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Teacher salary freezes

Original post made by Fairlands Resident on Apr 23, 2009

I am looking for more information because the information I've been receiving has been conflicting.
I've been told by parcel tax supporters that it is not possible for PUSD to freeze teacher raises (step & column) because of California Ed Code.
But not only do I see that other California school districts are negotiating with their unions about teacher salaries, but PUSD classified employees I know have told me that it is possible for PUSD to negotiate with the Pleasanton teachers' union (APT) about step and column.
It doesn't seem reasonable that there would be a law preventing our school district from negotiating directly with our teachers' union.
If there is a law that prevents this, or something in California Ed code, would someone please post that information?

Comments (87)

Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 23, 2009 at 4:53 pm

Ahhh, to have a state law requiring forced pay INCREASES. This can only happen in the world of government.

We folks here in the real world are having our pay DECREASED. Only today the company I work for, a fortune 500 company, announced that the company 401K match is being cut in half, which is equivalent to up to a 3 percent salary cut for many.


Posted by Donna, a resident of California Reflections
on Apr 23, 2009 at 5:40 pm

I was at a public forum where Superintendent John Casey told the community that step&column is legislated and not a negotiable item. People now believe it but I don't think it is true. I would like to know the real answer also.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 6:46 pm

The teacher's union voted for a two-day decrease in work next year, which amounts to a reduction in step and column (and and average $1000 annual pay decrease). I hope this answers your question.


Posted by Brandon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 6:52 pm

Let's straighten out GTF's version of the fact.

Teachers voted to decrease a 2-day pay for days that they aren't even working! No, they're not vacation days, those are what they call "Development Days". *cough* *cough*

And there's a catch! They'll only give up their 2 paid time-off days if the parcel tax passes. Otherwise, they're still entitled to use those 2 days to sip margaritas at the poolside.


Posted by Julie, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 7:11 pm

Julie is a registered user.

Staff Development days are exactly that - days set aside for meetings, trainings, etc. - not sipping margaritas. Just because they are not teaching doesn't mean they aren't working. I know a lot of people (making tons more than teachers) who spend much of their work day in meetings and trainings - does that mean they are not working? I agree it's better to put the staff development days on the chopping block before instructional days, but let's not spread lies or exaggerations.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 23, 2009 at 8:02 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

I suspect this misconception stems from the Education Code section 45023 Web Link Read it for yourself and tell me if you think it means that districts must pay out increases every year.

"The governing board of each school district shall adopt and
cause to be printed and made available to each certificated employee
a schedule of salaries to be paid."

Another clue, just take a look at the District's own publication from Jan. 8th entitled "Cabinet identified cuts". Web Link Scroll down to the bottom section where it says "Negotiable Items for Consideration". Notice there's a line item which says "Defer Step and Column Increases". Also notice how much that is. That increase is additive. It turns into $15MM paid out over four years.

Or why not just call the District? If you don't trust their answer, call the CA Department of Education.

It would be nice if the pro-tax supporters did their homework properly.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 23, 2009 at 8:04 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Donna wrote: "I was at a public forum where Superintendent John Casey told the community that step&column is legislated and not a negotiable item."

If that's true, Casey is definitely not doing the pro-tax folks any favors. How does he think that looks when he supposedly makes comments like that and then citizens go try to verify that information and find out the opposite?


Posted by Russell, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:17 pm

And here again we have attacks on the teachers. This time coming from someone named Brandon.

Let me repeat what I've said before. Pleasanton teachers are doing a great job. Pleasanton schools are among the best in California. Our children are getting good educations here -- far better than children are getting in many other communities. As long as people keep attacking the schools, principals, and teachers, I will keep defending them.

Brandon, do you think Pleasanton's teachers are irresponsible? Are they doing a bad job?


Posted by Russell, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:23 pm

@Stacey

You use the term "pro-tax". Do you mean pro measure G? I think it is is crazy to be pro-tax or anti-tax in general. Shouldn't we have the right amount of tax?

People like Phil Gramm thought we should "starve the government". He seemed to think that taxes were always too high, no matter how much the government spent. He also thought we needed less regulation of investment banks and financial services companies. I think the country has had enough of his ideas. We all saw how that worked out.


Posted by Russell, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm

@Get The Facts

Just to make sure I understand you, you're saying that the two day decrease in work results in a net reduction in pay for next year, even when accounting for the step and column increases?


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:27 pm

Thank you Stacey for providing the Ed Code. I wasn't sure where to look. I will also take your advice and call the School District office too.
I did not mean for my post to invite any criticism of teachers. I was just trying to make sense of something that didn't make sense.


Posted by tax revolt 2, a resident of Country Fair
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:34 pm

tax revolt 2 is a registered user.

GetTheFacts - Step and Column is formally negotiated between PUSD and the APT. Show the voters where 'reduction in step and column' was agreed to. If you can't, stop spreading mistruths. And yes, to all the voters, get the facts at PleasantonParcelTaxInfo.com (Web Link)


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:42 pm

So, let's GET THE FACTS. Above poster says:

"The teacher's union voted for a two-day decrease in work next year, which amounts to a reduction in step and column (and and average $1000 annual pay decrease). I hope this answers your question."

Teacher pay is therefore over $60 per hour ($1000 divided by 16 work hours - this implies a 2000 hour work year would mean everyone is making over $120K and a 1500 hour work year would mean everyone is making $90K ). Can this really be? Is it the case that Pleasanton teachers only work about 9 months of the year and their average pay is $90K per year? Wow!

So, in the spirit of getting the facts, I found a source that says there are about 700 teachers in the Pleasanton school system (certificated salaries).

Web Link

The PUSD budget for 2008-2009 calls for $73 MM to pay their salaries.

Web Link

So, if all of you critical thinkers out there can still do the arithmetic you were taught you will find this simple division problem results is an average salary of $104K! Not too different from the $90K inferred above. The variation here is probably due to what the actual number of teachers there are in the budget. The school district obfuscates this number by not making it readily available on its web site or in its budget documents.

By the way, 700 times $1000 of sacrifice is only $700K, while each year forever they get an additional $1.5 MM raise which aggregates. So, the give back is less than 1/2 of the step and column increase and only for this year.

GET THE FACTS, then analyze them to clear the smoke!


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:50 pm

Me again...I just found some information on the Ed Data Partnership Website, Web Link
It states that wages, benefits and hours of employment are all items school districts negotiate with the teachers' union.
So I guess I answered my own question - that is, if this website is reliable, but it appears to be a California government website, so I think it is.
Maybe others can check out the Ed Data Website - there was an article called Negotiating Teachers' Contracts in California dated October 2003 on the website. I can't get a link to the article, but here's the relevant portion:

According to Senate Bill 160 (1975), the Rodda Act, the school board and the union must meet at least once every three years. The result of this negotiating determines the salaries and benefits, hours, calendar, and most aspects of teachers' working conditions—as well as attempting to solve problems and address new issues that have arisen during the period of the contract.

Also,
Contents of a Typical Teachers' Contract

Compensation: cost-of-living adjustment, salary schedule, pay for specific duties (department chair, coach), minimum teacher salaries, expenses, travel reimbursement, tuition reimbursement, mentor teacher selection process
Benefits: health and welfare premiums, specific plans offered, retiree benefits
Hours: length of work day, work year, student year, calendar (holidays, vacations), minimum days, preparation periods, lunch
Leaves: bereavement, pregnancy, child rearing, religious, sick leave, disability, sabbatical, personal need/necessity, jury duty, military, industrial accident/illness, catastrophic illness
Retirement: early retirement, benefits
Nondiscrimination

Job assignment: assignment, promotion, transfer, reassignment
Class size and caseloads: pupils per teacher, students per counselor, number of teaching periods, instructional aides
Safety conditions
Evaluation: procedures and remediation
Grievance: procedures, appeal process, mediation, arbitration
Discipline: procedures and criteria
Layoff and Reemployment

Organizational security: payroll deduction of union dues ("agency fee"), maintenance of membership, fair share fees, union rights
Work stoppage: "no-strikes" clause
Contract: duration, reopeners
Savings clause: contract in effect if portion invalidated by court, legislature
Management rights: authority "to the full extent of the law"
Consultation: topics, procedures

EdSource 3/99


Maybe there's changes since this information was published, but if not, then it does seem as if salaries are negotiable. But why would PUSD say the law says step and column isn't negotiable? Isn't step & column part of salaries? Or am I confusing step & column with salaries?


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:53 pm

Russell:

Many teachers will be taking a pay cut. I will be. Some teachers are up for a step, and will break even. Some will come out ahead. (Don't forget the health care costs that come out of our pocket and are going up again for next year.) But of the 30 years listed on the S & C chart, only 14 include an increase (assuming you are in the right-hand column, which most teachers are). So in less than half of your teaching years, you will get an S & C increase. So yes, it is a reduction in pay for myself and many others.

tax revolt 2:

Step and Column may not be formally negotiated (I really have no idea how that works on the micro level), but I do know that next year's pay cut will be an adjustment in the S & C chart. It will look different than the 08-09 chart, in that every single box will have a LOWER number! So what else do you want to hear, that is "a 'reduction in step and column' " that was agreed to!

Brandon:

"Teachers voted to decrease a 2-day pay for days that they aren't even working! No, they're not vacation days, those are what they call "Development Days". *cough* *cough*

And there's a catch! They'll only give up their 2 paid time-off days if the parcel tax passes. Otherwise, they're still entitled to use those 2 days to sip margaritas at the poolside."

The people of this city asked for a "shared sacrifice", so we offered one up. If the tax passes, we give two days (complain about the fact that they are "staff development days" all you want, but they are not days that directly affect the kids), and if it doesn't, then you clearly have voted at the ballot box that you do not want a shared sacrifice, so we will be happy to step away from ours as well. By the way, I live in Pleasanton, so it will cost me the parcel tax plus my pay cut (over $1000), and I will be paying more in health care. I'd say I'm doing my part of the shared sacrifice so many have asked for.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:57 pm

Frank:

If you want to try to do the numbers game, fine, do your math. But do it with correct numbers: There are 780 certificated staff in the PUSD, not 700. Off by over 10%, nice work.


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:58 pm

Pleasanton teachers, you are doing a great job, but can you do it for a more reasonable pay rate? You're killing us taxpayers!

I am for big government doing the job it should be doing. I want really big government doing all of the things we hired you to do. Obama, you are on the right track. But can't you folks in government do it with less money? Why the waste with paying big salaries and benefits for life? You're killing us taxpayers!

We all know the story of the golden goose, and government is NOT IT!


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:07 pm

Thank you very much. So, based upon Get the facts response, he/she puts its primatur on my conclusion that Pleasanton teachers average $93.6K per year for 9 months of work!!!!!!!!!!

Shame on me for clearly saying that my calculation had a variation based upon teacher number and therefore correcting me, resulting in agreeing that Pleasanton teachers are clearly OVERPAID with an average salary of $93.6K per year. WOW, WOW, WOW!

And the teacher's union together with the management of the school district and no less than the Board of Trustees wants taxpayers to cough up another $233 per year parcel tax. Incredible!!!


Posted by Confused Enough, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:10 pm

Get the facts has stated the the teachers are giving up 2 work days next year that will average a loss of $1,000.00 or $500.00 a day.
Now am I to understand that teachers make $500.00/Day, $2,500.00/Week, $10,000.00/Month, $120,000.00/Year. Can you see my confusion? Somebody needs to straighten me out if they know the answer because I'm an Envir. Eng. and I still go to school and I don't make that much (oh ya, I did take a cut and a freeze)


Posted by Get out of the wagon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:13 pm

Frank,

You've got it! Welcome to the NO on Measure G club!! Our membership is growing rapidly from all sides. Wrong is wrong.

See you at the Polls!


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:34 pm

Get the facts.... your lament to Russell and tax revolt 2 in the above post needs to be called out. Basically, you say your salary is being cut, but this is UNTRUE because at the same time you are saying a salary cut is happening because health insurance contribution is going up and you have run out of step and column increases because of longevity. You have already enjoyed and benefitted from this travesty perpetrated upon taxpayers and are spinning your situation into one of a salary cut, which is not true. I conclude you are already enjoying a base salary that is at the top of the chart.

Finally, on your claim that some future salary schedule will have lower numbers in the boxes is a theoretical that originates only with your assertion in this post with no corroboration. Even if it were to happen, no one ever gets a salary cut unless it is specifically agreed to, and we will then hear about it.

Web Link

By the way, everyone is the private sector, which is the golden goose supplying your salary, has the same problem.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:51 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Perhaps the numbers are skewed. Certificated staff doesn't include just teachers so it's confusing when one says the number of certificated staff is 780 and we all think that means teachers. Anyone managing teachers has to have a certificate apparently (uh, why?) and even counselors need some certificate. But managers/principals and I think counselors too are paid on a different salary schedule apparently and there's no CA law that requires them to have a salary schedule. The California Dept of Ed runs the Ed-Data website and reports the average teacher salaries. I guess they know how to properly subtract all the other non-teacher certificated staff that the average taxpayer and voter gets lost on.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 23, 2009 at 11:53 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Russell,

Considering that the context of my earlier post was the Measure G parcel tax, why would "pro-tax" mean anything other than about Measure G?


Posted by julie, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 6:52 am

julie is a registered user.

I have never been under the impression that in general teachers make as much money as suggested here. But, if they do - why all the hostility?

I know PLENTY of people (e.g. engineers, accountants, salespeople, etc.) who earn 90-110k/year (PLUS) and they DON'T have to pay entirely for their health benefits as Pleasanton teachers do. In fact, they have options and 401k matches and other financial perks that may not be worth a lot now, but were and are when times are good. Why is everyone so incensed at the very thought that the people who are paid to care for and educate our children make what many people are paid to take care of money or sell things? Teachers require quite a bit of education to boot. And, they don't work 9 months a year - it's more like 10. Most teachers I've known work well in excess of a 9 month year/8 hour day. Remember, teachers didn't cause this budget crisis - why not direct your hostility toward those who deserve it, or better yet let go of it? Obsessing about teacher salaries and work hours will not solve a budget crisis.


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 7:36 am

Get the facts,
You said in your post that step & column may not be formally negotiated.
Can you tell me where that information can be found? I've read through the Ed Code section someone posted, and I looked up information from a website called Ed Data, and it seemed as if step and column is something that local districts can negotiate with their unions. Is Step & column separate from salaries?

Julie, I'm not incensed about what teachers make...I'm just trying to figure out what's true because I keep hearing conflicting information.



Posted by Joe, a resident of Downtown
on Apr 24, 2009 at 8:27 am

To Julie:
The point is that if teachers are as well paid as rumor seems to have it, then they can afford to at least endure a wage freeze until the economy rebounds. If the district is asking property owners and not all residents to help them in their "crisis", then they can ask their employees to do the same.
I think a lot of this salary "confusion" may be due to "Get the facts" not really having the facts.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 8:58 am

Thanks, julie, for your support. We teachers feel real beat up from the posts here.

I have a freind who works for Kaiser. My Kaiser rates are going up next year, as they always do, yet I am not asking him to take a pay cut to subsidize my health care. Why the community is asking us for a cut (which we have responded to and have in place for next year), I have no idea.

Teachers have summers off, yes they do, but that comes with the territory. Most teachers work their tails off all year long, stay late at least one night a week (or come in on the weekend at least once) all year long, and go to classes in the summer. So yes, there are breaks worked in, but often they are filled with work. (Many teachers work summer school, so much for a summer off.)

frank:
I am not at the top of the salary. This is the problem with many posts, you are taking guesses. Like I said before, 16 of 30 years do NOT come with a Step & Column increase. I will be taking a 527 dollar decrease each day for two days.

Confused enough:
I do not make 120,000. Our salary is based upon 176 work days. I will take a two-day cut amounting to 1054 dollars. I will also have a 4% increasse in my health care costs, offhand I have no idea what that is. I also own in Pleasanton, and will be paying the parcel tax, if passed.

Fairland resident:
I said that "Step and Column may not be formally negotiated (I really have no idea how that works on the micro level)". I really don't know how that works. I am not here making guesses like Frank, and posting incorrect numbers like Frank. I don't post here if I don't know the correct facts.

Stacey:
The number of certificated staff (you must have a teaching certificate or something in that category, like psycologists have a similar certificate, to be on the certificated scale) is 780. That includes counselors, psycologists, reading specialists, etc. It may or may not include site administrators, I don't think it does, but I could be wrong. If it does, lower that number to about 750.


Posted by Just Asking, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 9:12 am

Get the facts,
If you are a teacher,as you have written, then how do you find time to post during school hours. I'm not trying to be mean, but shouldn't you be teaching or are you more than one person?


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 9:49 am

Get the facts,
Still confused...so are you saying that step & column may or may not be negotiated by local school districts and unions, but you don't know or are you saying
Step & column may NOT be formally negotiated?
That's the problem with postings versus live discussion - what someone means when they write something isn't always the way it's interpreted.

Hopefully your friend at Kaiser doesn't work in IT - Kaiser just eliminated 500 CA jobs when they outsourced their work to IBM.


Posted by Facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 9:51 am

Frank & get the facts, neither of you must have ever ran a business. The Salary budget is fully burdened, including things like payroll tax (7.54% FICA, and Medicare) plus SUI, FUTA. (some of the older teacher are granfathered out of FICA by Fed law or I would give you a better number for average salary. But you are off by a good percentage.


Posted by ChangedmyMind, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 10:10 am

To Get the facts***I really don't think that you are doing your cause any favors with your posts. You tell confused enough that you will lose $1054 for a 2 day give-back, leaving you with 174 work days at $527/day or only $91,689.00/year and you don't think that a pay freeze is in order until economic conditions improve and that property owners should pay for your raises. Your are changing a lot of people's minds, keep up the good work because with your comments the No-G people have nothing to worry about.


Posted by Pleasanton Parent, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 11:00 am

Posted by Get the facts:

"I have a freind who works for Kaiser. My Kaiser rates are going up next year, as they always do, yet I am not asking him to take a pay cut to subsidize my health care. Why the community is asking us for a cut (which we have responded to and have in place for next year), I have no idea.

Teachers have summers off, yes they do, but that comes with the territory. Most teachers work their tails off all year long, stay late at least one night a week (or come in on the weekend at least once) all year long, and go to classes in the summer. So yes, there are breaks worked in, but often they are filled with work. (Many teachers work summer school, so much for a summer off.)

I do not make 120,000. Our salary is based upon 176 work days. I will take a two-day cut amounting to 1054 dollars. I will also have a 4% increasse in my health care costs, offhand I have no idea what that is. I also own in Pleasanton, and will be paying the parcel tax, if passed. "


GTF:
I don't know why you think the rise in healthcare costs justifies your step and column increases. Guess what, my cost of healthcare is rising as well - and I took a salary cut this year in addition to 20 forced days off (paid or unpaid depending on vacation time available).

Do you think I only work 40hrs a week? My salary is based on that assumption, but guess what, a 50-60hr work week is standard for most in the private sector.

You make $92,752 to work 176 days out of the year. If you choose to work summers you make more, as summer school is additional income to teachers.

The fundamental problem is you think your two days off is a sacrifice - its not in comparison to what the rest of us are going through. It speaks volumes to how insulated you are from the current economic distress when you think taking a salary freeze and two days non paid is a sacrifice.....give me a break.







Posted by Pleasanton Parent, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 11:00 am

Posted by Get the facts:

"I have a freind who works for Kaiser. My Kaiser rates are going up next year, as they always do, yet I am not asking him to take a pay cut to subsidize my health care. Why the community is asking us for a cut (which we have responded to and have in place for next year), I have no idea.

Teachers have summers off, yes they do, but that comes with the territory. Most teachers work their tails off all year long, stay late at least one night a week (or come in on the weekend at least once) all year long, and go to classes in the summer. So yes, there are breaks worked in, but often they are filled with work. (Many teachers work summer school, so much for a summer off.)

I do not make 120,000. Our salary is based upon 176 work days. I will take a two-day cut amounting to 1054 dollars. I will also have a 4% increasse in my health care costs, offhand I have no idea what that is. I also own in Pleasanton, and will be paying the parcel tax, if passed. "


GTF:
I don't know why you think the rise in healthcare costs justifies your step and column increases. Guess what, my cost of healthcare is rising as well - and I took a salary cut this year in addition to 20 forced days off (paid or unpaid depending on vacation time available).

Do you think I only work 40hrs a week? My salary is based on that assumption, but guess what, a 50-60hr work week is standard for most in the private sector.

You make $92,752 to work 176 days out of the year. If you choose to work summers you make more, as summer school is additional income to teachers.

The fundamental problem is you think your two days off is a sacrifice - its not in comparison to what the rest of us are going through. It speaks volumes to how insulated you are from the current economic distress when you think taking a salary freeze and two days non paid is a sacrifice.....give me a break.







Posted by Diana, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Interesting that this thread went quiet when "get the facts' who has said he/she is a teacher at Vintage Hills School, was called out for posting during school hours.
This is the second time this has happened. Someone should call the principle at Vintage Hills to tell them what their teachers are doing during district time.


Posted by Parent of Two, a resident of Val Vista
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Parent of Two is a registered user.

I wouldn't assume that GTF is really a teacher. There are far too many misspellings, grammatical errors, and erroneous statements for me to think that GTF has even completed high school, let alone college or a credential program.

Much more likely GTF is an office administrator on the chopping block than an educator.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:32 pm

Diana, I never said I was a teacher at Vintage Hills. This is one of the problems of these postings, the facts are simply not there. Please do not insinuate that I work at a site when I have never stated where I work. Call the principal all you want, but since I don't work there, you would be insulting all the great people who do work there.

For those concerned about my posting during the day, not that it is any of your business, but I took some days off for a personal matter this week. Had a few extra minutes today. Can I do that on my personal day, can I get your permission?


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:35 pm

Parent of Two:

I am a teacher, and a proud one. I am not a great speller, my apologies if my spelling and gramatical errors offend you. What should really bother you is people posting false information, which I am not.


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 1:16 pm


To Get the Facts....I believe the post below is also yours. In it you say you are willing to go without pay raises, take a pay cut, etc. just don't touch your S & C.

So again I ask, what's the difference between pay raises and step & column?

Since there's no such thing as merit pay, aren't the only pay raises teachers get from Step & Column?

So if you're willing to go without pay raises, then wouldn't that mean you're willing to freeze S & C?

I'll say this for you - at least you don't pretend that you disagree with the no on parcel tax supporters and use the "it's good for the kids" as your sole argument. You admit, and your postings support this, that much of your argument for the parcel tax has to do with how much money you will or won't get, now and when you retire.

=============================================================




Posted by Get the facts, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Apr 13, 2009 at 8:14 am

Kathleen:

There you go with the 7% reserve thing again. As I said before, we were on the way, but bad times came. Besides this, that 4% would help us one-time, to only about half of the problem. I can't disagree with you that 7% was a good goal, but unlike one district which had a 17% reserve (this is a basic aid district, I'm guessing you know what that means), the extra 4% couldn't have carried us through this time. Do you propose that we spend the extra reserve all in one shot, or spread it out over a few years? Either way, not enough.

I'm also tired of the step and column arguement. If you would teach for 30 years, and had no other raises, you would receive a step and column increase in less than half of your years as a teacher. If you teach more than 30 years, then every year extra you would not receive a Step and column increase. Step and column is looked at differenty, more like a sales bonus structure. S & C basically says: if you work this many years, here is what you will get. So you and many others want to freeze one of the promises made when teachers go into the profession: the promise of this salary at this many years or this salary at this many units earned. Meanwhile, our health benefits go up every year.

Let me put it to you this way: I didn't get a raise last year, I won't get one for many years to come, I won't get a step increase for a couple of years (until I hit the next one), I am taking two unpaid days next year (which will cost me more than four years of the property tax, all in one year), and my health care will go up every year whether or not I get a raise. And you want to freeze my step and column too? I don't think so.

I didn't cause this problem, yet I am willing to go without raises, take a pay cut next year, and pay out more for health care, but I draw the line at S & C, which will most adversely affect those close to retirement.

Keep your eye on the ball: Sacramento caused this problem, we shouldn't have to solve it, yet we have already helped with the solution.


Posted by Community of Character, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 1:19 pm

GTF: If you're serious about getting all the facts, go read this:

Web Link

I don't see how you can ignore these facts in your lame and weak arguments.

And in case you're wondering, we do work overtime daily, weekly, and weekends in the real world. Better yet, we do this 12 months out of the year.


Posted by Pleasanton Parent, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 1:21 pm

GTF - I don't think its unreasonable for you to be posting during school hours, obviously those of us posting are doing so during business hours (kind of a kettle calling the pot black). I also don't believe you are a "bad" teacher because of your views on this issue, the two are unrelated in my opinion. I do hope you approach teaching our youth with the same passion you obviously have taken up with this issue. That level of interest in our children's education is what will continue to make Pleasanton Schools strong...and for that I thank you.

I'm still voting No on G however - so long as the district is planning on paying out step and column increases.


Posted by Pleasanton Parent, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 1:33 pm

I'm also tired of the step and column arguement. If you would teach for 30 years, and had no other raises, you would receive a step and column increase in less than half of your years as a teacher. If you teach more than 30 years, then every year extra you would not receive a Step and column increase. Step and column is looked at differenty, more like a sales bonus structure. S & C basically says: if you work this many years, here is what you will get. So you and many others want to freeze one of the promises made when teachers go into the profession: the promise of this salary at this many years or this salary at this many units earned. Meanwhile, our health benefits go up every year.

Let me put it to you this way: I didn't get a raise last year, I won't get one for many years to come, I won't get a step increase for a couple of years (until I hit the next one), I am taking two unpaid days next year (which will cost me more than four years of the property tax, all in one year), and my health care will go up every year whether or not I get a raise. And you want to freeze my step and column too? I don't think so.

I didn't cause this problem, yet I am willing to go without raises, take a pay cut next year, and pay out more for health care, but I draw the line at S & C, which will most adversely affect those close to retirement.

Keep your eye on the ball: Sacramento caused this problem, we shouldn't have to solve it, yet we have already helped with the solution.

Again, a sales bonus structure is based on revenue coming in from sales. Measure G is asking the tax payers for money because funds from the government are not available - essentially revenue for the schools is missing. In the private sector, if sales aren't there, you're not getting a sales bonus.

Our healthcare benenfits cost goes up each year as well. We're experiencing the same increases, but we're not seeing raises, increases, or anything of the like - instead we're facing salary cuts, benefit reductions, and layoffs.

Again, I trully feel that you don't have a full appreciation of what effect the economy is having on the majority of families. The "sacrafices" the community is asking you to make in favor of the parcel tax are far less than those we have been experiencing - yet you can't understand or appreciate that. In fact, most of us would love to be able to say we only had to take two unpaid days off and that the limit to our loss of income was only that raises/increases/bonuses were put on hold.


Posted by Questions, a resident of Lydiksen Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 1:45 pm

To "Get the Facts"
I appreciate that you are trying to hve a reasonable dialogue in this forum but by your name and posts you are writing as if you are using factual numbers and others are not. I need to ask you some questions about your 'facts.'

First, you stated above that your work year is based on 176 days but I have heard from the district that it is 185, of which 180 are teaching. That would be confirmed by this statement printed a few weeks ago in this paper after the 2 concession days were announced.

"Before agreeing to the concession, the teachers' union sought assurances that rendering service on 183 days would constitute a full year of service and would be reported as a full year."

Would you explain how you come up with 176 days? You also claim to not be at the top of the salary scale but then this statement from Mr. Knaggs in the same article would be incorrect. Can you explain?

"Knaggs said teachers "will be sacrificing" between $652.00 and $1,059 in salary in the concession depending on their position on the salary scale."

Lastly, I am hoping you can shed light on what your contract specifies for these personal days. How many are you entitled to each year? Are there different days available for illness or is it one description such as sick/personal days as so many companies are doing? Will you please confirm whether you are paid for these days or must take them without pay?

And then, do you know the rate per day that the district pays for a substitute to cover your classroom?

Trust me, I certainly do want to get the facts. And I double check what I read and hear. Thank you for responding to my questions.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 2:15 pm

Questions:

It looks like I goofed on the days, I thought it was 176. I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I would trust Mr. Knagg's numbers before mine, but I am trying to get things correct.

We get seven personal days, which turn into illness days the next year when not used. We get 5 sick days, which also roll over when not used. Most teachers have mnay, many sick days piled up, because it is pain to call in sick, it is easier to go in sick then prepare a lesson plan.

I do not know the sub rate, I was not a sub in this district,


Posted by Still Asking, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 2:16 pm

Get the facts
I'm still asking...if you are a teacher how do you find time to post during normal school hours. Is it on breaks, or lunch ??? and are you using school computers or the school internet which my taxes pay for. I think you are just conning this post with your "facts". I will ignore you from now on.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 3:16 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

This is simple. Go to the Ed-Data website, run by the California Department of Education, and look up the average teacher salary for PUSD. Or look at the convenient screenshot provided at www.PleasantonParcelTaxInfo.com Web Link

Ed-Data lists the average teacher salary in PUSD at $81,446 for the 2007-2008 school year. It doesn't yet have 2008-2009 data available, but given step and column increases plus the 3.382% COLA increase from that year (reported on PUSD's budget FAQ here Web Link), that average is obviously higher for 2008-2009. (COLA increase to avg comes out to $84,200 for 2008-2009 before adding in S&C)


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 24, 2009 at 3:36 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Ed-Data is great!

Web Link

Of Certificated Staff...
772 teachers
47 administrators
71 pupil services

890 total certificated staff in 2007-2008


GTF says the number of certificated staff is 780 and guesses that the number of teachers is 750. Did we lose over 100 certificated staff between 2007/2008 and 2008/2009 with roughly half of those as teachers?


Posted by julie, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 3:55 pm

julie is a registered user.

"Ed-Data lists the average teacher salary in PUSD at $81,446 for the 2007-2008 school year"

Average means that half the teachers make more than 81,446 and half of them make less. So, they aren't all making in the 90k & 100k's.


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 24, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Careful, Julie. You just defined the median, not average. They equal each other only when the distribution is symmetric. (Where are the math teachers?) But, yes, some make more and some make less.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 5:39 pm

Posted by Gtf: "Most teachers have mnay, many sick days piled up, because it is pain to call in sick, it is easier to go in sick then prepare a lesson plan."

What you really neglect to mention is that sick days are used for retirement purposes as well.

I'm trying to maintain the high ground, but you sure make it difficult.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 5:42 pm

Still asking:

Already answered you comment/question in an earlier post. Here it is again:

"For those concerned about my posting during the day, not that it is any of your business, but I took some days off for a personal matter this week. Had a few extra minutes today. Can I do that on my personal day, can I get your permission?"

And as Pleasanton Parent said:

"GTF - I don't think its unreasonable for you to be posting during school hours, obviously those of us posting are doing so during business hours (kind of a kettle calling the pot black). I also don't believe you are a "bad" teacher because of your views on this issue, the two are unrelated in my opinion. I do hope you approach teaching our youth with the same passion you obviously have taken up with this issue. That level of interest in our children's education is what will continue to make Pleasanton Schools strong...and for that I thank you."

PP makes a good point, I bet lots of these are from work.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 5:47 pm

Kathleen, I have no idea how sick days work in retirement, I am way too far from retirement too worry about that. I just know I'd rather work sick than put together a lesson plan. And I can't stand it when I am called into meeting on student days, I'd rather be with the students.

I also don't want to use sick days because I know many teachers who have had to be out for long periods due to injury or prolonged health problems. They have benefited from days accrued.

And I really don't get the "high ground" comment. Aren't most of us trying to do that? So good of you to give yourself a pat on the back.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 24, 2009 at 6:11 pm

Gtf: Sick days are accrued for retirement; they're used if there is a long term illness or injury.

You have to have a plan for teaching your lessons anyway; jeopardizing your students' health so you don't have to write it down sounds lazy.

No, not everyone stays on the high ground. Not patting myself on the back at all, just admitting I'm tempted to be more sarcastic.


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 24, 2009 at 6:25 pm

To the poster who posted this:

"Frank & get the facts, neither of you must have ever ran a business. The Salary budget is fully burdened, including things like payroll tax (7.54% FICA, and Medicare) plus SUI, FUTA. (some of the older teacher are granfathered out of FICA by Fed law or I would give you a better number for average salary. But you are off by a good percentage."

First of all, payroll based expenses ARE employee compensation. If they are not to be treated as such, then let's just convert everybody to a Schedule C independent contractor and pay them their gross salary. See what happens then!

Next, the number of $73 MM for certificated salaries IS JUST salaries because the budget breaks out Employee Benefits of $16 MM as a separate line item. This line item also covers Classified Salaries, which are budgeted at $16 MM. Which line item FICA and Medicare is put into is anybody's guess. It doesn't matter, though.

So, what we really need to do is add a portion of the $16 MM to the $73 MM to get total compensation for the Certificated Salaries.

Need I do the math to show the average total compensation number gets a lot bigger? Yes, I need to. Adding the appropriate pro rata proportion of the Employee Benefits to the $73 MM and dividing by a head count of 780 the answer is: $110K is the out-of-pocket compensation that taxpayers have to pay for each certificated employee.

The one variable that will make this number go down is identifying the actual number of certificated employees. It likely includes others that are not counted in the 780 count of teachers. Management is probably in this number and their high salaries will skew this average to the high number that it already is.

Nevertheless, this school district as a whole is really really rich and the numbers show it!

One last glaring item that nobody brings up. In the budget there is line item of $23.6 MM called "pass through expenditures". I could not find any itemization that describes what this is. I also noticed that it increases each year. This kind of hidden accounting does nothing but raise suspicion of government ripping the taxpayer. Why can't a little sunshine be cast on this line item? I suspect it includes payment of benefits to retirees and bond interest.


Posted by frank, a resident of Pleasanton Heights
on Apr 24, 2009 at 6:45 pm

Putting the earlier stated (Stacey above) 890 certificated salary headcount into the calculation brings total compensation per certificated employee down to $97K. Wow, what a rich district!


Posted by Doesn't know the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 10:15 pm

Hey "Get the Facts"

You really need to take a step back and look at your posts. No one owes you a dime. Get a second job if you need more money. And, I know you are "riding it out" until the end of the year, but maybe you should spend a little more time earning what we have paid you instead of spending all your time posting inaccuracies here. I'm worried you are taking this work ethic into the classroom.

Why don't you take a break from posting here and spend time double check your facts in your lesson plans this weekend.

Thanks,
A few of your bosses


Posted by Brandon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 24, 2009 at 11:57 pm

I've been working for over 30 years and this is the first time I hear sick days can be rolled over and used for retirement. In the private sector, it's use it or lose it. Teachers have got to love the gravy train ride. Time to pull the plug and let them get a taste of reality.


Posted by facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 9:44 am

Brandon,

That is not true everywhere. Our company rolls sick and vacation together. When you retire, you get a check for those days at your retiring salary. That is why we are encouraged to use ours and not roll them over.


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 10:07 am

Facts...do you work for the government?
It's true that most government agencies allow their employees to accumulate sick and vacation days and get paid for untaken days upon retirement.
But in the private sector, most companies only allow employees to roll over those days to the next calendar year. Even those companies that had once allowed sick days to be paid when employees left the company are rethinking that policy, especially in this economy.
Brandon, you made a good point when you signed your last post "A few of your bosses."
While teachers' paychecks may be issued from PUSD, ultimately the taxpayers are the bosses. As employees everywhere else seem to understand, the bosses are the ones who determine salaries, layoffs, etc. And like employees everywhere else PUSD teachers have the option of seeking employment elsewhere if they aren't happy with the bosses' decisions.
It seems that your argument against salary freezes is that teachers make less money than many of the people who live in Pleasanton. There are many people in Pleasanton who make less than teachers, and they've lost their jobs, or had their hours or pay cut, including PUSD classified employees.
Where's your anger on their behalf?



Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 11:43 am

Fairlands Resident:

I, for one, am angry and upset about our economy and people losing their jobs. However, as I said in an earlier post, I have a freind who works for Kaiser. My Kaiser rates are going up next year, and I am none too happy about that, but I am not going to ask him to take a pay cut to subsidize my health care. I have no idea why people here in Pleasanton are asking me to subsidize your child's education. But we are doing it anyway, in the form of a two-day layoff/pay decrease next year (two non-teaching days, so it will not affect the students). In speaking to teachers in other neighboring communities, all which have already passed a parcel tax, none of those communities have asked for a cut from the teachers.


Posted by You don't know the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 11:49 am

Hey "Get the Facts"

You really need to take a step back and look at your posts. No one owes you a dime. Get a second job if you need more money. And, I know you are "riding it out" until the end of the year, but maybe you should spend a little more time earning what we have paid you instead of spending all your time posting inaccuracies here. I'm worried you are taking this work ethic into the classroom.


Why don't you take a break from posting here and spend time double check your facts in your lesson plans this weekend.

Thanks,


A few of your bosses


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 25, 2009 at 12:25 pm

So using Get the Facts' logic, anyone in Pleasanton who doesn't have a school aged child shouldn't have to subsidize education.
People who work in the private sector don't get asked to take a pay cut - they get told. People in the private sector don't get to demonstrate on the job when there are layoffs. When they get laid off, they're ushered off the premises that day. People in the private sector don't have tenure. People in the private sector don't get medical benefits after they retire which teachers do until they are eligible for government medical programs.
Again, thanks GTF for being honest about the fact that as a teacher, you're not in favor of the parcel tax because you think it will benefit the children of the community - it's the benefits to you that are foremost in your position.


Posted by Pleasanton Parent, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Apr 25, 2009 at 8:27 pm

Get the Facts - time and time again I've asked you to provide justification for PUSD employees taking pay increases while the district asks the community for additional tax dollars. I am interested in your response; why do you believe it is ethically, socially, and fiscally sound to accept pay increases when the community is being asked for additional funds because of a decrease in state funding?


Posted by parent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 8:32 pm

Pleasanton Parent: I will answer that one and I am not a teacher. YES.


Posted by Fairland, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 25, 2009 at 8:39 pm

GTF fails to mention that San Ramon and Livermore, the neighboring communities that passed parcel taxes are now ONCE AGAIN asking for MORE MONEY from their communities.

There's a lesson here to be learned. Once a parcel tax is passed on to the community, it will not go away! It's not for four years, it's FOREVER.


Posted by Get out of the wagon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2009 at 8:47 pm

Get the facts,

The difference in your argument about your friend who works for Kaiser and your rates that are going up is that you can drop your health care coverage if the rates go too high for your budge. It is your choice to not participate. When my husband lost his job in a previous recession, we couldn't afford Cobra, so we bought a catastrophic policy, kept our car insurance up to date, and worked out $30 office visits with our MD's who were fine with that, since that is what they get in total from insurance companies within their contracts. They also gave us samples for medication if we needed it. I know several home-school families who do the same thing with 5 children ages 3-16. It works.

We on the other hand will have no choice but to pay if this ridiculous Measure passes with 15MM of the 18.5MM going to salary increases over the next four years.

You have choices other than to whine to the parents of this community. You can get a second job like my friend who is a teacher in this district, or my mother-in-law who is a PE teacher in her district.

Life is not fair. If this is the first time you are learning that, then I apologize, but you are long overdue for a wake-up. My husband currently works two jobs and he is a Silicon Valley professional. He just comes home from one job, has dinner, and works more to provide for his family. That is how the "richie" parents in this district provide "lavishly" for their kids. The only one putting constraints on your family budget is you. I worked 4 jobs to put myself through college: Retail, tutoring, house cleaning, and nanny. I did all of this so I could have a flexible schedule around my classes. If you have a family, you could easily get home after school, get your kids homework done and dinner and go work 4 hours at Macy's or Targer who are both hiring and you would get a discount! You need to look at yourself and your situation and stop asking others to get you out of it.

I was against the corporate bailouts and I am against Union ones, too. "No!" on Measure G.


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 25, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Check out the following article which refers to the San Ramon parcel tax as deja vu for San Ramon:

Web Link

Of particular interest is the following:
Koehne said ballot language was written to allow flexibility so the district isn't locked into specific services should the tax pass.

Terry Koehne is the San Ramon District spokesman.

PUSD modeled its parcel tax ballot language on San Ramon's.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 25, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Yay! There's absolutely no guarantee that the programs listed for parcel tax funds will be kept. I think people can miss that point easily if they don't read the ballot language carefully.


Posted by Greg, a resident of Castlewood
on Apr 26, 2009 at 1:15 am

Debbie Look stood at the last City Council meeting and lied to the community when she said the parcel tax could only be used for the items listed.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 26, 2009 at 8:49 am

Stacey is a registered user.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's lying. It's an interpretation of the ballot language that ignores the fuzzy language, the shell game, the absolute lack of any real power for the oversight committee to deal with misuses, etc.


Posted by taxpayer, a resident of Downtown
on Apr 26, 2009 at 10:10 am

GTF says, among other things -- "For those concerned about my posting during the day, not that it is any of your business, but I took some days off for a personal matter this week."
Wrong! What you do during the school day absolutely IS my business -- who do you think pays your salary? You have no problem taking personal days (who does the lesson plans then?) but you choose not to use sick days because it is too much work? You work only 185 days per year as it is. Stop whining and consider yourself lucky. And stop wasting your time during the school day, I am paying for that time along with every other resident in this city.
Or maybe you should just continue to post here. Your barely literate rants about how we owe you more money have likely turned many more of us into "no on G" voters.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 26, 2009 at 10:49 am

Taxpayer to Gtf: "You have no problem taking personal days (who does the lesson plans then?) but you choose not to use sick days because it is too much work?"

How did I miss that? Great call out!!


Posted by Fairlands Resident, a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 26, 2009 at 12:33 pm

Kathleen,
I haven't seen the contract between PUSD & APT, but I have seen a current contract (the one that ended June 30, 2008) between San Ramon's teacher' union and the San Ramon School District.

Is it typical for teacher contracts to specify teachers work no more than 7 hours per day?
Is it typical that teachers get one sick day for each month of work, for a total of up to 10 sick days per 10 month school year?
Is it typical that teachers get personal days in addition to the sick days?
Is it typical for school districts to be required to set aside funds for teachers' retirement?

Thanks for any info you can provide.


Posted by Officially Hopped the Fence, a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Apr 26, 2009 at 1:36 pm

A few months ago, my family and I were pro-Measure G. We were ready to help in anyway possible for the sake of our very young children. We have seen the benefits of CSR and have been blessed with EXCELLENT teachers.

It appears we made our decission prematurely. After a great deal of research, attending meetings, asking important, difficult questions and READING the findings for ourselves, we have come to the following conclusions:

1. If measure G passes, there is NO guarantee from PUSD that CSR will remain and the language is so loose on the ballot that we are certain to see the ratio increase beyond 20:1 in the coming years regardless of the funds measure G will provide to PUSD.

2. It apprears that freezing Step and Column for the life of the parcel tax (4 years) DOES NOT require PUSD to pay the increases back, retroactive, once step and column is defrosted. Though, I don't agree that it should be frozen for the entire 4 years, 2 years may be very beneficial.

3. Finally, there is NO GUARANTEE that special programs will NOT BE CUT, even if the parcel tax passes.

This was a painful reality!! I encourage every taxpayer, parent, grandparent and caregiver to study both sides of Measure G. Make an informed, educated decision before casting your ballots.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 26, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Here is the contract for APT. Interestingly, it has not been updated with this year's salary schedule.

Web Link

There are approximately 1,000 districts in CA, so it would take some work to get to typical. Here is one site I found (Ed Data) that might be helpful.

Web Link

Ten days of sick leave could be typical because it is fair to say that CTA reps are often, if not always, involved in negotiations between a local union and the district.

As to personal days, it depends on what you mean. Sick days can be used for personal necessity; most districts limit how many and when they can be used. If you mean vacation days, staff earn those as well.

Retirement funds are probably not rare, but since funding the liability has become mandatory, there are districts looking at ways to end this liability in the future.


Posted by taxpayer, a resident of Downtown
on Apr 26, 2009 at 11:00 pm

Kathleen, are you saying that in ADDITION to EVERY school holiday and ALL summer off teachers get even MORE vacation days per year??? Holy cow, put me on that gravy train. But heaven forbid they should be asked to take a pay cut or even so much as a pay freeze.


Posted by a gravy train?, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 27, 2009 at 9:47 am

If you think teachers are on a gravy train, get in the field and do it yourself. Geez. There is a reason there is a union, contracts and job protection. These teachers have a BIG job to do. I'm glad teachers have a union who looks out for there interests because if they didn't, you people would be on a witch hunt. Teachers make too much, have too much time off, never do enough for little Jimmy or Suies, t, whine, whine, whine. No wonder so many kids are self-entitled and have issues in the real world.


Posted by IRONEY ALERT!!, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 27, 2009 at 11:50 am

IRONEY ALERT!!
To parents when defending teachers entitlements: "No wonder so many kids are self-entitled and have issues in the real world."

I guess those kids grew up to be teachers.


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 27, 2009 at 10:58 pm

To Get out of the wagon:

"The difference in your argument about your friend who works for Kaiser and your rates that are going up is that you can drop your health care coverage if the rates go too high for your budge. It is your choice to not participate."
False. I have no choice, I am required to take health care. Kaiser is my least expensive choice.

"You have choices other than to whine to the parents of this community. You can get a second job like my friend who is a teacher in this district, or my mother-in-law who is a PE teacher in her district."
I have a second job. I have a third job too. I have always had at least one other job while working as a teacher. And I am not whining, just stating my viewpoint, you don't have to agree. Oh, and I am a parent in this community too!

"The only one putting constraints on your family budget is you."
Aren't you sinking to the worst low possible, with personal attacks? I never spoke of my family budget. Let's stick to Measure G, not my personal finances.

"I worked 4 jobs to put myself through college: Retail, tutoring, house cleaning, and nanny."
I too worked many jobs to put myself through college. What on earth does this have to do with G or the pay of PUSD teachers?

To Taxpayer:
"Wrong! What you do during the school day absolutely IS my business -- who do you think pays your salary?"
When I take a day off, for any reason, it is none of your business. If I am working at my site, you may come in and get up in my face and in my business all you want, or as much as my principal allows. But if I am taking a personal day, my reasons are personal.

"You have no problem taking personal days (who does the lesson plans then?)"
I do then lesson plans. For crying out loud, who in the heck do you think does them?

". . . but you choose not to use sick days because it is too much work?"
I am simply stating that taking the time to put together a good lesson plan is a pain in the rear. Myself, and many other teachers, simply don't take much time off because of the work involved. Don't forget, every time we don't take a sick day, that saves the district money, one less sub day paid.

"You work only 185 days per year as it is. Stop whining and consider yourself lucky."
I do consider myself lucky, but that luck came from hard work in school to get the three degrees I have to put myself in this position of teaching in Pleasanton.

"And stop wasting your time during the school day, I am paying for that time along with every other resident in this city."
Too bad you weren't paying attention to the post, that day I posted I took a personal day, so maybe my sub was wasting his/her time, but I wasn't there.

"Your barely literate rants . . ."
If you are such an expert of the English language, then please go back to school and get your degrees and become an English teacher.

Kathleen and taxpayer:
"Kathleen, are you saying that in ADDITION to EVERY school holiday and ALL summer off teachers get even MORE vacation days per year???"
Teachers get 7 personal days and 5 sick days every year, which, if not used, roll over into sick days for the next year. Teachers do NOT get vacation days, unless you want to count the previously mentioned days.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 28, 2009 at 7:29 am

Gtf: Sorry; you are right, no vacation. There are 16 pages on leave in the APT contract (it's a pdf download . . . do a search on APT agreement at www.pleasanton.k12.ca.us). It is a generous plan.


Posted by Get out of the wagon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 28, 2009 at 1:35 pm

To Get the Facts

"The difference in your argument about your friend who works for Kaiser and your rates that are going up is that you can drop your health care coverage if the rates go too high for your budge. It is your choice to not participate."


False. I have no choice, I am required to take health care. Kaiser is my least expensive choice.

FALSE. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE HEALTH CARE, YOU CAN OPT OUT AND GET YOUR BENEFIT MONEY UP FRONT. I USED TO WORK FOR PUSD AND WAS GIVEN THE BENEFIT MONEY SO I UNDERSTAND.

"You have choices other than to whine to the parents of this community. You can get a second job like my friend who is a teacher in this district, or my mother-in-law who is a PE teacher in her district."


I have a second job. I have a third job too. I have always had at least one other job while working as a teacher. And I am not whining, just stating my viewpoint, you don't have to agree. Oh, and I am a parent in this community too!

YOU ARE WHINING BECAUSE YOU ARE ASKING US TO FUND YOUR CONTINUED RAISES WHILE THOSE OF US THAT WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY THE TAXES ARE TAKING PAY CUTS. IF YOU HAVE A SECOND JOB AND A THIRD AS WELL, THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER - THE **POINT**, IS YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO LIVE AND WORK HERE. IF IT ISN'T WORKING FOR YOU, THEN QUIT AND GO FIND ANOTHER COMMUNITY THAT WILL SUPPORT YOUR SELFISHNESS.

"The only one putting constraints on your family budget is you."


Aren't you sinking to the worst low possible, with personal attacks? I never spoke of my family budget. Let's stick to Measure G, not my personal finances.

NO, I AM NOT SINKING TO THE WORST LOW POSSIBLE, AND I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU PERSONALLY. THE "FAMILY BUDGET" COMMENT IS TO BRING THE RHETORICAL TO THE ACTUAL SINCE THAT IS WHY YOU WANT MEASURE G TO PASS. YOU ARE IN FACT THE ONE ATTACKING THIS COMMUNITY PERSONALLY ASKING US TO GIVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY MORE MONEY BY TAKING IT FROM OUR FAMILIES BY A TAX YOU ARE SUPPORTING. WHERE ARE YOUR MORALS? WHERE ARE YOUR VALUES? YOU HAVE TAKEN THIS TO AN ENTIRELY NEW AND SICKENING LOW DO THIS AND I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY BUSINESS TEACHING MY CHILDREN IN THIS DISTRICT.


"I worked 4 jobs to put myself through college: Retail, tutoring, house cleaning, and nanny."


I too worked many jobs to put myself through college. What on earth does this have to do with G or the pay of PUSD teachers?

IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BASIC ILLUSTRATION THEN, AGAIN, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS TEACHING CHILDREN. MY EXAMPLE WAS TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT "ONE" CAN BE CREATIVE WHEN COMING UP WITH A SCHEDULE WHEN THEY NEED MONEY. YOU HAVE MADE THIS PERSONAL BY STATING YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THIS MONEY FROM THIS TAX, INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT THE REST OF US ARE AND BUCKLING DOWN. YOU AND YOUR ACTIONS ARE INSULTING AND WHAT IS BEYOND THE PALE IS YOUR JUSTIFICATIONS.

I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT IF THIS IS HOW YOU PLAN TO TEACH YOUR OWN CHILDREN MORALS. YOU AND THIS UNION AND THIS DISTRICT HAVE BROUGHT IT TO THIS.

I AM SO HAPPY YOU ARE POSTING YOUR REAL THOUGHTS ON THIS SO WE CAN ALL ACTUALLY SEE HOW ABSOLUTELY AND STUNNINGLY SELFISH THE FACULTY IN THE PUSD IS. THANK YOU FOR BEING A STELLAR EXAMPLE OF WHY WE ARE VOTING NO ON G!


Posted by Get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 28, 2009 at 7:27 pm

Could you stop YELLING??? That would be great.


Posted by Get out of the wagon, a resident of Walnut Grove Elementary School
on Apr 28, 2009 at 7:33 pm

I'm so sorry that you are offended by my all capital letters...Geez thin skinned maybe?? I was merely trying to emphasize my writing within the post since you seem to struggle with basic concepts, oh, and there is no font or typeset change available here.

When you feel compentent to answer simple questions and are not so easily offended by my typing, can you offer an intelligent reply.

Thanks so much!


Posted by Obvious, a resident of Castlewood
on Apr 28, 2009 at 7:40 pm

GET THE FACTS...oh sorry about that, I didn't mean to YELL.

Get a grip. Anyone can see that Wagon was trying to emphasize their writing within the post.

If you want to reprimand someone for yelling, wait until the next Board meeting and I can certainly accommodate you.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 28, 2009 at 7:47 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Get the facts,

Maybe the problem isn't that the community seems to want freezes in step and column raises. Maybe the problem is PUSD's poor financial management that lead to the loss of a large reserve fund in order to pay for your step and column during bad economic times. Put the blame in the right place.


Posted by taxpayer, a resident of Downtown
on Apr 28, 2009 at 10:35 pm

GTF
Why are you posting on your own time? Can't you wait until ALL OF THE TAXPAYERS are paying you to be at work? YES, I am yelling.
From your previous reply: "Too bad you weren't paying attention to the post, that day I posted I took a personal day, so maybe my sub was wasting his/her time, but I wasn't there." Oh yes, I was paying attention. This is only about your hundredth post on this topic. Were you on personal days for all of the rest also? No, I thought not.
You are the single best spokesperson for the No on G campaign. Your rants about what we, the taxpayers, owe you are highly convincing to those who might otherwise be undecided.
Had your union or you teachers been willing to simply NOT TAKE RAISES many of us would have felt differently. But no, COLAs and step and column are sacred to you. You offered your own version of extortion -- we pay the tax you get two more days of vacation, albiet unpaid. Taking a pay cut means working on those two days and not getting paid for them.
Get a grip and look at what is happening in the real world. Not the world of protected tenured teachers (which apparently includes you) but the world the rest of reside in. I took a 50% pay cut, a total loss of a pension and increased benefits costs. I also took on a third job in order to avoid debt. I do not get summers and all school vacations off, with pay. I do not have tenure which allows me to perform my job with minimal effort and no consequences. I also do not have your attitude of entitlement. When I look in the mirror I see a person who works hard and deserves what I have made of my life. What do you see?


Posted by Get out of the wagon, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 28, 2009 at 11:07 pm

Taxpayer,

You are a shining example of why I am voting "NO!" on G. Thank you for your post. I cannot stomach giving this district raises at the painful expense of those in this community who are seeing everything they have worked so hard for in their life taken from them.

I applaud your courage to speak the truth about your very real situation. Facts and figures don't seem to be getting through to this teacher or for that matter, the "Yes" on G group. Maybe from your post and specific situation they will see that you and I and the rest of this community are not an ATM when they spend too much and expect more.

Thank you, I sincerely thank you for this post. You and your determination to avoid debt in your own personal life by working three jobs is an outstanding example to the rest of us.

You deserve our respect and you have mine.


Posted by i am with get the facts, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on May 4, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Suck it up and teach yourself if you think it is so great.

and, YES, teachers are REQUIRED to take the healthcare plan if they can't prove that they have coverage elsewhere (through a spouse, etc.)

Step and column is not going away. (Personally, I don't think it should be). Why can't anyone start a discussion on how to balance this budget wtih NO parcel tax and with step and column in place (the union is not going to give this up so I think we can stop wasting our time saying it should be given up).


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