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Original post made
on May 10, 2011
How many millions will we be paying for chief Spiller's retirement? We are broke, and still he refuses to lead by example and take a 10% pay cut. Why?
Why do you keep insisting on a 10% cut? Based on? Your knowledge of the job? The job compared with other police departments in like cities? On Pleasanton's ability to attract and pay great people? Or on your need to attribute the current economic crisis to the people who serve your community.
Are you suggesting public servants should not have a retirement?
Pension liability is an issue that the STATE needs to deal with. Will Chief Spiller's 10% cut do anything but make you feel better? Drop in the bucket and NOT the problem.
Congratulations Chief Spiller.
10% would be a good place to start. The state is broke and we are taxed to death. The salary is too high, but don't just take my word for it.
It is time to lead by example. The department's arrogance is disgusting.
I'm disgusted too. I sell widgits out of a wearhouse in San Ramon and I think I desert a much higher salary than some arrogant (uppiddy) police chief. My capitalist market sales of widgits are far more important to our nation than uppiddy police chiefs or lazy PUblic school teachers. How many jobs has a lazy teacher created today? Their so arrogant and uppiddy they should be paying us. 10%? I say 25%, handsdown.
John, I think your argument is correct and your link is informative, but there is a time and place for everything. This thread isn't the time or place for those arguments, IMO. The pension issue isn't going away anytime soon so you will have plenty of opportunities to make your argument. For now, give the man his due.
What Arnold is attempting to say, John, is that your post is making all us Tea Party Revolutionaries look bad, and although you are correct, we'll join you at a place that doesn't make us appear to be tasteless zealots we are. Let's keep up sticking it to the teachers, and we'll go after the police when its more timely, like when the slackers ask for raises. Carry on the struggle for freedom, my brother!
Congrats to the new police chief. Our police and firefighters put their lives on the line for us everyday.
I think John makes some profoundly eloquent points. I never get into trouble, so why should I pay some ungodly salary to a cop whose probably never performed a sales job in his life? I think it is a pity that John gets hounded into the earth by Mr. Lugnut. Maybe John COULD do a better job. Who knows? Everybody has a matter of opinion.
[Post removed because it was disrespectful, crude, and inane.]
If I am not mistaken, Chief Spiller is making less than Chief Frasier did. Frasier was making $213,000 and Spiller is making $184,000, which is a 14% pay cut. So how about congratulating him on a huge achievement and thanking him for the pay cut and for putting his life on the line all these years?
I was willing to let this go but now people are attacking me personally and I can't let that stand. Sally, this is the same garbage we were hearing from the teachers. They twist the meaning of pay cut to suit their needs. That is no pay cut. We are taxed to death already and the spending has to stop.
"The pension issue isn't going away anytime soon so you will have plenty of opportunities to make your argument. For now, give the man his due.
LMAO! Your right, the pension "issue" isn't going away any time soon; that's for sure. Not as long as the government employees unions keep CA politican's in their back pockets. Yes, even the ever resilient Mr. Brown. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Give the Chief his $183K, its a drop in the bucket if he is a good man. But give Wisconson, NJ, Florida, Ohio THEIR DO, they are tackling unfunded government pensions. No one in CA has yet shown the political courage to do so.
"We are taxed to death already and the spending has to stop."
I know what you mean, John. I went to the doctor about high blood pressure yesterday and he told me it was probably because I'm being taxed to death. It gaul's me to know end to here that some cop is making more money then me. Uppitty and arrogant. That's what I call it.
Keep up the good fight fella. You're arguement are changing so many minds.
Editor is so cleaver ! This announcement posting was first back on May 3. But the minute there is anything 'difficult' the topic is removed away from the front page, and get moved to "Message Board" where the latest comments is on top, no matter the original topic date. I usually click on the top of this page, which is cumbersome to get to the most active threads....on Message Board, it's easier to see the 'conversation".
Anyway, I had ask why, since this is a bit younger Chief, there should not have been any resistance....WHY didn't our 'PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVE NEGOTIATOR' make the change inserting a MINIMUM requirement i.e. 5 years, with the Chief 'title', in order to retire with 'Chief benefits'. The last 4 or 5 Chiefs have zoomed right thru the rapidly revolving door, in their brief turn at Chief, on their way to chief retirement benefits. SO ???? Just WHEN will this council implement a reasonable time served requirement, going up and quickly OUT , with retirement years left greater than the year served.
I realize I'm a bit off topic here. But would someone be good enough to kindly tell me why so many anti-government types on these forums are such atrocious spellers? Is there some magical connection between poor spelling and hatred of the state and public education. Sometimes I think some of these posts should be retitled: Revenge of the High School Drop-Outs. And is there something about Pleasanton, the water supply or something, that enhances this condition? I apologize. But when a sentence begins with "Editor is so cleaver...", all I can do is wonder about how so many posters in a high-income city like Pleasanton can be so ill-educated. Whatever successes they might have garnered earlier in life I'm certain must be less available to them today in our current world.
Maybe they're typing to reflect their hick accent?! I grew up in WVa and had quite the twang...reading their posts kind of reminds me of home, content and all!
My take is that the whole right-wing teabagger shindig amounts to an ideology of victimhood. This whole crowd of poor, overtaxed, hard-working, beset upon by the state, unable to find decent employment, is so eager to blame SOMEBODY for their own failings. The schools are especially good targets, because so many of the posters here are aware that they haven't the skills to cope effectively in 2011, and blame the teachers - their own past teachers and present-day teachers for their own glaring deficiencies.
Somebody like a Spiller comes along, and he becomes just another lightening rod for right-wing, trailer park angst and anger. The irony in all this is that the 'entitlement' groups they blame for placing a burden on the system aren't doing nearly the damage that this crowd of victims is doing. (See, for example, defeat of Measure E.) They are barely literate, and highly susceptible to a few propagandists who are incompletely educated: they have found an ideology -- it's the state, it's the state, it's the state, no more taxes, no more, no more -- that explains virtually everything under the sun. Anything that doesn't fit the ideological mold is labelled socialist, or liberal, and dismissed out of hand.
What makes all this particularly pathetic is that the moaners and groaners who want to tear down all that is good and necessary about the liberal welfare state were born white and hence relatively privileged. Yet, for many different reasons, they missed the boat. They can't spell, their grammar is awful, their reasoning infantile (watch the he's-calling-me-names victims cry out over this descriptor). Pleasanton schools are doing for the kids of Pleasanton what wasn't done for the victims. They resent it. Theirs is a politics of resentment, and it threatens to bring us all down. Indeed, notice their frequent yearnings for things to fail, just as they've failed in their own miserable lives. They now have a voice, just like one given to them by John Birchers and KKKers of the past; and their ambition is to inflict pain upon a system which they perceive has rendered them damaged goods.
To: Victims All?
Wow! You offer quite a "take." Thank you.
Diversion without humor, dummies. I was MOCKING the Editor for being so chicken in pulling, then resubmitting this thread.
You're using your usual union thug tactic...talk about spelling, or anything, to DIVERT, so YOU CAN AVOID adressing the issue in the comment ! ! That won't work. SO...back to the topic you dodged....requiring reasonable minimum time periods in a position like Chief. The revolving door has been spinning way too fast.
Back to playing your games, boys.
"The schools are especially good targets, because so many of the posters here are aware that they haven't the skills to cope effectively in 2011, and blame the teachers - their own past teachers and present-day teachers for their own glaring deficiencies"
Yes, CA teachers and teachers in general are doing such a great job. Here in CA, where we rank among the bottom in US education although we pay more per student than any other state. Yet our high school graduation rate is just over 70%...great job CA educators! But we are sure better than Detroit where 50% of the population is illiterate...nice work MI teachers. You know who the educators are failing? The poorest and people of color, the very ones that the libs claim to be protecting. Here in Pleasanton we are immune from the real problems in education; us "trailer" folks make sure our kids are properly educated and then head of to the university for educations that will insure their future success. But the poor teachers are failing most kids, the ones we don't see and think about and that is pure and simple. Would these Pleasanton teachers give up their cushy jobs to teach in Oakland or Hayward? Hell no. They just want to complain how bad they have it here with us Pleasnton "red necks" refusing to give them another handout. We spend the most per student...yet we are sinking globally like a stone...great job teachers!
More money, more money and more money...what more do they want...blood? I have never in my life heard a bigger bunch of cry babies and malcontents. The truth is, most of them would fail in the pressures and demands of the private job market. So keep you cushy jobs, you liberals / socialists go ahead and demean all that are just simply tired of paying their freight and really getting very little in return. Hey you teachers, enjoy your next 3 months off this summer...I won't have time to take a vacation.
Thank you for your opinion. I have considered it, but I think not bringing this up at every opportunity only empowers these people (government workers).
How can I give this man his due when he is taking that much money in a high income town with virtually no crime? Compare what Pleasanton police make to a typical private security guard and see what I mean. Pleasanton has got to be one of the easiest towns to be a police in California. Sorry, this guy needs to get serious about pay cuts and 401k instead of pension like the rest of us in the private sector has.
"Hey you teachers, enjoy your next 3 months off this summer...I won't have time to take a vacation."
Hey "Yeah", maybe instead of spewing your venom at teachers and police chiefs, you and the rest of your fellow burger-flipping workers should try organizing your workplace.
I agree with "I wonder" and "Victims all?" What is truly amazing is that any of these victimized whiners can actually claim to have a job. I pity their employers, if they have any. I bet their employers must often think they're running a charity to keep these poorly educated malcontents from begging on highway exit ramps.
Proud of what I do and proud that I can do it in a place that is safe for me and the children I teach.
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life.
One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education. He
argued, "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
To stress his point he said to another guest; "You're a teacher, Bonnie. Be honest. What do you make?"
Bonnie, who had a reputation for honesty and frankness replied, "You
want to know what I make?" (She paused for a second, then began...)
"Well, I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
"I make kids sit through 40 minutes of class time when their parents
can't make them sit for 5 without an I Pod, Game Cube or movie rental.
"You want to know what I make?" (She paused again and looked at each and every person at the table)
"I make kids wonder.
"I make them question.
"I make them apologize and mean it.
"I make them have respect and take responsibility for their actions.
"I teach them to write and then I make them write. Keyboarding isn't
"I make them read, read, read.
"I make them show all their work in math. They use their God given
brain, not the man-made calculator.
"I make my students from other countries learn everything they need to know about English while preserving their unique cultural identity.
"I make my classroom a place where all my students feel safe.
"Finally, I make them understand that if they use the gifts they were
given, work hard, and follow their hearts, they can succeed in life."
(Bonnie paused one last time and then continued.)
"Then, when people try to judge me by what I make, with me knowing money isn't everything, I can hold my head up high and pay no attention because they are ignorant. You want to know what I make? I MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
"What do you make Mr. CEO?"
His jaw dropped, he went silent.
Teaching is... the profession that makes all other professions possible!
Proud of waht I do....
Go ahead and pat yourself on your back. Your sprouting nothing but elitism and can't admit how incompetant you are.
I'll vote my money for the CEO any day of the week. His profits come from making things that people need.
Isn't it time to wake up your students from nappy time?
In case it hasn't occurred to anyone yet, I think all the yokel-based noise over the Spiller appointment is part of the yokel-reaction-to-Obama phenomenon which [insert sarcasm here]makes us all so proud to be Americans.
Back to the question I originally ask in the Editors MAY THIRD thread that's been moved to Message Board,,, WHEN is the council going to put time served requirements in a pay grade, to be eligible for benefits that pay grade????
Here come more union comments from the 'idle in the firehouse' brotherhood.
There is a time served component. The factor is based on age, number of years served and salary at the time of retirement.
Duh, I KNOW those basics. Read a bit slower. I'm talking about the speed at which our last 3-4 chiefs have raced thru their time AS Chief...up and out, next one up and out in a flash, next one up and out in a flash. To retire at Chief level lifetime retirement PAY, there should be a reasonable minimum requirement to serve AS Chief.
Not EVERYbody in the Dept is 'entitled' to 'pass thru' AS CHIEF ! ! ! WE the employer & taxpaying public, are paying MANY, MANY MORE OVERLAPING,SIMULTANEOUS retirements at CHIEF LEVEL, than is reasonable. I know the 30 yr & 50th BD. I'm talking about the top dollar Chiefs, and the sheer NUMBER of chiefs TODAY WE, THE PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR at this time.= ! !
My suggestion to all public employees: Collect your pension at 65. That's it. Just like the military reserves....pension checks don't start until you're 65. If you want to stop working at 50 or 55, that's OK, just don't expect to get your pension until you're 65. In the meantime, you can fight for another job and experience the fear and uncertainty that the rest of us feel....ALL THE TIME...with the knowledge that there will never be a pension coming...EVER.
If it's good enough for military reservists who have fought several deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, then it should be good enough for you.
The American public cannot afford current pension liabilities while they are scraping by to fund their own measly 401K accounts.
I think that there will soon be a furious groundswell of laid-off public employees who will have a measure of animosity toward their few, more senior colleagues who have managed to retain their jobs with exorbitant pensions. And they will be accompanied by the general public. It will be interesting...and will merit more than a few paragraphs in our grandchildrens' history books.
Not so sure - You raise a potential interesting/dangerous topic in your last paragraph. If you investigate the origins of fascist movements, many of them originated from this dynamic.
@no apple vs oranges:
I have no idea where you are getting your information about the last 3-4 chiefs leaving after a few years. If you actually look up the facts before you start spewing them in this forum you would see that Spiller is the 6th chief ever in the department. The last chief worked for 4 years as chief, before that the chief was there for 8 years, before that the chief was there for at least 15 years.
And if you look closely, another post says Spiller is only 43 years old so he will be working for at least 7 years before he is even eligible to retire.
@Jon, why do you think there is virtually no crime in a high income city like Pleasanton? Because the police do a good job. I have no doubt that the crooks from Oakland, Hayward, and Stockton all know that Pleasanton is filled with rich, arrogant people who don't lock their front doors. If I were a crook, I would come here and steal from the rich. The fact that Pleasanton doesn't have that much crime is a testiment to the good work that the police department does.
Frank, R U talking about police OR fire chiefs ?...better check it out
I was talking about police chiefs since this article is about the police.
Wow, John, you are really showing your abundant ignorance on the subject. How many millions will we pay this Chief, or any Chief, in retirement? Zero. Nothing. Get it yet? Zilch. Once a CalPERS member retires, the CalPERS system covers the entire retirement salary of the retiree. The City pays zero salary to retirees. Instead of imposing your incredible stupidity on the rest of us, do some research, and confirm what I'm saying. I'm sure you will continue to spill mindless gossip on these pages, but you should at least shift it to something that is not so easily refutable, because it clearly shows you are nothing more than an uninformed, whining, pot-stirrer. Or here's another option - get a job with a pension instead of crying about those who one.
Not so sure - my suggestion to you: get a job with a pension if life is so easy and sweet on the other side. Just because you cannot adequately fund your "measly" 401k, don't suggest that you are being drowned in extra taxes to fund public pensions. The fact is that you are paying less in taxes than you did several years ago, because assessed property values and property taxes have fallen. The economic climate has changed and reasonable adjustments are being made. Just because you failed to plan for this economic situation, don't hate those who did.
In a perfect pension world I would agree with your statement. By that I mean if CalPERS were to return the 7.75% each and every year, and the employer (city) weren't increasing payroll costs by more than CalPERS had built into their model (3.25% of payroll), and if the longevity of retirees weren't understated by CalPERS for years, and if pension enhancements hadn't been included in new contracts, I would agree with you. CalPERS itself has said that only 28% of the unfunded liability can be attributed to the great recession. The rest can be attributed to the things I've just mentioned as well as CalPERS missing their assumed rate of return in several prior years. As of June 30, 2009, The POA pension plan was only 60.2% funded. The money to pay the last Chiefs retirement, the amount paid by the city for and on behalf of the employee, is insufficient to cover the costs of his pension. The same thing can be said about the new chief, and that's why the city's costs are going up.
In 2009, the city paid 28% of payroll toward police pensions plus the additional 9% that they paid on the employee's behalf, for a total of 37% of salary. Beginning July 1, the cost increases to 33.4% +9% for a total (understated - but I won't get into that) cost 42.4% of payroll.
The actual cost of the 3@50 plan (in a perfect pension world), according to CalPERS, is reflected in what they call the "normal cost". That number is 17% of payroll from the city and 9% from the employees. In Pleasanton's case, because they also pay the employee portion, that would mean the cost is 26% of payroll (17% + 9%). The difference between the 42.4% and the 26% is 16.4% of payroll. That represents the current "smoothed" cost that is being paid to cover the unfunded liability of the pension plan.
My point is, while CalPERS issues the check the taxpayers are still paying for pension contributions for workers that are already retired and current workers as well. The 16.4% means we are paying over 16K per year for every 100k of payroll, for work that has already been performed and services that already been consumed. Just because CalPERS issues the check doesn't mean we aren't still paying. We are!
Dennis - What a crock. First, my property tax has gone up 25% these past 4-5 years due to all the special assessment. Second, Brown is still trying to raise our taxes. Third, our taxes are going up to cover the ridiculous healthcare bill. And if Obama is successful, taxes will go up even more. Not to mention all the additional taxes in the form of increased fees/tuitions/etc.
Much of this is happening to cover the ballooning retirement/medical bills of public employees. So now not only do we need to recover from the recession (no we don't have guaranteed pensions like you do) but we have to contend with increased taxes/reduced services to pay for yours.
Your attitude is incredibly insulting and is one of the reasons why public employees are held in lower regard these days.
Police Chief Frazier should have been fired without pay and charged
for illegally spying on residents. Spiller will be no different.
He will bend the law, break and molest it, until he too is shown
the door. Former Police Chief Mike Frazier has put a Black-Eye
on Law enforcement in the same way that the Oakland Riders, Yohannes M., Norman W. and Louis L. have.
Why not tell the truth for a change? That the Pleasanton Police Department has had an illegal so-called GPS Tracking Operation going on for some time. Mr. Frazier boasted a drop in crime the year before
like it was his handy work. There's Cameras posted everywhere in Pleasanton, but I read an article about Solar panel's being stolen off of a school almost right across the street from the Pleasanton Police dept. What a joke. Then there was the time I was at the Alameda County Fairgrounds (The GoodGuys Car Show) and I saw a Pleasanton Police Officer placing what looked like a BLACK-BOX under a car being driven by a Man, his Wife and infant Child. The point is there 'is' no real crime in Pleasanton. It's Police Dept. runs rampant with civil rights and Const. violations. They wire up illegal spy equiptment on residents cars,trucks, and vans which are used to evesdrop illegally
on residents. This is due to lack of City Council/Mayor Leadership.
When Jennifer Hosterman found out about the corruption in her dept. she should have put a citizen's police review board together. When the Council and Mayor found out the Horse-shit that there Police were up too,
they should have contacted the people asserting the acusation's and
gotton to the bottom of it. But they didn't. They just told Mr. Frazier, Thanks for putting Pleasanton on the Map as the "Illegal Spying network" Capitol of these United States. Then hired from within
it's ranks to keep the Horse-shit quiet; and in-house. And to keep
from going to prison,
(YES, Officers of the Pleasanton Police Department)they involved themselves
with EXTORION, BLACKMALE, CRIMINAL THREATS and ILLEGAL SPYING EQUIPMENT. Because you didn't ask the hard question's, implement real change in your Police Dept. and fire that LOSER MR. FRAZIER, you now have to answer to all that undeserving money your shoveling into his pocket. And John Lowell, the City Attorney of Pleasanton knows all about a police cover-up. San Louis Obis- need I say more? What B.S.
I thought helping to bankraupt the City of VALLEJO, CA some years back
was enough to disqualify him from EEEVER touching Pleasanton Money!
And then there's all that other stuff that's Mayor and Council related. Don't think for one minute that people don't know your Bullshit... 'cause lemme tell you. People TALK. And then they WROTE.
Be careful with your Career's when you choose to stand next to Biggotry and Racism. Even if it does have a Shiny Badge attached to it. Because you yourself may be called a Racist-Biggot for DOING
ABSOLUTEY NOTHING. Food for thought elected-Officials.
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