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Teachers - are you frustrated?

Original post made by Inquiring Teacher, another community, on Oct 4, 2009



I would be interested in hearing back from teachers at the college level (community college, university) what they think of general observations of entitlement they see amongst students.

It seems to be that many students feel entitled to a good grade with only minimal effort. They don't realize that the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary. Furthermore, some students seem peeved when they are expected to stick to the rules that specify minimum standards for behavior, as in not copying the work of other students, arriving to class on time, turning in assignments on schedule, etc. When grades are adjusted downward to account for rules having been broken (ie late papers), they complain or act surprised at being held accountable for their actions. Some lash out and complain to administrators regarding a teacher's insistence that they stick by the rules (the rules of which were approved by said administrators).

In addition, there seems to be an undercurrent within the educational community that it is more important to make the students feel good about themselves than it is to make sure they learn the material. This is reflected in teacher evaluation forms (filled out by students) that focus more on how the student feels about the class (was the teacher sensitive to their needs?) rather than on whether or not they learned something in the course (ie "did the course teach you the skills you will need for your next course?")

Has anyone thought about these issues and figured out how to deal with the sense of entitlement and seeming inability to follow rules that many students seem to have issues with?







Comments (43)

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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 4, 2009 at 6:40 pm

You gotta be kidding...teachers get sooooooo trashed by ungrateful parents, why wound they want to get involved answering your post? Run for your lives teachers...

Let the teachers do their jobs, the students that are there to learn will learn, those that are goof-offs will eventually fail. That's life.

Ping!


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Posted by Anarchy
a resident of Downtown
on Oct 4, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Parents just have no interest in making their kids behave if they did it would be possible for the teachers to do their jobs. The remedy would be to just send the kids to the principles office and have the parents leave work to pick them up. If I were a parent that would happen exactly one time!!! and then my kid would behave,


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Posted by Pleasanton Parent
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Oct 4, 2009 at 7:53 pm

I think one of the biggest threats to our education system is lack of student discipline. Whether it be an inability to focus or lack of respect for teachers, I think changing this will net a much greater benefit than any amount of money.


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Posted by teacher
a resident of Golden Eagle
on Oct 4, 2009 at 8:15 pm

As a teacher in this district, I am SO glad to see that I am not the only one that is having this same problem with my students. It is absolutely ridiculous how entitled students feel these days. I believe that it mostly comes from the parents. I see so many parents giving their kids whatever they want, whenever they want, therefore the kid thinks the same thing should happen in the classroom. News flash: not in my classroom!!!


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Posted by Long Time Resident
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 4, 2009 at 11:34 pm

To "teacher", I fully understand your feelings. However, do you wake up in the morning harboring ill feelings towards to students when you go to class? I hope not. NOT all kids have the silver spoon borned in their mouths. I find it difficult to accept those teachers go to their jobs with a chip on their shoulder. I hope you don't have that grudge.


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Posted by Jerry
a resident of Oak Hill
on Oct 5, 2009 at 1:06 am

Inquiring Teacher,

I hope you have the support of your administrators when the students complain...

If it's any comfort, many of these students have this same attitude when they join the work force. I, and others I've spoken with, have first hand experience dealing with these employees...

Some time ago, I saw a TV program about this subject as it applied to employment in the public sector. Some companies are enrolling their management employees in classes where they learned how to "manage" these employees. It seems there is such a high demand for certain skills that employers are forced to pacify the "needs" of these individuals or they will move to companys that will...

Being from "the old school" where one was expected to "earn" what they receive, I don't think I would last very long in your occupation since I agree with "teacher"(from Golden Eagle) - "not in my classroom"...

Also, I didn't read anything in his/her post that would indicate any "harboring ill feelings toward the students when you go to class". Perhaps "frustration", but no "ill feelings"...


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Posted by Goes both ways
a resident of Birdland
on Oct 5, 2009 at 6:44 am

I believe that their are many kids ( and adults) out their that act this way.. it is unfortunately something that no one will be able to change. Teachers, you are role models and people of authority.. take your stand, if students think they are entitled then throw it back in their laps...make them work for it..tell them to get mommy and daddy involved, even better right? I also think that the whole school system is made to be so complicated..back in the day I remember you failed you repeat the grade, now a days I didn't realize that it is up to a perent to withre have their child repeat or not...of course no parent believes their child will need to repeat..kids need to feel the consequences not just be threatened by them we have already seen that thrreats dont work.


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Posted by Chris King
a resident of Dublin
on Oct 5, 2009 at 11:21 am

Teacher - a resident of the Golden Eagle neighborhood, you will be happy to know as a parent I take full responsability for my sons actions. He had better respect his teacher, and classmates.


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Posted by Pleasanton Parent
a resident of Pleasanton Meadows
on Oct 5, 2009 at 11:21 am

Goes both ways -

Really? Can I find you on craigslist? MFMW or WFMW?

Additionally, "entitlement" and "change" mentioned in the same response? Are you making a clever political comparison?

:rimshot:


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Posted by Concerned Parent
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 5, 2009 at 1:53 pm

To all the parents out there:

What do you expect when we (as parents) let our kids watch TV shows that clearly demonstrate rebellious and dis-respectful behavior. All of us (as parents) know which shows they are. We expose them when they are young and expect them to show respect to us or the teachers?

Let's all look ourselves in the mirror and be honest to ourselves. Furthermore, for teachers who assumes ALL kids are all alike, you need to change your attitude/assessment/outlook. There is NO place for a teacher (or a school administrator) who assumes all kids are 'bad'. Remember, we are all role models and act accordingly!


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Posted by Inquiring Teacher
a resident of another community
on Oct 5, 2009 at 2:38 pm


I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my feelings on the matter. While I don't like to categorize students, I do see them naturally falling into 4-5 categories:
(1) Students who are motivated to do well, are willing to work hard, show respect for the teachers and generally speaking have very good manners
(2) Students who are motivated like those in category (1) above, but who are overly aggressive and act as if they are the only ones in the class. No matter how much one reaches out to them in other ways (appointments after class or in office hours) they never seem satisfied. They seem to get frustrated that the teacher has to divide their attention equally amongst all the students.

(3) On the opposite end of the spectrum are students who show no interest in the class leaving the teachers to wonder why they are there in the first place. They don't study or respond to encouragement.

(4) Students who are polite and kind and say they want to do well, but seem to only go half-way when presented with a detailed plan for how to succeed. They try, but don't seem fully committed for whatever reason.

(5) Then there are students somewhere in the middle who put forth some effort (more than in case 4), but are unhappy about having to work and complain regularly about it.



I don't think that there are many teachers who assume all students are bad. If that's what they really thought I don't think they would go into that profession. The problem that I've seen is that 90% of the problems in the classroom come from 10% of the students. People who fall into category 2 above (and to a lesser extent #5) could easily take up all of a teacher's time when they only represent 10-20% of the class population.


I would probably say that at least 1/3 of the students I interact with have a very difficult time being held accountable for their actions. Most of these students would go up at least a half a grade level (ie B to B+ or A- to A) if they took all the time they spent complaining and spent it studying instead. My syllabus makes it clear what the expectations are but at least 1/3 of the class will break the rules regularly and get upset when they have to bear the consequences of their actions.

This same 1/3 of the class has no clear understanding of the proper way to deal with authority figures, i.e. teachers in this case. This group of students use rude language, talk back to teachers, and exhibit disrespectful behavior. I would have never dared to act that way when I was young because in my day teachers wouldn't put up with it. If a student yells or swears I tell them we can talk about the class or how to bring their grades up, but if they want to yell, complain or swear they have to leave the room. I tell them to come back when they are ready to talk about the course and how they can do better.

I know other teachers who will sit and listen to students swear and complain to them and will do nothing about it! I won't tolerate that kind of thing.


Another major problem I see are teacher evaluations that are based on students' perceptions of the teacher. Teachers who give easy tests are generally given positive reviews, while those who make students work and hold students accountable often receive a high percentage of bad marks, even when said teacher offers students a lot of help and extra chances to do well. Seems like a no-win situation for the teacher.







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Posted by momoftwo
a resident of Downtown
on Oct 5, 2009 at 4:02 pm

There is a newly released book entitled "Nurtureshock, new thinking about children" by Po Bronson. Chapter One appeared as a cover article in New York magazine, then expanded into the book. Chapter One is titled "The Inverse Power of Praise". Contrary to popular wisdom and the new parenting style, it clearly shows that constantly praising your child for how 'smart' and 'wonderful' they are is very detrimental to them. The information is backed up with scientific studies from the leading universities in the country. Limited legitimate praise and praise for their EFFORT, along with two very short lessons on how intelligence is not innate, that it can be developed...that the brain is a muscle that gets stronger with use; are all that children require to perform at their best both as students AND as adults. Very good reading on other aspects of child rearing as well - should be required reading for all parents and teachers! It will blow the lid off what you thought you KNEW for sure about kids, and how we can go about correcting some of the mistakes we've made.


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Posted by PToWN94566
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 5, 2009 at 4:52 pm

PToWN94566 is a registered user.

Inquiring Teacher, do you discipline or manage your class? There's a large difference between the two and the teachers I've worked with or observed that manage their rooms seem to have a more efficient learning environment. If students are disrespectful or not completing their work, document it. Perhaps a teacher evaluation done by the students periodically throughout the year would help in figuring out what needs adjusting.

As other people have stated, a sense of entitlement is a common trait today. Certain students may feel this way but they all deserve an equal opportunity when it comes to schooling. If the students know what is expected of them, know what the goals of a lesson are or goals of the entire class, then there should be nothing to worry.


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Posted by Inquiring Teacher
a resident of another community
on Oct 5, 2009 at 5:26 pm

To: PToWN94566,

You have some good points. Yes, in principle, if all students know what the expectations are as well as the goals for the day/week/semester etc. then theoretically there shouldn't be a problem. I agree that everyone should have an equal opportunity to learn. I've found though that some students aren't interested in putting forth the effort required to meet minimum standards. It like the proverbial horse that you can lead to water, but you can't make it drink.

I don't discipline per se. I generally also don't hit things head on, I try to ignore most of this unless the observed problem behavior interferes with the other students' classroom experience. How I handle things personally is writing progress reports or making comments on papers explaining that the score the student received is X% lower because of incident X on day Y. Then they can decide whether to alter their behavior or not in order to get a better grade on a future assignment. What I find problematic is that the students get upset about this even though they know what the rules are and then they complain to me and the administration. It goes back to the notion that some of them do not want to be held accountable....




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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 5, 2009 at 5:47 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

While I sympathize and agree with most of your statements, if the paper deserves a B and you give it a C because you didn't like someone's behavior, you're the one in the wrong. If you lay out the class requirements and expectations, like you seem to, then those are the valid criteria by which to judge a student's performance. I'm not surprised that the students are upset, you sound like you're sending mixed signals. They're supposed to meet X requirements for paper Y, but then you throw in extra requirements. How are students ever supposed to live up to that, unless, of course, you made behavior a requirement of the paper!


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Posted by Been there
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Oct 5, 2009 at 6:03 pm

Boy, don't we tend to put blinders on when we think of the good old days. Some kids always have and will always feel "entitled."
I remember sitting in large lecture halls in the 1970's watching carefully after handing in a scan-tron test to make sure the person at the end of the row did not discard or erase answers from his/her fellow student's tests before they were collected by the proctor. This happened so regularly that smart kids would jockey for the end seat before every exam.
High school? No, this took place at a very well respected university in the pre-med program.
I'm sure these kids DID NOT learn this behavior at home. Parent's aren't always to blame.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 5, 2009 at 6:06 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Did you happen to have a teacher who did this to you as a student?

Aren't behavior issues generally handled by group exclusion, detention, etc.?


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Posted by PToWN94566
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 5, 2009 at 10:53 pm

PToWN94566 is a registered user.

Been There I don't think the main point is blaming who taught what to school age kids. If a parent home schooled their children, then I tend to believe that it is up to them to teach proper behavior. Since most kids go to school, it's a relationship between the school, the teachers, the parents, and the students. Certain teachers may have their classroom management down to a T, but during passing periods the kids may become a little energetic- all the while teachers that may not know those students end up turning a blind eye.

Stacey, I've always been a firm believer that behavior issues should always be handled in seclusion. If a teacher is speaking with a student because of a problem, it should never be done in front of other students. I remember having a teacher at Walnut Grove ripping a multiplication test in half, announcing it to the whole class, because I forgot to put my name on it. It didn't seem like a big deal but I was extremely embarrassed and never did it again. Teachers like this need to realize that they can speak to a student but not with the whole class watching.

In some way, the sense of entitlement goes both ways, where certain teachers expect everything to happen at their beck and call (and I'm not speaking of anyone in particular on here- just to keep that clear).


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Posted by Inquiring Teacher
a resident of another community
on Oct 5, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Stacey:

I disagree with your comment that teachers are "in the wrong" when behavior becomes part of the grade on an assignment. If you were familiar with the way many college grading schemes work, this is very much the case. If a student cheats, they are given a zero. If a student hands in a report late, they receive X% deduction for every day late. If a student exhibits unsafe behavior in a laboratory course they lose points. These things are not only in the syllabus for many teachers but also department approved.


The types of behavioral issues that I'm referring to are cases where the rules are made clear to the students, everything is spelled out in the syllabus and supported by the department, yet they still get upset when they are held accountable and graded accordingly. That is the type of entitlement that makes many teachers frustrated because it's such a pervasive problem.


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Posted by Been there
a resident of Vineyard Avenue
on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:38 am


Again, this behavior was prevalent when I was a TA in the 70's. There were always students who would spend more time and energy trying to get a "fair" grade changed than they would studying for the test they bombed. I remember thinking then that society had produced a group of entitled "brats" who, when given the "power" (70's lingo) would wreck society as we knew it.

Oh wait, maybe they did??????????

Can't blame the parents and kids of today when their role models are stupendous cheaters, liars and thieves like AIG execs, Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, Governor Mark Sanford and Senator John Ensign.

Although history does not support it, and great courage of conviction would be required, perhaps it's time this country as a whole thinks less about me, me and more about you, you.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:44 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Inquiring Teacher:

1) I didn't say teachers are in the wrong. I said you're in the wrong.
2) My above supposition is based only upon what has been written. In no way did I suggest that behavior couldn't be part of the grading scheme or that it isn't. In fact, I mentioned it at the end of what I wrote above.

You wrote: "How I handle things personally is writing progress reports or making comments on papers explaining that the score the student received is X% lower because of incident X on day Y."

What wasn't written: The criteria assigned to the paper or the class.

Moreover, the examples you wrote, like giving zero on a test for cheating, all have one thing in common. They are all disciplinary action tied to the object of focus whereas giving X% lower because of incident X on day Y appears to be quite random and too late. Punishment has to absolutely be related to the object and should be timely, not days later.

Maybe this example will help illustrate: If you're riding a horse and the horse turns left when you told it to turn right, you don't wait a day later to tell the horse again that he was supposed to turn right. And even then, you need to make sure you've clearly set the expectation with the horse that you're going to want it to turn right before you even give the command otherwise you don't punish it. In most cases, the horse will turn right with just a gentle reminder then because it knows ahead of time what is wanted. Now that's an excellent horse rider!


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:54 am

Stacey is a registered user.

I'm uncertain as to if I'm really communicating what I'm trying to say on this subject well without the conversation devolving.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:09 am

Stacey is a registered user.

I had an awesome professor at university. He was considered a hard teacher, but I found his classes quite easy and enjoyable. Your grade was based upon a midterm paper, a term paper and class participation. You'd be amazed at how much difficulty others had with the class participation part. I saw him have to take a break and leave the classroom once because one group of students, who were doing a biographical assignment on Billie Holiday, had based most of their work on a bio-pic that was a complete fabrication and apparently couldn't compensate when it was pointed out to them because they just kept trying to deliver the same speech. He got really frustrated at their blank faces.

Another professor I had, an Indian art history professor, had so much trouble getting students to speak about the art in the slide. All he was asking was for students to report what they saw in the art, like a cup at the feet, etc. His class was also based much on participation.

The professors wanted class participation because that's the way they were able to understand a student's thought processes and see if they were learning deeper thinking.


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Posted by Teacher
a resident of Golden Eagle
on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:20 am

Long Time Resident writes:

"However, do you wake up in the morning harboring ill feelings towards to students when you go to class? I hope not. NOT all kids have the silver spoon borned in their mouths. I find it difficult to accept those teachers go to their jobs with a chip on their shoulder. I hope you don't have that grudge."

Harboring ill feelings? Holding a grudge? What am I, 6 years old?? Is that really what you think teachers do??????? I am a grown adult and take my job very seriously and am ALWAYS professional at work. Why would on earth would you accuse me of doing otherwise because I happened to point out the truth, that there are TONS of kids in my classes who do have a HUGE sense of entitlement? I am completely aware of the fact that not all students have a silver spoon in their mouth. I certainly was one of them.

I have met many parents who are completely wonderful and humble people but have a child who is completely the opposite. So, I don't blame all parents. However, I have met parents who do walk around like they are entitled to something for whatever reason, and their kid is exactly the same way.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:25 am

Stacey is a registered user.

But hey, the great thing about college-level is supposed to be that professors don't really have an obligation to every student. Students are there by choice (supposedly) and chose the classes they want to take, totally different from K-12 education.

I was a student who could have done better but didn't for the simple fact that I was uninterested. Teachers do have a lot to do with that. I dreaded having to take art history at university because of my past experience with a history class in high school. In high school it was just a bunch of "here memorize this event and this date". My first art history class was nothing like that. The teacher first encouraged the students to have an emotional bond to what was being viewed. That actually helps with memorization because human memory works well by forming associations. Now that I'm done with all that, I actually love history whereas I would have hated it if I had only experienced the high school history class.


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Posted by Long Time Resident
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:29 am

I apologize to the 'teacher' if I had insulted him. It wasn't meant to him. It's a general point because there are many teachers who have developed an anti-student attitude. A teacher with an open mind and fair is what we need in Pleasanton and elsewhere.

I do agree many parents are rude and expect their own child to be a 'straight A' student because they were from GATE. Unfortunately, GATE doesn't usually mean the child is smart in ALL subjects. Yes, the parents thinks their child is 'THE ONE'. Teachers needs to assess the student's performance based on the quality of the work not past history!


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Posted by A Teacher
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Courses don't teach students skills, but teachers can try. You can't force a student to pay attention and learn. As far as people trying to get away with minimal effort and not following rules, that is nothing new. Follow through with consequences and they'll learn something new from you. What's the problem?


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Posted by Helen
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Stacey, that is what Amador High is like right now. Just incredibly boring, no attempt to make things relevant and meaningful...it's an exercise in forced passivity for students.


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Posted by Inquiring Teacher
a resident of another community
on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Stacey,

I don't think you missed something in previous comments:

"Moreover, the examples you wrote, like giving zero on a test for cheating, all have one thing in common. They are all disciplinary action tied to the object of focus whereas giving X% lower because of incident X on day Y appears to be quite random and too late. Punishment has to absolutely be related to the object and should be timely, not days later."

This is not completely correct because if a student knows that the rules say that a report that is X days late receives a reduction of Y%, it's not random at all because it's specified in the syllabus. I think you are misinterpreting the meaning behind what is being said. When things are specified in the syllabus and the student chooses to break those rules, it is not random. Furthermore, papers are not graded instantaneously so a reduction in grade is seen when the report is handed in. There's nothing odd, improper or random about that.







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Posted by Teacher
a resident of Golden Eagle
on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:26 am

Helen,

How do you know Amador is boring? Are you a student there?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:30 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Inquiring Teacher,

Incident X on day Y where no values are given for X or Y is random. A reader can only assume that X or Y is anything.


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Posted by Inquiring Teacher
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:52 pm

Stacey:

This discussion forum is for teachers to discuss teh sense of entitlement they see in the classroom. Let's keep the discussion on track. If you saw the syllabus on my campus, you would understand this, but since you aren't you have only a very limited view with which you cannot make blanket statements. I will say for the record, that your analogies on horse training aren't completely correct. There is a very big different between a horse going left because it did not understand what was expected of it. Gentle reminders may work in those cases to help keep the horse on track. However, for those who have kept this discussion on track, they will realize (figuratively speaking) that there are certain horses who are completely different. One example would be Granat, the famous dressage horse ridden by Christine Stückelberger. He knew very well what was expected of him, yet at random times he would be very difficult and attempt to throw his rider when and wherever he pleased...

That's my last word on the matter and then I'll put you on "ignore".


If you would like to debate why you feel I'm in the wrong or why you disagree with me, then please start another thread elsewhere. We will be happy to appease your need to debate somewhere else but not here.


Now back on track...


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Posted by Rita
a resident of Downtown
on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Really does not matter much as soon we are going to be like Broward County, Florida. No money so now the parents must volunteer time during the school year to do janitorial services, pull weeds,m clean the classroom, perform maintenance activities, patrol the playgrounds, and if they pass a background test they can act as campus security. Teachers get sick? no problem as there is no money for subs so the district administrators and superintendents must teach during the day. Parents are also asked to donate such items as paper, pencils, soap, and toilet tissue.


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Posted by My college experience
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:47 pm

When I was in college, I had teachers who found ways to deal with students who were late to class. One teacher required that the seats closest to the door be the last ones taken so that students late to class didn't disrupt the class by walking past the teacher, and making their way down an aisle to find an available seat. Another teacher locked the door a few minutes after class began. He made it clear on the first day that his class started at 9 am and he expected his students to be in their seats, ready to begin class at 9. He only had a problem with tardiness the first few classes, and then never afterwards. Before anyone says that's mean, he wasn't. Once in awhile a student who was never late would come racing to the door, and he would open it, look at the student and say "we missed you," and let the student in. It was the students who would be consistently late that he wanted to make understand that their tardiness was discourteous and not acceptable.
Personally, I liked the way the teacher handled tardiness because it was very distracting to have the door opening and closing and students shuffling in 5, 10, 15 and even more minutes after class began. Not only were they late, but they wound up asking questions about material which had already been covered.
I completely agree that tardiness, cheating and not turning in work on time are valid reasons to lower a student's grade. That kind of behavior is well within any teacher's rights to specify.
But my college experience was a long time ago, and there wasn't the emphasis there seems to be today on whether the students likes a teacher or feels a connection to a teacher. Students weren't entitled to expect the rules didn't apply to them and I can't imagine any student back then going to mom or dad and asking them to complain to administration. We knew they wouldn't do that. Teachers were very clear that basic classroom rules and expectations were no different than what students could expect when they joined the working world.
Some of the classes where I learned the most were taught by teachers I didn't especially like or dislike, but I wasn't looking for a friend, I was looking for an education.
You get my support.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Hey! Thanks for the ignore! It wasn't worth my time with you anyway.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

Yea yea, I admit that was a rather mean thing to say, but who comes on a general community forum with a highly specialized topic directed at a specific audience and then, when they don't agree with what someone said says "oh by the way this is just a forum for x so you wouldn't understand y"?

What you're really looking for are people who agree with you. Good luck with that here.


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Posted by Really?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:57 pm

Actually Stacey, you do this all the time. You take on a topic, speak as an expert, and when someone corrects you, it is taken personally by you.

This post had a point, a wide variety of people are responding with very civilized manners. You often have great insight and comments, but this time your need to be right took the conversation way off track. Your intolerance at being corrected is not new on these blogs- you hate being corrected and it shows.


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Posted by To Stacey
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:12 pm

So what have you contributed to the schools? Have you volunteered your time? Have you given money?


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:13 pm

Stacey is a registered user.

*yawn*


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Posted by Yo Rita
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:22 pm

They're talking about college. I haven't heard of too many parents volunteering their time in colleges.


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 8, 2009 at 8:23 am

Stacey is a registered user.

Really,

What was I supposedly being corrected over? If you think that I think I'm being corrected, you haven't actually read what I wrote carefully enough. Instead, what I see is both Inquiring Teacher and I agreeing, but we're both unable to communicate our ideas clearly to each other.

Here's some of what I wrote:
"...unless, of course, you made behavior a requirement of the paper..."
"...What wasn't written: The criteria assigned to the paper or the class...."
"A reader can only assume that X or Y is anything."

Inquiring Teacher wrote: "If you saw the syllabus on my campus, you would understand this, but since you aren't you have only a very limited view with which you cannot make blanket statements."

YES, EXACTLY! I had written: "2) My above supposition is based only upon what has been written. In no way did I suggest that behavior couldn't be part of the grading scheme or that it isn't."


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Posted by Stacey
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Oct 8, 2009 at 8:30 am

Stacey is a registered user.

So no, Really, it isn't "taking things personally". It's frustration at being unable to clearly communicate or feeling like what was written wasn't fully digested by the reader. Of course, I do it too sometimes, act mentally lazy and don't slow down enough to try to get into another person's head and really understand what they're trying to say.
===============
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:54 am
Stacey is a member (registered user) of Pleasanton Weekly

I'm uncertain as to if I'm really communicating what I'm trying to say on this subject well without the conversation devolving.


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Posted by Karen
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 8, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Well......I was probably one of the students that some teachers would like to have. I did my work quietly and cooperatively and was well behaved and earned good grades. I graduated with Honors from high school and college...but.... actually, I did all of it for MY OWN benefit because I had goals in mind and wanted to succeed. After reading one teacher's post here, I remembered some of my own teachers who were very rigid and fed up with students in general. Those were the classes that bored me the most and in which I learned the least and became divorced from the subject. Most people respond to teachers who have a passion for what they are teaching and who set just a few, very clear boundaries for behavior. My kids have attended Amador and I can think of several great teachers who made my kids come alive. Those teachers will be long remembered by our entire family and I don't think they had too many behavior issues in their classes. They seemed to like kids in general. Maybe that is the key.


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