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Obama's health care reform - 41% in favor

Original post made by JimF, another community, on Sep 28, 2009

A different question, a different poll, a dramatically different result. The majority may favor some sort of government health care when queried by the NY Times, but 56% oppose the current Obama led proposals.

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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 28, 2009 at 10:05 am

JimF, incredibly generic question. "Generally speaking, do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and the congressional Democrats?"

Now the question should be "Generally speaking, can you articulate the health reform plan being offered by the democrats?" When 90% of the respondents say no, start breaking it down, as the NY Times does.

or as NYTimes/CBS Poll asks "Would you favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government administered health insurance plan - something like the medicare coverage that people 65 and older get - that would compete with private insurance plans?" Favor = 65% and Oppose = 26% This is a much more specific question pointing out a specific piece of obama's plan and it shows 65% support. Interestingly, this shows in the same CBS/NYTimes poll that over 65% of Americans don't fully understand the plan Obama is putting forth.

Therefore, Rasmussen asking a ridiculously generic question that presupposes something that isn't accurate (that a majority of people can even articulate a plan they're supposedly against) and then claiming that as proof that people don't want health reform is both incredibly misleading, and more typical dishonesty from the right wing noise machine...

The way rasmussen's poll should work is as follows. First ask the respondent if they feel they understand the proposals being put forth by the democrats and obama. Of the people who respond yes, THEN ask them the generic question above. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.

And if you're truly curious, review the MUCH MORE DETAILED 100 question survey CBS/NYTimes put out versus the pathetically generice 5 question survey Rasmussen spits out...

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Back to the noise chamber, rinse, repeat....

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Posted by furthermore
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 28, 2009 at 10:21 am

Good post, JimF.

Furthermore, the reason Obama wants his "urgent national healthcare" to take effect in 2013 ... and not immediately is that he KNOWS the public will hate it and that it will cause huge chaos. If implemented immediately after any bill is passed, then Obama knows that this will eliminate his chances for a second term.

He also wants to be in office during a second term when chaos occurs...that is by design. Because "chaos" is his objective so that the public will then be dependent upon big government for an "urgent solution." He wants the citizens to have maximum dependency on him. That is how marxists operate. It is the Alinsky model.

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Posted by Parent of Two
a resident of Val Vista
on Sep 28, 2009 at 10:38 am

Parent of Two is a registered user.

Poster Boy,

How about adding a question for: If we implement the Obama plan, it will cost the US and its taxpayers over (insert Dr. Evil picture) $1 TRILLION DOLLARS. Whaddya think about it now?

I just thought of a solution... Why not have the government "take over" certain hospitals and put a percentage of doctors on the payroll and PROVIDE healthcare, rather than participate in some quasi-insurance program? I'm sure there are hospitals and doctors in low-income areas that would be willing to be "annexed" in order to guarantee a paycheck and services (rather than fight with insurance companies for every dime). The insurance companies wouldn't fight it because they'd be glad to be rid of the headache, and it would be cheaper than the trillion-dollar boondoggle that Obama is currently proposing. I just made up the whole thing, but it sounds reasonable...

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Posted by jimf01
a resident of another community
on Sep 28, 2009 at 10:44 am

jimf01 is a registered user.

Wait a minute, so the question "do you favor..the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and the congressional Democrat is MORE generic than asking "favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government administered health insurance plan - something like medicare"
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on that. I stated quite plainly upfront that it was a different question, different poll.
Everyone can read the NYT poll questions and decide if questions that give part of the answer in the question (a push polling technique) and then wind up all of those questions with the biggie, are you in favor of free gov't health care after all that discussion, people can decide if a certain percentage are pushed into the 65% group by the questions in the poll? Here is an example from the NYT poll you are so proud of PB:

#26 Do you think the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans, or isn't this the responsibility of the federal government?
#27 ASKED OF THOSE WHO ANSWERED "NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY" TO Q26: What if that meant that about 46 million people will continue to be without health insurance? Then do you think the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans, or not?

Everyone can decide for themselves if the Rasmussen poll is more a poll of people's understanding of the Obamacare offering, which is of course a result of either A) The Obama admins failure to articulate the plan, or B) the slanderous GOP and the racist, screaming townhall attendees, or C), people DO understand what the Dems are offering and don't want it?

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Posted by poster boy
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Sep 28, 2009 at 10:59 am

re: furthermore,
If Obama were pushing to have the plan take effect immediately, you'd be claiming he wants to put it in place right away before he gets voted out in 2012 and by then it'll be too difficult to repeal. But by waiting till 2013 to have most of it finally implemented (imagine having it take more than a few years to establish a government-run health insurance plan) you claim the opposite. Maybe arguing both sides of a point is also a marxist practice. *sigh*

Parent of Two, another thread in this forum goes into detail about how the 1 Trillion dollar costs are spread out over 10 years. Check it out for more details on that topic:

Web Link

As for having the government actually run hospitals and have doctors become employees of the government...that's how it's run in England and if you think the wingnuts have a problem with the government just providing an insurance plan, imagine how they'll react to the government actually becoming a healthcare provider...but if you truly think the plan obama is offering is a boondoggle and this is a better option, then good luck getting it passed. Read that thread and then tell me if you still think the current plan is a waste.

Jimf01, clearly the NYTimes question is less generic. It points out a specific piece of obama's proposal (ie, the government providing a low-cost insurance plan to compete with private insurers) and asks if people support it. That's much different than asking if people support the overall plan, "generally speaking". If you can't see that, then we're back at arguing whether the earth is flat. Interestingly, the NYTimes/CBS poll actually does ask if people understand the proposals being put forth and over 70% responded no. It'd be nice if Rasmussen asked the same instead of assuming the answer is yes for most people...

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