'Abused by Priests' group urges church to reverse local parish appointmernt Comments on Stories, posted by Editor, Pleasanton Weekly Online, on Nov 19, 2007 at 10:42 am
A priest who allegedly committed an indecent act in front of an Oakland police officer at a park frequented by children shouldn't be appointed parish priest for the Catholic Communities of Pleasanton, a sexual abuse victims group said Friday.
Read the full story here Web Link posted Sunday, November 18, 2007, 8:29 PM
Posted by Safety First, a resident of the Civic Square neighborhood, on Nov 19, 2007 at 11:39 am
Pastor Greene Convicted……. Lewd act in Boys bathroom
Read both sides and decide
Father Greene's Arrest report is too graphic for public print. Words have X for the sake of the young and the weak. As long as adults get to see both sides, that's what matters.
ON 2 MAR 99 AT 1350 HRS I WAS ASSIGNGED TO WORK IN PLAIN CLOTHES
AT THE NORTH OAKLAND SPORTS CENTER (6900 BROADWAY). I ENTERED
THE MENS RESTROOM AND OBSERVED THE SUSPECT (GREENE, PATRICK J.)
STANDING FACING THE URXNAL. MR. GREEN WAS MSTX-ATING WITH HIS
LEFT HAND. MR. GREEN PXXXS WAS ERXXCT AND HE WAS NOT
URXXTING. I ASKED GREEN IF HE HAD COME THERE FOR AN “AFTERNOON
DELIGHT.” HE SAID HE WAS JUST RELAXING. (STILL MSTX-ATING) MR
GREEN ASKED WHAT I WAS THERE FOR AND TURNED TO FACE ME.
HE CONTINUED TO X-BATE. I RESPONDED “WHATEVER COMES UP.” HE
REPLIED “WHAT GOES UP MUST GO DOWN.”
I THEN TOOK MR GREEN INTO CUSTODY.
CHARGES: 1) M314.1 PC CONVICTED AND JAILED
2) M 647 (A) PC LEWD ACT 314 CODE P.C.
We were informed by Pastor Dan their is no record of this! No one was going to tell us.
Fr. Greene had been arrested for lewd conduct at an Oakland kid’s sports park. Greene was caught in the deviate act by an undercover Oakland Police officer at a sXx sting, mxxxxating in public, and the police report states that Greene continued to perform the lewd act, even after the police agent approached him. Greene, according to the police report, kept mxxxxxating while the police officer confronted him, and Greene, engaging in several inflammatory statements with the officer, had stated, "What goes up must come down." The police had planted the undercover officer at the bathroom at the kid’s sports facility, after numerous complaints of sXxual liaisons at the site.
Posted by aaron, a resident of the Highland Oaks neighborhood, on Nov 20, 2007 at 11:12 am
with all the bad poblicity the catholic church has with child abuse. it is definately a bad idea to have him in pleasanton. i am far from a devout christian, but one thing to me which is unexcusible is child abuse. soliciting acts on a minor is terrible. nothing can caompare to such an evil act. a wolf in sheeps clothing is what it looks like to me. (portion removed by PW staff) he should be banned from the clergy, from the state of california. no act of alcohol abuse, drug abuse, theft, can even come close to violation of a child. having a organization that influences choices and actions. with a hiarchy like the church, where people believe and listen to the priest. this is unacceptible. this is a bad man, whether or not he's done it in a while. you don't stick dope in front of a dope head. don't put kids infront of a pedophile. people need to use there common sense. if he shouldn't be in at a school or park, don't let him into the church, especially in pleasanton. (portion removed by PW staff)
Posted by Kari, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 21, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Give him a break. Masturbating has nothing to do with being a pedophile. He has not done any harm to others. He is a great Priest and thats what is important. If you are all devout Christians then head what the good Lord says and forgive and to love. We have all sinned at one point in our lives..should we ban you from seeing your children or ban you from this town? Who are we to say anything of Father Greene's actions? We weren't there. We need to stand up and support him, not shoot him down. I grew up in Pleasanton, I grew up in St. Augustines. We are a close community and we support our community. Stop breaking it up and put this in God's hands. Get over yourselves and stop ruining this man's life. He paid for his mistakes. Find it in your hearts to forgive him. He is the one of the best priests we have had besides Father Dan, I don't want to see him ran out from our parish.
Posted by Eddie, a resident of the Verona neighborhood, on Nov 22, 2007 at 4:46 am
I agree with Kari. Nothing is to be gained from tearing people down. The will of God is that we live life to the full. That makes it important to build everyone up. We are all sinners, and the Lord forgives sinners. The glory of God is people fully alive!!
Posted by Henry, a CCOP Member, a resident of another community, on Nov 22, 2007 at 9:38 am
I also agree the Bishop sould step in and withdraw his nomination.
Fr. Dan mentioned in his article that has been posted in CCOP website that he and the church council members did not have any input in this selection. I respectfully disagree. At least one person from the CCOP council is a member of the Pastoral Council in the Diocese and I am aware of several meetings in the church where the appointment of the next Pastor was discussed.
I find it to hard to read Fr. Dan's posting on the CCOP wesite, which says "Fr. Padraig will address this issue after Jan.01". Why not now? If Fr. Dan, the Diocese and the other Church leaders really want to solve this issue and unite the community together, they should arrange for a town hall meeting of the parish community NOW, not after Jan.01.
Posted by Lewis, member of CCOP, a resident of another community, on Nov 22, 2007 at 9:43 am
The issue which is being discussed here is NOT about any poitical leader, but about a potential spiritual leader. We are not tearing anyone down. We are all expressing what we feel about this important issue and this is the way a democratic process should work and this is the only way we can let the church leaders know that the community is watching their actions.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Vineyard Hills neighborhood, on Nov 22, 2007 at 10:24 am
I do not like posting in this manor… But Kari masturbating in a public urinal has everything to do with male sexual perversion. As an adult if I saw this activity in a public restroom I would leave immediately. Or possibly confront the disturbed man to take his actions somewhere else. Depending on the situation… A child would be confused and possibly ‘damaged’ by this encounter. The Bishop must step in and remove this appointment.
Posted by Dubliner, a resident of Dublin, on Nov 22, 2007 at 10:49 am
We are not trying to tear him down. This is really an issue of actions having consequences. While I have enjoyed his presence at CCOP, this new information makes me question his overall judgement and character. I have much compassion for him, I forgive him and I'm sure he is genuinely a nice man but clearly has suffered some disturbances. This is a RISK issue. The church should not appoint people with questionable backgrounds (even if they don't involve kids) into such positions of authority. That is a very disturbing public behavior. For any man or child to walk in on what he was doing and for him to not stop immediately is highly disturbing. It's brazen. It's thrill-seeking and it's indicative of an ingrained sexual dysfunction. Why should we be the ones who have to be put in the situation to hope he is cured of this behavior??? The bishop and Fr. Dan's decision is very dissappointing! I really like Fr. Greene and find him to be a great speaker and someone who draws people in. But this is risky and he's had problems. We can forgive but not forget and turn a blind eye.
Posted by Bill Bergman, a resident of the Rosepointe neighborhood, on Nov 22, 2007 at 8:03 pm
It's true, of course, that masturbating does not make one a pedophile. However, if masturbation is all that he wanted, Greene could have done that deed at home. Instead, he drove to a public area (portion removed by PW staff).
I am astounded that the powers-that-be still think that Greene can be an effective leader in our parish.
I do know one thing that will get immediate attention from Fr. Dan and the diocese: when people start to vote with their pocketbooks and donations take a nosedive.
Posted by Tony, a resident of another community, on Nov 23, 2007 at 7:27 am
log on to the CCOP website and communicate to Father Dan directly through his email. I did on Wednesday night and he responded within hours. I believe that he does not fully believe how divisive the issue is. You can also log onto the diocese of Oakland website and voice your opinion, what ever you believe
Posted by Member, CCOP 20+ years, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 10:09 am
Yes, send your comments and opinions to the Bishop and Father Dan. We've always been told "YOU ARE the Church". This new issue at CCOP will certainly test that proclamation that we have heard so clearly for so many years.
Or, unfortunately, it may prove that it is the Church hierarchy that really is the Church, not us. Father Greene should resign his position as pastor, but I wonder if he is being allowed that option?
Posted by pat, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 4:20 pm
The people so against Fr. Greene have probably never been apart of the great service he is to the ministries he has been apart of. I think it is just as bad to parade your children outside a church servic holding signs that say masturbation. The majority of the people "actively involved" with the parish back Fr Greene. Just saying you are a member doesn't count unless your are actively involved.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 23, 2007 at 5:29 pm
I think that people that carry signs and speak up when it counts are actively involved. Parish members are saying what they need to say. The opinion is diverse and the conflict is public. It doesn't get any better than that! As for Fr. Greene, I strongly believe that he should step down for the parish to heal.
Posted by Paul, a member of CCOP, a resident of Dublin, on Nov 23, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I am an ACTIVE member of CCOP. I volunteer to do several activities in the parish. My wife and my children participate in several church activities too. We , all, spare a considerable amount of time for the benefit of the CCOP community. Now, having said that, I strongly oppose Fr. Padraig's nomination , though I know what he has done. This is because, he lost my respect when this issue has come to the light. In my opinion, he does not have the moral standing to become the next Pastor of this community.
Posted by jesse, a resident of the Country Fair neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 9:09 pm
"majority of the people "actively involved" with the parish back Fr Greene. Just saying you are a member doesn't count unless your are actively involved."
GET REAL! You have to be kidding! You think only fringe people are opposed??? My family was here when Fr. Greene was here before, we know of his great contributions. We have been VERY ACTIVELY INVOLVED for 20 years. In fact, if our last name was printed here, you would immediately recognize it if YOU are involved! That DOES NOT mean we don't care about Fr. Greene. However, he SHOULD NOT be the leader of our parish.
Posted by Anne, a resident of the Civic Square neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 9:23 pm
I wrote Father Dan, and got a nice reply back that said he respectfully disagrees with me-it seems he wasn't very impressed my by statements. I am being as kind, Christian and loving as I can, but it was very difficult for me to sit through the Thanksgiving service with Father Greene there, knowing about all that is going on. I felt a little sick to my stomach. I love the church very much, but I think it will be hard to look him in the eye, or to take communion from him. I have no intention of leaving the church, and will continue to participate in all that I have agreed to do, however, some of the joy is taken away for me.
Posted by John, a resident of the Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 9:30 pm
I have been an ACTIVE member of this community for 20+ years, as well. I'm sorry, Anne, that Fr. Dan "respectfully disagrees", as it shows he is NOT listening to the people. As posted a bit before, many times he has said ""YOU ARE the Church", so we are now seeing the validity of that statement, i.e. a complete farce and untruth. As with many others, I will be leaving the church WITH my youth center pledge AND my weekly contributions. There are other local parishes that can use my talents, and many other worthwhile, truly CATHOLIC charities that can make good use of my money.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 23, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Fr. Greene is not the parochial administrator yet! More members of the parish are speaking out. Even if he is installed, nobody can predict how long he will remain in that assignment. People self sabotage, be patient. This "crisis" is not over until it's over. Find ways to take back the joy. Se se puede/You can do it!
Posted by adriana, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 10:04 pm
I must say I am very disappointed with Pleasanton Weekly's recent reports on this issue. I have trusted our local paper to perform true journalism, presenting all facts to readers, allowing them to make decisions on their own, without expressing suggestive titles and not encouraging and supporting angry behavior. Father Greene was a Priest in Pleasanton for about 5 years, this incident occurred a few years BEFORE he came to Pleasanton. While here, he did an amazing job supporting the community, creating ministries, etc. Last Summer, while attending mass in the Fairgrounds, Father Dan announced Father Greene was appointed as the new Pastor. The community applauded and cheered in joy while standing for over 5 minutes..The same overwhelming reaction was seen that same day in the other masses and in the following weeks. The community TRUSTS Father Dan's and the Bishop's recommendation.
And for all of you who are involved in the church or not. Would you cast the first stone? Stop and reflect: What would Jesus do?
Posted by John, a resident of the Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks neighborhood, on Nov 23, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Adriana...perhaps you should read the rest of the New Testmant? What Jesus said to the pharisees and ones who didn't follow his way? The whole "cast the first stone" and "love others" is really irrelevant in this situation. Again, READ the rest of the N. T....jesus wasn't always a love and kisses type of guy!
Yes, Fr. Greene was here years ago...and no one knew his past. Does that mean he should be our HEAD HONCHO?? LEADING US? i THINK NOT! Like many others have said, it's not about forgiveness, it's about the qualities of a leader. If he had done this and had ANY OTHER JOB, he would be out on his tail...except in our beloved Catholic church.
Posted by Georgia, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Nov 24, 2007 at 2:30 am
As a widow, and a senior citizen, I would like to voice my embarassment at being a part of CCOP right now. Perhaps my generation has different sexual mores, but for a person to be PUBLICALLY masturbating in such a fashion and ARRESTED for it,
makes me blush. You may say I am old fashioned, and fuddy duddy, but thats how I feel. I want to hang my head when mention of this comes up in conversations with people, and I don't know how to cope with these feelings in church. My husband was desparately ill for several years, then I have been a widow for four yours and have been celibate WITHOUT masterbating, and think a priest should also be able to do the same. Perhaps you won't hear from many of us older folk as some of us are not computer literate, and others would not want to even mention this in public-do you think all the little old ladies that attend daily mass will post on this site? I think not. Please consider what kind of public image we want to show and give us a different priest as senior pastor.
Posted by Grandma's Girl, a member of the Pleasanton Middle School community, on Nov 24, 2007 at 8:50 am
Georgia, if you are old fashioned and fuddy duddy, then so am I, and so was my grandmother! When I was a little girl, my grandmother taught me to run from boys or men who said and did nasty things like expose themselves in public places. (Yes, people used the word "nasty" back then for this sort of behavior.) This good, good teaching of my grandmother's protected me and my brother when, one Saturday morning, we were playing outside our apartment complex and a teenage boy walked up to us and exposed himself. We ran from the boy -- we ran all the way home -- and we told our parents all about it. Our parents comforted us, they told us the boy was nasty and dangerous, and they said we should stay away from people like that. My grandmother and my parents strongly reinforced our natural, self-protective response to behavior like Fr. Greene was arrested for 8 years ago.
Father Greene was not a teenager caught for the first time doing this sort of thing. Do you think Fr. Greene woke up one morning in the Pleasant Hill rectory in 1999, at 40-something years old, and decided to go out and try this thing for the first time? (portion removed by PW staff)
I'm going to listen to my grandmother, and to Georgia. I am going to stay away from Fr. Greene, even if the Bishop, to his shame, forces Fr. Greene on this community. There are other priests in the parish who say Mass, and there are other parishes nearby. My kids and my husband and I are staying away from Fr. Greene.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 24, 2007 at 11:38 am
SI SE PUEDE! If you're patient, Fr. Greene will self sabotage. I gave the topic of Fr. Greene lots of thought during the holiday. The table was full of lots of yummy treats; turkey, mashed "potatoes", salsa, stuffed chili peppers, mole, barbeque armadillo, stuffed squash and baked apples/raisins, etc. Still, I had this feeling that Fr. Greene will be appointed but in time, he will repeat his behavior and get forced out. I'm sorry you feel the way you do John, I'm following all the rules as stated and I don't plan to disappear. Happy Holidays everybody!
Posted by Matt, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Nov 24, 2007 at 4:45 pm
This kind of behavior is part of the reason I'm no longer a practicing member of the Catholic Church. Forgiveness is one thing. Ignoring blatant risk to your children is another. The atmosphere of guilt and denial is sickening considering it is the churches ordiantion to bring the light of God to its parishoners. The church administration continually demonstrates it cares more about its priests than about the people. It is not for us to judge Father Greene, but it is for us to protect the children, the sacred life granted to us by the divine will of the Creator. It is shameful that people would baptize their children into the faith and begin them on their path to the sacraments, then to allow the kind of harm to befall them at the hands of the very people that claim to deliver God's truth and are the earthly embodiment and representatives of his love. This is the evil of the world. The evil in the Church's actions is the continued policy of coverup and denial, of transferring the "issue" to another parish, the denial of sin. Without confession, there can be no atonement; without atonement, there can be no reconcilliation. How can we give sacred trust to a Church and its priests that have betrayed its own sacrosanct principles apparently without much remorse? Just because someone says they are obeying "God's will" doesn't make it so. This is an instution of men, and it is corrupt. What is worse that some people use denial to avoid dealing with the fact that this institution that they have given themselves over to so deeply has far too many wolves in shepard's clothing. Also to shame is the church for it's handling of these affair for the sake of all the decent priests that have lost the trust of their people. I do not deny God, but cannot see how this pattern can be His will, and will not entrust my spirit or body to the Catholic church until there is some change for the better.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 24, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Matt, you sound like my husband who, too, has chosen to no longer practice in the Catholic Church for all of its hypocracy and inaction over this sort of thing.
His very devout mother, like Grandma's Girl and Georgia, is having a very difficult time with this issue, as well. She'd felt that with all the publicity of past abuses...the church would finally make proper and accountable decisions. She is very old fashioned and she matter of factly says what he did was a sin against God and the Catholic priniciples (in addition to putting our youth at risk of exposure). No ifs ands or buts.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 24, 2007 at 6:56 pm
The majority of Catholic priests are good men whose judgement and moral character is EXCELLENT! The bad apples are in the minority. It will take a priest of great moral character to lead St. Augustines out of disgrace and toward healing.
Posted by active CCOP member, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 24, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I have been actively involved in various ministries for 16 years and also worked with Fr. Greene for several years.
The police report is shocking to me and many others. Fr. Dan and the diocese did not tell us the truth. Padraig Greene should step down to let the community heal. I am not able to celebrate Eucharist with Greene at the altar.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 24, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Is there any connection between Fr. Dan & the bishop not telling the parish the truth about Fr. Greene and seemingly forcing the parish to accept him? I wonder if what he did may contaminate the altar and the experience of the Eucharist? His behavior seems to have had a toxic effect on the parish, so why not also on the physical structures (church building)in which he is present? I'm not sure if what Fr. Greene did can be present in any way for the parish to recover its joy and once again walk in the light?
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 9:26 am
I think Matt hit the nail on the head perfectly. Sometimes I feel that many of you who do support Fr Greene are doing so just because 1) he is a priest and 2) he is someone you've had personal interaction with. Is it just convenient to hide behind the phrase "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." instead of talking about the real issues? All this talk about forgiveness but we forget to talk about risk and consequences of sin.
Yes, forgiveness is risky. Jesus asks us not to forgive 7 times but 77 times. Why is that? Could it be because He knows that people may sin again? Furthermore, God doesn't say that forgiveness means there are no consequences. God forgave David but consequences of David's sins still followed. Why should this situation be any different? Why should it be insinuated that those of us who don't trust Fr Greene are not being forgiving?
Posted by Will B. Herd, a resident of the Del Prado neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 10:50 am
Take action and influence a new choice for pastor:
1. Give to other charities - Donations speak the loudest. Until the decision to name another pastor is made redirect your weekly church donation to other local charities not associated with the Diocese of Oakland.
2. Volunteer your time to other causes - Your time is valuable and you should spend it with organizations whose leaders you admire. Refusing to carry on with any volunteer work you perform as if nothing has changed and making the conscience choice to donate your time elsewhere will be noticed.
3. Unregister from the parish - Taking your name off the parish roll and refusing to have your family name associated with an organization you do not agree with is an easy, yet powerful statement. Other churches in the area are: St. Raymond Parish in Dublin and St. Charles Borromeo Parish and St. Michael Parish in Livermore. These parishes are part of the Diocese of Oakland, so give to other local charities instead until a new paster is assigned to CCOP.
Posted by conflicted, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 11:11 am
I am really conflicted on this one but given that I have had experience with Father Greene's ministries I am leaning toward trying to take the Christian foregiveness road and give him the chance to lead. We are all sinners. I remember how many people were at his farewell reception a few years ago when he was reassigned away from the parish. It was a tremendous outpouring of love and suppport for him--due to the absolutely great work he had done in his ministries. He helped me in one of his grief ministries and retreats--he absolutely helped me spiritually, emotionally and probably physically as well. As a practicing Catholic for over 50 years, he was simply one of the best priests I have had contact with. I bet he is a better priest now because of his traumatic experience in 1999, assuming he learned from it---all we can do is hope on that one. I know I am a better person now after the turmoil I experienced in my life--that Fr. Greene assisted me to get over.
If we are truly Christian, we should give him a chance.
Posted by Monica, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 4:03 pm
After mass on Saturday evening, hearing Fr. Green's homily I could feel his embarasment and shame. I have struggled greatly with this issue, going back and forth, should he or shouldn't he be our pastor. Last week I started reading the book, "Medjugorje, The Message." This book is about the Blessed Virgin Mary appearing to six children in Yugoslavia. She spoke with these children every day for 18 months, telling them what God wants from us.
After mass on Saturday evening, when I'd come to better terms with the situation after hearing the sermon from Fr. Green, I read these words which were given to one of the children by the Blessed Mother in Medjugorje in 1981.
"The Madonna told me that I should tell the people that many in our time judge their faith by their priests. If a priest is not holy, they conclude that there is no God. She said, "you do not go to church to judge the priest, to examine his personal life. You go to church to pray and to hear the Word of God from the priest. This must be explained to the people, because many turn away from the faith because of priests. People must understand that they shouldn't scrutinize a priest's private life, but listen to what he says through God ---- God's word."
My children worked with and went on retreats with Fr. Green when they were young and told me that Fr. Green was the kindest of all the priests when he first came here and never showed them any inappropriate behavior.
The blessed mother also said, "Pray for our priests."
Posted by Trish, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Regarding sending your contributions to other charities. That's just what the devil would like. Destruction of our churches. Are we going to let the devil tell us what to do? What would Jesus do? Do you want us to be without the Catholic Churches in our Diocese? Think about it.
And as far as divorce goes, the church isn't against the divorce, just the remarriage. There is always the annulment process if you really want to remarry.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 25, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Until the Blessed Mother weighs in on Fr. Greene engaging in an afternoon delight and getting busted for indecent exposure/lewd behavior, I won't pray too much for him. I don't think that the devil will ever have as much money as the Vatican which I've heard is worth trillions. Ask the Vatican for some money if need be. It seems to me that Fr. Greene cut a deal with the devil and then got betrayed and busted by the cops. The devil tricked Fr. Greene into believing that earthly pleasure were more important that his sacred vows...NOT! Fr. Greene is toast, he will never regain the full trust of his parish. He destroyed the trust and it is unreasonable to expect social cooperation. Ain't gonna happen until one of the good priests comes along and leads the community of faith into the light.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 5:55 pm
The Catholics in our family do understand the Eucharist and they feel strongly that they can no longer take Eucharist offered by the hand of the very priest who used that hand for lewd behaviour.
Sorry for the awful visualization but that is exactly what they all concluded.
Those for forgiveness,
Please stop mistating the act of forgiveness. Forgiveness is for the individual more than the receiver. The receiver is offered a chance at judgement being "withdrawn" yet should still be held accountable for their actions by the appropriate leaders.
Posted by Mulling it over, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Catching up on these posts, and after reading Monica's above, I wondered if you could relate what about Fr. Greene's homily on Saturday caused you to think this over some more? Anything in particular he said? I was out of town and missed this. Thank you. (and please, no bashing for desiring more information)
Posted by pause, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 7:55 pm
I must disagree.
...forgiveness is also for the receiver.
Has anyone ever apologized to you? If so, Tell me it did not make you feel better as a person for someone to have valued you enough, to say they were sorry for a hurt inflicted?
Forgiveness comes when we accept when another person offers their deepest sorrow for having hurt us. I believe that has happened. He acknowledged, he is remorseful and he has asked for forgiveness.
Certainly you can CHOOSE NOT TO FORGIVE, that is your choice. You do not have to forget to forgive. You do not have to reconcile to forgive. Forgiveness is a gift to another human being for a wrong they did and for which they have asked forgiveness. We are all better off when we forgive. Holding onto this will not make you feel better. Letting go, understanding humanness and allowing everyone to heal, is a great gift. You can stay in the brokenness, the angry and bitter, the shock, the line in the sand. It is your choice. Do what you feel best about. But for some of us, we see a greater good in this human being than the tale of one indiscretion.
Posted by Matt, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Nov 25, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I can forgive a murderer. But he still belongs in jail.
Part of reconciliation is acceptance of the consequences of your sin.
Part of Fr. Greene's and Fr. Danielson's reconciliation must be the acceptance of the fact that they can not hold the trust of the people. Have they apologized to the parish for withholding such vital information? Have they admitted that in this time of scandal that they truly care about their parish and their concerns? How could they appoint someone with a clearly questionable background into such a position?
This isn't about Fr. Greene's schnanigan's in a bathroom. It's about how the church is betraying the faith and the faithful.
I am amazed at how eager some people are to forgive this priest. Forgiveness is one thing, acceptance as leader is another.
I'm amazed at how many would give this priest a pass on this behavior as a spiritual leader, I bet the same people were the one's riled for Clinton's impeachment.
Give your blind faith to God if you must, but not to the men of the church.
I'm amazed at how some members of this community are so dogmatic that they refuse to understand what the dogma means.
This kind of behavior by the Church is why there is Protestantism in the first place.
The church is not God, contrary to what some would have you believe.
For those of you that would damn me and others questioning the church to Hell, thanks for showing how Christian you truly are.
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 25, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Maybe the reason Fr. Dan and the Bishop support Fr. Greene is because he is the only priest in the diocese with only one arrest. I know that there is long list of priests that have broken their vows. Maybe Fr. Greene is the best available for parochial administrator at this time? Can anybody name a few priests in the Diocese of Oakland who could also be nominated? Can you name a few dozen nasty ones? YUP!
How come so many are being accused of wrong doing and why is the Catholic always having to pay out so much money? Where does all the money come from that is being paid out? I don't shake hands with people who are left handed. Sorry, it's just not right!
Posted by Monica, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 26, 2007 at 11:51 am
There's really no sense in continuing to speak with so many righteous people. The priests are not God. They are human beings with human faults. I do follow the bible and Jesus told us not to judge.
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Jesus also says not only forgive 7 times, but 77 x 7. And, woe to those that don't repent.
We all need to pray and let God do the work in our church. Pray and then pray somemore and stop all this bashing. I really don't believe that's what Jesus wants from us.
Posted by mac, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 26, 2007 at 12:58 pm
On the contrary, Monica, I think Jesus and God are waiting for us to do some of the work...like standing up for what we've been taught and for what we believe in. We are not meant to stand by and embrace what we've been taught is wrong.
Forgive, yes. But stop lowering our values and beliefs to suit those who offend and then want to lead us.
Posted by A Christian, a resident of the Pleasanton Heights neighborhood, on Nov 26, 2007 at 4:19 pm
It sounds Like Fr Dan has a favored spot in his heart for homosexual
relationships given his past dealings. This discredits his lecturing the Parishoners about the merits of Fr Padraig Greene. It is a sad state of affairs when the community must become split over such a matter of irresponsibility. I tend to agree that one does not drive 20 miles to visit a parks bathroom with the reputation for illicit sexual activities. The Bishop is leading CCOP down the wrong road on this appointment. There will be nothing but growing aynomosity as time moves along. The Priest can be forgiven; the real problem is the cover up by the Bishop - Oakland Diocese and the existing Pastor, after all that has publically preceded this decade in millions,and millions of settlements. It is sad indeed
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 26, 2007 at 6:21 pm
For a person that doesn't enjoy communicating with so many "righteous" people, somebody sure like to spook people with talk of the Devil. I doubt that you're gonna go away because you keep on posting!
At last, somebody has said the "h" word...homo. Just a reminder, God created Adam & Eve and not Adam & Steve. Got it?
I have no faith in books about apparitions. However, I do have faith in CA law. Lets not forget, Fr. Greene was arrested for breaking the law; there is a police record and he did jail time. The faith community was lied to by the Bishop and Fr. Dan. They seem to trivialize the record and dismiss it because there was "no conviction." It's too late to make it invisible. The record in public record.
Healthy adults don't loiter in park toilets known for "cruising" unless they are on the make. As for not be taken seriously, the Bishop likely believes that this to will pass and the parish will fall into lock step with Fr. Greene. Like some folks say, if you don't like, then you can find another church. Very Christian!
Please do not allow folks that quote the Bible to hook your guilt. The people that keep quoting the Bible maybe have no thoughts of their own. How dull.
Posted by Pause, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 26, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Human-ness is what life is about. If you cannot accept eucharist from him, then go in another line! Many of our contemporary saints sinned. Maybe it is time to read about them., They were NOT perfect and without blemish! Their sins were transforming. The pain of life stregthen us. Tries us. helps us grow. Do you not think this man is changed since this episode? Why would he continue to reach out to this community and try to heal? He could just as easily walked away.....and we would suffer a loss...and those who have sinned in this community would be left feeling they have to leave, as well. Staying and being forgiven is his greatest gift. He is leaving a legacy greater than what those of you with agendas can. Step back and PAUSE. If you have no agenda, you will feel the human-ness touch you!
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 26, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Amen for the complex explanation re: rise of Protestantism in the first place!
Healthy males don't loiter in park toilets known for attracting sexual predators. Some posters talk about not being practicing Catholics anymore but post like it's going out of style.
Hmmmmmmmm? As for dogma, I have two mini dachshunds.
I think that it's cool to disagree. What with all this talk about chatty ghosts in the former Yugoslavia, the Devil, forgiveness, telling others to shut, is Will B. Herd the only person with a working brain? Dare I say AMEN! or HOORAY!
Posted by clinton I did not support, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Nov 26, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Matt- just for the record...I did not support Clinton and his interlude.. This happened in the Oval Office with another person
(a subordinate he knew), he never served any jail time, nor did any counceling or treatment.... he denied it and keep going as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA.....as though nothing happened!!!!Not remotely alike!
This incident happened with no one, he did jail time and went for treatment.....and has been helping people in pain before and ever sice! Sorry, I see no likeness...maybe you do, that is your choice, But I see none!!
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore, on Nov 27, 2007 at 9:19 am
Clinton: the indecent exposure/lewd conduct happened with a vice cop actively present. The parish is hurting because the Bishop & Fr. Dan lied to them. Part of Fr. Greene's legacy is that he helped fragment a community of faith by getting arrested and trying to conceal it. He used the name "Patrick Green" as a dodge but got found out. There is lots of artful dodges going on; talk of the devil, apparitions, Clinton, calling lewd behavior a speck of dust, telling others to forget, supporting violation of CA law by immigrants, telling people to SHUT UP! Is the grief of the parish ever going to end? At this point, all of this conflict and upset is the voice of your grief. You see, Fr. Greene's behavior harmed lots of innocent people.
Come Christmas, the harm visited upon you will continue because you know that you were DUPED by the leaders that you trusted. If anybody tries to pass off a wolf in shepherd's clothing as some kind of spiritual leader, you are making a very serious mistake. You're being treated like lemmings, if you don't like what the bishop serves up,you can jump. Nobody is going to heal anything until the likes of Fr. Dan and Fr. Greene are long gone. Turn a blind eye or jump, pick and choose and then off with you! Not too pretty is it? Merry Christmas...NOT!