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What are they hiding in the Health Care proposal?

Original post made by Ken in South Pleasanton, Downtown, on Oct 12, 2009

I'm appalled that our Senators and Representatives in Washington feel the need to keep the content of the health care reform proposal secret until after they have voted on it. This is the type of bullying leadership I would expect in a socialist, communist, or dictatorial country...NOT IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Regardless of whether you support or oppose the health care reform, you should not allow our elected representatives to hide the details of legislation that will impact generations upon generations to come. If they are afraid of how the public will react to the content of the bill, then you have to assume that there is something critically flawed in the proposal...something they don't want us to discover until after they have voted it into law. Write your representative and as many Senators as you have time to write and express your concern over the unprecedented secrecy and underhanded politics that is going on in Washington. You can get a one-button click to any congressional office by following this link:
Web Link

Comments (28)

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Posted by Michael
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 12, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Ken,

I looked at that list and almost vomited when I realized we have elected those people to represent us as well as the "liar in Chief" Barack "insane" Obambi. I will vote alright in the next election against any incumbant.


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Posted by !
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 5:17 pm

As Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn) states, the Obama Administration is a "gangster government" and gangsters don't care much about rules, protocol or the U.S. Constitution.

The "Change" Obama was referring to was disregarding and eventually changing our Constitution, among many other things which has made this country great in the past. Unfortunately, with the help of people like Pelosi, Reid, and yes McNerney, Obama is succeeding in the above.


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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:14 pm

Who is "they"?


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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:28 pm

poor michelle bachmann, poor poor michelle, queen of the trolls...

what are her thoughts about illegals that she can't control...tee hee hee, tee hee hee...


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Posted by Stay Cool
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:32 pm

Quoting Michelle Bachman? That's so perfect, I feel like it's my birthday.


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Posted by Janna
a resident of Dublin
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Stay Cool,

I laughed out loud at that! I was thinking the same thing. If someone's quoting her, we know what that means. (insert Twilight Zone music here)

I wonder if ! also believes in the "trips to sex clinics" Michelle's been spouting about in her latest paranoid delusions.

BTW, "Happy Birthday!"


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Michael
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:09 pm

tick tock tick tock tick tock........... time is running out


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:20 pm

wingnuts,
With all due respect, to claim that the congress is negotiating the healthcare plan in secret is perhaps the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. You say, "you should not allow our elected representatives to hide the details of legislation that will impact generations upon generations to come. If they are afraid of how the public will react to the content of the bill, then you have to assume that there is something critically flawed in the proposal"
Um, where were you throughout the month of August...locked up in your bunker waiting for the end times? Did you not see the hundreds of town halls that took place across the country where congressmen and women presented and defended the details of the healthcare reform packages winding their way through congress? Have you not paid any attention to the fact that 5 congressional committees have had extensive hearings and have marked up bills that will be voted on in congress? Have you not paid any attention to the Baucus bill markup currently going on in the Senate Finance Committee, all open sessions, all aired on C-SPAN, all covered extensively in the press. If you haven't taken the time to pull your head out of the World Net Daily's extensive coverage of Obama the anti-christ, then it's your own fault for not taking the time to educate yourself.

As for this supposedly being a secret plan, I can only assume you're talking about the faux controversy that the plans working their way through congress will be translated into the arcane and precise language used in all legislation and this is supposedly a sign that it's a secret bill that no one will be allowed to read. You have every right to sit down and read this piece of legislation when it comes out...over 3000 pages of arcane legal-speak...be my guest. This happens with every single piece of legislation that goes through congress. Hardly an unprecedented unconstitutional act. All you've proven is that you have no clue how our government actually functions...

So here's how it all works in reality. Tomorrow the Senate Finance Committee is scheduled to vote on their bill and send it to the senate where it will be merged with the version the senate HELP committee released several months ago (and has been available to all to read). Then sometime in the next few weeks the senate will debate the bill, vote to end debate (cloture) which requires 60 votes, and assuming that happens, the senate will vote on the bill's passage. Meanwhile in the House of Representatives, they are scheduled to vote on their version of the bill that'll be merged from the versions the 3 committees have released. Assuming both chambers pass their version of the bill, it will go to a conference committee where the two versions of the bill (senate and congress) will be merged into one version and the two chambers will once again vote on this final version. Assuming the bill gets this far, it'll go to Obama for his signature or veto. That's the legislative process. To claim this can be done in secret is just plain stupid.

PS. I hope you enjoyed the quick tutorial in the legislative process, since you apparently have no clue what it is.

PPS. Quoting Michelle Bachman is not the best way to make your point. Exactly how is Obama "changing the constitution"? Another reality check, any change to the constitution requires the following:

An amendment may be ratified in three ways:

* The new amendment may be approved by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, then sent to the states for approval.
* Two-thirds of the state legislatures may apply to Congress for a constitutional convention to consider amendments, which are then sent to the states for approval.
* Congress may require ratification by special convention. The convention method has been used only once, to approve the 21st Amendment (repealing prohibition, 1933).

Regardless of the method of proposing an amendment, final ratification requires approval by three-fourths of the states.

Please explain to me what exactly Obama is changing about the constitution and how is he able to do all this with the requirements listed above? Or is it another Beck-inspired paranoid rant with no basis in fact?


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:24 pm

One more thing, I forgot to provide a link to a website by the Kaiser Family Foundation that provides an application for listing side-by-side all the details of all the proposals making their way through congress. If you really feel like this is being done in secret, take some time to educate yourselves...

Web Link

Enjoy.


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Posted by !
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:24 pm

Dear Stay Cool and Janna,

Keep on posting away because you do what good liberals do best. You focus on character assassination because you cannot succeed in debating the content.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stay Cool
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:37 pm

!,
I can debate the content perfectly well. I'm just all sorts of hung up on the Michelle Bachmann quote this time. I'm not into character assasination - in fact, having been at the receiving end of a number of insults from you, your accusation is quite a bit out of line.


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Posted by Love Palin
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:29 pm

Bachman may be crazy, but she is at least consistent.

Web Link

" Bailout advocates used fear of total financial collapse to urge immediate action. Some of them even made bold assertions that injecting taxpayers' dollars into failing financial institutions could result in profits for the American people.

Not all of us bought what they were selling. I voted against the bailout. "

She fails to mention that the "bailout advocates" were Dick Cheney, George Bush, and even Sarah Palin.

Maybe a presidential run is in the works?

I can't find any opinion pieces on entitlement spending, only the typical earmarks and stuff.

Hey exclamation point person, do have any links to what Bachmann wants to do about Social Security and Medicare?


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Posted by mark
a resident of another community
on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:44 am

poster boy,

What happened with the "Patriot Act"? The excuse that Congress has used is, "They didn't even have time to read it". The same excuse was used for the stimulus bills. What is up with that? It was Obama that tried to push his Heathcare Bill through Congress in July, before "we the people" had a chance to see it. How does this represent "we the people" in any way, shape or form? The fact is, it doesn't. The Banksters have paid for and got the best Congress and acting president that money could buy. Face it, 99% of Washington are traitors and should get the punnishment set forth by law.

What is in it for you poster boy? Your worship of Obama surely comes with a price. How much did it take for you to turn on America? Do you have any regrets, or was it easy to do? Are you an American at all, or do you have dual citizenship like most of the presidential cabinet members and other presidential appointed officials of all the administrations since Carter? You know, as in the very long list of officials in Washington that run the country and hold Israeli/American Dual Citizenship. Did you do the same for Bush and Clinton and Bush and Reagan and so on and on and on........?


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Posted by Minnesota Native
a resident of Avila
on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:07 am

Michele Bachmann is a disgrace to the USA, MN, and the 6th. If you're interested in getting rid of Bachmann, support democratic candidate Dr. Maureen Reed! You can learn more about Maureen, and donate, at:
Web Link
and
Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Paul
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:37 am

Michele Bachmann is a real defender of freedom and is an advocate for "change" back toward American ideals of smaller government, strong national defense, free enterprise, freedom (all of which are against Democrat ideals).

Michele is a tax attorney by profession and here is her site. If you care about turning Obama's disastrous policies and are concerned about the direction of our country, please consider contributing to her campaign thru the link on the following site.

Web Link




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Posted by Michael
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Statements below made by Obama/liberals which are untrue and the facts listed below.




What Are Liberals' Broken Promises on Health Care Reform?

1) There will be transparency in the law-making process. For the past month, the Senate Finance Committee has been debating health care. But, much to the surprise of many Americans, they haven't been debating an actual bill. They have been debating and amending a 262-page description of health care reform. It's essentially a summary of what liberals want the bill to look like, and no member of the Committee, or the public, has seen actual legislation. The legislation will likely not be available until the bill is debated on the floor.

2) The bill won't add a dime to the deficit. Since the Senate bill is yet to be written, there are no official cost estimates. However, initial estimates of a description of the bill (which is what the Finance Committee has been debating) by the Congressional Budget Office indicate the gross cost will be $829 billion. Independent analysis by The Lewin Group, a highly respected health care policy and management consulting firm, expects the House bill to run a $39 billion deficit in the first decade, and a $1 trillion deficit in the second decade.

3) If you like the coverage you have you can keep it. Liberals in Congress continue to demand the inclusion of a public plan, a new government run health plan to "compete" against private health insurance plans. The Lewin Group calculated the impact the House bill's public plan would have on existing health insurance coverage. It found with a public plan:

56 percent of Americans with employer-based coverage would lose their current coverage with the addition of a public plan.
Of the estimated 172.5 million people with private health insurance, there would be a decline of 83.4 million people with private coverage.
34 percent of the uninsured in America would still lack coverage.
4) The bill won't cut benefits for seniors. It is impossible to cut payments to Medicare Advantage plans without cutting benefits. The Congressional Budget Office director testified that Medicare benefits will be cut, meaning seniors' private options for their health care needs are at risk.






5) The bill won't raise taxes on those earning less than $250,000. Provisions in the House and Senate bill would lead to a tax increase regardless of income. In fact, of the folks hit by the House's plans steep tax hikes, more than half fall in the bottom 60 percent of the income scale. Small businesses and low-income workers would be especially hit. In the Senate Finance Committee, amendments were offered that would have protected those below $250,000, and each one failed.

6) It will save American families $2500 a year. There has been no analysis to show that these bills would deliver these promised savings. In fact, mandates in the current bills would have the opposite effect, forcing many individuals to pay more money out-of-pocket, and compelling businesses to reduce wages, salaries, and job opportunities.

7) The government plan won't cover abortions or illegal immigrants. Amendments were offered in the House and Senate Committee mark-ups to clarify that abortion services would not be included and to ensure proper identification of citizenship were used in determining eligibility. Each of these amendments failed.


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Posted by Stay Cool
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:48 pm

You forgot to mention that this was cut and paste from the Heritage Foundation website.


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Posted by Michael
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 13, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Anything untrue in the Heritage piece there killa?



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stay Cool
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Killa? That's kind of cute. :)
Anyway, I'm responding to your same question in the thread re: "Sobering PWC Report..."


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Posted by a reader
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:34 pm

"56 percent of Americans with employer-based coverage would lose their current coverage with the addition of a public plan.
Of the estimated 172.5 million people with private health insurance, there would be a decline of 83.4 million people with private coverage.
34 percent of the uninsured in America would still lack coverage"

There is no way to predict that, and Heritage has a lousy track record with predictions. Remember, these were the people who were telling us we didn't need to regulate the financial services industry, that all these credit default swaps and structured investment vehicles were creating wealth. They said we needed more deregulation and even said such things as the failure of a large investment bank would be extremely unlikely. We all see how that worked out.


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Posted by mark
a resident of another community
on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:32 pm

Yea, and look at the tract record of our government, so far they have failed at everything they put their hands on, so we might as well let them fail us on our health care. Not to say that they haven't already. And get this, why would the government address the real problem with our healthcare, since they get credit for its demise.It was the governments deregulations of the health insurance industry that allowed insurance to rape all of us while their proffits broke record after record after record. Why would the government do the right thing and go after the proffits that were and still are being stolen from Americans daily. After all the money that the lobbiest uses to buy Congress has to come from somewhere other than them, enter the Sheople, to stupid to figure out where all the money is going. Government and the media do not talk about this, therefor it must not exist. Just ask the government, they are here to help, the sheople dont have to think for themselves, so they don't. BIG BROTHER WILL TAKE CARE OF IT ALL.

Its real hard to figure out. The price of health care just keeps on going up and there is no end in sight. Gee, I wonder why that is. Could it be that the insurance proffits have risen they same amount as the insurance coverage rates have gone up. What a coincedence, and to top that off, less and less is covered by insurance. Something is seriously wrong with this picture. This includes the fact that the government knowingly conceals this fact from us. This also means that all of their healthcare laws are totally fraudulent and and the true motive behind their "rescue" is to give BIG BROTHER control over our health, or lack of it.

ALL you have to do is research the proffits since about the year 2000. The insurance industry is being monopolized by a select few, and instead of them kicking down the savings that they get, to us, and mandated by law, they just jack up the cost, and the government is in on it. Its not very difficult. Why are the sheople so blind? The answer to that covers a lot of ground, but one reason is the media, also monopolized, and another is because of whoever it is(stay cool, poster boy and others, perhaps Stacie) that post fraudulent threads on forums like this one. They are all traitors and nothing less. Traitors that knowingly lie about and conceal the facts.


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:35 pm

mark,
seriously dude, take off the tinfoil hat and climb out of the bunker and take a look around from time to time. Get some fresh air...live a little...

I've been posting here about healthcare reform for several weeks, making it a point to cite references to all my claims about reform, provide links to more detailed information for those who care to read it, and have taken time on my own to get as much viable information as possible. And after all that, I'm called a liar and a traitor for sharing this information. I'd be insulted if it weren't coming from you, but instead I'll claim it as a badge of honor. A man who consistently posts paranoid rants about the Rothschilds being behind the war of 1812 and every presidential assassination in the books...a man who seems to believe that the majority of obama's cabinet claims dual citizenship with israel(?!?!)...a man who can't make up his mind whether government is to blame because they didn't regulate the healthcare industry and therefore shouldn't be trusted to regulate it now...a man who can't seem to decide whether it's the black helicopters that are after us or the red money that will bring us down.

When you start citing more than boring youtube videos and links to borderline anti-semitic rants, then come forward with some information where I'm either lying or acting as a traitor. In the meantime, I'll keep reading your paranoid rants as the pure entertainment that they are...


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:38 pm

Mark,
One more thing...
RE: "Yea, and look at the tract record of our government, so far they have failed at everything they put their hands on, so we might as well let them fail us on our health care. "

Here's a short list of some of the successes of government-run programs, since you seem to think they fail at everything.

Web Link


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Posted by mark
a resident of another community
on Oct 14, 2009 at 12:36 am

hey there pppppboy you are full of ship , absolutely. You are a lie, boy. All you post is rhetoric and lies. You are a moron.Try and dispute the facts above about the deregulation and the proffits made/stolen by the insurance. That my boy is the reason health care cost as much as it does. That and BIG PHARMA also have their hand in our pockets. (When I say our,I do not include you, as you are excluded from everything that includes me. And that still gives you more credability than you deserve, punk) I researched this when you were still in diapers. I present facts, you present lies.You better back off punk. UNDERSTAND

TIMED BOMB


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:56 am

Mark,
RE: "you are excluded from everything that includes me"

That is indeed a relief. Although I did enjoy the veiled threat at the end. Nice.


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Posted by a reader
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:18 am

mark,

Please make up your mind. Do you want the federal government to regulate private health insurance? That would be a big government solution. Or do you want deregulation of private health insurance? That would be a smaller government solution.

Are you for big government?


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Posted by Ken in South Pleasanton
a resident of Downtown
on Oct 14, 2009 at 12:15 pm

Poster boy,
Have you been able to download a copy of the most recently proposed legislation from the Senate Finance Committee? If so, send me a link. While that information was available for us to read in August, they intentionally blocked publication of what they were doing prior to this recent vote. We had to shame it out of them in August, but now, they know no shame and hide details from us. If it can't be shared with us, and it isn't good enough for them to require that they take this coverage, then it must be one bad stink they are hiding behind those hallowed doors in Washington.


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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm

Ken,
You asked and you shall receive.
Here's the link to the Senate Finance Committee's bill that was passed yesterday:
Web Link

Here's the link to the Senate HELP committee's bill they voted out in July:
Web Link

Here's the link to the house version of the bill that will be voted on in the next few weeks:
Web Link

It took me about 5 minutes of google searches to get this.

As for other lies, check out this link about 26 lies being spread about the house healthcare bill:
Web Link

As for some talk about the antics in august "shaming" congress into releasing this information, the house bill has been available since July and the senate HELP committee's version was released in July too. The Senate Finance Committee hadn't finished their version of the bill until september, so not sure how you can claim the august teabaggers shamed them into releasing a bill they hadn't finished writing yet, but whatever...


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