Town Square

Post a New Topic

Can a $2 million parcel tax protect $16 Billion of property value?

Original post made by Nomad, Downtown, on Mar 1, 2011

The Pleasanton Educated Voter Coalition is doing the math behind the parcel tax. Given top-level claims of Measure E supporters that this parcel tax protects property values, the question we ask is, how can 2 million dollars in new taxes protect 16 BILLION in residential property values? Web Link
If each student in Pleasanton receives an additional two hours of teacher attention each year (do the math), will that really protect $16 Billion?
We don't think so. Don't fall for such economic dishonesty.

Comments (35)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Drexl
a resident of Ironwood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 11:10 am

I will do the math. Well, not really :) But, most people coming to pleasanton are looking at student ratios to teachers, the calc in the link assumes that ALL schools will get hit equally; that will not be the case, most of the hit will be on elemantary schools; and I don't know about you, but most parents of their 2nd graders prefer to send them to schools that will have under 25 kids per teacher, not 30 or more. If we head over 30, in elementary schools; I can guarantee that people will not come to pleasanton and just go elsewhere nearby. Heck, my wife and I were just talking about moving because of what we see is a breakdown of school support in this community; and it was our number one reason to live in pleasanton. So yes, this parel tax will definitely retain the value of your home. I vote YES on E; and so should you; and yes, LET IT ALL GO TO S&C. I don't have an issue with that; it is a contract, fulfill it; not fire them[teachers].


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Vote NO on E
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 11:38 am

". I vote YES on E; and so should you; and yes, LET IT ALL GO TO S&C. I don't have an issue with that; "

So you are thinking about moving because class sizes will go up, yet you say you have no problem with step and column.

Assuming E passes, that will finance the step and column the first year and keep CSR from going up, BUT the second year, the E money would not be enough to finance step and column, since the cost increases each year.

By voting yes on E you are just delaying the inevitable by one year.

Now, other parents may value programs other than CSR, yet with E guaranteeing CSR, what that means is that the second year, another program will be cut in order to have enough funds to finance step and column (since the money from E will not be enough)

I am voting NO on E because it is a salary tax, plain and simple. By supporting raises in times of deficit you indirectly support the cancellation of programs.

"it is a contract, fulfill it; not fire them[teachers]."

By keeping step and column, teachers (the newer ones) will be fired. So what do you want? Step and column or the retention of teachers? Thanks to step and column, last year we saw some newer teacher laid off and CSR go up. Help me to understand why you support step and column when it is because of it that CSR went up last year and teachers got laid off?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Vote NO on E
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 11:42 am

"Now, other parents may value programs other than CSR, yet with E guaranteeing CSR, what that means is that the second year, another program will be cut in order to have enough funds to finance step and column (since the money from E will not be enough)"

And CSR is not guaranteed by E if you read the ballot language. They do not guarantee that class size will be at say 20:1 or 25:1 or anything. THey are vague on purpose because they know that step and column will need financing the year after and that the money from E won't be enough, so they reserve the right to cancel whatever they need to to fund step and column, and that means CSR is not safe even if E passes.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by momo4
a resident of Amador Valley High School
on Mar 1, 2011 at 1:55 pm

"I am voting NO on E because it is a salary tax, plain and simple. By supporting raises in times of deficit you indirectly support the cancellation of programs."

Well said!!!

Pro kids!
Pro teacher!
No on E (salary tax)!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anonymous
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:00 pm

Pro kids, pro teacher, YES ON E!

Anti tax, Anti kids (because, heck, *our* kids aren't in school now, so what do I care whether programs are cut, as long as I don't have to pay!), Anti teacher, NO ON E!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anonymous
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm

For those No on E people who don't think declining schools have an impact on property values, take a look at Contra Costa County, in particular Walnut Creek.

Walnut Creek is within the jurisdiction of different school districts. Compare the Acalanes School District, which is very supportive of their schools and have a rather high parcel tax, to the Mt Diablo School District, which as we speak failed to pass a parcel tax and is in the process of closing schools.

Which district do you suppose has higher housing prices?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by woody
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:06 pm

Yeah, we've got to protect our kids against this madness. I give till in hurts under this crippling tax system. I can barely manage to afford the payments on my 1.8 million dollar home. Last night my wife got on my case because I didn't tip the waiter at the french restaurant my normal 5%. What's a guy to do? And now a bunch of do-gooders want me to pony up an additional 35 cents per day to supplement what I already pay? What, so teachers can become wealthy? They need to know their place. In our system, the lower 80% of the population -- the peons -- only get to play with 7% of the entire wealth. That's the game in the U.S. And it's fair. Believe it. That's what princess bean counter and scrambled egg man tell us. Me too! No on E!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anonymous
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:17 pm

Tea Partiers, you are blaming the wrong people. I've got a joke for you all to lighten your mood:

A CEO, a Tea Party member, and a union representative sit at a table. There is a plate with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11, turns to the Tea Party member, and says, 'Look out! That union guy wants your cookie!'


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:25 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Then the union guy grabs the last cookie away from the Tea Partier and says, "This cookie has my name on it. I'm sorry, but I can't help you because my union put that guy in office. You should go make some more cookies for us."


 +   Like this comment
Posted by liberal and proud
a resident of Alisal Elementary School
on Mar 1, 2011 at 2:59 pm

There are people who are always closed the idea of anything connected to "tax." I get it. We pay taxes on many things throughout our day; federal, state and local levels tax our income or property. It sucks, but I know it is a reality of living in our country. I am more offended by people and corporations who sneak their way out of paying their fair share. They use the same roads and infrastructure as we do. Why do we (working class) have to find chump change under the sofa cushions to keep a Librarian in our children's school for 1 year, while some corporation gets a free ride (and then some) using our public services?

I chose to live in CA and this beautiful Pleasnton community, because, I overall, agree with how the state and local community manages its business. I feel pleased with many spending decisions like paving our roads in a timely way and keeping our public spaces looking beautiful.
I love that I am sending my daughter to an excellent school that has teachers with many years of experience under their belts. I value that because it says that the district is taking care of these critically important members of our community - our children's teachers. (take a look at some substandard school and you will see poor teacher retention is a HUGE problem)

Measure E is a wise investment in preserving some of the critically important services at our schools. It does not go to salaries. Please get off the obsession of Step and Ladder.

I for one, think that Step and Ladder is important. It is a separate issue from measure E.

CA is not a top spender in terms of schools as a whole of its budget. I wish we spent more! If one looks at states like Texas...they spend a low percentage on school but an obscenely higher percentage toward their prison systems! Uggh, what a total waste of those poor Texans money! ('cept for the happy prison industry that is thriving nicely).

Schools are a positive investment. Period!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Morlock shut-in
a resident of Avignon
on Mar 1, 2011 at 4:13 pm

And then the hardwired-to-the-internet lady says, "everyone should listen to me, because I have valuable, real-life experience earned by never leaving my computer!"

Good joke.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Arnold
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 4:16 pm

"CA is not a top spender in terms of schools as a whole of its budget. I wish we spent more! If one looks at states like Texas...they spend a low percentage on school but an obscenely higher percentage toward their prison systems! Uggh, what a total waste of those poor Texans money! ('cept for the happy prison industry that is thriving nicely)."

- California's prison system is the most costly of probably any state in the union. Unfortunately Jerry Brown doesn't seem interested in addressing this serious issue. Web Link

"Measure E is a wise investment in preserving some of the critically important services at our schools. It does not go to salaries. Please get off the obsession of Step and Ladder."

- I hope you educate yourself on this issue. There is nothing in measure E that prevents money from going anywhere other than where the school board and union want it to go. I find your comments concerning in that they neglect the ballooning liability (payment) this is coming due. The PUSD budget CANNOT even support the current cost structure. What do you think will happen when step & column increases collide with the yet to be recognized balloon payments of a gross amount of unfunded pension & healthcare liability?

If you want to see today's level of service from your educators five years from now, I implore you to understand the school systems finances and the crash course they are on. Don't expect the teachers union to tell you truth - they won't.

The issues facing the PUSD aren't just beyond the horizon. They are visible today.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by woody
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 4:38 pm

Arnold is sooooooo right on! See, it's a conspiracy. It doesn't state this, but trust me, I know: Measure E is all about the corrupt school board and teachers' union wanting to further feather the beds of all our fat cat teachers by tricking us into giving 35 cents a day. I know we're one of the wealthiest mid-sized cities in the nation, but 35 cents is what I give the guys as tip down at the carwash each week! People of Pleasanton Wake UP!!! Vote No on Measure E. Save your money! Save your children from the step and column fat cats! They're sitting in their Nissan Sentras right now laughing at us! Vote NO!!!!!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Arnold
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 5:18 pm


That was cute Woody. Maybe if the PUSD were to be honest with the people that pay their compensation, the people that they supposedly work for, we could all work on a solution to fix this pending PUSD budget Tsunami. As far as I can tell the teachers union is more than willing to push these unfunded liabilities under the mattress in an effort to hide the true cost of employee compensation, which is much greater than has ever been stated on these blogs.

This is kind of like the old commercial that stated, "You can pay me now or pay me later." The twist is that the "you can pay me later" approach of the PUSD is going to cost our children's education dearly. Putting off today's issues will only cost double tomorrow. If this parcel tax passes, I give it two years before the PTA and PUSD are coming back for even more. There is no way around it without addressing the current issues. The Balloon payments are coming!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by woody
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 7:45 pm

Everyone take heed, the balloons are coming! The balloons are coming! Save your 35 cent contributions to our children's learning! Shore up instead for the coming tsunami of balloons! They're hiding under your mattress! Don't believe reports that indicate the economy will have improved considerably over the next two years. Two years from now, with this Kenyan dictatorship we're being forced to live under, the economy will be in even worse shape than it is today. And if it's improved? Well, okay, we lied, what can I say? But today is the day to protect ourselves against the balloons. One if by land, and two if by sea, and I look under every mattress to see, the balloons are coming! Spread the word, the balloons are coming! Be sure to vote NO on Measure E!!!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by just a resient
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 9:41 pm

4 votes in this house.........ALL NO!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:11 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

As usual, woody offers little of relevance to the discussion. Woody can only resort to ridicule, which is really a shame because it paints the pro-Measure E side in a bad color. I know there's pro-Measure E people out there who don't hold the same opinions as woody and are much more capable.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Jerry
a resident of Apperson Ridge
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:23 pm

I'm really sick of the "pay our raises or we hurt the children model" that seems to come around every year. This has got to stop! Do we need to recall the entire school board to get people to start thinking straight? It's time to renegotiate a reasonable and sustainable contract with the union.

We need to wake up and stop taking this kind of crap (for lack of a better word) from these unions.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by concerned parent
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:33 pm

"The PUSD budget CANNOT even support the current cost structure. What do you think will happen when step & column increases collide with the yet to be recognized balloon payments of a gross amount of unfunded pension & healthcare liability?"

You are conflating issues here that are really distinct.

" If this parcel tax passes, I give it two years before the PTA and PUSD are coming back for even more."

If the parcel tax doesn't pass, there will just be more cuts to programs. The problem of early retirements for teachers adding to pension liabilities will not be addressed either way. That can only be addressed at the state level. PUSD can do nothing to change that. The only change that will happen as a result of not supporting a parcel tax is that programs will be cut. That is the bottom line.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by concerned parent
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:34 pm

" that seems to come around every year"

In the last twelve years, I can only recall being asked to vote for a parcel tax twice.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by resident 2
a resident of Old Towne
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:40 pm

@ resient,
still four in your household, eh? i thought you would have kicked those two deadbeat kids out long ago. glad to hear they're voting NO with you -- shows excellent parenting skills.

@Jerry,
i'm sick of it too. why should teachers get raises? i'm a straight thinker like you are. vote NO!

@Stacey,
i wish you wouldn't give pep talks to the other side. they've got their woody, and we have you, again and again and again and again and again. keep up the good work -- no i didn't mean actually 'work'. didn't mean to hit a sore spot there. take courage kid. us NO voters shall overcome the massive burden of 35 cents a day.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:53 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Woody,

Still nothing relevant to say on the subject of parcel taxes and property values? It isn't parcel taxes, but high test scores that boost property values, when all variables are equalized. A homeowner has an interest therefore in ensuring high test scores, which is unfortunate because test scores alone do not make for an adequate education. Not that you could debate me on the matter...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Honest Injun
a resident of Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks
on Mar 1, 2011 at 11:05 pm

Stacey is absolutely right. We've got 26 voters in our household, and they were all going to vote Yes. Honest. But now, in the face of woody's satire, we've all decided to change our votes to NO. Honest. There should be no place for satire in a community such as ours. A vote against Measure E is a vote against satire! Anti-satire bean counters unite!

Keep equalizing those variables, Stacey. Keep all those beans lined up nice and straight. We're with ya!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Honest Injun
a resident of Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks
on Mar 1, 2011 at 11:30 pm

By the way, all of the other neighbors on my block are going to vote NO also. Honest. And I'm talking at least hundreds! Do you know why? Because they were influenced by the PECV document that shows how dishonest it is to equate property values with quality of schools. Everyone in their right mind knows that there is no correlation. Honest. The folks who have posted on this site who claim they came to Pleasanton because of excellent schools are simply being dishonest? They are being brainwashed to say those things by the Union which has an agenda. They want your 35 cents. In fact, if you really honestly think about it, there probably is a STRONGER correlation between high property values and bad schools. See, those who own the highly valued property want bad schools in order to keep the riff-raff away. Or something. It made sense to me a minute ago.

Now there is one neighbor I have who is an exception. He's in support of Measure E. He claims that the PECV document is one of the silliest, most simple-minded documents he's ever seen. Now, I myself have tried reading it six or eight times -- my mind wanders -- and I myself don't find anything simple-minded about it at all. But he says all posters on this site should read it. Truly, read it. That you'll learn oodles about the intelligence level of its author and supporters. Indeed, read it a second time. If there is any one piece of literature that you should read before making up your mind on Measure E, read the PECV piece at the top of this thread. You'll find out who PECV really is and the kinds of distortion that run through their itsy-bitsy brains. It's this kind of thinking that is at the basis of the NO group. It's not pretty.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by SteveP
a resident of Parkside
on Mar 2, 2011 at 8:56 am

SteveP is a registered user.

woody/honest injun-your posts reminded me to ask a question about school spending: Has there been any discussion about bolstering the special needs programs in Pleasanton schools are a result of passing measure E? Based on the dillusional ramblings posted above, at a minimum, there's some remedial attention required.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Steve
a resident of Vineyard Hills
on Mar 2, 2011 at 7:43 pm

No on E....it will completely fail. Looks like the union hacks are out in force on this forum with phony posts, lame sarcasm, and the same old union mantra. This is what they do.....they post lies, they twist the truth. I have kids in the district and I see the enormous waste everyday....why would we throw good money after bad? More money will do nothing in regards to the quality of the education in the district. Associating concerned taxpayers with the Tea Party is another ridiculous tactic that is lazy and lacking in imagination.

Drexl.....feel free to move. This place will always be desirable....save the dramatic statements.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Morlock shut-in
a resident of Avignon
on Mar 2, 2011 at 7:51 pm

Looks like the Tea Party hacks are out in force on this forum with phony posts, lame sarcasm, and the same old anti-worker mantra. This is what they do...they post lies, twist the truth. I have kids in the district too and I see the decline in parenting that some posters on this thread are taking public on this forum. Calling opponents lazy is lacking in imagination.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Mary
a resident of Mohr Elementary School
on Mar 2, 2011 at 10:45 pm

I posted this on the other blog but I wanted to make sure you saw it here to.

I'm new to these blogs so please take it easy. My two children are going to Mohr elementary school. I love them so much and I want what's best for them, as I'm sure most parents would. I thought that voting for Measure E would help. Some of you are saying that I should vote against Measure E. I can't understand, but are you saying the best way to make sure they get the best education possible is to vote against Measure E? Please explain how that will help.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Steve is Right!!!
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 2, 2011 at 11:18 pm

Mary,

I've already posted another comment on the other thread in response to your query. I repeat: Just read Steve.

But since you're on this thread, you might try reading the weblink at the top of this page, promoted by PEVC, the NO Coalition, and other Tea Party Patriots. The weblink is a real hoot, let me tell ya. {portion removed]

Read it very very carefully. Some say it is utter nonsense. It, combined with Steve's everpresent remarks, should be all you need to make a rational and informed judgment. Cheers.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Al
a resident of Foothill High School
on Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 am

No on E, it's just throwing more wood on the Fire! In my opinion the PUSD needs to publish a REAL balanced budget, and a 'parcel tax' funded balanced budget and let us vote on them. The idea that they even consider approving another budget ending in deficit, with or without parcel tax funding, is idiotic! They must grows some BALLS over at the PUSD offices, or we should vote them out!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Steve is Right!!!
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 3, 2011 at 8:29 am

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


 +   Like this comment
Posted by woody
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 4, 2011 at 1:27 am

Land O'Goshens! After Stacey's missive and the avalanche of support it rec'd, I'm hesitant to proceed for fear someone will make fun of my proposal. There is surely a conspiracy afoot!

Citizens of Pleasanton. We are in a financial crisis, brought on in large part by tax cuts for the rich and a tax rate that is well below what it was during Eisenhower's days in office. It is time for us all to make sacrifices, especially the wealthy. Since public workers and other hard-working people are being asked to return some of their hard-earned money to the 7% of the wealth for the bottom 80% of the population, it is only reasonable that rich people also make a sacrifice. Thus, I hereby propose that an 8% tax be levied upon their income for purposes of bettering our community and its institutions. Call my proposal the 8% Tax on the Wealthy. Call my group the Pleasanton Earnest Coalition of Voters (PECV). I'm all but certain the teapartiers and other supporters of NO on E, in the interests of fairness, will say YEA to the PECV-endorsed 8% additional tax on Pleasanton's wealthiest. Fair is fair, and we all must be expected to sacrifice. Think of our Founding Fathers, especially Uncle Sam who was almost solely responsible for financing our revolution. Today, the balloons are coming in the form of additional teacher salaries. We always hear the NO on E folks assure us that they love P-Town's teachers. Here's their chance to show it. I realize they've sacrificed so much already. I've forgotten what that is right now, but I'm sure I'm right. Support an added 8% income tax on the wealthy. We're all in this together.






 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 4, 2011 at 8:57 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Woody,

You know I'm all about progressive taxation since you're familiar with my reasons for opposing a flat-rate parcel tax and my proposal for a per sq. ft. parcel tax (right?). I've not heard of very many municipal income taxes though and I've never heard of a local income tax levied by a school district. It is probably even illegal for a school district to do under California law. Do you have any realistic local solutions or are you just trying to set up false choices?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by woody
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 4, 2011 at 10:25 am

Thank you for supporting our cause! The PECV recognizes that the economy is improving, jobs are coming back, people are spending more. Nevertheless, the balloons are coming. And it's time the wealthy donate their fair share. We need to institute a parcel tax that has a fungibilistic relation with personal income, house sq. ft. (HSQFT), assessments, and assets. The PECV is seriously engaged in hiring a bean counter whose task it will be to park on this site and give people all of the specifics.

It truly grieves the PECV, but the 8% tax on the wealthy will make up for the unsustainable tax cut liabilities that have burdened the community. We love our wealthy. They contribute much to the community. But the time is now! Thank you again for your support!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Nomad
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 4, 2011 at 1:32 pm

A number of pro-E posters are claiming that E will protect home values. Wanted to re-post this to put the $2M parcel tax into perspective with the $16 billion in residential property values.
This parcel tax will have NO effect on residential property values.


Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.

Email:


Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: *

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

November Ballot Prop 2 Devils or Angels in the Details?
By Tom Cushing | 2 comments | 836 views

Why we need the Water Bond
By Roz Rogoff | 13 comments | 823 views