or how long the argument has gone on. It is where you are at and I think you sound very knowledgable as you work through all you have learned.

Sometimes we can frustrate ourselves and our efforts at trying to convince others, though. Learn, test, question, and discuss. Don't worry about winning a debate or proving anything. It's all pride and arrogance anyway, which you obviously don't display.

If someone told me there was no God, then I would say they haven't experienced him. We have had our separate experiences, but we have the same level of convictions and neither can disprove the other. Unfortuneatly if the discussion deteriorates out of disrespect, much like our friend DublinMike demonstrated above, then we both lose out when the discussion ends.

I am coming around to the integration of creationism and evolution. I strongly believe that God created life, but the method he used is a mystery...and it could be evolution he used! I would say to people who believe in my faith, "why is creation and evolution mutually exclusinve" I would love to know that same question of my friends without a religious faith...just don't get to chat about it much because they aren't "that" into it.

I think God leaves lots of things for us to figure out (through science) because God is cool and not a control freak. He gives us a brain to learn, and doesnt just expect us to be robots.


Posted by AP Reporter, a resident of Bonde Ranch
on May 27, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Wasn't me Stacy I swear. I was just trying to pass on a laugh

Posted by Agree with Stacey, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 1:38 pm

Also thought this thread, like the one on teaching disability was meant to be satire.
Unless someone is trying to say the Pleasanton Unified School District is trying to make monkeys out of the Pleasanton voters with Measure G!

Posted by unclehomerr, a resident of Downtown
on May 27, 2009 at 1:44 pm

Stacy reads The Onion??? I thought I was the only one!


Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 1:48 pm

Agree with Stacey...

LOL! Great sense of humor!!

Posted by Agree with Stacey, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 1:50 pm

Think we all need a bit of comic relief right now!

Posted by No on G, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 2:12 pm


Are YOU the one that posted the article from the "Onion" then??


Posted by Pen, a resident of Bonde Ranch
on May 27, 2009 at 2:22 pm

I promise you it wasn't me. I admit I put the Make-A-Wish and teacher's disability article up. I was trying to give a laugh to those embroiled in the G measure. I don't know who put this up or their intensions. They have remained silent since the post. Still some good debate here generally speaking.

Posted by what is a fact?, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 27, 2009 at 6:33 pm

Um, I don't think evolution is a fact. Evolution is a theory.

A theory can be completely unsupported. Evolution is a theory that is supported by many different facts.

I have not seen any facts that disprove the theory of evolution.

Evolution's still a theory -- an imperfect explanation of the facts. It seems to be the best theory we've got.

Posted by just trying, a resident of Foxborough Estates
on May 27, 2009 at 6:49 pm

It is both...
Stephen J. Gould has put this as well as anyone else:

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."
Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

Posted by Um, no, a resident of another community
on May 27, 2009 at 6:52 pm

Um, I think you need to look up the definition of the word "theory." I'm still debating if the original poster was being facetious our not, but you may find this helpful.

n., pl. -ries.

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Posted by Puhleese, a resident of Avignon
on May 27, 2009 at 7:52 pm

Why don't you folks all go start your own country where you can combine church & state?Oh wait, We have that country it's Iran. Guess they have it right?

Posted by well well well, a resident of Pheasant Ridge
on May 27, 2009 at 11:25 pm

Um- You either didn't read what J. Gould (One of the greatest scientific minds of our time)wrote and/or you are so entrenched in your beliefs you refuse to understand it.

Posted by unclehomerr.., a resident of Downtown
on May 28, 2009 at 7:40 am

'-) NO!


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