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Obama “HOPES” the public will not learn the details of his Nationalized Health Plan…

Original post made by Ruth on Jul 26, 2009

Web Link

If you read the fine print in the Congressional plans, you'll find that a lot of cherished aspects of the current system would disappear.

In short, the Obama platform would mandate extremely full, expensive, and highly subsidized coverage -- including a lot of benefits people would never pay for with their own money -- but deliver it through a highly restrictive, HMO-style plan that will determine what care and tests you can and can't have. It's a revolution, all right, but in the wrong direction.

Let's explore the five freedoms that Americans would lose under Obamacare:

1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
5. Freedom to choose your doctors

It is also a rationing of services that would severely limit appropriate care for seniors. It is a WAR on seniors and would shift care for seniors to care for illegal aliens.

When Jerry McNerney returns home from Congress's August, ask him about these items above, not to mention that the Congressional Budget Office concludes that this Plan will result in much higher costs than the present system.

Web Link

Comments (28)

Posted by Al Sharpton, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 26, 2009 at 11:24 am

Well another reason and I have read most of the bill not all as it is a legal mess it is also about reparations whether he wants to admit it or not. One of the focal points of the matrix is that everything has to go through a department of minority health, minorities graduating from school get preferred treatment etc. read the bill as it is not about better care but taking care of entitlement groups. Heck, even Acorn receives money from the bill. This guy is an america hater and he is going to try and finish us off if he has not done so already.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Jul 26, 2009 at 11:25 am

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh....everybody....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...that's ruthie's tip for the day!

cool...


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jul 26, 2009 at 12:52 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

"It is also a rationing of services that would severely limit appropriate care for seniors. It is a WAR on seniors and would shift care for seniors to care for illegal aliens."

This sounds like a really ignorant comment. Seniors are already enrolled in a government-run health care program.

"3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage"

I had to laugh at that one. The freedom to choose how much of other people's money you're going to spend for your health care. Why do the naysayers tend to make health care reform into a discussion about insurance options when the bigger picture is actual health care and the high costs associated with it? It doesn't matter if you have private health insurance or your freedom to choose different plans. The private health insurance industry is suffering from skyrocketing costs too.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jul 26, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

"2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs"

Even healthy people have life-threatening accidents that insurance doesn't fully cover!


Posted by Ruth, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 26, 2009 at 3:46 pm

Stacey, it sounds as if your mind is already made up. However, in the event that you'd consider hearing more info about the proposed Obamacare Plan, especially what it means for Seniors, I am offering you the following audioclip.

It is an interview with Betsy McCaughey, PhD, patient advocate and former Lieutenant Governor of NY, now Adjunct Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Wash. DC. (Yes, I can already anticipate your response...that the interviewer is conservative Mark Levin. Just focus on McCaughey's comments if you have a problem with Levin.)

In the audioclip, Dr. McCaughey begins talking about the impact on seniors from around 4:15 minutes into the clip...in case you prefer not to listen to the entire interview (total of 8 min.)

Web Link





Posted by Love Palin, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 26, 2009 at 4:28 pm

She's saying that there will be a 10% cut in Medicare benefits as part of the proposal to pay for the new plans. I think the 10% cut would be a good thing. As it is now, medicare and social security alone are enough to wreck the budget even if we eliminate all other spending (defense, food stamps, highways ... everything). Fixing Medicare will necessarily be part of any plan to fix run away medical costs.

The trouble with the house and senate plans is that they are too expensive (CBO says they will cost more not less), and that they will benefit a small number of people, while worsening care for others. It is time to go slowly on this. There are way to many details that people need to know about before these bills become law.


Posted by People, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 26, 2009 at 5:35 pm

People, GET a GRIP here! Nothing is done or set in stone. There are hundreds of experts in the field working on this measure!

Our helth care system is broken and needs to be fixes, one way or another!


Posted by Linda, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 26, 2009 at 5:44 pm

All we need is tort reform and loser pays in a lawsuit and then I believe you will see that it is affordable for all. Why are we giving free healthcare to illegal aliens anyway? I hope it passes as it will be the end of the democrats in the next election.....................good journeys


Posted by Jon, a resident of Danbury Park
on Jul 26, 2009 at 6:02 pm

We are NOT giving FREE healthcare to illegals. Can they go to an ER room and get treatment like anyone else? Yes! Do illegal aliens get Medical, Medicare or Healthy Families Coverage? NO! Do CHILDREN born to Illegal aliens get these services and Health Plans? YES!

Why YOU ask, Mrs. Conservative? ALL the conservatives FREAK out over the CHILDREN of illegal aliens receiving FREE healthcare on the taxpayer's dime!

They get this FREE Heath Care because of the CONSTITUTION you all hold so DEAR and refer to so much! If they are BORN in the USA, they are U.S. Citizens!

Thank you FOUNDING FATHERS!

The Illeagal aliens CHILRED LOVE you!


Posted by Ruth, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 26, 2009 at 6:14 pm

Linda...You are absolutely right that Tort Reform would dramatically reduce unnecessary medical costs, yet the Democrats have blocked Tort Reform at every opportunity!

Regarding your comment that "I hope (national healthcare) passes because it will be the end of the democrats in the next election" I have to respectfully disagree. If this passes, it would be generations before this disaster could be undone, if ever.

Regarding the negative impacts on seniors, here is more from Betsy McCaughey, PhD, talking with former Presidential Candidate, Fred Thompson. (Disregard the visual slides if necessary, and just listen to the audio.)

The additional info in this audio talks about the mandatory counseling seniors must have every 5 years (or earlier if they -- or you -- develop a disease like cancer) about ending their lives. This is not the America I know...this is horrific.

Web Link

This IS A WAR on SENIORS!



Web Link


Posted by Jon, a resident of Danbury Park
on Jul 26, 2009 at 6:33 pm

Ruth,

I have read the bills as they are being presented. The Democrats AND Republicans are putting this together and BOTH will be voting on the final Bill!

WE elected these representatives! Obama has little do do with it, other than pushing congress to figure something out about our FAILED heath care system.

YOU, like the typical Right Wing Radical Conservative posted links to more Radical Right Wing Propaganda!

What is stated on the U-Tube link is a SPIN on what the bill actually says. It is a PERSONAL opinion of what will happen if and when seniors have this mandatory counseling, that they actually should have and deserve.

Many senior have no one to help them with medical issues!

If you, or anyone else think a bill that forces seniors to "die early" would be enacted, you are nuts!

As ir stands, seniors are so heavily over medicated with conta drugs, they are being killed anyways!


Posted by Ted, a resident of Highland Oaks
on Jul 26, 2009 at 6:35 pm

Jon,

I believe you need to get yourself on some medication as well as you do not seem to well contained and seem dangerous.


Posted by Darlene, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 26, 2009 at 7:06 pm

READ IT AND WEAP!


Some of the items in the Health Care Plan now in the works: (Yes, someone IS reading the immense amount of pages!!! But it isn't your representatives in Washington D.C. !)

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! You can only get so much "care" per year

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits 4 you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 your banks accts for elective funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services..... Example - Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll between 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng to Govt will be taxed 2.5%

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (You and I will pay for them)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal recds

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will be very affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgments, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing all into Govt HC plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life. Seniors will be interviewed every year for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can't receive

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those services


This is all in there, check it out yourself! And be afraid. You must contact your representatives and STOP this insane Health Care Plan before they pass it some night at midnight.


Posted by Dan, a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jul 26, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Darlene,

You already copied and pasted this from the internet and posted it in another topic!

Meds, take your meds!


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jul 26, 2009 at 8:16 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Ruth,

It sounds like your mind is also made up. Also, you can do best by not anticipating responses from others. When you anticipate, you risk creating "straw man" arguments which weaken your position.


Posted by Shut it, a resident of Danbury Park
on Jul 26, 2009 at 10:32 pm

Stacey, you are entirely full of yourself.


Posted by Stacey, a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jul 26, 2009 at 11:29 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

"Posted by unclehomerr.., a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, 4 hours ago

D'ja ever notice how people who can't defend their positions attack those with opposing views??

I have.

unclehomerr.."

Sorry, unclehomerr, I couldn't resist. Your comment was just so fitting...


Posted by dan, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 12:42 am

Look people! Go to the "other" thread and take a look!

You have LOST all credibility, weather the Bill is a good or bad deal!


Posted by Ken in South Pleasanton, a resident of Downtown
on Jul 27, 2009 at 8:25 am

Thanks Darlene for re-posting your list. I missed it in another post and think it is important to provide an index so everyone, conservative or liberal, can read the actual text of the proposal. It seems to me that many people on both sides of the argument are simply repeating talking points they have heard or read, and that they haven't taken the time to read, comprehend, and ponder the broad issues created by the health care proposal. I don't support the proposal in its current condition because I believe it creates another expensive government beaurocracy that is unsustainable. Much like Social Security, it is likely to become the foundation for future costly amendments and additions, none of which were originally intended by the proposal. The congressional budget office has determined that the cost savings are unlikely to materialize and that the proposal is not self-sustaining. I believe our legislators should focus on legal system reform, removal of lobbyists from ghost-authoring legislation, and strict limitations on the pork that is always added to these types of proposals.


Posted by Rosemarie Pease, a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Jul 27, 2009 at 8:59 am

As a senior citizen,I AM APPALLED THAT MY GOVERNMENT WANTS ME TO GET
EUTHANASIA TRAINING EVERY SIX MONTHS. However it wants me to pay for illegals to get MEDICAL FREE. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS NOT AN OPTION, IT DOSE NOT WORK. LOOK AT ENGLAND AND CANADA. OPEN YOUR EYES, THIS IS ANOTHER PLAY FOR OUR MONEY.


Posted by Arroyo, a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Jul 27, 2009 at 9:16 am

Thank you Darlene. Even if this is a "cut and paste", that fact is irrelevant. I am more concerned that the information is factual.

The points in your posting are correct and this government controlled healthcare system will be a disaster. Do I really want a government agency managing my healthcare? NO! Government oversight and some regulation is acceptable and expected -- but not government mandated healthcare. I haven't seen a government agency yet that doesn't frustrate me with their ineptness and bureaucratic overkill.


Posted by LawStudent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 9:50 am

Ruth and ALL others:




You need to go LOOK at the OTHER TOPIC here on the forum, where Mark Levin's point man on the Bill, (Fleckman ) has been EXPOSED and this guy has ZERO ability to read, comprehend and be any type of EXPERT on what is actually written in the Bill.


His personal OPINION, in the line item summary that has been posted on over 1000 web sites is a really poor translation of the literal and or legal meaning and or context within the Bill. He did a really sloppy job, even in his page number and line item references as well. Just WAY off track and borderline Propaganda!




What he states is the meaning of the line item text, is not even close to the actual or legal meaning of the text!




There is no Gov mandated euthanasia or death counseling in which the Gov chooses when and how you die either! None what so ever! You people are taking this WAY too far and making your case REALLY weak and fanatical, to say the very least.




Note:




I consider myself to be a conservative and I am a Republican, but I won't stand for outright Propaganda in the media on this matter.


Posted by LawStudent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 9:56 am

Correction:

This commentary of Fleckmans has been posted verbatim on over 3200 web sites across the nation.

What a disgrace to any senior who reads this and thinks that Fleckman is a scholar, a lawyer or and expert on the subject


"Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)"

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!


Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner re…………

………

………….


Posted by resident, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 10:12 am

Thank you, LawStudent for your rational post. People, please just do your homework and sort through the HC Bill proposal yourself. Don't believe this propaganda!! (from "either side")


Posted by LawStudent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 10:17 am

No problem resident and I appreciate the thanks greatly.

It is my goal to remain sane and level headed as I enter the crazy worl of Law soon here!


Posted by P-Towner, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 2:12 pm

CNSNews.com
Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them
Monday, July 27, 2009
By Nicholas Ballasy, Video Reporter

(CNSNews.com) - During his speech at a National Press Club luncheon, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Democratic Congressman John Conyers (D-Mich.), questioned the point of lawmakers reading the health care bill.

"I love these members, they get up and say, 'Read the bill,'" said Conyers.

"What good is reading the bill if it's a thousand pages and you don't have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?"
Source: Web Link

You hard lefties are amazing students of the Saul Alinsky school of Destroy Your Opponent. Brilliant execution (pun intended!). Marx is smiling downstairs.


Posted by LawStudent, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 2:16 pm

You are a bit frustrating! There are two threads on this subject!

Posted by LawStudent, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, 1 minutes ago

P-Towner




You are only kidding yourself. The authors of the bill, as it being revised almost daily ARE LAWYERS!




Do you think that those on the committee have the legal skills to write?


This stuff?




And, IF those on the panel DID in fact WRITE the bill, then how on earth would they NOT know what's in the Bill?




The White House is not writing the Bill, Congressional LAWYERS are.






These are legal documents written by Lawyers!


Posted by P-Towner, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jul 27, 2009 at 2:23 pm

LawStudent, perhaps you need to re-read my post. Go ahead, slow down and read each word, c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.
LawStudent, what's with the worship-speak about lawyers? You seem breathless – LOL!
There are good lawyers and bad lawyers and a million jokes about lawyers … hmm, I wonder why?

Bad laws are written every day -- get a grip.



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