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BART training managers to operate trains

Original post made by Joe, Another Pleasanton neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2013

On the news this evening, BART is proactively training managers to operate trains so that limited service can be offered in the event of a strike. Some BART management employees are already certified as train operators; the training now in progress will increase that number.

Two trains were taken to an offsite facility for the employee training. BART unions limit training of non-union personnel to offsite trains. The limitations on training are a good example of the self-serving nature of the BART unions.



Comments (41)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Good
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 20, 2013 at 12:31 am

We already subsidize Bart enough without being held hostage to ridiculous demands from already overcompensated employees.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by David
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 20, 2013 at 1:14 am

I echo Good's comments. Plus in addition to being over-compensated, BART station personnel have some of the worst customer service attitudes I have ever seen.
The labor unions are out of control with their demands and existing benefits. And yes, im sorry to say it, but that includes the teachers union and other public agencies. .


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Citizen
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 20, 2013 at 8:57 am

Bart and the SEIU are doing a great job alienating customers! Hire and train non-union employees at current wages and they'll be standing in line at the HR office.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by AlamedaCountyNative
a resident of Foothill Farms
on Sep 20, 2013 at 9:27 am

Why is the union dictating to BART who and when they can train? Who is in charge?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:20 am

I support union members who quite possibly will go on strike.

They have a legal right to strike.

They have a stressful job and they perform their tasks well.

Americans have a right to form unions. A union is not illegal.

VIVA WORKERS! GORA!





 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:23 am

Many of the posters on this blog are like little sticky flies, buzzing around for a high by trashing working Americans.

One would think that they would be happy knowing that there are Americans who work for a living and care for their families.

What's so bad about that? duh...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:29 am

I sure hope that nobody is injured/killed if the managers fail to operate the trains properly.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Histage
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:43 am

We need to CORRECT the existence of PUBLIC unions.
Send in the FERRIES and have them ready and waiting.
I'm able to drive Honda cars and GM pickups, too. I'm sure the
managers will do just fine....and get that insane suicide clause
of 'nobody else driving during a strike'. Those were Dumb negotiators. ALL those clauses MATTER...NO more suicide clauses.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:46 am

Daveg is a registered user.

In the same respect...............would hope that union members would be able to operate trains properly. The fact is that the unions has prevented, via their current contract, any training by others when a union member is available. Then, again, via their contract, one needs 16 weeks of training before certified. However the training is more extensive than really needed as a transit operator does little actual hands on as the system is highly automated. If a problem develops and the operator has to actually run the train, they are limited to 20 miles an hour..


 +   Like this comment
Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 20, 2013 at 11:01 am

The unions say that safety is one of their main concerns in the contract talks. If that is so, they have to remove the clause that BART cannot train replacement employees unless the union employees are not working. That clause HAS to be removed from the contract. If employees go on strike and there is an accident of some type, we should blame the union because of their contract clause that does not allow safe training.

The current contract really shows who is in charge of BART. It is not 'the people'. It is the union workers. The union workers need to be reminded they work for us, not the other way around.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 20, 2013 at 8:13 pm

Daveg is a registered user.

Cholo's comments that add absolutely no value to this conversation have been flagged for removal. It's childish comments that Cholo makes on almost every posting that diminish any value on the PW Town Square. There is real concern from the general population regarding the possibility of a strike from a union that is unfortunately being very unrealistic in their demands. Unions have value, however in this case, they have managed to alienate most people through their unwillingness to modify their extreme positions. To have somebody like Cholo, offer continued drivel such as "thank you for sharing lunk heads" shows a total lack of understanding, but rather a pathetic attempt to interject herself into a conversation that she knows nothing about.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Joe
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

A quote from today's news: "Union leaders said operating a train is a skill that takes more lesions than what the managers are getting. They insist what BART is doing could be dangerous for passengers."

Of course the union contract expressly prohibits any training of non-union personnel on powered trains. That's why the BART cars had to be removed from the system in the first place.

The unions want to have it both ways. They "want to insure the safety" of passengers but also want to be the only group that can deliver that safety. A most self-serving position.

Given the talks that have occurred so far between the BART unions and management, it looks like a strike is imminent. I'm beginning to believe that this whole situation has to get worse before it gets better. Let the unions strike, let them attempt to hold the Bay Area hostage, let them raise public outrage to a point where they lose the small amount of support they have left.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 1:40 pm

Joe, you are right. The unions put language in the contract to cause an unsafe situation. I hope the management has that clause removed as part of the current negotiations. If there is a problem because of that clause, I hope some lawyers sue the union for endangering the lives of the public.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 21, 2013 at 3:18 pm

I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN and it's very American to support a union. Union members are American citizens and they may call for a STRIKE after the cooling off period. I strongly support a STRIKE as long as BART officials continue to negotiate in BAD FAITH.

Hopefully, more Americans will continue to join Unions to assert their needs as workers. If anybody believes "that unions put language into the contract to cause an unsafe situation" I would strongly support your right to file a complaint with the appropriate authorities/agency and not just on this blog. The comment is intentionally inflammatory and I strongly encourage you to file a complaint and not depend on others. Otherwise, your remarks have no credibility.

If Daveg is so focused on the training of BART train operators, then I strongly support that she present an analysis of what constitutes formal training for train operators.

I don't believe that inexperienced BART officials should drive a BART train in excess of 20 miles per hour. Am I the only one who believes that the public safety is primary?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm

Daveg is a registered user.

Cholo, you may have a hard time explaining how BART management is negotiating in bad faith. Here's a quote from the Pleasanton Weekly Opinion column for your reading "The demands by BART's unions for a 21% raise over three years is simply unaffordable for BART and unreasonable by any measure." Please explain your irrational comment after reading the attached.
Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 21, 2013 at 3:40 pm

FYI: Web Link

VIVA WORKERS! VIVA! GORA! tee hee...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm

Daveg is a registered user.

Cholo, still wondering where you get the idea that BART management is negotiating in bad faith. The unions demands are unreasonable and unsustainable for BART. Did you bother to read the PW editorial?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 21, 2013 at 4:45 pm

What's interesting is that on the one hand I'm informed that my posts add no value to the conversation and that I've been reported to PW staff with a recommendation that my comments be removed.

On the other hand there is an attempt to engage me in a dialogue re: BART/Union dynamics?

A mixed message? Crazymaking...YUP!

hmmmmmmm...is this an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.....BUSTED!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 5:43 pm

Once again Cholo adds nothing to the conversation.

I have seen BART management negotiate and has given in some but the BART union has not moved an inch. Very clear to me that the unions are not bargaining in good faith.

I encourage people to to the mercury news salary database. I was looking up Station Agents and found they make a ton of money. $62K salary, up to $26K overtime, $7K Other, $16K Medical expense, $8K employer part of pension, $4.5K employer picking up employee part of pension, $1800 Deferrend compensation, $2K Misc. Total cost for those employees are $110K to $120K. Train operators are costing around $150K (some up to $172K). Even those who clean cars are costing around $100K.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Joe
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 21, 2013 at 5:50 pm

Readers, it's best to just ignore this Cholo poster. He's like a kid throwing rocks into the water to watch the splash.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 21, 2013 at 6:48 pm

My concern: When the strike begins, how do you plan to get to work if in the past, you have depended upon BART?

It's a good time to start planning so that you can get back 'n forth to work.

Good Luck!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by ??
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 21, 2013 at 6:59 pm

I find the topic of safety curious. How many train operators are you actually able to understand when they announce the upcoming station? Not many has been my experience!! But isn't the most important role of the train operator to be able to direct the riders during an emergency? I can't imagine the chaos when an operator is not able to communicate clearing over the microphone. If the union is serious about safety, it seems like the first place to start is with operators learning to be able to communicate clearly over the loud speaker. Then move on to their other issues. After all, shouldn't it be about the riders, who by the way, are paying the bills through fares and taxes?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 7:05 pm

I heard an interview today with an union rep who said that the safety issue is if there is a derailment these newly trained people would not know what to do and it would be unsafe. I do not ever remember hearing about a BART train derailment. If there was one while on strike, I think there would be a big investigation into the union doing this. For the most part, the trains run themselves. If there is a problem, the train operator phones the central station for instructions and they can only manually run the train up to 25 MPH. I do not see how hard it would be to train somebody to follow those instructions.

I agree that the issue of safety is curious, unless there is sabotage by those on strike.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Joe
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm

BART has what the industry calls PTC - Positive Train Control. It is impossible for a train to go too fast, or to go into a section of track occupied by another train. If the operator falls asleep, the worst that would happen is that the train would pass through a block and then coast to a stop.

In the event of a derailment, the train will stop automatically. There is nothing an operator can do to prevent a derailment, other than not speeding, which they can't so anyway because of PTC.

Further, BART train operation is completely monitored by an operations center. Again, not much for an operator to do, other than get on the loudspeaker.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 21, 2013 at 7:27 pm

I think that the more serious issue has to do with BART officials engaging in sabotage and possibly harming passengers.

Innocent riders could be injured and possibly even lose their lives.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 21, 2013 at 8:50 pm

Daveg is a registered user.

Rather silly (being polite) regarding the comment by Cholo on BART officials engaging in sabotage. To what purpose would they engage in sabotage? More likely any sabotage would come from union members.
Web Link
Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Ridiculous
a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Sep 22, 2013 at 8:08 am

Bart management should do what Ronald Reagan did to the Air Traffic Controllers in 1981 - Fire them! If Bart workers don't show up for work after the deadline, then give them 48 hours to return and then give them their pink slip. As Reagan said - "There is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, at any time."

I support Bart Management to train others to operate trains.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Scott Walsh
a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Sep 22, 2013 at 10:58 am

BART MGT should go one more step and pay the Managers that are trained to run trains the wages of the real train operators. If we want to save money---let's save Money. Train Operators are a safety necessity. Heart attacks, violence, etc.? "Monitored at ops center....what happens when the power goes out? What happens when terrorists attacks or earthquake? Both sides need to communicate and get this thing done. I do not believe the media gives the workers a fair shake--MGT. Biased.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 22, 2013 at 11:17 am

Hopefully, both sides will eventually resolve the current conflicts.

If they choose not to resolve the impending crisis, may I politely suggest that BART riders seriously consider whether or not they wish to place their lives in the hands of upset BART management that will be forced to operate the trains.

think about it...Do BART riders truly want to place their lives in the hands of angry and frustrated train operators? think about it...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 22, 2013 at 11:52 am

Ronald Reagan is dead. May he Rest In Peace.

Why would anybody wanna raise the dead?

i rest my case...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anti-Cholo
a resident of Rosewood
on Sep 22, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Hey Cholo, you've made 12 useless postings here and you're just cluttering up the posting board.

Go rest your case some where else!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 22, 2013 at 3:48 pm

Scott, we would love to save money by training new train operators but the unions will not allow this to happen. The unions are forcing management to be trained as train operators. However, I understand why you are biased for the unions since you have been a member of a public employee union and involved as union leadership. I don't think the system is management biased now. Management is doing what it can with the unions tying the hands of them behind their back. Makes it much harder to work but glad the management is thinking about the riders who rely on public transportation to get to work.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm

Update: Web Link

can we all get along...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 24, 2013 at 5:06 pm

$400,000.00 + $99,000.00 for BART Chief Negotiator:

Web Link

nifty money!!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Daveg
a resident of Birdland
on Sep 24, 2013 at 9:18 pm

Daveg is a registered user.

Cholo is up to 14 useless postings now. If only she could stick to the subject! Management is attempting to train managers for the simple reason that the union has made it impossible to train anybody as long as a union member is available. Comments that try to enflame a pseudo "safety" concern hold absolutely no validity.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm

If it comes down to BART management driving trains, may all the passengers remain SAFE.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 25, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Should there be a BART strike, UC Berkeley suggests the following for its employees dependent upon BART:

Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 25, 2013 at 5:05 pm

I sure hope that Dave doesn't report Cholo or fly around like a livid Lady Bug trashing the C just because they don't see eye to eye on soooooo many issues...lordy onliest knows that C is trying to help out by posting info that could help commuters should there be a strike.

signed,

friend of Cholo forever and ever


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Sep 30, 2013 at 9:12 am

For those of you that wear a wig or a hair piece, better hang on cause IT'S GONNA BE A BUMPY RIDE!

tee hee...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 7, 2013 at 3:35 pm

I PRAY THAT INNOCENT BART COMMUTERS WILL NOT BE TOYED WITH BY BART MANAGEMENT!

MAY ALL RIDERS REMAIN SAFE AND ARRIVE AT WORK ON TIME.

CONSIDER TAKING ALONG A THERMOS, WATER, FOOD, IN THE EVENT THAT THE TRAIN THAT YOU ARE RIDING GETS STALLED IN THE TUBE.

I PLAN TO RIDE BACK 'N FORTH ON BART TRAINS, INTERVIEW PASSENGERS, EVERY DAY UNTIL THE STRIKE IS OVER. MY INTERVIEWS WILL BE FORWARDED TO NATIONAL NEWS NETWORKS.

VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!

HOPEFULLY, ALL COMMUTERS DEPENDENT UPON BART, WILL REMAIN SAFE.

BEST OF LUCK TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THIS TERRIBLE INCONVENIENCE.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 9, 2013 at 6:28 pm

In case you haven't guessed, a STRIKE is exactly the outcome to "negotiations" that BART management desired.


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