Town Square

Post a New Topic

The Damaging Impact of California’s Teacher Layoff Policies

Original post made by concerned parent on Feb 23, 2011

Great recent report at: Web Link called:
Victims of the Churn: The Damaging Impact of California's Teacher Layoff Policies on Schools, Students, and Communities in Three Large School Districts.

"California's students, particularly its poorest students, need great teachers. Unfortunately, California's seniority based teacher layoff system puts adult privileges over student needs. Newer teachers are laid off first, regardless of how well they do their jobs."

Comments (21)

Posted by parent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 23, 2011 at 9:08 pm

Good link - this concerns me a lot. Here's another good quote from that article:

"Second, under California state law, teachers who
have the fewest years of service or least seniority
in a school system are generally the first to be laid
off —regardless of how successful they are in the
classroom. This can have two main effects. It can
mean that effective teachers are laid off while ineffective
teachers keep their jobs. And it can mean
that districts have to lay off more teachers to make
up for budget cuts, as less experienced teachers are
paid less regardless of how effective they are."


Posted by Unions rule !, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 23, 2011 at 9:46 pm

Gotta love those union rules !
OR CHANGE them and stop the insanity !
Good teachers HAVE to do it THEMSELVES from INSIDE the unions.


Posted by Me Too, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 24, 2011 at 3:02 pm

Why is it that in other professions we value experience and "greenhorns" are looked down uopn? Not many people walk out of college and are hired as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. On all these posts it appears that somehow a teacher who has only been in the classroom 6 months must be a great teacher because they are young?


Posted by parent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 24, 2011 at 3:07 pm

No, it's just unfair they are they only people being laid off, including some that are new to the district, but coming with experience. Instead these jobs could be saved by not raising salaries which in turn would probably mean a successful parcel tax which would mean all the jobs are saved.


Posted by Steve, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Feb 24, 2011 at 5:51 pm

Me too,

You answered your own question. Younger teachers are considered better because they are motivated....they have yet to be completely infected by the union mentality. You cannot fight human nature...if private employees had no risk of losing their jobs or being reprimanded for shotty work, you would have a rash of entitled, ineffective work forces. Layoffs based on seniority are the reason why younger teachers are better.....most older teachers have nothing to fear and their productivity slips becuase of it. There is no doubt that our schools would be of higher quality if layoffs were based on performance.


Posted by Unions rule !, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 24, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Of course Me Too always defends the Union position. Nobody said all new teachers are great, any more than all senior teachers are bad..please MeToo, TRY to stick to honesty, facts, and comments that have ACTUALLY been made. Who's ever said '6 mo', and 'ALL' posts....try to not SPIN and only repeat basic facts and truths.
There is NO good defense for attempting to defend BAD teachers, new or old ! Parents need a way to dump any bad teacher....and not AFTER THE DAMAGE has gone on and on, . upping the bad teachers future retirement does nothing for the suffering students.


Posted by soce 3/16, a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Feb 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm

facebook: "Soce March Sixteenth"
SOCE - Save Our Childrens' Education - March 16th

Pink-slipped educators are not going to work on March 16th, the day after the state mandated pink slip day. This act shows both support of student learning and brings awareness to and denouncement of school districts purposefully annual manipulative act to make illegally or nearly illegally cuts and changes.


Posted by two way street, a resident of Ruby Hill
on Feb 24, 2011 at 11:26 pm

Should Teachers be able to "DUMP" bad parents?? seems only fair. There are loads of "bad" parents out there, yet the spotlight is always on the "bad" teachers, and the rights parents should be entitled in controlling the teachers, their profession, careers etc.... very strange dynamic.


Posted by parent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 24, 2011 at 11:29 pm

I only see my kids teachers when I am helping out in the classroom. We don't have parent teacher conferences anymore because of budget cuts. Where do bad parents come in?


Posted by Steve, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Feb 25, 2011 at 4:19 am

Blah...blah....blah. Not going to work to support educators...Paaleease. The jig is up and you are too myopic to realize it. We don't have anymore money...we are taxed to the hilt already. There is nothing illegal about a layoffs you fool. Stick to the topic....seniority based layoffs are wrong and there is no defending them. Parents have nothing to do with teachers who call in sick 30 times a year when they only work 130 days as is. No one can come up with logic to defend the stupidity of the current LIFO process...it breeds a population of unmotivated and untouchable teachers.


Posted by Unions rule !, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 25, 2011 at 10:28 am

The entire PURPOSE of unions is to PROTECT the weak and incompetent employees. The really good teachers (or employee) don't need a union...they are always in demand. Not just education, but all areas, are about shorter days, less work, fewer days, more pay, more benefits....it is never about the needs of children or employers.
example this week, cut reading program to give Birthdays off for
teachers and CLERK TYPIST types... doesn't matter, if they 'agreed' to stop BDs off, they would just plug it in elsewhere under a different name.
Yes, they are still clerk-typists, but today they're called something like a fancy human communications specialist....so they are NOW 'entitled', which translates to higher pay, and less for the children.......never forget, unions rule !


Posted by thisiscrazy, a resident of Sycamore Place
on Feb 28, 2011 at 4:55 pm

I cannot understand how ANYONE can defend the current union proposals!

Furloughs, and laying off younger teachers are both inefficient, short term bandaids that create a bigger problem for us in the future. We are destroying our public school system one year at a time!

Stop guaranteed raises, remove "senority" as a proxy for capability and review capital and opex budget expenses.


Posted by woody, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Feb 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm

thisiscrazy,
... and you forgot to add, instead of seniority -- you know, those who get burned out teaching after a couple years (go figure!) -- let me and steve and princess bean counter determine who should get a raise (hint: nobody will!). C'mon everybody, it's my money I earned it. Don't tread on me. Taxes are unconstitutional. If everyone had home schooling like so many did back in the times of our founding fathers, we wouldn't have to worry about being railroaded by the union into paying salaries to teachers. I'm available to teach or counsel any time, day or night. I'm ready to teach by example. Follow my lead!


Posted by soce march 16th, a resident of Carlton Oaks
on Mar 1, 2011 at 6:50 pm

SOCE - Save Our Childrens' Education - March 16th
facebook: SOCE MARCH SIXTEENTH Web Link

Pink-slipped educators are not going to work on March 16th, the day after the state mandated pink slip day. This act shows both support of student learning and brings awareness to and denouncement of school districts purposeful annual manipulative act to make illegally or nearly illegal cuts and changes.


Posted by Unbelievable, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 8:11 pm

"SOCE - Save Our Childrens' Education - March 16th
facebook: SOCE MARCH SIXTEENTH Web Link

Pink-slipped educators are not going to work on March 16th, the day after the state mandated pink slip day. This act shows both support of student learning and brings awareness to and denouncement of school districts purposeful annual manipulative act to make illegally or nearly illegal cuts and changes."

This link is so ridiculous it isn't even funny. To blame the district for things that are mandated by the teachers union own contract is disingenuous. The teacher's contract dictates when pink-slips are to be issued. The district issues 10 times the required amount of pink slips because it makes news, they are on the same team, and the media likes to cover these stories. The truth is that, even during budget cuts, 98% to 100% of those pink-slipped teachers will be working when the school year starts.

The CTA loves to use these artificial "pink-slip" numbers as evidence of sacrifice. As the Mayor of Livermore recently stated, "The teachers union just lies."


Posted by Start Afresh, a resident of Country Fair
on Mar 1, 2011 at 8:45 pm

To 'Unbelievable' - Where/when did the mayor of Livermore say that? Do you have it on tape?


Posted by Honest Injun, a resident of Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks
on Mar 1, 2011 at 9:01 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with 'unbelievable'. This link -- SOCE -- is so ridiculous that only idiots like ourselves would take it at face value. Then again, consider the source. What is the source you ask? WIKI, which all you enquiring minds should know is the top journal/magazine in educational affairs in the land of insaniteapartyville. 'Unbelievable'? Yes, well, you certainly got that right.

Punish the CTA! Withhold your 35 cents! Vote Me for any political position out there, because truth be told -- and I AM Honest Injun -- I'm only in this in hopes of scoring some kind of political gig.


Posted by Unbelievable, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:14 pm

To 'Unbelievable' - Where/when did the mayor of Livermore say that? Do you have it on tape?

The comments were stated during a special mayors report on TV 30. The attendees were Mayor Kamena (Livermore), Mayor Sbranti(Dublin), Mayor Wilson (San Ramon), and Vice Mayor Jerry Thorne (Pleasanton).

What Kamena said is, "I'm so happy the electorate could look beyond those nasty, nasty adds of of CTA, that's the California teachers Union, and the nurses, and those dopey firefighters....They're absolute lies." He repeats the criticism later in the interview. Dublin Mayor, Tim Sbranti, a teacher in Dublin, is critical of Prop 13 during the interview (at about 4 minutes). This seems to be a union theme/issue. It is essentially a barrier to union employees tapping into the homeowner equity of taxpayers.

You can view the video here. The quoted Kamena comments start just after the 2 minute mark on the timer. He makes additional comments later in the video.

Here is the link: Web Link


Posted by Unbelievable, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:19 pm

The link I provided links to two Mayors Report videos. Scroll down to the second video to see/hear the quotes I've referenced.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:19 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

"California's students, particularly its poorest students, need great teachers. Unfortunately, California's seniority based teacher layoff system puts adult privileges over student needs."

There was a whole lawsuit over this issue down in LA Unified, which shows that it is an important topic in today's education circles. Woody on the other hand can't offer a single rational thought on the matter. Now this just illustrates the hollowness of woody's push for class warfare. He puts ridicule against other posters above the needs of students at the poorest schools in California.


Posted by Honest Injun, a resident of Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks
on Mar 1, 2011 at 10:25 pm

I liked best the part about those 'dopey firefighters'. Class act.

By the way, I'm organizing a counter SOCE group. I'm calling it the Counter SOCE Group (CSOCEG). We need to tell all those pink slipped teachers that they need to man up.


If you were a member and logged in you could track comments from this story.

Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: *

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

Preserving Disorder
By Tom Cushing | 68 comments | 1,936 views

Bi-Polar Disorder
By Roz Rogoff | 25 comments | 1,659 views

The drought drives lawmakers to action
By Tim Hunt | 12 comments | 1,370 views