Is the “TownSquare Forum” being used for anti-Obama, right-wing propaganda? State, National, International, posted by Ron, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 9:42 am
Since the Pleasanton Weekly began the “TownSquare Forum” feature, I’ve always been under the impression that the forum would be used to discuss and debate local issues. Instead, I’ve notice a recent trend of forum users posting daily anti-Obama rants and general right-wing propaganda that sounds like it could have come directly from the mouths of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or Sean Hannity. Such recent post titles as “Obama the Muslim” have little to do with local issues, and more to do with AM Radio/Fox News conservative talking points being regurgitated on this forum. Many of these posts are completely baseless attacks on Obama and Democrats. They are rife with conservative fear mongering, and founded on rumors and innuendo from extremist websites (Karl Rove style). While I don’t necessarily feel that the Pleasanton Weekly should censor these types of posts, I don’t think these postings are constructive for our community and reflect only a small percentage of citizens who seem to thrive on fear and divisiveness. Any thoughts on this?
Posted by resident, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 9:53 am
Consider the source of the rants. These people are like taggers with a blank wall, they need to "express themselves". Much of what is posted on this forum is here only because it is anonymous. Those who post rants would not likely place signs in their yards stating their views, they hide behind the anonymous post and spout their views here instead.
Posted by Tera, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 9:56 am
Yes the forum is being used for right-wing propanganda. Everyday I see something that sounds like it was written by Rush Limbaugh himself. Since conservatives are powerless and Tea Bagger movement was a bust/joke, they have to turn to the Pleasanton weekly to release all their fear and hate.
Posted by Billie, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:04 am
I just posted a comment on another thread, but I had to say that you, too, are spot on with your comments! There is definitely a recent proliferation of anti-Obama posters that have been blasting this forum with their brand of hate and mis-information. They use code words like socialism, muslim, and voodoo to hide what is really ethnic and religious predjudice.
Although lambasted for it, I believe the Homeland Security report on rightwing extremism was right on (pun intended) when it stated that the economic recession and the election of our nation's first black president could lead to increased rightwing extremism activity. Look what we're seeing on just our small town forum.
There wasn't this kind of vitriol while Bush was eliminating the middle class, running this country into deficit by trillions of dollars, and pushing us into a war of choice - in the wrong country. But then, Bush is a good old . . . white . . . politician.
Posted by SteveP, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:13 am
OK, I'll take the bait.
While it may not be the perview of the Weekly to deal with everything thrown it's way, I distinctly recall our esteemed Democrat mayor exclaim that all national issues are also local issues. Her quote from her travels (on our taxpayer dollars) to the World Peace Forum in Vancouver in 2006:
"I fear that my country, the United States of America, is failing to affect real leadership," said Jennifer Hosterman, mayor of Pleasanton, California, referring to the responsibility of mayors around the world to take action on national and international issues that affect their communities.
The fact that we now have an inexperienced failure of a president in office, who happens to be a socialist-Democrat, does not diminish our requirement to locally criticize 'national and international issues that affect their communities.'
I'd be interested as to how you determined that the numerous letters critical of the adminstration in power constitutes a minority, especially when you described it as a 'trend'. More people than your circle of immediate comrades are concerned with the direction this country is being taken.
Posted by Freedom isn't free, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:30 am
So let me see if I understand this correctly:
If I don’t think like you, if I don’t want to be taxed like you do, if I express a different opinion than you, then I’m not welcome in my community? There have been many anti-conservative posts telling me to move away, perhaps to Texas.
The fact that I was born in California, the fact that I have never been convicted of a crime, the fact that I’m raising children in a happy home and my children excel in school and I own a business that employs people who are in this country legally and I volunteer countless hours in public schools and I’m highly educated and pay my taxes seems to be a problem with many of you.
You really do want less people like me in Pleasanton / California / the United States. I’ve got news for you – as long as our U.S. Constitution works, I will defend my right to speak and by the same token, I will defend your right to speak as well. No true conservative would do otherwise, but many on the left would like to shut us down – the proof being the comments on this thread.
Posted by Parent of Two, a resident of the Val Vista neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:40 am Parent of Two is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
I've found that the comments on this thread (and the Internet in general) tend towards the extreme views that people are afraid to express in person for fear of retribution or ridicule.
Be honest, how many people have you actually heard say "I think Obama is doing a great/horrible job"? NO sane person would talk about politics unless they're with like-minded friends, but the anonymity of the Internet emboldens people to blather their right/left wing views.
Posted by Parent of Two, a resident of the Val Vista neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:44 am Parent of Two is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
But it is interesting how the Obama-philes try to minimize anyone who thinks his policies are anything but heaven-sent.
Without using the name Bush, can anyone point to something GOOD that Obama has accomplished? I can name a few terrible, idiotic things he's done (international faux pas, financial bailouts, socialized healthcare proposals, RAISING an already terrible deficit, et al)
Posted by Del, a resident of the Mission Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:50 am
I see, so all you right-wingers cried foul when Hosterman talked about a national issue, then you hypocrites make gutless, anonymous anti-Obama posts on a daily bias. At least she had the courage to show her face! I love how you’ve determined Obama is a “failure” after he’s only been in office since January and inherited the huge mess from your hero GW Bush. SteveP, have fun in your doom bunker letting Limbaugh do all the thinking for you.
Posted by Sara T, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 10:59 am
Don't worry fellow dems, the demographics in Pleasanton are changing. The conservatives are starting to move out of Pleasanton based on fear of demographic stiffs that have taken place in this town over the decade or so. They fear people that are "different" than them. I'm sure they'll have fun living in the wonderful conservative success story that is the Central Valley.
Posted by Freedom isn't free, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:10 am
Bring on the hate, Sara T., Del and fellow travelers. It's a great, open forum. What makes our nation special is that each of us is sovereign in our rights. It's a radical notion - thank God for the wisdom of our founders.
Posted by Liberty for one and all, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:30 am
I believe this forum incorporates a section for state, national and international issues, if you would like to look at the categories for the town forum.
Furthermore, here is just one article posted by the Editor that is about Obama. Web Link.
I believe free speech belongs to all of us, including those that disagree with your viewpoint, regardless if it is left or right. The conservatives that post here are honest, but are not hypocritical in saying that another group doesn't have a right to speak out and criticize.
I believe the "left" was adimant about "criticizing the government is patriotic" when Bush was in Office. Hmmm...sounds like they only want it one way. What happened to their mantra about "choice"? Oh, I see, they only want choice for their ideas. Got it.
Posted by SteveP, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:32 am SteveP is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Del, I'm a registered poster on the Weekly, so I guess that qualifies my as semi-anonymous!
I'd defy you to find one previous post I've made bashing your pick for president. So you've made at least 2 other two major mistakes in your rant:
1. You assume that all Obama's problems are Bushes fault--conveneitn to have a scapegoat, but about as fair as blaiming Clinton for all the events that paved the way for the 9/11 attacks.
2. you missed my point entirely regarding the use of Hosterman (very defensive, by the way). What eluded you was the point that all politics is local, so it's entirely appropriate to post criticism's of the administration because it's 'constructive for our community'.
To ignore the issues of the day and the problems being addressed is akin to burying your head in the sand, while running for the cover of your like-minded friends crying foul because their guy is being criticized.
Posted by Julie, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:35 am Julie is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Ron, my thought is that I agree with your observations. I have found it very disconcerting. Honestly, I wouldn't enjoy seeing such daily rants about George W. - someone I can't stand. Such attacks are not welcome no matter at whom they are directed.
Billie, another amazing post! I just responded to a post of yours elsewhere.
Posted by Original Joe, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:40 am
"NO MAN WILL EVER BRING OUT OF THE PRESIDENCY THE REPUTATION WHICH CARRIES HIM INTO IT." Thomas Jefferson
"THEY PICK A PRESIDENT AND THEN FOR FOUR YEARS THEY PICK ON HIM." Adlai Stevenson
Obama can take it and I know he expects criticism as all Presidents have and will. But where is all this hate coming from...move to Texas, move to the Central Valley, etc.,etc. Time for a reality check...WE ARE ALL AMERICANS...and you don't have to accept views other than yours, but you do have to defend the right to say it.
Posted by SteveP, a resident of the Parkside neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 11:50 am SteveP is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
"There wasn't this kind of vitriol while Bush was eliminating the middle class, running this country into deficit by trillions of dollars, and pushing us into a war of choice - in the wrong country. But then, Bush is a good old . . . white . . . politician"
Billie, you couldn't be more wrong. Bush was bashed constantly by leftists for 8 years, along with constant whining about how he won the elections (both of them). He and his family were the target of numerous attacks from small-minded Dem. followers. How conveneint it is to have short, selective memory.
Speaking of small minded, why did you choose to bring race into the discussion? Did someone post recently about Obama's race being a factor or is your comment more of the recent publicized racism against white people in power, a la Sotomayor?
Posted by Rush Limbaugh, a resident of another community, on Jun 12, 2009 at 12:26 pm
It's good to know there is someone that loves GW Bush as much as I do. By the way, do you if there is a good pharmacy in town that is "liberal" when it comes do dispensing pain killers. I'm also looking for a non-ethic restaurant with "liberal" portions.
Posted by Privatize, a resident of another community, on Jun 12, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Obama stole the election (just look at some of the photos of intimidation at polling stations on Hannity's site and you'll know what I mean). Illegals voting. Right wing view points are systematically purged by the liberal media.
Posted by My 2/100, a resident of the Mission Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:00 pm
No, the 1st Amendment is alive and well, and I'm glad that people can post here anonymously or in person. There are no "conspiracies" with respect to right-wing propaganda; the Pleasanton Forum is simply the easiest way for the gullible and foolish to sound off in front of hundreds of people without getting laughed at.
I find it a little ironic that the Pleasanton Weekly staff are occasionally the targets...after all they're paying the bill...but they seem to handle it in good humor and everyone grateful for the forum if not their editorial position.
Allow me my small piece of freedom: Privatize, you are either over-the-top nuts, or your posts are some kind of bad performance art. Your very ability to post here contradicts your last post.
Posted by Me, a resident of the Canyon Creek neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Republicans and religious christians are VERY angry and feel defeated. Much more vocal than Dems were the whole time Bush was running our country into the ground. Pundits like Ruch and Hannity are creating a civil movement of hate!
Posted by More than a pi$$ing match?, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I too would prefer this forum aspire above the blathering (More entertainingly articulated) by the Pros at Fox, MSNBC, Air America, Radio Talk, etc.
Anyone have a point / topic / perspective we haven’t heard before?
I’ll start with a question:
Why is it that Pleasanton with all of its affluence, progressive thinkers, now aging Business Park, and 2nd Bart Station, still playing “Catch Up” with Livermore?
Livermore is giving Walnut Creek a run for their money, and we’re getting dusted.
Much of our energy, money, thought goes into petty partisan infighting because we have no common goal. The only thing left are Draconian causes like SDE, Oak Knoll, and what ever happened to the ban on those little stickers on produce?
Posted by Billie, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:20 pm
There is a way on this forum to discuss the monumental issues we face as a town, county, state and nation without denigrating a person's ethnicity, religion, gender or the size of their . . . mind. Unfortunately too many of the anti-Obama posters are caught up in trying to villify Obama rather than present their ideas in a clear, cogent way without using hate language and mis-information.
Racism takes many forms. Alot of the racism on this forum is couched in the terminology/code words used to describe someone. Many of the anti-Obama posts contain words like Socialist, Marxist, Muslim, voodoo, sarcastically refer to him as Messiah, claim he's anti-American, use his middle name as a put-down. You, yourself have referred to "Obama Kool-Aid" and him as "comrad Osama" on the thread "Obama's proposed tax on soda" (which, BTW was proposed during a Senate Finance Committee meeting by Michael Jacobson of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, not Obama).
Posted by Johnny, a resident of the Country Fair neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I am one of the Obama bashers as you say and am not a right winger at all. As a matter of fact I voted for him but am very upset with the direction he is taking this country and I fear for the future of my family, neighors, and most of all my children. I did not think must of McCain and felt Obama might be a legitimate alternative but at this point I must say I was mistaken and would do it differently if I had the chance. We should be able to express ourselves however we deem necessary while free speech is still protected under the constitution. More change will be coming and with it will come critics and I think by what is going on you can expect a lot more noise and not less.
Posted by Stupid is as Stupid does, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Welcome to today's P town. Shut up and just get in line with the program. Don't post on here unless you can mimic the sentiments that we want you to mimic. Don't listen to Fox news you stupid, uninformed idiot. We will tell you what to listen to and read for that matter. Then we will tell you how to interpret it.
Don't discuss or debate the facts or outcomes...discuss good intentions. Instead accept the mandate the that government should be allowed to do whatever it likes, so long as it is for "good reasons". And if you speak out, publish your name on this forum.
Apologize and humble yourself now for even attempting to think and voice an opinion. In fact, feel guilty that you think you can.
The first amendment only applies to who we say it applies. Its time to ration speech here on this forum. Better get use to it...cause health care is next.
And don't forget: loathe the free market, believe in free health care, oppose success, inherited wealth or any kind of wealth, spend vast sums on public education, purge Christianity from, well everything..., and insert the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life.
Forget any freedom of expression, freedom of ideas, freedom of beliefs, freedom to engage in the whole messy rough and tumble of vigorous debate. Quit assuming you live in a town (or country) that can distinguish freedoms.
We can do the thinking around here in P town (and in the US for that matter)
Hep Hep Hep ....get in line..... If you disagree call someone a hater, right winger and God forbid, hit them where it really hurts: someone who might actually listen to Rush or sound like Rush An oh, don't forget to accuse them of violence while you are at it.
Keep name calling and accusing and trying to shut them up. Be persistent with this approach. Keep doing it every time they try to exercise any freedom. Sooner or later you can wear them out and eventually they will shut up.... better yet...go away.
All I can say is: Warning: You eventually will destroy yourselves.
I see progress. Based on the comments and efforts of those who want some to shut others, real progress. And it is encouraging.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me
Posted by hmmmmmm, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I do not recall anyone standing up for George Bush when he was getting attacked for everything under the sun and in most cases personally. No one stands up to Letterman when he makes disgusting remarks about Palin's 14 year old daughter and honestly his remarks for a 64 year old are quite disgusting and disturbing but hey have you have seen his wife? Well if so you can almost understand why he is attracted to 14 year olds.
Posted by Julie, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 pm Julie is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion. The problem I have with all the anti-Obama posts (I see today he is "Emperor Obama") is that they are not simply about expressing opinions or trying to open up healthy discussion and debate. Their goal is to defame, incite, frighten, etc. Certainly "W" got his share of bashing, all presidents do. Was he bashed here at this site to the degree that Obama is? I only began posting recently. Were there actually daily rants with such titles as, "Idiot George"?
Posted by hmmmmmmmmm, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Julie, these are the words used in this blog by the Obama supporters so you tell who is defaming, inciting, frightening, and insulting?
"Consider the source of the rants. These people are like taggers with a blank wall, they need to "express themselves". Much of what is posted on this forum is here only because it is anonymous. Those who post rants would not likely place signs in their yards stating their views, they hide behind the anonymous post and spout their views here instead."
Seems a little threatening to me when he or she refers to signs in yards. Sounds like this person might be the reason people do not put signs in their yards.
"Yes the forum is being used for right-wing propanganda. Everyday I see something that sounds like it was written by Rush Limbaugh himself. Since conservatives are powerless and Tea Bagger movement was a bust/joke, they have to turn to the Pleasanton weekly to release all their fear and hate. "
You are aware that Tea Bagger is a homosexual term for a sex act which is intended to degrade.
"There wasn't this kind of vitriol while Bush was eliminating the middle class, running this country into deficit by trillions of dollars, and pushing us into a war of choice - in the wrong country. But then, Bush is a good old . . . white . . . politician"
White politician huh? Could you imagine the angst if Obama was referred to as a negro?
Posted by Duck, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Julie, you're offended by "Emporer Obama" but apparently you don't recall "King George" which was used to highlight claims that Bush ruled by his own free will.
Don't recall anti-Bush posts on this site? I don't either because I don't either because I don't think this site was available until recently. Go back and read letters to the editor from 12-18 months ago and I think you will find many over-the-top letters about Bush. Be thankful we still have the freedom to criticize our leaders in spite of the attempts by many to censor it.
Posted by Ron, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm
This just in! As I said before, we have our daily anti-Obama hate posting called "Emperor Obama". I'm sorry, I don't remember George W. Bush critics blasting him everyday on the "TownSqaure Forum." I guess the right-wingers can't help themselves.
Posted by Julie, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 5:22 pm Julie is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Fine, you may not agree, but I think this is one thing he has done that qualifies as "something good":
President Barack Obama lifted restrictions on federal funding of human embryonic stem cell research Monday, angering abortion opponents but cheering those who believe the study could produce treatments for many diseases.
Posted by Stupid is as Stupid does, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Parent of two: I submit 2 ideas for consideration.
1)He has perfected the definition of an opportunist with his desire to accumulate unchecked power.
2) He has made millions of Americans re-educate themselves with their heritage, US history, and the brilliance of the Constitution that our founding fathers foughtand died for so that We The People would be FREE
Posted by Julie, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 5:28 pm Julie is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Here's a guy that keeps track of what Obama does - I thought it was funny: whatisobamadoing .com. I'm not offering it as a credible source, but if it's true Obama has done these things, then I'd be able to find more acts that qualify as "good" to me.
1)no reputable researcher believes that embryonic stem cells show any promise in the near future
2)recent discoveries that some adult stem cells can be turned into any cell type in the body may make discussion of embryonic stem cell therapies moot.
3)The growth of the more primitive embryonic stem cells is more difficult to control and leads to tumor formation.
4)new sources of adult stem cells are continuously being discovered.
5)President Bush in August, 2001 did not ban embryonic stem cell research. It merely limited government funding in the US to the 72 embryonic stem cell lines already in existence.
6)An experiment showed that the use of embryonic cells in mice with Parkinson's led to brain tumors in 20% of the subjects. In another experiment in diabetic mice, embryonic stem cells were successfully converted to insulin—producing cells in the pancreas, but all the subjects died. This contrasts with the full cure of diabetes in mice using transplanted adult stem cells.
7)Advances in adult stem cell research since Bush's 2001 decision have been nothing short of awesome. At a recent Senate hearing on cutting—edge adult stem cell research, two young women, victims of horrific automobile accidents causing spinal cord paralysis, actually walked into the hearing room. They described their dramatic improvement after spinal cord paralysis. They were treated in Portugal by transplantation of their own stem cells, taken from olfactory tissue that has the ability to form new nerve cells.
8)in Germany, a cancer victim whose jaw had been removed re—grew bone tissue utilizing adult stem—cells from his own bone marrow.
9)in Germany, a cancer victim whose jaw had been removed re—grew bone tissue utilizing adult stem—cells from his own bone marrow.
10). A recent PBS special recounted other significant human cures with adult stem cells, and a Texas surgeon liposuctioned himself to promote excess fat as a viable source of adult stem cells.
11)Senator Jon Corzine has donated $100,000 to help pass Proposition 71 in California, which would force Californians to borrow $3 billion over 10 years to help biotech companies to conduct mass experiments on embryonic stem cells. the private sector has refused to invest in this type of research because it is unlikely to provide useful products any time soon. Jim Kelly, a Colorado stem—cell activist who is a paraplegic, agrees with private venture capitalists and says, 'We have to use our limited resources efficiently. Money spent on embryonic stem cell research and human cloning is money that cannot be spent on (investigating) adult stem cells.
12)A recent poll has shown that Americans strongly prefer funding research that does not destroy human embryos.
13)Yet another reason has emerged why there is incessant pressure for embryonic stem cell research, despite mounting evidence of its inferiority to adult stem cell research, in testimony before a Senate Committee on July 14, 2004. After discussing the cases of the two paralyzed young women who were now walking after adult stem cell treatment in Portugal, Dr.Jean Peduzzi—Nelson pointed out that an embryonic stem cell product could become patentable and potentially yield enormous profits. But an adult stem cell therapy, in which the patient's own cells were used, could not produce a patentable procedure or product according to current laws.
Posted by Julie, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 6:17 pm Julie is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
I realize that this likely won't make a difference to those who are against embryonic stem cell research for religious purposes, but keep in mind that when the term "embryo" is used, it's a 4-5 day old "blastocyst" (hollow microscopic ball of cells) that was created in a petrie dish. I think when most people hear the word embryo they visualize a fetus - an unborn baby with hands and feet.
SIASD- thanks for the web link and information. I think research on adult stem cells is a great idea. For every point, there is a counterpoint though:
Posted by Buford, a resident of the Birdland neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2009 at 8:29 pm
First off, get your John Kerry-like big words out of my face. This ain't France! Lets get down to some to some good ol' Richard Pombo values, straight shooter talk. How we going to turn Pleasanton into the next Tracy or Modesto with all them liberal values gone wild?
Posted by frank, a resident of the Pleasanton Heights neighborhood, on Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Is the “TownSquare Forum” being used for anti-Obama, right-wing propaganda?"
IT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT IT IS!!!
I recommend to let them continue since all involved, reader, poster, and PW will figure out how to handle this when everyone tires of the tactic to which the obedient followers of Rush have resorted.
One recommendation is to divide the blog into TOWN SQUARE and NATIONAL ISSUES, and perhaps STATE ISSUES. Then, the PW can set up software for different blog subjects. The posters who post in the wrong blog will have the PW "oberfurher" manually re-assign posts into the appropriate blog.
Posted by Dude!, a resident of the Civic Square neighborhood, on Jun 13, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Just saw this SPOT ON post in another topic area! Right ON!
Truth Be Told:
Posted by Left, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, 1 minutes ago
Yes, the Right Wingers are PISSED off here! Almost TEN years of efforts to controlling what people beilive, what they can and can't do with their own bodies etc. and they LOST the thier battle for now.
My inlaws go to one of the biggest local churches and we attended recently with them. There really is quite a "save the world" "us against them" "the world is doomed" attitude. They are on a MAJOR crusade. Folks like O'Reilly, Hannity, and Rush are spewing retoric that is escalating to a point of civil war. Fraction groups such as supremist are gaining momentum and planning to carry out revenge.
Most Right Winger are more into civil PEACE and compassion, so we're
going to see an interesting time here moving forward. Some of these Right Wing Fanatics are a MAJOR DANGER to our Life, Liberty and FREEDOM.
Posted by Stupid is as Stupid does, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Jun 13, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Julie: The two web links you offered were appreciated however I'd like to comment upon both.
The first WEB link cited much of the info from 2007. (outdated) Michigan had laws prior to "08 that limited even what the federal gov allowed under embryonic research. Having passed the law in "08 to allow embryonic research more $$$$ were allowed to flood into the system to support their research efforts.
The second WEb link you offered was 2007. Too old, given all the advances and "research" that has taken place in the past 2 yrs.
Having said that I suggest caution when looking @ either "side" of the argument. Look at the outcomes. The outcomes, Julie w/ embryonic stem cell are just NOT there.
Take it out of the Religious and political arena. Judge the choice of stem cell research on the OUTCOMES each have produced. I think one would have to agree that the the evidence is overwhelming w/ adult and just not there w/ embryonic.
Below is some excerpts from a June 14 2009 article and clearly shows how $$$$ are attached to embryonic because it keeps the research alive (no outcomes, then we just have to do more research)
Not sounding cynical, but that is the intent of much of what happens in any kind of research. The full text of the article is below. However, please at least read the last paragraph I cited @ the bottom of this post.
"In today's scientific climate it can be professional suicide for researchers to publicly question the medical worth of industry-preferred agendas, like embryonic stem cell (ES) and cloning research, or to expose the myth of 'science serving man"
"while it appears that science and industry are using disability and disease to exploit human fetal and embryonic life, the truth is far worse. The push for ES and cloning research may exploit us all"
"On the other hand, the efficient advancement of clinical medicine (through cord blood or adult stem cells, for example) would remove the pretexts for research donations and public funding. It would threaten biotech patents and pharmaceutical profits. Gravy trains would derail. Gold-laying geese would fly away (or rise from their wheelchairs and walk)."