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Taxpayer Revolt

Original post made by PleasantonTaxpayer, Another Pleasanton neighborhood, on Jun 6, 2012

Public unions from around the country have spent most of a year campaigning in Wisconsin...apparently for naught. There was a huge 7 point spread when taxpayers finished with their revolt at the end of the day.
Wisconsin has only voted for one Republican president since the 1960s. It is a DEMocrat state. This defeat of PUBLIC unions included DEMocrat votes as well as Republican. The 7 point spread was even greater than when the Republican Governor Scott Walker was elected, meaning his position about public unions had gained, not lost, in popularity.
The protesting unions, who decided to attempt a recall had even attempted to link private union to their cause. But of course, private unions are private, thus based on an entirely different principle than PUBLIC, GOVERNMENT unions who are employed and paid by TAXPAYERS. Trying to convince us our neighborhood plumber, who we have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE to call or NOT is the same...it is NOT ! We have NO freedom or choice regarding PUBLC GOVERNMENT unions who we are forced against our will to pay whatever they demand...we are hostages without recourse. The voters gave themselves a choice and spoke loudly yesterday.
Hopefully, Gov Brown, who created California PUBLIC GOVERNMENT unions 30 years ago as Gov Moonbeam, heard the message.!!
Broke taxpayers delivered the message. Hostage taxpayers cannot pay outrageous pensions, with much-too-young retirements. The blatent greed and excess can no longer be tolerated nor funded.
Greeks are beginning to hear the gasping message...stop the insanity! Enough is enough! There are sane and rational LIMITS, and they have been EXCEEDED !! Get real or get out !

Comments (39)

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Posted by Rose
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jun 6, 2012 at 9:28 am

Walker campaign outspent the Democratic challenger 8 to 1, with over 75% over Walker's contributions coming from out of state. Just goes to show what extent corporate America will go to oust their only effective competition. Sad but true.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 10:23 am

Stacey is a registered user.

And how many elections have been lost by the biggest spender?


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Posted by PleasantonTaxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 10:31 am

Governor Schwarzenegger had tried three initiatives to fix and prevent our condition, but our GOVERNMENT unions spent a fortune on TV LIES. So here we are ! Now to pull ourselves up and out, it is time to get serious in every city, county, and state. There ARE LIMITS and lines of decency that have been crossed.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 10:41 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Here's some analysis on House and Senate campaign spending and election outcomes: Web Link

Whitman outspent Brown by quite a bit.


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Posted by Sarah
a resident of another community
on Jun 6, 2012 at 10:59 am

Yes, Repubs usually outspend Dems, and that's often no guarantee that democracy will be defeated. But in Wisconsin an 8 to 1 margin was too much advertising and newspaper editorial buying to overcome. Are you insinuating that money DIDN'T have an impact on the recall? Rather strains one's credibility, unless of course you're a true believer Republican. The point that needs emphasizing is that corporate America, aided and abetted by Citizens United, succeeded in outspending America's working people 8 to 1, with large majority of spending coming from outside of state, and from filthy rich at that. If someone wants to proudly pound their chest about that, then I'd recommend they brush up on other fascist ideas as well. If corporations can afford to outspend the little people 8 to 1, we're doomed. Meg Whitman is an idiot who lost; Walker is an idiot who won. To make some sort of vague insinuation about some sort of equivalency is nothing but a demonstration of sloppy, ideologically motivated thinking. (As usual.)


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 11:14 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Only self-limited partisan propagandists like Sarah are capable of mistaking genuine inquiry for ideology.


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Posted by PleasantonTaxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 11:44 am

Sarah, DEM & REPUB TAXPAYING voters didn't spend a penny to cast their individual votes. Those free votes built to a 7% victory for TAXPAYERS ! STOP digging your own hole. Admit PUBLIC GOVERNMENT unions have pushed TOO FAR for TOO MUCH, with TOO EARLY retirements.
The greedy BIG FIST got stuck in the cookie jar.


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Posted by another taxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 11:57 am

So happy about the Wisconsin and San Diego / San Jose results. At last some proper hope and change.


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Posted by Bill Chabin
a resident of Laguna Vista
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:40 pm

Hmmmm, Stacey again sidesteps serious discussion by accusing all others except herself as trolls. We might well say such is the hallmark of her sloppy thought.

Pleasanton Taxpayer seems to think corporations outspent working people 8 to 1 in Wisconsin for nothing. Because campaign money doesn't mean anything, I guess. Votes are free. Campaign advertising which uses rhetoric, propaganda, misinformation and a range of manipulative techniques is simply wasteful corporate spending.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:43 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Thanks for that serious contribution to serious discussion, Bill. How much was spent per vote?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:49 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

As a result of genuine inquiry, I learned that campaign spending is also measured by how much is spent per vote. For example, Whitman's total spending was historically high, but the per vote amount was not. Total spending is going to be increasing as a voting population grows. What did you learn?


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Posted by Bill Chabin
a resident of Laguna Vista
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:51 pm

That's a disingenuous question, Stacey. It's easily calculable: for every one dollar contributed by working people (24% being from out of state), 8 dollars were contributed by corporations (77% which was from out of state). You want to sit down and do the math with Arnie and the other infantile quantoids, go right ahead. Your results will not change the math: corporate wealth bought the recall election. Now, shouldn't you be off doing what you do best, accusing me and others of being partisan shills, trolls, and ideologues, in an effort to censor all you do not like?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:56 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

It is free to vote. Influencing votes with propaganda is not free. Would Prop. 29 have passed if the discussion was not diverted from the subject of cigarettes by the opponents' $47MM propaganda?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 12:58 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Bill Chabin,

Word problems are difficult for you, aren't they?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:03 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Wisconsin campaign financing laws unfairly favor incumbents in recall by artificially limiting the amounts that can be donated to challengers. You knew that Bill, right?


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Posted by Bill Chabin
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:05 pm

Word problems constructed by folks who can't think straight do indeed pose difficulties for me. Try to spell out clearly what your point is, please. Whitman, cigarettes, trolling, shilling ... sloppiness spilling out all over this site. Do you actually have a point to make? Or are you having jollies simply insinuating crazy-making points that have no traction with the issues at hand? Very difficult to take you seriously. I think you are first among the worst trolls on PW Forum.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:11 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

The 8 to 1 advantage in the Walker recall election isn't even the whole picture because it doesn't include independent expenditures. As I wrote above, genuine inquiry escapes certain people.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:12 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Bill, forgot where you live, huh?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:17 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Bill, what's your own contribution to the issue at hand? So far you've repeated a talking point that doesn't reflect the true picture because of Wisconsin's weird donation limit for recall challengers and doesn't include independent expenditures.

The only point I'm making is about genuine inquiry. Try it some time.


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Posted by Rose
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:21 pm

Stacey seems to be personalizing the issues. Rather than address the challenge from Bill Chabin who hails from who knows where she hides behind vague and irrelevant facts. She expects us to be impressed?


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:24 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

The 8 to 1 ratio is based upon a false premise that counts only the contributions to the candidates. When the PACs, unions, TEA Party and all other money that represented a position in this election is counted, the ratio was about 2 to 1 in favor of Walker.

I have made my position clear in the past. Big money campaigns are ruinous to the country. Our politicians spend most of their time campaigning and raising money trying to get re-elected. This leads only to less representation for the voters, and more representation to whomever contributes the money.

If you get Democrats or Republicans alone, they will admit that this is not a good situation. But why do they not get together and self-impose rules about limits to campaign finance? With technology making communication easier and cheaper, honest politicians can easily communicate their message and positions to all voters quite cheaply.

Oops, I think I just answered my own question.


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Posted by Bill Chabin
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:39 pm

I own and rent out four homes in different parts of Pleasanton, and have two different residences as well. Yes, I sometimes get confused about my 'current' address.

Stacey, I've been responding to the moronic post that began this thread. All your 'inquiry' has done is indicate a certain inability to address an issue head-on. How come?

Jim the chronic liar has no credibility here. Go away, Jim, and spread your lies elsewhere.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:41 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Genuine inquiry around the subject of high dollar amounts spent per vote yields such information as this:

Web Link

and

Web Link

The numbers in the articles do appear skewed since it is almost certain that independent expenditures are not included in them. It's difficult to compare numbers when there's a lack of clarity as to whether the number is a measurement of amount spent per vote received or amount spent per potential vote.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:47 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Uh huh, Bill. "Sure."


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:48 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

jimf01,

Do you have any sources for that 2 to 1 number?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Bill Chabin
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:53 pm

Stacey's notion of 'genuine inquiry' is putting forward information that is questionably linked to the issue at hand but lacking the intellectual acumen to support the argument that is implied by the information. Here, since Meg Whitman outspent Brown, since Perry spent a lot per vote, we're supposed to conclude that 8 to 1 spending disparity in Wisc recall race is no big deal; that corporations, overwhelmingly from outside the state of Wisconsin, spent their campaign contributions on nothing much; and that hence corporate campaign contributions should not be factored into any assessment of an electoral outcome. Like I said: Stacey again showers us with disingenuous statements and sloppy reasoning. Cringe.


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Posted by another taxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 1:55 pm

I can't stand how union people use the work "working people" when they mean union people. Lots of people work until 65 or later to pay for your union retirements at 50 or so.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 2:04 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

You know what else is cringe-worthy? Bill's notion of an ideological argument is people asking questions to find out more information like "How many elections were lost by the biggest spender?" or "What's the amount spent per vote?" or "Does that 8 to 1 number include independent expenditures or not?". Bill hates people who ask questions.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Jun 6, 2012 at 2:11 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Look out Bill! More questions! How much was spent per vote in the 2008 presidential election?

Candidate (Party) Amount raised Amount spent Votes Average spent per vote
Barack Obama (D) $778,642,962 $760,370,195 69,498,215 $10.94
John McCain (R) $379,006,485 $346,666,422 59,948,240 $5.78
Ralph Nader (I) $4,496,180 $4,187,628 738,720 $5.67
Bob Barr (L) $1,383,681 $1,345,202 523,713 $2.57
Chuck Baldwin (C) $261,673 $234,309 199,437 $1.17
Cynthia McKinney (G) $240,130 $238,968 161,680 $1.48

Hey, McKinley spent more per vote in 1900, adjusted for inflation of course!


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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Jun 6, 2012 at 2:18 pm

jimf01 is a registered user.

Barrett has received about 26 percent of his $4 million in campaign donations from outside the Badger State, Walker has drawn nearly two-thirds of his $30.5 million contributions from out of state, according to campaign filings released May 29. Walker has outraised Barrett 7 ½ to 1 since late 2011, though Barrett didn't enter the race until late March.
...
Campaign contributions tell only part of the story. National unions have kept Barrett's campaign alive by funding outside groups dedicated to defeating Walker.

More than a year since Walker limited collective bargaining rights for most public employees, the nation's three largest public unions â€" the National Education Association (NEA), American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), and the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) â€" have channeled at least $2 million from their treasuries and super PACs to two Wisconsin-based independent expenditure groups.

The American Federation of Teachers, United Food and Commercial Workers, Teamsters and the United Autoworkers have also dipped into their D.C. treasuries for the Wisconsin recall.


On March 7, the NEA, the nation's largest union, transferred $3 million to its super PAC, the NEA Advocacy Fund. A week later, that super PAC sent $500,000 to the We Are Wisconsin Political Fund, a state-based independent expenditure group headed by the state AFL-CIO's president. The fund has spent the money on direct mail, phone banking, canvassing and support for other pro-recall groups in the state.

With access to unlimited corporate and union dollars, independent expenditure groups in Wisconsin may advocate for or against an opponent, but must disclose their donors and spending to the state's Government Accountability Board.

In early April, the SEIU sent two contributions totaling $500,000 to the We are Wisconsin PAC, which makes direct donations to candidates and parties.

The NEA and SEIU declined to comment for this story.

Union funds ground game

A third public sector union based in Washington, D.C., AFSCME, has set up a special account for the Wisconsin battles, which also include recall votes for four GOP state senators. Much of that money has gone to staff a vast, union-funded network of dozens of field offices in the state.

Two weeks before the primary, the national union wrote a $500,000 check to bolster We are Wisconsin, which has paid for union staff from Alaska to Massachusetts to boost the ground game.


Web Link


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Posted by PleasantonTaxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 3:35 pm

Thank you jimf01 for that important info. All the national PUBLIC union troops in Wis for this year, and the $100s of thousands $$ and millions from assorted PUBLIC union headquarters in DC shows just how hard they were fighting.
But a large number of private individual union workers (many struggling for small assignments) are taxpayers first and they know they do not have early retirements, and fat retirements, and paid family medical, etc so they didn't like, as taxpayers, paying for all those public union excesses, which Walker reduced, saving millions of taxpayer dollars...they voted with Walker and his plans.


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Posted by PleasantonTaxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm

In Gov Walker's 1 1/2+ yrs in office he has changed current pensions, now has balanced the budget,avoided layoffs, has sustained jobs, restored fiscal sanity. The government unions brought in national muscle and $$ and made a national referendum out of the issue. Well, now they have their national referendum ! ! !
Obama didn't show up for the countdown.


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Posted by Rose
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jun 6, 2012 at 7:39 pm


Wisconsin recall campaign spending
Recall campaigns are inherently difficult, because some people will oppose them on principle, even if they don't like the incumbent. But lest anyone be distracted by what really happened in Wisconsin, Scott Walker outspent Tom Barrett by ten to one. With numbers like those it shouldn't even be close.
But it was. Despite Walker outspending Barrett by ten to one.
The recall is over, and Scott Walker now can return to his normal routine of trying not to get indicted, as he reportedly is a target in the widespread scandal that has:


led to criminal charges against three of his former aides, an appointee, and a major donor and has just hit 13 people granted immunity and counting
But the bigger problem remains. The American experiment in democracy and republic is being corrupted by money. And unless that problem is addressed, this experiment will end in kleptocratic oligarchy.


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Posted by Rose
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jun 6, 2012 at 7:43 pm

... and Wisconsin. Where educational system is now in total disarray, where consumer spending is down, and where the rich are protected from evil unions that attempt to provide living wages and pensions for workers.


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Posted by Another taxpayer
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 6, 2012 at 8:16 pm

. . . And California. .Where the educational system is in total disarray, where consumer spending is down and the union workers are making 6 figure salaries and spiked six figure pensions and the real workers have to pay for it while their services are eroding to nothing.


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Posted by Rose
a resident of Carriage Gardens
on Jun 6, 2012 at 9:06 pm

Yes, California, where the wealthy continue to hoard their 7, 8, 9, and 10 figure incomes and blame public school teachers for everything under the sun. Where the top 10% own over 80% of the wealth and boo hoo about the working poor not paying their "fair share."


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Posted by Steven
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Jun 7, 2012 at 12:09 pm

Even "working people" voted for Walker in Wisconsin, and for pension reform in San Jose. No matter how much was spent, voters can see there is a problem.

It is not a matter of who spend the most. It IS a matter of "it's the right thing to do".

A quote attributed to Margaret Thatcher goes along the lines of:

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

This is happening now all over the country (and in some cases the world, as in Greece). Just like an over fished ocean, or forest, if the pensions are not reformed, there would be NOTHING left to harvest! The cities will go bankrupt.

The "working people" (the %99), are asking the public employees to be on par with what they are getting. Everyone is bashing the wealthy for their 7,8,9 and 10 figure incomes (as someone wrote above), but they are the minority. Right? The %1. We can outvote the wealthy!!

And the working people are voting for reform. Get used to it!!





 +   Like this comment
Posted by steven
a resident of Parkside
on Jun 7, 2012 at 12:20 pm

Yes, us steve's have to stick together. Everybody is bashing the wealthy, thats' why pensions need to be reformed. And the wealthy are spending 10s' of millions to cut corrupt union teacher's salaries because, well, they shouldnt because its just a waste of there money. But hey, its there money. Just like banks and the Wall Street guys. We need to ease up on them. The real working people no which side of the bread the butter is on.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Nomad
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Jun 7, 2012 at 7:29 pm

Let's see. Person runs for office promising to stop a high speed rail project, lower the tax burden on the citizens and balance the budget. Person fulfills their promises and is re-elected with a higher percentage of the vote. The loser's supporters wail and gnash their teeth and cry out 'Democracy Lost'.
I say Wisconsin Won.
Where is a Walker clone for California?


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