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California is the New Detroit

Original post made by New Detroit on Aug 18, 2012

Excerpts from this article:
Web Link

"Like Detroit, California now has one party rule. The Democrats of California did not need a single Republican vote to pass their budget. Governor Brown's plan is to address the nation's largest deficit by raising taxes instead of cutting spending. If passed, the deficit would drop from $20 billion to a mere $16 billion. The budget does nothing to cure the systemic problems of a bloated bureaucracy. It does not eliminate one of California's 519 state agencies.

"Today, California is following Michigan's path with exploding pension obligations, a declining tax base, and disastrous leadership. Housing prices have fallen 30 to 60% across the state, evaporating trillions of dollars of equity and wealth. Unemployment remains stubbornly high and under-employment is rife. Do our politicians need any more signs?"

------
It is way past time for Californians to wake up. In addition, local media like the Pleasanton Weekly should do much much more to expose the disastrous impacts of liberalism and democrat policies. Media like the Pleasanton Weekly have been part of the problem.

Comments (39)

Posted by b, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 9:54 am

So move somewhere else. I hear Texas is paradise.


Posted by Can't wait, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 10:21 am

Good suggestion and I can't wait. Just sent my oldest off to college in Texas and my youngest graduations next year. After that, I look forward to visting my friends in CA from time to time.

I did an analysis on the collective tax burden on western states and was somewhat surprised with the results:

California - 100%
Oregon - 89%
Idaho - 79%
Utah - 51%
Montana - 46%
Colorado - 46%
Washington - 20%
Nevada - 20%

(meaning Nevada's total tax burden of my household will be 20% of that in CA)

I chuckle at how many equivalent new works it is going to take to replace my CA tax payments. But with the direction CA is going, high income earners leaving the state and more welfare recipients entering the states, I believe the state is already in a death spiral.

I'll have a special smile on my face for public employee unions shills like you who continue to defend the state. But I hear that I'll have plenty of company with CA government employee pensioners who are living in others states because their pension dollars stretch farther. LOL


Posted by New Detroit, a resident of Amador Estates
on Aug 18, 2012 at 11:54 am

Hey b,
First opportunity we have to leave, we will, after our kid finishes high school (at a non-government school, btw).

I will be more than happy to leave big-government statists like you behind to pay the State bills.

Yes, we are part of the 1% too...so there will be fewer of us to help this State, and you, out.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Aug 18, 2012 at 12:42 pm

i'm so afraid that you're gonna move...oh, please please stay, we need your change...por favor

the sooner you get out of ca the better...and yes, i'm part of the 1%...tee hee

as for can't wait...nobody in ca likes you anyways so git...i mean it...


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 12:51 pm

I am continually saddened by the laws the government in this state passes with little or no real debate. We seem to be caught in a downward spiral with no way out. Democrat politicians know they will win, so there is really no accountability.


Posted by john, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 12:59 pm

I just love comments like "at a non-government school". Like the University of Texas or University of California schools are so terrible because they are "government schools". Last time I checked, both systems have excellent reputations and Fortune 500 companies recruit their graduates aggressively. Maybe you were planning to send you kids to Liberty University or Bob Jones? Is that your idea of excellence in education?

I'm happy to agree that the California budget is a mess, and I would even place more of the blame on the Democrats, but knock off the simple minded all government is bad nonsense.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 1:06 pm

John, new Detroit was talking about high schools. Everyone knows CA ranks last or next to last in k-12 public school education when it used to lead the world.

B - from the article: "California's business climate now ranks dead last according to 650 CEOs measured by Chief Executive Magazine. Apple will take 3,600 jobs to its new $280,000,000 facility in Austin Texas – jobs that California would have had in the past. Texas ranked first in the same survey."


Posted by Ginny, a resident of Downtown
on Aug 18, 2012 at 1:42 pm

Cal is next to last in k-12; next to last in % of tax dollar devoted to education. Gosh, think there's any kind of correlation there? Just askin'.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 2:50 pm

There sure is a correlation! And given it's one of the highest taxing states in the country I wonder where the money is going? Actually I don't wonder I know. And as soon as we stop the generous handouts to perfectly capable people and the spending on unsustainable pensions etc, kids in this state might have a chance of a decent education.

But the voters in this state will not let sensible reform happen and it's darn sad. People are generous here but demanding more money for a broken system is not going to help in the long term.


Posted by john, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 2:55 pm

Maybe "New Detroit" was talking about k-12, but in that case Pleasanton schools are ranked quite highly in that range as well. I'm glad my kids were in PUSD rather than Cardon West, for example. I'm sad about what happened there, and we have personal friends who were involved in that mess. My point was that government isn't automatically bad, despite what you may hear from Mark Levin or Rush Limbaugh.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 2:56 pm

And again from the article: "Governor Brown's budget will first slash money to schools and raise tuition on its students while leaving all 519 state agencies intact. He apparently will protect political patronage at all costs. Jobs, and job creators, are fleeing the state. Intel, Apple, and Google are expanding out of the state. The best and brightest minds are leaving for Texas and North Carolina. The signs are everywhere. Meanwhile, the voters send the same cast of misfits back to Sacramento each year – just as Detroit did before them."

When are voters going to wake up? Who will pay the taxes on the rich when they are gone? Who will pay for the pensions and generous entitlements? I guess the public sector as they'll be the last ones in the state with any money and jobs.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 3:05 pm

John, I agree that gov't isn't bad and I have no problem with good government spending. But bad government can be very bad and that is what has been growing in CA. There are such horrible consequences of what seen to be simple laws to "help" people and instead turn them into hopeless dependents.

You should see our neighbors who have 2 relatives living with them who are totally capable adults living off of the system and laughing about it. Driving nice cars, free all day, spending time at starbucks. Our money is going on them not the schools. Sad.


Posted by Can't wait, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 3:29 pm

John - to be clear here, my child got into all the top UCs in this state and received Regent Scholarships from three of them. Instead, he will be attending Rice - a higher ranked private institution. I'd rather pay the higher tuition and be free and clear of this state than have to stick around four more years and get gouged because the state can't get its house in order.

I don't have an issue with government schools. I do have an issue with a dysfunctional that sees increased taxes as its only solution.

This state is losing top talent and financial resources. It will be nice to be on the other side.


Posted by New Detroit, a resident of Amador Estates
on Aug 18, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Hey Ginny,
I suggest doing your homework before exposing your ignorance.

Pick your source from this google search below about the correlation between education spending and achievement.

Bottomline, there is very little or no correlation.

Web Link

Take Wash DC for example. Very high level of spending but very low level of achievement.


Posted by john, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 3:55 pm

To "Hmmmm",

"... the voters send the same cast of misfits back to Sacramento ..."

I agree. Fortunately, the state of California has more going for it (Natural beauty, climate ...) than the city of Detroit has. I hope the CA government gets its act together. We went through a period kind of like this in the late eighties and early nineties, but managed to turn some things around. I have hope. I like California too much to leave.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 4:43 pm

Fingers crossed they get their act together, don't see how with their plans for the state though!

We have young kids and moved here a few years ago to what we thought would be our forever home. We're fairly actively looking for a way out now because of the school situation. Shame, we like it here too, but education is very important to us. Sounds like your kids are out already, and I do think the schools were good. It's a mess now and getting worse though no fault of the teachers. I appreciate that you'd probably help with a parcel tax even though your kids are out of the system, but don't think that is a long term solution either.


Posted by Walter, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 7:15 pm

I think Ginny is getting at something important. D.C. is investing more tax dollars into education because so many of D.C.'s citizens don't have sufficient resources to adequately supplement public education (with things like books and computers at home). But no rational person would deny that California being almost last in education spending is going to have a severely dilatory impact upon our public school system. We need more tax money, and I trust Brown's request for more will bear fruit.


Posted by Can't wait, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 7:43 pm

You epitomize the mindset of why I can't wait to leave CA.

Just ignore the gross inefficiencies of all other areas of government and collect more taxes to pay for the stuff the dwindling number of tax payers care most about (education).

Best of luck with that endeavor.


Posted by Constant Comet, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2012 at 10:23 pm

You know the more I think about it, people leaving California is a good thing. I can't wait. I'm a native Californian, and all my life I've seen immigrants from all over (Texas, New York, Kansas, Michigan, .... the list goes on and on) come here and really destroy the place.

Now if about 80% of people left, then it would be the great place it was back in the day. Please leave. All of you. That way we can hunt deer in Martinez like we did back then, and share a beauty that was destroyed by tromping immigrants from every part of the United States.

PS: If you haven't lived in California for over 50 years or have at least 3 generations of Californians then this message is for you.


Posted by New Detroit, a resident of Amador Estates
on Aug 18, 2012 at 10:39 pm

Dear Constant,
You'll get almost what you wish for. Those with the financial means, like me, will leave. You'll be left with a majority of welfare recipients. How you going to pay all those government retiree pensioners living on guaranteed six figure incomes?

Nirvana? Paradise? Hope you are taking notes from the homeless on how to survive.


Posted by ?, a resident of Del Prado
on Aug 19, 2012 at 2:04 am

"Posted by Walter, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, 6 hours ago

But no rational person would deny that California being almost last in education spending is going to have a severely dilatory impact upon our public school system. We need more tax money, and I trust Brown's request for more will bear fruit."

By what metric do you conclude CA is almost last in education spending?


Posted by b, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 8:00 am

The problem with moving to Texas is that you then have to live in Texas.


Posted by considering an out of state move, a resident of Avila
on Aug 19, 2012 at 8:57 am

...It's a quality of life issue for me. Apparently there are many people that look at Texas as the better option. Check the U-Haul rates for rentals from CA-Texas vs. Texas-CA to verify.

I'm looking at Oregon, Idaho, Utah, and North Carolina. It's amazing how far your dollar can go in any of those states.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 9:42 am

We're don't need taxes to be low, bit if they're going to be high, like in CA, we're looking for a good school system and better choices for how tax money is spent. The union rule of the politicians here is very unsettling as is the pandering for votes from people who don't pay taxes.


Posted by New Detroit, a resident of Amador Estates
on Aug 19, 2012 at 10:10 am

Hey b,
In response to your post above, the problem with living in California is that we have to live where bottom-feeding parasites like you live.

Texas is a state for 'rugged individualists' live. By contrast you are a 'soft collectivist' which is a burden to society.


Posted by Walter, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 10:33 am

Texas as haven for rugged individualists, like George Bush and Rick Perry? Sounds like a myth to me. Wearing Cowboy boots doesn't qualify as rugged individualist to me. Texans wanted into the nation as a slave state. Not exactly ruggedly individualist, if you ask me. Has perpetuated this myth about defending itself against Santa Ana when, in fact, the Alamo guys were mostly greedy slave-owning individuals who collapsed when the Mexicans showed up to reclaim their land. Contrary to myth, Davy Crocket surrendered at the Alamo and then begged on his knees to be spared.

I love Texas, especially friendly and creative Austin. The Republican Teddy Roosevelt did so much to conserve the state's natural beauty. But my 'conservative' friends in today's drill first Republican Party have made a mockery of the legacy of one of the party's greatest presidents.


Posted by Walter, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 10:33 am

Texas as haven for rugged individualists, like George Bush and Rick Perry? Sounds like a myth to me. Wearing Cowboy boots doesn't qualify as rugged individualist to me. Texans wanted into the nation as a slave state. Not exactly ruggedly individualist, if you ask me. Has perpetuated this myth about defending itself against Santa Ana when, in fact, the Alamo guys were mostly greedy slave-owning individuals who collapsed when the Mexicans showed up to reclaim their land. Contrary to myth, Davy Crocket surrendered at the Alamo and then begged on his knees to be spared.

I love Texas, especially friendly and creative Austin. The Republican Teddy Roosevelt did so much to conserve the state's natural beauty. But my 'conservative' friends in today's drill first Republican Party have made a mockery of the legacy of one of the party's greatest presidents.


Posted by hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 10:40 am

Web Link

Here's an example of what our good government - including all Democrats and many Republicans - are voting for now. Can you imagine the new costs this will add to city budgets, but they still can't vote NO:

. . . "Assembly Bill 2451, Speaker John A. Pérez's expensive death-benefits giveaway to powerful police and firefighter unions. The bill blows the lid off the statute of limitations on service-related death benefits. If it passed, it wouldn't matter if the firefighter, police officer or prison guard died of heart disease or cancer at age 90 – 40 years after he had retired. A widow or other surviving relative – a brother-in-law qualifies – could claim a death benefit worth a quarter of a million dollars at minimum."

. . . .

"Sixty-nine members of the Assembly, most of them Democrats, voted to saddle the public with this new obligation. Despite a Republican analysis that pointed out the bill "will place a new and expensive unfunded mandate on local governments at a time when they are laying off peace officers and firefighters," most Republicans, including the GOP Assembly leader Connie Conway of Visalia, voted for it, too."

and of course the obvious question:

"Why did so few vote against this bad bill?

"Unions have a lot of power in the building," Assemblywoman Grove explained. "It takes a lot of guts to vote against unions."
And not many legislators have the guts to buck the unions who could end their political careers . . ."

Read more here: Web Link


Posted by Can't wait, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 11:40 am

This sort of crap used to agitate me to no end. Now I just remind myself that I have just a short while and then I can escape this insanity.

Thanks for the post though. I wonder if the sheeple of CA will do anything about it.


Posted by b, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 6:20 pm

I really don't get this thread. If you hate California so much, if it is such a disaster, why are you here? Quit your whining and get out of here! Leave California for those of us who appreciate it. We'll worry about the problems for you.


Posted by Walter, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 6:42 pm

Really? Unions having power is something we really should seek to eliminate? But then corporations would be able to buy off politicians without competition from unions that get the people out to vote. One uses threat of citizens voting (unions), the other (corporations) uses money to help commodify their chosen pols.

Californian kids have less tax dollars spent on them than any other state, save one. That's a pretty clear indicator if you ask me.



Posted by GX, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 6:45 pm

Must be contract renewal time for another public employee union.

Why else would b be monitoring these boards again?

Oh yeh, the City Council is going to try this week to push through a fire contract that will once again increase Pleasanton's unfounded liability.


Posted by Walter, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 6:56 pm

Dear GX,

I'd appreciate it if you could post messages here that did not impugn the character or integrity of other posters. New to these posts, your comments have had a chilling effect upon me.


Posted by GX, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 7:53 pm

Interesting response.

So I infer you view my associating b with public employee unions as a negative ...

As you are new to this board, you are not familiar with b's incessant defense of everything union.

As I subscribe to the notion of free speech, I'll politely ignore your request. Please don't take it personally. You are free to post what you want as am I.


Posted by GX, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 8:02 pm

I find what passes here for logic for some posters here numerous and one-sided.

CA is one of the higher and most progressively taxed states in the country and yet spends very little on education. Of course it must be because we are not taxing enough. It surely couldn't be because the rest of the state government is bloated and inefficient. Oh surely it can't be that.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 19, 2012 at 9:47 pm

Walter is in no way new to these boards, that have been taken over since P'ton started questioning pensions. Just another version of the same old troll. This version reminds me a bit of a perversion of "million dollar bonus" - does anyone get the reference?

And please do let us know how AB2451 isn't a perfect example of the premise of this whole thread. One party state - hopeless. sheeple wake up please!


Posted by Minimum Wage Taxpayer, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 20, 2012 at 6:46 pm

Having grown up in Michigan, and having lived in Detroit for 5 of the those years, with most of my family still living there and suffering from the economy there, I know California isn't as badly off as Detroit. Knowing the history and news of Detroit, the writer in the piece referenced above, forgets to mention about the corruption and embesselment that has existed in Detroit's government since the 1980's. That corruption is only surpassed by Chicago's machine. Yes, California has some major issues, much of which is a microcosm of what is happening in the country as a whole. Politicians who are so left or right, they refuse to compromise and a public and media that hound those that try to.


Posted by Hmmmm Back at cha, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 20, 2012 at 7:44 pm

Stacey, trolling under the name of Hmmmmm, like Minimum Wage Taxpayer (one and the same? probably), attempts to discredit Walter's views after discrediting b's views not by critiquing b's position but by impugning b's character. b defends union practices, therefore b must be on union payroll, and b's views are therefore to be disregarded. Because, you see, only right wingers could possibly have anything to say of any validity. Walter agrees with b, so Walter must be a trolling union employee as well.

If you want to see the lengths one trolling poster will go to, look at the rib-tickling 'debate' between resident and another independent on the Romney-Ryan commentary board. That's her version of civil dialogue. One troller talking to herself in a civil manner. Gotta love it!


Posted by on looker, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 20, 2012 at 8:42 pm

Posted by Hmmmm Back at cha, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, 53 minutes ago

"Stacey, trolling under the name of Hmmmmm, like Minimum Wage Taxpayer (one and the same? probably), attempts to discredit Walter's views after discrediting b's views not by critiquing b's position but by impugning b's character. b defends union practices, therefore b must be on union payroll, and b's views are therefore to be disregarded. Because, you see, only right wingers could possibly have anything to say of any validity. Walter agrees with b, so Walter must be a trolling union employee as well."

I guess you're starting to get it.

" If you want to see the lengths one trolling poster will go to, look at the rib-tickling 'debate' between resident and another independent on the Romney-Ryan commentary board. That's her version of civil dialogue. One troller talking to herself in a civil manner. Gotta love it!"

You did an admirable job defending the entitlement position.




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